Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

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yenisey
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby yenisey » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:34 am

thickfreakness wrote:
kt625 wrote:hey, new question on the same topic... for those of you who have been successful in negotiating scholarships, have the scholarships come with any stipulations? i'm particularly worried about schools making you withdraw all other applications if they give you a scholarship.

does anyone know if schools do this and if so, which schools?


IMO that's good bargaining on the law school's part. It's poor form to negotiate a scholarship offer up unless the school is in hot contention for your seat deposit. Trying to leverage a full ride out of a lower T1 safety when you're in at a T14 with some money already seems kind of ridiculous.


I leveraged a full ride of Penn State at UC Hastings. Kind of ridiculous?

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Nachoo2019
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Nachoo2019 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:46 am

yenisey wrote:
thickfreakness wrote:
kt625 wrote:hey, new question on the same topic... for those of you who have been successful in negotiating scholarships, have the scholarships come with any stipulations? i'm particularly worried about schools making you withdraw all other applications if they give you a scholarship.

does anyone know if schools do this and if so, which schools?


IMO that's good bargaining on the law school's part. It's poor form to negotiate a scholarship offer up unless the school is in hot contention for your seat deposit. Trying to leverage a full ride out of a lower T1 safety when you're in at a T14 with some money already seems kind of ridiculous.


I leveraged a full ride of Penn State at UC Hastings. Kind of ridiculous?


That is insane! I got a flat out reject to Hastings and a full ride to Penn State....

yenisey
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby yenisey » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:56 am

kwabedi wrote:
yenisey wrote:
thickfreakness wrote:
kt625 wrote:hey, new question on the same topic... for those of you who have been successful in negotiating scholarships, have the scholarships come with any stipulations? i'm particularly worried about schools making you withdraw all other applications if they give you a scholarship.

does anyone know if schools do this and if so, which schools?


IMO that's good bargaining on the law school's part. It's poor form to negotiate a scholarship offer up unless the school is in hot contention for your seat deposit. Trying to leverage a full ride out of a lower T1 safety when you're in at a T14 with some money already seems kind of ridiculous.


I leveraged a full ride of Penn State at UC Hastings. Kind of ridiculous?


That is insane! I got a flat out reject to Hastings and a full ride to Penn State....


? Hastings is so better than Penn State? I thought they are peers.

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jlaw20161
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby jlaw20161 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:52 am

Does anyone think I'll be able to use a full ride to UICL to negotiate with GW?

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bnssweeney
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby bnssweeney » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:58 am

gamerish wrote:Wrote a kind of Why X/scholly negotiation letter today I was hoping someone could take a look at and tell me if I'm not being forward enough with my desire to get more money lol. If anyone's up for it, I can send it via PM


If it's not too late, I'll take a look as well. I'm about to write a letter, and I was wondering if you'd like to take a look at mine, too.

LMD
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby LMD » Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:51 pm

Here's the answer to every question involving "should I present the total cost of the school" or "should I try to leverage an offer from this school with this school?"

The answer is yes. Use some judgment, don't bring a Cooley half scholarship to Columbia. But if your request could be considered even close to reasonable, just send it off. The very worst that happens is they say no. Now, if you suspect you will have better offers coming in, then you can wait. But if you don't, send off whatever weak leverage you have and hope for the best.

There are a bunch of variables in play on their end that you have no control over at this point. But even if you send them something that you think, well, maybe there's a 10% chance they give me an extra 2k for this seemingly not well-leveraged request, you just made $200 for sending off that e-mail. It is of absolutely no cost or consequence to you.

Make the best case you can make for why they should give you more money, send it, and don't think about it again until they respond.

This isn't even like negotiating a higher salary at a new job (which, generally, you should do, although of course there are exceptions like a firm that has standardized salaries for new employees). In job negotiations, there is some risk that you will ask something ridiculous and piss your employer off. In law school admissions, there is NO RISK. They might laugh at you, but it will mean absolutely nothing. It's like asking a girl out, as long as you don't get your ego in knots every time you get rejected, there is no risk, only good things can happen.

gazorpazorp
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby gazorpazorp » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:35 pm

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Last edited by gazorpazorp on Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

eastcoastisflat
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby eastcoastisflat » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:20 pm

Is anyone negotiating aid with BU?

