Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

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yossarian
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby yossarian » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:51 pm

clemenza wrote:Not sure how accurate that is considering those specific programs is what draws the students to the school. They pride themselves on that program more than the others. Yes overall ranking is important, but they compete with each other to maintain that top enviro law ranking.

Consensus on here is that lawyers don't care about them and schools don't care much. I would guess schools value their general sense of who their peer schools are >>>> USNWR > comparing employment outcomes regionally >>>> speciality rankings when establishing peer offers. Emphasis being that schools have a group of schools they consider peer and I doubt that group shows much flexibility.

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jk148706
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby jk148706 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:03 pm

clemenza wrote:
scottidsntknow wrote:
clemenza wrote:Could use some advice - is it possible to use specialty rankings as leverage for more scholarships. I've been admitted into all top environmental law programs with scholarships (2 with significant amount, the third not nearly as much), but would like to get more from the one that offered me less. I know that these schools are very competitive with each other when it comes to their enviro law programs, so it seems like it could work.

Thoughts?

This seems stupid, since environmental law rankings don't correlate with the general US News rankings, which is what the schools actually care about.


Not sure how accurate that is considering those specific programs is what draws the students to the school. They pride themselves on that program more than the others. Yes overall ranking is important, but they compete with each other to maintain that top enviro law ranking.


FTFY

Lol @ specialty rankings

dreamofNYC
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby dreamofNYC » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:42 pm

Dear TLS members, I would be grateful for your advice: so far I got into the following schools (in order of priority):

Bklyn Law School: 37K / year (80% stipulation)
New York Law School: full ride (I think 50% stipulation. I haven't received the admissions package yet)
Fordham Univ: 10K / year
Vermont Law School: 40K / year

I would like to attend Bklyn Law school, but would prefer to keep my debt low. I would like to send them a negotiation letter, but I am not really sure how to word it so that I do not sound impertinent. lol Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.

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yossarian
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby yossarian » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:47 pm

Email Bklyn letting them know why you want to go. Type negotiation letter into the form or 'negotiation letter law school' into the google to see examples. But basically:

Dear x

Paragraph 1: Bklyn is great, #1 choice
2: But I have to consider cost
3: NYLS has given me a full ride where I could reduce debt, Fordham has offered 10k/year with competitive employment outcomes.
4: But Bklyn is still my first choice because of reasons x, y, z. In order to make a sensible decision balancing debt and employment outcomes I request extra money.

Thanks bunches,
Bye

Also if bklyn considers vermont a peer, throw that in. Maybe they'd go up 3k/year. But i don't know about peer schools in this region.

Marquis
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Marquis » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:49 pm

I could use some advice.

I received a scholarship from my top choice (BC). After attending an ASW I emailed the finaid office to negotiate a merit aid increase. My email was thoughtful, genuine, and detailed why they were my top choice, but also why I needed more merit aid in order to make it a financially viable one. In my email I cited 2 competing scholarship offers (1 higher ranked, 1 roughly peer) that were significantly higher than BCs initial offer. For various reasons I did not disclose the amounts, but was and continue to be ready to send them the offers upon request.

Without requesting to see the competing offers, BC immediately increased my scholarship for which I am very grateful. However, the bump was so minimal as to barely make a difference in my financial position. Their offer remains ~40k shy of the lowest competing offer and ~70k shy of the highest competing offer. Now I certainly don't expect them to match a 105k scholarship offer, but it is still a substantial gulf between 36k and 105k. I would need them to offer at least an additional 30k in merit aid for attending to be financially viable.

So what's my move here? How do I go about returning to the negotiating table after they've already increased my offer once? I've cultivated a very positive relationship with all the admissions officers thus far and don't want to come off as an entitled douche.

Thanks in advance!

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snagglepuss
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby snagglepuss » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:06 pm

Marquis,

I think you made a slight misstep in how you framed your initial attempt at negotiating a scholarship increase because BC had no reason to make a significant increase when they have no idea that peer schools have offered $70K more. Instead of straight up revealing the size of the other scholarships you could've compared the cost of attendance of the schools and/or what kind of debt you would be looking at from each school.

Don't hesitate to get right back to them about another increase (as long as you conduct the communication sincerely, cordially, and professionally I don't think you can hurt your cause.)

e.g. While BC remains my top choice, I am hesitant to enter the legal job market with $200,000 of debt. I have received scholarship offers at schools X and Y that would allow me to graduate with less than $125,000 of debt. ...[Reason why you'd rather go to BC than them]... Would you be willing to increase my scholarship award to make my cost of attendance at BC comparable to schools X and Y? Doing so would ease my financial concerns about attending law school and make joining BC's class of 2017 the clear best option for me.

