Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.
User avatar
bkegslounge
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby bkegslounge » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:57 pm

lawschool22 wrote:
kdot wrote:
guano wrote:I'd say wait until asked. Otherwise you're just setting a cap on how much they'll offer.
If you say "I got X from a peer school", they know they just need to match, or barely beat X.
If you say that you got scholarships at a peer school (or better) then they'll have to make an offer and hope it's good enough. If it's less than X, you can then go back and ask them to match it (or try to beat it)


Thanks for your response. I have to admit: I've been lurking through TLS for a while and hadn't really considered that option. All of the examples I've seen have stated dollar amounts.

Do you think that it makes sense to say (assuming they are all peer schools), "I received scholarships from schools W,X,Y, and Z"? Or just cite one school?

I guess I am trying to figure out if the presence of multiple scholarships would make a school more likely to negotiate.


Use dollar amounts if you want, but if you do, just say "$XX" is what I would need to make X School financially feasible for me. And that number should be highre than the other schools' offers.

But I would refrain from dollar amounts unless they specifically ask. It's the first rule in negotiation, give away as little information about your position as possible. They may offer you more than you even request, but if you request a certain amount, they will never exceed that.


What about negotiating stips? I have almost the same exact offer from schools with literally the same ranking but one of them has a 3.2 GPA stip and the other is "good standing." Would it be advantageous to point that out as a legitimate concern?

I've also received advice that you should always attach other schools' offers in your email. You're saying to hold off on that until they specifically request it?

User avatar
lawschool22
Posts: 3875
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby lawschool22 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:59 pm

bkegslounge wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:
kdot wrote:
guano wrote:I'd say wait until asked. Otherwise you're just setting a cap on how much they'll offer.
If you say "I got X from a peer school", they know they just need to match, or barely beat X.
If you say that you got scholarships at a peer school (or better) then they'll have to make an offer and hope it's good enough. If it's less than X, you can then go back and ask them to match it (or try to beat it)


Thanks for your response. I have to admit: I've been lurking through TLS for a while and hadn't really considered that option. All of the examples I've seen have stated dollar amounts.

Do you think that it makes sense to say (assuming they are all peer schools), "I received scholarships from schools W,X,Y, and Z"? Or just cite one school?

I guess I am trying to figure out if the presence of multiple scholarships would make a school more likely to negotiate.


Use dollar amounts if you want, but if you do, just say "$XX" is what I would need to make X School financially feasible for me. And that number should be highre than the other schools' offers.

But I would refrain from dollar amounts unless they specifically ask. It's the first rule in negotiation, give away as little information about your position as possible. They may offer you more than you even request, but if you request a certain amount, they will never exceed that.


What about negotiating stips? I have almost the same exact offer from schools with literally the same ranking but one of them has a 3.2 GPA stip and the other is "good standing." Would it be advantageous to point that out as a legitimate concern?

I've also received advice that you should always attach other schools' offers in your email. You're saying to hold off on that until they specifically request it?


Yes that's what I'm saying. I don't know why you would do that at first. It's like showing them your cards. What if the other school's offer is $50k? You attach it, and the best they will do is match it. Maybe, though, you tell them that $60k would make it financially feasible, and they accept it. I'm not saying this is what will happen, but you eliminate that possibility the moment you tell them what the other school will offer.

I don't see why you couldn't try to negotiate stips, but I'm guessing the admissions office has less control over that.

User avatar
guano
Posts: 2268
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:49 am

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby guano » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:04 pm

kdot wrote:
guano wrote:I'd say wait until asked. Otherwise you're just setting a cap on how much they'll offer.
If you say "I got X from a peer school", they know they just need to match, or barely beat X.
If you say that you got scholarships at a peer school (or better) then they'll have to make an offer and hope it's good enough. If it's less than X, you can then go back and ask them to match it (or try to beat it)


Thanks for your response. I have to admit: I've been lurking through TLS for a while and hadn't really considered that option. All of the examples I've seen have stated dollar amounts.

