Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

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togepi
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby togepi » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:52 am

ariadne328 wrote:
Xs20 wrote:Thanks for all your advice, manofjustice. Really appreciate it!

Yes! Thanks!

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby bernaldiaz » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:59 am

Has anyone had success negotiating with HYS as someone who would typically not qualify for need based aid because of their parents income? I've read the last couple pages and seen that MOJ seems to think that need based could be negotiable, which gives me hope. Also, I've been thinking of doing the exact opposite of the stall technique, saying something along the lines of this is where I know I want to be and I would sign the papers tomorrow if not for the prohibitive costs. Does anyone think there is merit in that strategy? Would they be more likely to make you a serious offer if you raise the stakes for them?

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Greyhound42
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Greyhound42 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:33 pm

manofjustice wrote:helpful advice

Thank you so much for the advice. I haven't seen such an aggressive outlook elsewhere in the thread, but I can see the rationalization behind it.
Question: What about splitters in this case? It makes sense that generally your value goes up to a school if your stats are above median, but what if my GPA is below the 25th and my LSAT is above the school's 75th? Would stalling be an unwise risk?... I could wait a long time while the school satisfies their LSAT needs and no longer wants me, right?

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francesfarmer
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby francesfarmer » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:00 pm

Greyhound42 wrote:
manofjustice wrote:helpful advice

Thank you so much for the advice. I haven't seen such an aggressive outlook elsewhere in the thread, but I can see the rationalization behind it.
Question: What about splitters in this case? It makes sense that generally your value goes up to a school if your stats are above median, but what if my GPA is below the 25th and my LSAT is above the school's 75th? Would stalling be an unwise risk?... I could wait a long time while the school satisfies their LSAT needs and no longer wants me, right?

+1 to this question

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Greyhound42
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Greyhound42 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:07 pm

I've already had success negotiating with some schools, and have had lukewarm responses from others.

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manofjustice
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby manofjustice » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:27 pm

you'rethemannowdawg wrote:Am I to conclude that an applicant will not lose his/her seat at a T14 if he/she simply ignores the seat deposit deadline? As a splitter, the idea of ignoring the deadline at a place like NYU or Penn makes me uncomfortable.


No.

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manofjustice
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby manofjustice » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:45 pm

francesfarmer wrote:
Greyhound42 wrote:
manofjustice wrote:helpful advice

Thank you so much for the advice. I haven't seen such an aggressive outlook elsewhere in the thread, but I can see the rationalization behind it.
Question: What about splitters in this case? It makes sense that generally your value goes up to a school if your stats are above median, but what if my GPA is below the 25th and my LSAT is above the school's 75th? Would stalling be an unwise risk?... I could wait a long time while the school satisfies their LSAT needs and no longer wants me, right?

+1 to this question


You're good. One of the guys I know who did great getting money from the T14 last year was a splitter with a really bad GPA. (And this cycle should be more friendly to applicants than the last.)

The go-to in declining cycles is the "splitter-filler" model: pick the most important median (usually the LSAT median) and defend it at the expensive of the other, and as soon as you've filled up the class with just as many people as you need to defend your median, bring on as many below-both-median applicants as you can to pad tuition revenue (as those applicants are less likely to demand much money and will just be happy that they're admitted.)

In fact, it could be argued that you'd rather be a splitter than someone right at both of the prior cycle's medians.

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manofjustice
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby manofjustice » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:35 am

bernaldiaz wrote:Has anyone had success negotiating with HYS as someone who would typically not qualify for need based aid because of their parents income? I've read the last couple pages and seen that MOJ seems to think that need based could be negotiable, which gives me hope. Also, I've been thinking of doing the exact opposite of the stall technique, saying something along the lines of this is where I know I want to be and I would sign the papers tomorrow if not for the prohibitive costs. Does anyone
think there is merit in that strategy? Would they be more likely to make you a serious offer if you raise the stakes for them?


To the first bolded: there is no such thing as "merit" and "need"--no actual distinction beyond a made-up name--except at a handful of schools. But even at those schools the financial aid office does what the dean of admissions says.

All there is is supply and demand.

To the second bolded: that is exactly what you should do. As spelled out above, you don't EVER want to blame your reluctance on the school itself. You need to convince the school that there is a payoff to its giving you money, namely that you will attend. But what we mean by "stalling" is putting off the time at which you say, just as you say, "I would sign the papers tomorrow if not for the prohibitive costs." The time to send that email or make that call is not the day you get admitted.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby bernaldiaz » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:37 am

manofjustice wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote:Has anyone had success negotiating with HYS as someone who would typically not qualify for need based aid because of their parents income? I've read the last couple pages and seen that MOJ seems to think that need based could be negotiable, which gives me hope. Also, I've been thinking of doing the exact opposite of the stall technique, saying something along the lines of this is where I know I want to be and I would sign the papers tomorrow if not for the prohibitive costs. Does anyone
think there is merit in that strategy? Would they be more likely to make you a serious offer if you raise the stakes for them?