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theonerd
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby theonerd » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:17 pm

Hi Marquis,

I negotiated successfully with several tier 1 schools.
Basically I wrote my emails like this:
1. I like your school--here's why
2. Finances are most important factor
3. "Attached in pdf format are the other offers I have received from some of your peer schools."
I also made a brief list in the body of the email using the school name and the percentage of tuition they awarded me.
4. I would rather go to your school. Can you revisit your scholarship offer to make it more competitive with the other offers I have received?

Good luck to you.

Edit to add a P.S.
True, no one wants to be a douche, but keep in mind that they aren't going to rescind your offer of admission, and after you get admitted you will likely never have any significant contact with Admissions personnel again. You need to focus more on not being a douche to faculty and employment/advising offices.

Marquis
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Marquis » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:23 pm

snagglepuss wrote:Marquis,

I think you made a slight misstep in how you framed your initial attempt at negotiating a scholarship increase because BC had no reason to make a significant increase when they have no idea that peer schools have offered $70K more. Instead of straight up revealing the size of the other scholarships you could've compared the cost of attendance of the schools and/or what kind of debt you would be looking at from each school.

Don't hesitate to get right back to them about another increase (as long as you conduct the communication sincerely, cordially, and professionally I don't think you can hurt your cause.)

e.g. While BC remains my top choice, I am hesitant to enter the legal job market with $200,000 of debt. I have received scholarship offers at schools X and Y that would allow me to graduate with less than $125,000 of debt. ...[Reason why you'd rather go to BC than them]... Would you be willing to increase my scholarship award to make my cost of attendance at BC comparable to schools X and Y? Doing so would ease my financial concerns about attending law school and make joining BC's class of 2017 the clear best option for me.


I agree that I miscalculated in sending my initial request. I held off on stating actual figures for two reasons. Firstly, because I was expecting a bit of a back-and-forth before they came back with a new offer (which has been my experience at other schools) and secondly because I didn't want to limit them on the off (and admittedly hopeful) chance that they might come back with more than I would have been asking for had I gave them concrete numbers. I'll have to go back to them with some real figures and be both frank and respectful.

Thanks to both yourself and theonerd for the advice!

dreamofNYC
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby dreamofNYC » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:25 am

yossarian71 wrote:Email Bklyn letting them know why you want to go. Type negotiation letter into the form or 'negotiation letter law school' into the google to see examples. But basically:

Dear x

Paragraph 1: Bklyn is great, #1 choice
2: But I have to consider cost
3: NYLS has given me a full ride where I could reduce debt, Fordham has offered 10k/year with competitive employment outcomes.
4: But Bklyn is still my first choice because of reasons x, y, z. In order to make a sensible decision balancing debt and employment outcomes I request extra money.

Thanks bunches,
Bye


Also if bklyn considers vermont a peer, throw that in. Maybe they'd go up 3k/year. But i don't know about peer schools in this region.



Thank you so much. I typed my letter hitting the points you mentioned (thanks for the structure!!) and am ready to send it to Bklyn Law. I feel so insecure sending it out. If you had a moment to take a look at it, I would be grateful. Could I PM it to you?

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yossarian
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby yossarian » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:50 pm

dreamofNYC wrote:
Thank you so much. I typed my letter hitting the points you mentioned (thanks for the structure!!) and am ready to send it to Bklyn Law. I feel so insecure sending it out. If you had a moment to take a look at it, I would be grateful. Could I PM it to you?

No problem. If you get it to my by 3:15p ET, I can have it to you by 4:00p ET

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Amalthea
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Amalthea » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:55 pm

Any tips on requesting an increase in scholarship funds after a school has already told you that they will essentially "keep you in mind" for allocating additional scholarship monies that become available after SIR/1st deposit? I submitted an SIR for a school and then laid my best offers on the table for a scholarship boost and was given that response. I assumed this was probably a copout response and that they don't plan on awarding any additional money, but stories from other places on these boards have given me hope! How do I essentially say after a couple of weeks "So how's that 'keeping me in mind for when you have more $$' thing going? I don't have any new offers or information since I last e-mailed you, but I would really like to attend your school!"

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yossarian
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby yossarian » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:13 am

Amalthea wrote:Any tips on requesting an increase in scholarship funds after a school has already told you that they will essentially "keep you in mind" for allocating additional scholarship monies that become available after SIR/1st deposit? I submitted an SIR for a school and then laid my best offers on the table for a scholarship boost and was given that response. I assumed this was probably a copout response and that they don't plan on awarding any additional money, but stories from other places on these boards have given me hope! How do I essentially say after a couple of weeks "So how's that 'keeping me in mind for when you have more $$' thing going? I don't have any new offers or information since I last e-mailed you, but I would really like to attend your school!"

Use the final letter from this site as a baseline: http://lawschooladvice.com/guides/negotiating-scholarships/
Alter it a little to match your "just checking in" approach.

underwood15
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby underwood15 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:10 pm

I submitted deposits to both BU and BC last week, and they both offered me the same amount of scholarship money...can i still play them off of each other for more merit aid? or do admissions officers not look favorably on dual deposits?