Do you think that it makes sense to say (assuming they are all peer schools), "I received scholarships from schools W,X,Y, and Z"? Or just cite one school?

I guess I am trying to figure out if the presence of multiple scholarships would make a school more likely to negotiate.

it depends...
I did not mention which schools made offers, because the big schollys came from schools that were most definitely not peers. If it's a peer school I probably would have said that I got a generous offer from school X

User avatar
bkegslounge
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby bkegslounge » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:09 pm

lawschool22 wrote:
bkegslounge wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:
Use dollar amounts if you want, but if you do, just say "$XX" is what I would need to make X School financially feasible for me. And that number should be highre than the other schools' offers.

But I would refrain from dollar amounts unless they specifically ask. It's the first rule in negotiation, give away as little information about your position as possible. They may offer you more than you even request, but if you request a certain amount, they will never exceed that.


What about negotiating stips? I have almost the same exact offer from schools with literally the same ranking but one of them has a 3.2 GPA stip and the other is "good standing." Would it be advantageous to point that out as a legitimate concern?

I've also received advice that you should always attach other schools' offers in your email. You're saying to hold off on that until they specifically request it?


Yes that's what I'm saying. I don't know why you would do that at first. It's like showing them your cards. What if the other school's offer is $50k? You attach it, and the best they will do is match it. Maybe, though, you tell them that $60k would make it financially feasible, and they accept it. I'm not saying this is what will happen, but you eliminate that possibility the moment you tell them what the other school will offer.

I don't see why you couldn't try to negotiate stips, but I'm guessing the admissions office has less control over that.


Thanks for the advice. I have enough offers already so I think I'll start negotiating maybe next week. I'll post an update on this thread when I hear back.

abrahm
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:38 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby abrahm » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:12 pm

Does anyone have experience negotiation scholarship with Richmond? I'm wondering if they take offers from peer schools into consideration at all. I have a $90,000 offer from a school ranked one spot below Richmond and have not received any scholarship offer from Richmond yet. Any insight would be appreciated! :D

User avatar
kdot
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 2:10 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby kdot » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:21 pm

kdot wrote:

Do you think that it makes sense to say (assuming they are all peer schools), "I received scholarships from schools W,X,Y, and Z"? Or just cite one school?

I guess I am trying to figure out if the presence of multiple scholarships would make a school more likely to negotiate.

guano wrote:it depends...
I did not mention which schools made offers, because the big schollys came from schools that were most definitely not peers. If it's a peer school I probably would have said that I got a generous offer from school X


Great. Thanks for the advice -- very helpful information (and makes a lot of sense).

User avatar
Optimist Prime
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:28 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Optimist Prime » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:08 pm

abrahm wrote:Does anyone have experience negotiation scholarship with Richmond? I'm wondering if they take offers from peer schools into consideration at all. I have a $90,000 offer from a school ranked one spot below Richmond and have not received any scholarship offer from Richmond yet. Any insight would be appreciated! :D


This isn't from personal experience, but Richmond should/will almost definitely play ball.

User avatar
SailorMoon9543
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby SailorMoon9543 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:11 pm

abrahm wrote:Does anyone have experience negotiation scholarship with Richmond? I'm wondering if they take offers from peer schools into consideration at all. I have a $90,000 offer from a school ranked one spot below Richmond and have not received any scholarship offer from Richmond yet. Any insight would be appreciated! :D


+1 but for FSU???

bobloblaw0227
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:28 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby bobloblaw0227 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:58 pm

I have heard from a pretty reputable source (former admissions officer) that calling and politely requesting scholarship consideration (or re-consideration) is better than sending a letter/email. Any experience with this or recommendations? It could certainly be more awkward on the phone, but I feel like it may make me seem less like a money-grubbing succubus.

