Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

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ilikebaseball
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby ilikebaseball » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:42 pm

just sent my first negotiation request...nervous

secadc11
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby secadc11 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:42 pm

What's the source on this May 15th date?

supersplittysplitter
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby supersplittysplitter » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:43 pm

when I read the USC stipulations I got the sense that even if you withdraw prior to May 15th, if you were double deposited at any point prior to May 15th your name would still show up on the overlap report, and you would still be fucked.

Username123
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Username123 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:54 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
Uschoolqb10 wrote:In Notre Dame's scholarship letter, it was basically written out "if you double deposit, f*** you."


When is their first deposit due?


I think April 15th. Not in front of my life right now.

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Dipper
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Dipper » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:00 pm

secadc11 wrote:What's the source on this May 15th date?


LSAC wrote:After April 1, except under binding early decision plans, every applicant should be free to accept a new offer from a law school even though a scholarship has been accepted, a deposit has been paid, or a commitment has been made to another school. To provide applicants with an uncoerced choice among various law schools, no excessive nonrefundable deposit should be required solely to maintain a place in the class. Beginning on May 15 of each year, law schools that participate in the Commitment Overlap Service will be provided with information concerning all enrollment commitments to any law school made by those applicants who have indicated an intention to enroll in that school’s entering class. A law school should clearly communicate its policies on multiple enrollment commitments upon admission.


#6 under "Application Procedures" http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/publications-%28lsac-resources%29/statementofgoodadm.pdf

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Skool
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Skool » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:08 pm

supersplittysplitter wrote:when I read the USC stipulations I got the sense that even if you withdraw prior to May 15th, if you were double deposited at any point prior to May 15th your name would still show up on the overlap report, and you would still be fucked.
But keep in mind, they gave you scholarship money for a reason. You're valuable, they want you. And if they get rid of you, what's the alternative? They leave your seat unfilled? Then they lose the partial tuition revenue you would have paid, and if their margins for maintaining medians aren't too wide, they shoot themselves in the foot too.

Alternatively, they replace you with someone else, but then they'd likely be stuck negotiating with someone else with comparable gpa/lsat. And then they might end up paying the same money (or more) anyway.

There are risks to them too in going nuclear.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:19 pm

hereisonehand wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
I hate to sound like I am living in the movie Battlefield Earth but you really lose leverage if you only deposit at one school, which the law schools see in their commitment overlap reports. There are no guarantee, of course, and you may cost yourself an extra deposit or two but if I were negotiating for scholarship money I would multi-deposit.


Spivey has spoken losers.


Spivey is probably right but it's worth getting clear in advance on which schools are going to be a stinker about it


I'm very interested in this slightly new and more absolute wording and would be interested in the list of the exact schools that say, "if we see you multi-deposited bye bye scholarship" ....however if they do this before April 1 they are violating the LSAC guidelines, although I guess they won't be doing before April because no school can ask for a deposit until then

The clear way around this is to negotiate like crazy in March.
Last edited by MikeSpivey on Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:23 pm

Skool wrote:
supersplittysplitter wrote:when I read the USC stipulations I got the sense that even if you withdraw prior to May 15th, if you were double deposited at any point prior to May 15th your name would still show up on the overlap report, and you would still be fucked.
But keep in mind, they gave you scholarship money for a reason. You're valuable, they want you. And if they get rid of you, what's the alternative? They leave your seat unfilled? Then they lose the partial tuition revenue you would have paid, and if their margins for maintaining medians aren't too wide, they shoot themselves in the foot too.

Alternatively, they replace you with someone else, but then they'd likely be stuck negotiating with someone else with comparable gpa/lsat. And then they might end up paying the same money (or more) anyway.

There are risks to them too in going nuclear.


Yep. I just answered a similar question in my Q&A thread. I'm not sure how to copy and paste that here with the quotes and everything but feel free to do so. Basically, schools try to get a hold of this scholarship negotiation a bit more each year, but the leverage is still more weighted in favor of you, the applicant.

AZ123
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby AZ123 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:44 pm

After receiving a scholarship offer from a school, what is an appropriate amount of time to wait before trying to negotiate that offer? I don't want to appear greedy or ungrateful. Is a week too soon?

Law1491
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Law1491 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:04 pm

How long should the negotiation letter be? Is one page too long? Is it placed in the body of the email or as an attachment? Should it be sent to the dean of admissions or the financial office?

Thank you

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tealeaves12
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby tealeaves12 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:33 pm

AZ123 wrote:After receiving a scholarship offer from a school, what is an appropriate amount of time to wait before trying to negotiate that offer? I don't want to appear greedy or ungrateful. Is a week too soon?


I'm not an expert but based on what I have read about scholarship negotiation in general, I would try as hard as possible to shake the mentality that you may appear greedy or ungrateful. Dont worry about their feelings/perceptions of you. I mean be pleasant of course but these offices understand and expect negotiation to occur. A week seems fine. And since it's often recommended to speak directly to admissions (as opposed to financial aid) about this it's unlikely they'll be immediately aware of exactly when you specifically were sent your offer anyway.