I sent them a higher offer that I had received from BC and they said they would add it to my file...

I guess I'm just wondering when I can expect to hear whether they'll increase my initial offer.

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skimmilk
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby skimmilk » Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:10 pm

gazorpazorp wrote:Does anyone have experience with negotiating a cost-of-living stipend? I've been offered a Dean's Fellowship at WUSTL but probably won't seriously consider attending unless I'm guaranteed virtually zero debt.

Also -- I know the generally-approved response is to "put all your cards on the table," but is there any case where putting all your cards on the table (at least in your first negotiation attempt with said school) might be detrimental?

Like, say I got accepted into...

1. WUSTL with a full ride
2. USC/GW with significant $$
3. Michigan and GULC with less-significant $
4. UVA, NYU with no money

And say I want to negotiate a full ride with GULC, but they're known for being stingy with merit aid. My general narrative in my email to them is that I want to be on the East Coast, and I want to be in DC specifically (which is actually true - though I won't shed a tear if Michigan offers more $ and I end up there instead).

Is there any way that mentioning my NYU, Michigan, USC acceptances/scholarships could hurt my case for more aid? As in, might GULC be reluctant to allocate more $$ to an applicant that seems to have better options, and who clearly is rather flexible about his geographic placement -- when they could allocate that $$ to another applicant that is more likely to attend?


I recently responded to GULC's scholly email by mentioning the COA+COL at higher ranked schools (I did this because GULC will be more expensive). I have no idea if this will work of course as I am still waiting to hear back, but I made sure to let them know that at this point my decision will be based on where I can receive the most affordable education. I am hoping that by addressing costs, I am letting them know that I will attend given the right price, regardless of the rankings of another school. Overall, if you are seeking out more aid, I think in general you should focus on costs and demonstrate a genuine desire to attend their school. The whole point of having better options is that you can use them to get more merit aid at lower ranked schools. Also, I would avoid mentioning your flexibility with geographic placement. Just say you would love to be in DC given the opportunities the area presents, but the COL is much higher than other places so you will need financial assistance to offset the cost.

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fliptrip
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby fliptrip » Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:14 pm

skimmilk wrote:
gazorpazorp wrote:Does anyone have experience with negotiating a cost-of-living stipend? I've been offered a Dean's Fellowship at WUSTL but probably won't seriously consider attending unless I'm guaranteed virtually zero debt.

Also -- I know the generally-approved response is to "put all your cards on the table," but is there any case where putting all your cards on the table (at least in your first negotiation attempt with said school) might be detrimental?

Like, say I got accepted into...

1. WUSTL with a full ride
2. USC/GW with significant $$
3. Michigan and GULC with less-significant $
4. UVA, NYU with no money

And say I want to negotiate a full ride with GULC, but they're known for being stingy with merit aid. My general narrative in my email to them is that I want to be on the East Coast, and I want to be in DC specifically (which is actually true - though I won't shed a tear if Michigan offers more $ and I end up there instead).

Is there any way that mentioning my NYU, Michigan, USC acceptances/scholarships could hurt my case for more aid? As in, might GULC be reluctant to allocate more $$ to an applicant that seems to have better options, and who clearly is rather flexible about his geographic placement -- when they could allocate that $$ to another applicant that is more likely to attend?


I recently responded to GULC's scholly email by mentioning the COA+COL at higher ranked schools (I did this because GULC will be more expensive). I have no idea if this will work of course as I am still waiting to hear back, but I made sure to let them know that at this point my decision will be based on where I can receive the most affordable education. I am hoping that by addressing costs, I am letting them know that I will attend given the right price, regardless of the rankings of another school. Overall, if you are seeking out more aid, I think in general you should focus on costs and demonstrate a genuine desire to attend their school. The whole point of having better options is that you can use them to get more merit aid at lower ranked schools. Also, I would avoid mentioning your flexibility with geographic placement. Just say you would love to be in DC given the opportunities the area presents, but the COL is much higher than other places so you will need financial assistance to offset the cost.


This is SO the right advice. Your pitch has to be that GULC is where you want to be and you want their help to make it happen. Then the offer that you show them is to let them know your best alternative in order to help them see how far they have to go to make it happen.