User avatar
buddyt
Posts: 773
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:59 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby buddyt » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:44 pm

bobloblaw0227 wrote:I have heard from a pretty reputable source (former admissions officer) that calling and politely requesting scholarship consideration (or re-consideration) is better than sending a letter/email. Any experience with this or recommendations? It could certainly be more awkward on the phone, but I feel like it may make me seem less like a money-grubbing succubus.

Who cares about being a money-grubbing succubus. Law school is outrageously priced and job prospects are downright terrible; you are fully justified in aggressively bargaining if you have the numbers to back it up. Just be polite.

I think it's easier to be polite via email; you are right that it's more awkward over the phone. I don't think calling is any more effective than emailing, and I would argue that it is less effective because being an admissions officer right now must be an extremely stressful job and they don't have a lot of free time and would probably prefer an email allowing them to get back to you on their own terms. In my case I emailed and would get a phone call back a few days later. I emailed twice, stood my ground on the phone, and was able to increase my scholarship from around half to almost full.

User avatar
chargers
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:33 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby chargers » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:47 pm

This thread has been a huge help as I've begun the negotiation process, so thank you to everyone who has shared their experiences and wisdom. I have a question that I haven't seen discussed on this thread yet, however I haven't read every page so my apologies if I'm beating a dead horse.

How effective is it to use non-monetary factors in the negotiating process? For example I have been offered close to a full ride at Washington & Lee. Their offer is the highest I've gotten but their job prospects are pretty crummy and the location doesn't seem to be for everybody, so it would probably take a full ride and maybe stipend for them to move up my list. If I tried to politely say their scholarship offer was generous and even though W&L is my cheapest option I'm still not sure it is worth it because of location and poor job prospects. However, if the cost of attendance was lowered even further and I had to take on even less debt it would become an option--or something along those lines.

Do schools consider those factors or do they usually just respond to the scholarship offers of schools they compete with for applicants?

Thanks!

User avatar
Optimist Prime
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:28 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Optimist Prime » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:08 pm

SenatorClayDavis wrote:Do you think it is reasonable to ask your top choice school for money if none has been offered? :?


There's no downside to asking for a scholarship, worst they can so is no. Definitely worth asking, finding the approach that is most likely to result in a positive outcome is the part you should research.

User avatar
furrrman
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:36 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby furrrman » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:38 am

chargers wrote:This thread has been a huge help as I've begun the negotiation process, so thank you to everyone who has shared their experiences and wisdom. I have a question that I haven't seen discussed on this thread yet, however I haven't read every page so my apologies if I'm beating a dead horse.

How effective is it to use non-monetary factors in the negotiating process? For example I have been offered close to a full ride at Washington & Lee. Their offer is the highest I've gotten but their job prospects are pretty crummy and the location doesn't seem to be for everybody, so it would probably take a full ride and maybe stipend for them to move up my list. If I tried to politely say their scholarship offer was generous and even though W&L is my cheapest option I'm still not sure it is worth it because of location and poor job prospects. However, if the cost of attendance was lowered even further and I had to take on even less debt it would become an option--or something along those lines.

Do schools consider those factors or do they usually just respond to the scholarship offers of schools they compete with for applicants?

Thanks!


Saying something like that seems to me tantamount to saying "your school sucks so I need way more money to even think about going there." Ok, well, maybe not that bad, but I think its easy for a comment like that to come off as insulting, even if its not your intention. It also shows you don't hold the school in especially high regard, and may not be likely to attend, which may disincline admissions folk to increase their offer.

User avatar
guano
Posts: 2268
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:49 am

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby guano » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:42 am

chargers wrote:This thread has been a huge help as I've begun the negotiation process, so thank you to everyone who has shared their experiences and wisdom. I have a question that I haven't seen discussed on this thread yet, however I haven't read every page so my apologies if I'm beating a dead horse.