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yossarian
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby yossarian » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:12 pm

underwood15 wrote:I submitted deposits to both BU and BC last week, and they both offered me the same amount of scholarship money...can i still play them off of each other for more merit aid? or do admissions officers not look favorably on dual deposits?

Depends a bit on the school. Reread your deposit materials to make sure it wasn't explicitly forbidden. If you're clear, just be tactful, but negotiating is fine.

Thorcogan
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Thorcogan » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:29 am

So, a little background first to explain the situation.

In at late 20s school with 15k
In at mid 20s school with 13k
In at 20 (one if the ones tied) with 10k

I negotiated with the 20 and they raised to 13k. I got an unsolicited increase to 25k from the late 20s school.

Now to the questions.

1a. Is there a way to explain to the 20 school that I haven't been negotiating at multiple schools and that the increase was unsolicited?
1b. Does it even matter or do they expect that to happen?

2. I know they won't withdraw acceptances, but what are the chances they increase it a second time?

3. Do I print/scan the late 20s email as proof or is simply forwarding it sufficient?
Thanks

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CoffeeIsLife
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby CoffeeIsLife » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:39 am

So I emailed a school which I had a close relationship with an admissions person just to give them my appreciation throughout the cycle and tell them that I was sorry I couldn't make it work because of $$$. (I had withdrawn earlier in April) They responded and asked now that the deposit deadline is over, how much would I take for you to reconsider us?

I am happy with the school I chose, but I think I would also be happy at the other school. How aggressive should I be with how much $$ I would need to make the switch. I was personally thinking I should aim high since I would be happy with my situation as is. Also, could I use this as a bargaining chip even without double depositing?

Sorry for not listing schools, trying to stay slightly anonymous with this situation.

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DerekZoolander
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby DerekZoolander » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:43 am

CoffeeIsLife wrote:So I emailed a school which I had a close relationship with an admissions person just to give them my appreciation throughout the cycle and tell them that I was sorry I couldn't make it work because of $$$. (I had withdrawn earlier in April) They responded and asked now that the deposit deadline is over, how much would I take for you to reconsider us?

I am happy with the school I chose, but I think I would also be happy at the other school. How aggressive should I be with how much $$ I would need to make the switch. I was personally thinking I should aim high since I would be happy with my situation as is. Also, could I use this as a bargaining chip even without double depositing?

Sorry for not listing schools, trying to stay slightly anonymous with this situation.


Yeah, I'd say just ask for the honest amount it would require, no matter how high or how low. Close your eyes and imagine they sent an email back saying "ok, here's $XX,XXX." In that situation, I'd say you quite literally want to say "Well, if you offered $XX,XXX I'd have no choice but to send in my deposit and attend."

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CoffeeIsLife
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby CoffeeIsLife » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:47 am

DerekZoolander wrote:
CoffeeIsLife wrote:So I emailed a school which I had a close relationship with an admissions person just to give them my appreciation throughout the cycle and tell them that I was sorry I couldn't make it work because of $$$. (I had withdrawn earlier in April) They responded and asked now that the deposit deadline is over, how much would I take for you to reconsider us?

I am happy with the school I chose, but I think I would also be happy at the other school. How aggressive should I be with how much $$ I would need to make the switch. I was personally thinking I should aim high since I would be happy with my situation as is. Also, could I use this as a bargaining chip even without double depositing?

Sorry for not listing schools, trying to stay slightly anonymous with this situation.


Yeah, I'd say just ask for the honest amount it would require, no matter how high or how low. Close your eyes and imagine they sent an email back saying "ok, here's $XX,XXX." In that situation, I'd say you quite literally want to say "Well, if you offered $XX,XXX I'd have no choice but to send in my deposit and attend."


I appreciate the quick response. I'm still trying to figure what that $ figure is.

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DerekZoolander
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby DerekZoolander » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:02 pm

CoffeeIsLife wrote:
DerekZoolander wrote:
CoffeeIsLife wrote:So I emailed a school which I had a close relationship with an admissions person just to give them my appreciation throughout the cycle and tell them that I was sorry I couldn't make it work because of $$$. (I had withdrawn earlier in April) They responded and asked now that the deposit deadline is over, how much would I take for you to reconsider us?

I am happy with the school I chose, but I think I would also be happy at the other school. How aggressive should I be with how much $$ I would need to make the switch. I was personally thinking I should aim high since I would be happy with my situation as is. Also, could I use this as a bargaining chip even without double depositing?

Sorry for not listing schools, trying to stay slightly anonymous with this situation.