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Harry_Pluxen
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Harry_Pluxen » Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:48 pm

Lets say that school A is my first choice, school B is my second choice. I have been admitted with $ at both schools; I have more $ at school B. Is it a good idea to ask school B for more $ so that I can e-mail school A with a better offer for leverage? I feel duplicitous thinking about this...

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fliptrip
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby fliptrip » Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:50 pm

Harry_Pluxen wrote:Lets say that school A is my first choice, school B is my second choice. I have been admitted with $ at both schools; I have more $ at school B. Is it a good idea to ask school B for more $ so that I can e-mail school A with a better offer for leverage? I feel duplicitous thinking about this...


This is very common. I would not think twice about it.

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stig2014
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby stig2014 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:06 pm

Hoping someone could help me out with the process of negotiating scholarships. Particularly what order I should go about contacting schools.

I've been offered:
-75k at Notre Dame
-75k at George Washington
-120k at Wash U,
-in at Michigan and UVA, and haven't heard about scholarships from them yet.

I'm a pretty big splitter, so I've come to terms with not getting a lot of fin. aid, but if I were able to get some sort of merit aid from Virginia, or to a lesser extent Michigan, that would help me a lot with my decision. Thanks in advance.

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fliptrip
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby fliptrip » Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:43 pm

stig2014 wrote:Hoping someone could help me out with the process of negotiating scholarships. Particularly what order I should go about contacting schools.

I've been offered:
-75k at Notre Dame
-75k at George Washington
-120k at Wash U,
-in at Michigan and UVA, and haven't heard about scholarships from them yet.

I'm a pretty big splitter, so I've come to terms with not getting a lot of fin. aid, but if I were able to get some sort of merit aid from Virginia, or to a lesser extent Michigan, that would help me a lot with my decision. Thanks in advance.


Just a fellow 0L's opinon here, but I have received 3 full-tuition T14 scholarships and negotiated two of them. Don't have the best sense of how exactly UVA and Michigan would look at the schools you've listed other than to feel pretty certain that they won't be the strongest motivation for them to move. That's not to say that they would not move.

I personally think you should approach a school only once for negotiations, so I'd decide between Michigan and UVA which one I wanted most to attend and set it aside for the moment. Then, here's what I'd do:

Tell Wash U about your UVA/Michigan acceptance and try to get them to go to full-tuition.

If you succeed there, take your offer back to your least preferred of UVA/Mich and see what they do. If they bite, take that offer to your top choice and see what they do. If they don't bite, just take the Wash U offer to your top choice and see what they do.

If you don't succeed with getting Wash U. up, just take the $120k and run it through the process I just described.

I wouldn't get my hopes up too too high for big money, but maybe you can negotiate a non-negligible discount out of them.

Good luck!

87mm
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby 87mm » Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:51 pm

This has been a strange cycle compared to what I expected.

BU: 75K
BC: 105K
UCI: 75K
USC: 90K
Emory: 111K
GWU: 90K

Waiting to hear from UCLA $$$ (hopefully)
Never received information from WUSTL after my phone screening....
IN a NWU.

Not sure where to begin here. The most attractive schools atm are UCLA and USC, followed closely by Emory, NWU, and BU.

Should I use Emory and BC to increase BU. Then take those and try to go to UCI for a near full ride? That may hopefully give me an extra edge when contacting USC/UCLA?

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fliptrip
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby fliptrip » Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:55 pm

^^ Here's what I'd do:

Try to use Emory to move USC then use an increased USC to move UCLA. USC and UCLA have what off the top of my head is the tightest leverage relationship that I can think of. You are damn credible if you tell UCLA that if they don't deal you're going to USC. A UCLA person might throw their hands up, but honestly, they aren't so far apart in the structure of things that you're ruining your life if you pass up on UCLA for SC.

Happy to be corrected, but I don't see UCI even at full moving USC or UCLA much.

crystallize
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby crystallize » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:01 pm

fliptrip wrote:^^ Here's what I'd do:

Try to use Emory to move USC then use an increased USC to move UCLA. USC and UCLA have what off the top of my head is the tightest leverage relationship that I can think of. You are damn credible if you tell UCLA that if they don't deal you're going to USC. A UCLA person might throw their hands up, but honestly, they aren't so far apart in the structure of things that you're ruining your life if you pass up on UCLA for SC.