Good luck

hearsay77
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby hearsay77 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:10 am

Law1491 wrote:How long should the negotiation letter be? Is one page too long? Is it placed in the body of the email or as an attachment? Should it be sent to the dean of admissions or the financial office?

Thank you


I think one page is good, thats how long mine were (have not been successful so far, but I just started a couple of days ago). I put mine in the body of the email, but I think either way works. As far as who to send to, I would check your initial scholarship offer (if you got one) as well as the school's financial aid site and see if there is someone they specify to send requests to and if you don't find anyone then I'd suggest the dean of admissions, since the admissions office is the one thats working on recruiting you. If necessary they will forward it to financial aid anyways.

rae_mal
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby rae_mal » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:44 pm

What are thoughts on negotiating with NYU? I applied for merit aid and was told they wouldn't be able to offer me any. I know for a fact I won't qualify for needs-based. Should I take that no as the final word, or would negotiations still be possible?

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Skool
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Skool » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:47 pm

I would think you'll need some leverage before giving it another go, no?

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Hand
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Hand » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:59 pm

Skool wrote:I would think you'll need some leverage before giving it another go, no?


Leverage certainly helps of course, but even without it, it would be worth asking for something, on grounds of making it financially feasible to attend, etc. The worst they can do is say no.

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Dipper
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Dipper » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:05 pm

Anyone have experienced negotiating up a full tuition scholly to include living stipend stuff? I have full tuition at Northeast(TTT)ern, and would really only consider it if they could cover some of my living expenses too (I'm PI, so debt free is cool).

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spencercross
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby spencercross » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:11 pm

hereisonehand wrote:
Skool wrote:I would think you'll need some leverage before giving it another go, no?

Leverage certainly helps of course, but even without it, it would be worth asking for something, on grounds of making it financially feasible to attend, etc. The worst they can do is say no.

Second this. Don't ask five times, but it's worth asking at least a couple because you never know what may have changed on their end. Maybe they just freed up a bunch of money and are flush to make new offers. Maybe their class profile isn't shaping up the way they'd planned and they need one of your numbers now more than they did before. I mean, they're not offering you anything at all right now. It's not like they can offer you less.

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Skool
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Skool » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:14 pm

spencercross wrote:
hereisonehand wrote:
Skool wrote:I would think you'll need some leverage before giving it another go, no?

Leverage certainly helps of course, but even without it, it would be worth asking for something, on grounds of making it financially feasible to attend, etc. The worst they can do is say no.

Second this. Don't ask five times, but it's worth asking at least a couple because you never know what may have changed on their end. Maybe they just freed up a bunch of money and are flush to make new offers. Maybe their class profile isn't shaping up the way they'd planned and they need one of your numbers now more than they did before. I mean, they're not offering you anything at all right now. It's not like they can offer you less.
Noted

CM3809
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby CM3809 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:03 pm

Very dumb question, but what is an appropriate subject line to use when writing a scholarship negotiation email?

mecarey
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby mecarey » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:11 pm

CM3809 wrote:Very dumb question, but what is an appropriate subject line to use when writing a scholarship negotiation email?


I've done mine as a reply to the scholarship offer email - that seemed appropriate. That way they have the initial offer in hand when reading your counter. Don't make them have to go around hunting information down . . . make life easy for them!

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Dipper
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Dipper » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:15 pm

CM3809 wrote:Very dumb question, but what is an appropriate subject line to use when writing a scholarship negotiation email?


Mecarey's is good advice. If you got scholly via snailmail, I'd suggest something like "Question Regarding Scholarship."

Falcon3
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Falcon3 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:00 pm

I have been putting "Admitted Student Scholarship Inquiry"

On another note, are TTT being stingy this year? I've gotten my highest offers from schools WAY above my other offers (think 30's vs 110+)

I'm obviously using this as major leverage but it still seems weird to me. I'm a splitter though so maybe the math is different btw big and small schools

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Louis1127
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Louis1127 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:13 pm

Falcon3 wrote:I have been putting "Admitted Student Scholarship Inquiry"

On another note, are TTT being stingy this year?

They are for me, not that me and you are a representative sample. But it struck me as really weird how the higher ranked schools gave me better offers than TTT/TTTTs.

Falcon3
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Falcon3 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:34 pm

I'm hoping that the low amounts mean that TTT have started playing the negotiation game and are just low-balling folks knowing that the negotiations are to follow- I've got a few that should be getting back to me this week, so I guess we'll see. My best at a TTT and TT are 2/3T scholly right now- most are around 1/2T- My T1's schools are around 3/4- 90% scholly currently.

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spencercross
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby spencercross » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:22 pm

Asked this in Spivey's Q&A thread but realized I should probably post it here too:

I'm curious if it's possible to negotiate merit aid and need-based aid separately? For example, if one school gives me need-based aid but no merit aid, and a lower ranked school gives me both but not as much need-based aid, should I inform the lower ranked school of the bigger need-based offer from the higher ranked school? Or will the lower ranked school only be concerned about my total aid from the higher ranked? I got my need based offer from one of my schools and it included the language "We very much hope you find this offer competitive with others you have received. Please feel free to let us know," which lead me to wonder if I can leverage need-based offers against one another without regard to merit.
Last edited by spencercross on Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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