How effective is it to use non-monetary factors in the negotiating process? For example I have been offered close to a full ride at Washington & Lee. Their offer is the highest I've gotten but their job prospects are pretty crummy and the location doesn't seem to be for everybody, so it would probably take a full ride and maybe stipend for them to move up my list. If I tried to politely say their scholarship offer was generous and even though W&L is my cheapest option I'm still not sure it is worth it because of location and poor job prospects. However, if the cost of attendance was lowered even further and I had to take on even less debt it would become an option--or something along those lines.

Do schools consider those factors or do they usually just respond to the scholarship offers of schools they compete with for applicants?

Thanks!

Just say you like
Do you even want to attend? Sounds like you don't want to go there, and therefore you shouldn't, regardless of the scholky

User avatar
chargers
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:33 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby chargers » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:02 am

furrrman wrote:
chargers wrote:This thread has been a huge help as I've begun the negotiation process, so thank you to everyone who has shared their experiences and wisdom. I have a question that I haven't seen discussed on this thread yet, however I haven't read every page so my apologies if I'm beating a dead horse.

How effective is it to use non-monetary factors in the negotiating process? For example I have been offered close to a full ride at Washington & Lee. Their offer is the highest I've gotten but their job prospects are pretty crummy and the location doesn't seem to be for everybody, so it would probably take a full ride and maybe stipend for them to move up my list. If I tried to politely say their scholarship offer was generous and even though W&L is my cheapest option I'm still not sure it is worth it because of location and poor job prospects. However, if the cost of attendance was lowered even further and I had to take on even less debt it would become an option--or something along those lines.

Do schools consider those factors or do they usually just respond to the scholarship offers of schools they compete with for applicants?

Thanks!


Saying something like that seems to me tantamount to saying "your school sucks so I need way more money to even think about going there." Ok, well, maybe not that bad, but I think its easy for a comment like that to come off as insulting, even if its not your intention. It also shows you don't hold the school in especially high regard, and may not be likely to attend, which may disincline admissions folk to increase their offer.


Makes sense, I was kind of worried it would come across that way.

User avatar
patfeeney
Posts: 437
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:47 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby patfeeney » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:25 am

buddyt wrote:
bobloblaw0227 wrote:I have heard from a pretty reputable source (former admissions officer) that calling and politely requesting scholarship consideration (or re-consideration) is better than sending a letter/email. Any experience with this or recommendations? It could certainly be more awkward on the phone, but I feel like it may make me seem less like a money-grubbing succubus.

Who cares about being a money-grubbing succubus. Law school is outrageously priced and job prospects are downright terrible; you are fully justified in aggressively bargaining if you have the numbers to back it up. Just be polite.

I think it's easier to be polite via email; you are right that it's more awkward over the phone. I don't think calling is any more effective than emailing, and I would argue that it is less effective because being an admissions officer right now must be an extremely stressful job and they don't have a lot of free time and would probably prefer an email allowing them to get back to you on their own terms. In my case I emailed and would get a phone call back a few days later. I emailed twice, stood my ground on the phone, and was able to increase my scholarship from around half to almost full.


You can always rehearse what you're going to say on the phone or even have a brief script worked out so you can sound polite but not awkward. I do it all the time.

redsoxfan1989
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:04 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby redsoxfan1989 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:07 am

I received a scholarship offer from Michigan and it expressly said they do not "compete" with other schools' offers. Has anybody found this to be true/not true?

User avatar
Attax
Posts: 3589
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:59 am

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Attax » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:16 pm

Went from $15k->$36k/year at Baylor.

User avatar
bkegslounge
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby bkegslounge » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:36 pm

redsoxfan1989 wrote:I received a scholarship offer from Michigan and it expressly said they do not "compete" with other schools' offers. Has anybody found this to be true/not true?

My friend is currently a 1L at Michigan. She got into UCLA and Michigan with no money to either. She's from LA and went to UCLA undergrad. Basically, she told Michigan she wants to stay in LA but would go to Michigan if it was financially feasible to uproot her life and move across the country. Michigan responded with a $20k/yr offer. Obviously, this is just what she told me but bottom line: she went from $0 to $20k. Not sure if that parallels your situation though but hope it helps.
Attax wrote:Went from $15k->$36k/year at Baylor.