Yeah, I'd say just ask for the honest amount it would require, no matter how high or how low. Close your eyes and imagine they sent an email back saying "ok, here's $XX,XXX." In that situation, I'd say you quite literally want to say "Well, if you offered $XX,XXX I'd have no choice but to send in my deposit and attend."


I appreciate the quick response. I'm still trying to figure what that $ figure is.


I'd say choose a few numbers about $2-3k apart, throw them in a loan calculator, see the end amounts and compare them to the school you've committed to.

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njdevils2626
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby njdevils2626 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:12 pm

Just came to post a story that will hopefully provide you guys with some optimism!

Was accepted to two T20 schools with identical $75K scholarships. Sent in a negotiation request based off the equivalent offers to the school I'm hoping to attend and found out today that they bumped me up to $120K!

Just wanted to let you guys know that even without much leverage it is always worth it to ask for more, you never know what they'll do but the worst you can get is your original offer. Best of luck to all those still negotiating, feel free to PM for specific questions

SowhatsNU
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby SowhatsNU » Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:47 pm

Hey all, I have a question I was hoping some of you could help me with.

Now I've gone through alot of the posts here and couldnt find an answer, but keep in mind there are 63 pages

First off negotiating scholarships DEFINITELY works. I went from 5k a yr at one top 20 school (call it school A) and no scholarship at another (school B), to 15k/yr at A and 10k/yr at B. I simply sent a kind email saying how I wanted to attend the school but had to take my finances into consideration, and sent them a link to the other school's offer, then doubled back.

My order went as follows-email to B showing A's offer, then Email to A showing B's new offer, then got a new offer from A

HERE'S MY QUESTION: would I face any repercussions from doing this again? I know it may not be the nicest thing to do, but these Law Schools are sucking us all dry, and at the end it's a business. Could I got to school B with my new offer from A? Would I jeopardize losing my scholarship offer at one or both schools, or is the worst that could happen would be they say no? Does anyone know the qualifications for revoking a scholarship??

Sorry for the long post-and thanks-good luck to all!!

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samoby
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby samoby » Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:55 pm

SowhatsNU wrote:Hey all, I have a question I was hoping some of you could help me with.

Now I've gone through alot of the posts here and couldnt find an answer, but keep in mind there are 63 pages

First off negotiating scholarships DEFINITELY works. I went from 5k a yr at one top 20 school (call it school A) and no scholarship at another (school B), to 15k/yr at A and 10k/yr at B. I simply sent a kind email saying how I wanted to attend the school but had to take my finances into consideration, and sent them a link to the other school's offer, then doubled back.

My order went as follows-email to B showing A's offer, then Email to A showing B's new offer, then got a new offer from A

HERE'S MY QUESTION: would I face any repercussions from doing this again? I know it may not be the nicest thing to do, but these Law Schools are sucking us all dry, and at the end it's a business. Could I got to school B with my new offer from A? Would I jeopardize losing my scholarship offer at one or both schools, or is the worst that could happen would be they say no? Does anyone know the qualifications for revoking a scholarship??

Sorry for the long post-and thanks-good luck to all!!


I'm pretty sure they can't take back the scholarship. I've definitely done what you're describing and it's worked out well!

jdapplicant
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby jdapplicant » Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:18 pm

samoby wrote:
SowhatsNU wrote:Hey all, I have a question I was hoping some of you could help me with.

Now I've gone through alot of the posts here and couldnt find an answer, but keep in mind there are 63 pages

First off negotiating scholarships DEFINITELY works. I went from 5k a yr at one top 20 school (call it school A) and no scholarship at another (school B), to 15k/yr at A and 10k/yr at B. I simply sent a kind email saying how I wanted to attend the school but had to take my finances into consideration, and sent them a link to the other school's offer, then doubled back.

My order went as follows-email to B showing A's offer, then Email to A showing B's new offer, then got a new offer from A

HERE'S MY QUESTION: would I face any repercussions from doing this again? I know it may not be the nicest thing to do, but these Law Schools are sucking us all dry, and at the end it's a business. Could I got to school B with my new offer from A? Would I jeopardize losing my scholarship offer at one or both schools, or is the worst that could happen would be they say no? Does anyone know the qualifications for revoking a scholarship??

Sorry for the long post-and thanks-good luck to all!!


I'm pretty sure they can't take back the scholarship. I've definitely done what you're describing and it's worked out well!


They can take back their offer, but I don't think any schools has for the reason you presented. They'll only possibly do so if you're really rude and say something that totally puts them off. If you're professional about it, you'll be fine and have nothing to worry about in that regard.

paayter
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby paayter » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:01 pm

can anyone help guide me on how to respond to an upped offer you are not happy with? for example, they came back and told you here is the new offer, let us know if u accept. is it time to tell them a specific number?

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thevuch
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Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby thevuch » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:06 pm

is trying to get 3 solicited increases too much?

gotten 2 so far thanks to this thread.


is 1 more just being a douche and theyll hate me or what




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