To the first bolded: there is no such thing as "merit" and "need"--no actual distinction beyond a made-up name--except at a handful of schools. But even at those schools the financial aid office does what the dean of admissions says.

All there is is supply and demand.

To the second bolded: that is exactly what you should do. As spelled out above, you don't EVER want to blame your reluctance on the school itself. You need to convince the school that there is a payoff to its giving you money, namely that you will attend. But what we mean by "stalling" is putting off the time at which you say, just as you say, "I would sign the papers tomorrow if not for the prohibitive costs." The time to send that email or make that call is not the day you get admitted.


Thanks man. You give me a lot of hope. Very helpful.

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crazyducky924
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby crazyducky924 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:12 am

Ok so I recently got accepted to University of Louisville which is a hometown option for me. However, I did not receive any scholarship offers. How should I negotiate a scholarship when I would already get tuition at a very low in-state rate? I have received scholarship offers from other school that I much higher ranked but have much higher tuition rates as well. Any advice?

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manofjustice
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby manofjustice » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:55 pm

crazyducky924 wrote:Ok so I recently got accepted to University of Louisville which is a hometown option for me. However, I did not receive any scholarship offers. How should I negotiate a scholarship when I would already get tuition at a very low in-state rate? I have received scholarship offers from other school that I much higher ranked but have much higher tuition rates as well. Any advice?


The hometown school banks on your being too scared to move away. You want to stress your willingness to move and the U of Ls employment prospects--both the hiring rate and the salary rate, in light of the reporting percentages--vis-a-vis its tuition. Doing that, you might find that low tuition is still low value.

But aside from that, state schools can be tough.

It's important not to get discouraged by "nos."

There are a slew of factors that determine a school's willingness to give you what you want and you simply are not aware of those factors, so you can't really have a sense of your probability of success, with respect to any one school. But, you can be sure that you'll be successful with at least some.


Unknown factors include:

a) Their median targets vis-a-vis your numbers.
b) Their target class size.

Both a) and b) are determined by the school's relationship with its parent university, if any (and so the parent university's financial imperatives) and by the school's faculty. Governing matters include faculty and staff hiring and attrition plans and teaching loads. Legal matters concerning faculty contracts come into play. And on and on...

State schools are additionally impacted by state budgets and budgetary conditions.

c) How lucky the school has been in the cycle so far.

c) is impacted by a) and b) of every other school.

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ashockofpink
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby ashockofpink » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:59 pm

Truth:

I got offered $20,000/year at UCLA. I told them I got two full rides, $40k from George Washington, and compared the cost of living to that of NY. I explained that I most likely wasn't eligible for need based aid since my parents list me as a dependent and that merit aid is a major determining factor. I sent this e-mail yesterday.

Today they upped it to $30,000/year and I'm flipping out right now. Just address the schools with respect and stress that you are extremely interested in them (and grateful for whatever they had previous offered) and you stand a decent chance.

:D :D :D

divster
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby divster » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:46 pm

manofjustice wrote:
To the first bolded: there is no such thing as "merit" and "need"--no actual distinction beyond a made-up name--except at a handful of schools. But even at those schools the financial aid office does what the dean of admissions says.




There is talk over on the Columbia thread that they don't give any merit aid after the offer you are given at the time of admittance. They do accept requests for "need-based aid" though. Does anyone have CLS specific knowledge about this? Is there just one pool of money for them but they refuse to give it out as "merit-based-aid"?

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manofjustice
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby manofjustice » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:07 pm

divster wrote:
manofjustice wrote:
To the first bolded: there is no such thing as "merit" and "need"--no actual distinction beyond a made-up name--except at a handful of schools. But even at those schools the financial aid office does what the dean of admissions says.




There is talk over on the Columbia thread that they don't give any merit aid after the offer you are given at the time of admittance. They do accept requests for "need-based aid" though. Does anyone have CLS specific knowledge about this? Is there just one pool of money for them but they refuse to give it out as "merit-based-aid"?


Read my posts above and stop using the terms "need-based" and "merit-based."

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manofjustice
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby manofjustice » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:07 pm

ashockofpink wrote:Truth:

I got offered $20,000/year at UCLA. I told them I got two full rides, $40k from George Washington, and compared the cost of living to that of NY. I explained that I most likely wasn't eligible for need based aid since my parents list me as a dependent and that merit aid is a major determining factor. I sent this e-mail yesterday.

Today they upped it to $30,000/year and I'm flipping out right now. Just address the schools with respect and stress that you are extremely interested in them (and grateful for whatever they had previous offered) and you stand a decent chance.

:D :D :D


Congrats. What were your numbers?

wisteria
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby wisteria » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:11 pm

manofjustice wrote:
divster wrote:
manofjustice wrote:
To the first bolded: there is no such thing as "merit" and "need"--no actual distinction beyond a made-up name--except at a handful of schools. But even at those schools the financial aid office does what the dean of admissions says.