Nice! Congrats. Could you elaborate though, please? Did you have similar offers from peer schools, acceptances to higher ranked schools, etc? Provide some insight for the rest of us.

User avatar
Attax
Posts: 3589
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:59 am

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby Attax » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:50 pm

bkegslounge wrote:
Attax wrote:Went from $15k->$36k/year at Baylor.

Nice! Congrats. Could you elaborate though, please? Did you have similar offers from peer schools, acceptances to higher ranked schools, etc? Provide some insight for the rest of us.


Sure. In at Texas, WUStL, Houston, W&L (35k/year) so far. I used the W&L only.

OsaroLJ
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:37 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby OsaroLJ » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:16 pm

So I'm still confused with this peer school nomenclature.

For example, is WUSTL considered a peer school to UT? To Michigan? Is Vanderbilt a peer to Michigan?

Etc

User avatar
MarkinKansasCity
Posts: 11072
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:18 am

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:41 pm

OsaroLJ wrote:So I'm still confused with this peer school nomenclature.

For example, is WUSTL considered a peer school to UT? To Michigan? Is Vanderbilt a peer to Michigan?

Etc


It's more of a sliding scale. If you were going to buy a mercedes, you would bring a quote from another dealer for a mercedes, or maybe a bmw. It gets interesting when you start trying to utilize that great offer you got on the Yaris when you're bargaining for an S-class.

US News is as good a proxy for this as any, but it's good for scholarship negotiations the way it's good for life choices. It gives you a ballpark. The specifics are more complicated.

User avatar
sublime
Posts: 15418
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby sublime » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:43 pm

..

User avatar
MarkinKansasCity
Posts: 11072
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:18 am

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:51 pm

sublime wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
OsaroLJ wrote:So I'm still confused with this peer school nomenclature.

For example, is WUSTL considered a peer school to UT? To Michigan? Is Vanderbilt a peer to Michigan?

Etc


It's more of a sliding scale. If you were going to buy a mercedes, you would bring a quote from another dealer for a mercedes, or maybe a bmw. It gets interesting when you start trying to utilize that great offer you got on the Yaris when you're bargaining for an S-class.

US News is as good a proxy for this as any, but it's good for scholarship negotiations the way it's good for life choices. It gives you a ballpark. The specifics are more complicated.



And generally, the more reasonable it would be for you to pass up one offer for another (for whatever reason) the better. Or at least the more you can convince an adcomm of that.


That's really what you're trying to do. You need to make an argument that at the current price points, School A makes more sense than School B for you. Get creative. I know I did.

User avatar
AT9
Posts: 1305
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 6:00 pm

Re: Negotiating scholarships works!!!!!

Postby AT9 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:16 am

Looking for some advice...

I got a nearly full tuition offer from Wake Forest ($10k or less in tuition), and I'm 100% ok going with that option if I can't pull in any better offers. However, there are some peer schools I would potentially attend near the same price (UGA, W&M, Bama, SMU), two that I would consider for more (Emory, which I'm still waiting on, and WUSTL, where I currently have a $51k discount), and one that I would potentially attend at a substantially higher price (Vandy).

What strategy would be best? I can think of a couple options:

1. Use my WF offer as leverage at all of the schools right off the bat.
2. Use the WF offer on the peer schools, then approach Vandy, WUSTL, and Emory with potentially more offers from lower ranked schools as opposed to just the WF offer.

I also have decent offers from UGA ($40k total tuition) and FSU ($20k total tuition) that I could maybe use.

*COL won't be a big consideration because my spouse will be working.




Return to “Law School Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 20171lhopeful, bleakchimera2, cathy95, KeYe88, lawlawlawzz, lawschoolbound2017, MSNbot Media, potterotter, proteinshake, Pugnax, ramp_999, Rubbishdump, SamTarly and 22 guests