Happy to be corrected, but I don't see UCI even at full moving USC or UCLA much.


This is just anecdotal but I know someone a few years back who leveraged a full ride at UCI to a full ride at UCLA. She had $0 from UCLA originally and even withdrew from them before they came back matching the full ride. Since UCI was not ranked at the time, it might have been easier to accomplish something like this.

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fliptrip
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby fliptrip » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:07 pm

^^wow! If they had that much leverage when they weren't even ranked, I would imagine there's more now.

87mm
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby 87mm » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:38 pm

fliptrip wrote:^^ Here's what I'd do:

Try to use Emory to move USC then use an increased USC to move UCLA. USC and UCLA have what off the top of my head is the tightest leverage relationship that I can think of. You are damn credible if you tell UCLA that if they don't deal you're going to USC. A UCLA person might throw their hands up, but honestly, they aren't so far apart in the structure of things that you're ruining your life if you pass up on UCLA for SC.

Happy to be corrected, but I don't see UCI even at full moving USC or UCLA much.



Thanks for the advice. Coincidentally I just received notice that I also got 60K from UCLA. Hopefully after all this I can get closer to 75% instead of a 50% ride.

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fliptrip
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby fliptrip » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:42 pm

^^I see that as a good sign. They already are in a buying mood when it comes to you, you just gotta nudge them a little.

I am far less certain about this, but maybe you try the $60k from UCLA and see if that moves USC at all? Then if USC comes up, take that back to UCLA...

Also, never forget your COL in your calculations. I doubt $60k is going to be 1/2 your total COA.

87mm
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby 87mm » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:28 pm

fliptrip wrote:^^I see that as a good sign. They already are in a buying mood when it comes to you, you just gotta nudge them a little.

I am far less certain about this, but maybe you try the $60k from UCLA and see if that moves USC at all? Then if USC comes up, take that back to UCLA...

Also, never forget your COL in your calculations. I doubt $60k is going to be 1/2 your total COA.


Thanks for the encouragement and advice. I am somewhat banking on a 1L position to help alleviate CoL during my 2L year (plan to take patent bar before starting 1L). I have enough in savings to mostly mitigate CoL during 1L. I dont want parental support but I do have it in a pinch :\

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lakers3
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby lakers3 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:33 pm

If I am trying to negotiate between schools that gave roughly the same scholarship offer but COA is significantly different, should I spell out the difference in COA with the specific number? For example, should I tell school A that school B's COA is only $XX,XXX with the scholarship offer, or should I just say that COA is less generally and not offer specifics? I will be attaching the offer to the email as well. I just don't want to seem like I am demanding something by listing the exact COA of the other school.

poptart123
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby poptart123 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:53 pm

lakers3 wrote:If I am trying to negotiate between schools that gave roughly the same scholarship offer but COA is significantly different, should I spell out the difference in COA with the specific number? For example, should I tell school A that school B's COA is only $XX,XXX with the scholarship offer, or should I just say that COA is less generally and not offer specifics? I will be attaching the offer to the email as well. I just don't want to seem like I am demanding something by listing the exact COA of the other school.


I am also wondering this, but I would suspect it depends on how big the difference is. Schools like SMU and Pepperdine have huge COLs and a specific number will probably demonstrate a 10K difference in those cases.

UDtoLawSchool
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby UDtoLawSchool » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:33 pm

lakers3 wrote:If I am trying to negotiate between schools that gave roughly the same scholarship offer but COA is significantly different, should I spell out the difference in COA with the specific number? For example, should I tell school A that school B's COA is only $XX,XXX with the scholarship offer, or should I just say that COA is less generally and not offer specifics? I will be attaching the offer to the email as well. I just don't want to seem like I am demanding something by listing the exact COA of the other school.


I am doing this now between Brooklyn and Cardozo. Brooklyn is almost 10K/year cheaper and gave me a slightly higher scholarship offer so I told Cardozo the total amount of additional debt I would be taking on by attending Cardozo

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Harry_Pluxen
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Harry_Pluxen » Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:20 pm

Anyone think it is appropriate to mention that your country's currency is weak compared to the US dollar when sending a scholarship negotiation e-mail? I am from Canada, and 1$ CDN = $0.68 US.




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