There is talk over on the Columbia thread that they don't give any merit aid after the offer you are given at the time of admittance. They do accept requests for "need-based aid" though. Does anyone have CLS specific knowledge about this? Is there just one pool of money for them but they refuse to give it out as "merit-based-aid"?


Read my posts above and stop using the terms "need-based" and "merit-based."


haha, I feel like I was the one who irked you with my "need-based" and "merit-based" post right before you exploded with all these valuable wisdom. :oops: Thank you so much for sharing with us!

divster
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby divster » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:24 pm

wisteria wrote:
manofjustice wrote:
divster wrote:
manofjustice wrote:
To the first bolded: there is no such thing as "merit" and "need"--no actual distinction beyond a made-up name--except at a handful of schools. But even at those schools the financial aid office does what the dean of admissions says.




There is talk over on the Columbia thread that they don't give any merit aid after the offer you are given at the time of admittance. They do accept requests for "need-based aid" though. Does anyone have CLS specific knowledge about this? Is there just one pool of money for them but they refuse to give it out as "merit-based-aid"?


Read my posts above and stop using the terms "need-based" and "merit-based."


haha, I feel like I was the one who irked you with my "need-based" and "merit-based" post right before you exploded with all these valuable wisdom. :oops: Thank you so much for sharing with us!


I guess what I meant was, is CLS one of those handful of schools that does make a distinction and thus would not be worth negotiating with.

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ashockofpink
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby ashockofpink » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:38 pm

manofjustice wrote:
ashockofpink wrote:Truth:

I got offered $20,000/year at UCLA. I told them I got two full rides, $40k from George Washington, and compared the cost of living to that of NY. I explained that I most likely wasn't eligible for need based aid since my parents list me as a dependent and that merit aid is a major determining factor. I sent this e-mail yesterday.

Today they upped it to $30,000/year and I'm flipping out right now. Just address the schools with respect and stress that you are extremely interested in them (and grateful for whatever they had previous offered) and you stand a decent chance.

:D :D :D


Congrats. What were your numbers?


3.72 (now 3.76 with my updated transcript)/168. I can't even formulate a "thank you" e-mail clearly enough right now, my brain is still freaking out over it haha I'm so happy. I was truly flabbergasted.

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manofjustice
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby manofjustice » Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:33 pm

ashockofpink wrote:
manofjustice wrote:
ashockofpink wrote:Truth:

I got offered $20,000/year at UCLA. I told them I got two full rides, $40k from George Washington, and compared the cost of living to that of NY. I explained that I most likely wasn't eligible for need based aid since my parents list me as a dependent and that merit aid is a major determining factor. I sent this e-mail yesterday.

Today they upped it to $30,000/year and I'm flipping out right now. Just address the schools with respect and stress that you are extremely interested in them (and grateful for whatever they had previous offered) and you stand a decent chance.

:D :D :D


Congrats. What were your numbers?


3.72 (now 3.76 with my updated transcript)/168. I can't even formulate a "thank you" e-mail clearly enough right now, my brain is still freaking out over it haha I'm so happy. I was truly flabbergasted.


Ask UCLA to match GW.

JS281
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby JS281 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:11 pm

This is my first time coming into this thread and I'm sure this has been asked before but for the sake of me not going through the entire thread...


What do I do when I've been accepted to one school so far and I'm waiting on the others? As of right now do I have any leverage negotiating with that one school?


Any tips would be greatly appreciated

Username123
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Username123 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:29 pm

Manofjustice.... You da man.

I'm going to take your advice and send out these negotiation emails in a couple months. Thanks a lot! I'm thinking of sending the first negotiation emails out about a week before the first deadline and then call the schools by phone a day or so later to see if they've received my email. I really hope it works! Thanks so much. I hope some of my 75%+ scholarships turn into full rides.

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Teflon_Don
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Teflon_Don » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:37 pm

Is 105k at UVA or 60-75k at Chicago/NYU better to approach Berkeley with??

aqbi
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby aqbi » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:46 pm

so my question is about approaching a school to increase scholarship the SECOND time.

I asked a lower ranked school to match a higher ranked schools' offer and they only increased by 3K which made the total scholarship amount exactly half of the higher ranked schools'.

How do i respond? This school is really my first choice.

Do i email back saying thanks but no thanks and wait it out, in hope that the school will contact me once the seat deposit deadline approaches?

or should I call and be aggressive and schedule a meeting w/ the dean (at ASW)??

Thanks!

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manofjustice
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby manofjustice » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:52 pm

aqbi wrote:so my question is about approaching a school to increase scholarship the SECOND time.


And a third. And a fourth. It's all good.

Just be sure to forward proof of the other schools' offers so the target school doesn't think you are making up offers.

champs03
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby champs03 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:21 pm

Couple of questions for you guys,

When negotiating scholarships, should you include the offers from other schools in your first correspondence?

Also, should you include all offers you have received even if it is from an inferior school? And should you address that yes you know it is an inferior school but any help they can give would be great?

Thanks for the help!




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