International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

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MisterT
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby MisterT » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:38 pm

freekick wrote:
Strangeland wrote:
freekick wrote:
Strangeland wrote:
freekick wrote:Question to fellow reapplicants: Are you recyclying your LoRs? The PS will of course be new.

I am.


So the PS, and other essays if you are writing any, is the only change from before?

Yeah. Maybe I would recycle Why X school essays but I didn't like what I wrote the first time. There's also resume, if you have anything new to add. (I also had a new score)


Thanks for sharing. Same combo for me: PS+resume+new score. I am not sure about Why X and diversity essays. Don't want to force them as I currently don't have solid basis for either.


Recycling almost everything including LORs, though edited PS quite a bit. I heard admissions can look negatively on you if you ''reinvent' yourself/your motives in your PS, assuming they remember you. I also heard of people who used the same PS and didn't have any problems. But definitely update your CV at least.

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freekick
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby freekick » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:08 pm

MisterT wrote:
freekick wrote:
Strangeland wrote:
freekick wrote:
Strangeland wrote:
freekick wrote:Question to fellow reapplicants: Are you recyclying your LoRs? The PS will of course be new.

I am.


So the PS, and other essays if you are writing any, is the only change from before?

Yeah. Maybe I would recycle Why X school essays but I didn't like what I wrote the first time. There's also resume, if you have anything new to add. (I also had a new score)


Thanks for sharing. Same combo for me: PS+resume+new score. I am not sure about Why X and diversity essays. Don't want to force them as I currently don't have solid basis for either.


Recycling almost everything including LORs, though edited PS quite a bit. I heard admissions can look negatively on you if you ''reinvent' yourself/your motives in your PS, assuming they remember you. I also heard of people who used the same PS and didn't have any problems. But definitely update your CV at least.


But several schools specifically ask for a new PS from reapplicants. Maybe not all do.

Interesting point about reinventing oneself. Will compare my earlier PS with the new.

BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?)
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:25 pm

Checking in. International UG. Engineer and MBA. Non traditional with almost six years of work exp, including entrepreneurial. LSAT -166, waiting for December score. Evaluation - superior for UG, AA for grad. Indian and hence non URM!

Good luck to all.

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appind
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby appind » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:59 pm

BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?) wrote:Checking in. International UG. Engineer and MBA. Non traditional with almost six years of work exp, including entrepreneurial. LSAT -166, waiting for December score. Evaluation - superior for UG, AA for grad. Indian and hence non URM!

Good luck to all.

The JD foreign CAS eval only has my UG degree and don't have any eval for US grad degree.
where are you able to see AA evaluation for grad?

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appind
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby appind » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:14 pm

MisterT wrote:
freekick wrote:
hellohalo wrote:
freekick wrote:
appind wrote:nice to see an international thread.
American with international ug. superior/low 170s.

anyone know the effect of superior rating but low gpa?


LSAC's GPA evaluation factors in the quality, difficulty etc of the course. So if your 'low' gpa got a superior rating, there is nothing low about it anymore. The rating is all that counts.


In my evaluation, LSAC quoted some authority publications on higher education in my country. I believe they take the quality/reputation of the school into consideration. But as to the difficulty of major, I doubt LSAC is the one to say chemical engineering is more challenging than a foreign language.

But anyway, a superior is superior. No need to worry much about it. I just wish law schools will look deeper into my "above average" transcripts. Cuz my transcripts are just numbers and a suggestion of A=90-100, B=80-90 etc. All the numbers on my transcripts are hardcore real numbers from the exam. There's no curve in my college. I mean I could be (and I was) top 1 even with a 85 out of 100. But it was just a B.

Whatever I say, it's up to the law school to make their decision. Admission for us international UG is less predictable for sure. Good luck to everyone.


Want to digress a bit to add that since we don't contribute to GPA medians, the LSAC trancript rating works more like a necessary condition than a standalone application booster. The LSAT seems to be pretty much the game barring something truly exceptional (good/bad).

Interested in knowing what others think.


I think that the foreign transcript evaluation is somewhat arbitrary. It seems difficult to factor in a curve or (lack of) grade inflation in certain education systems, which is why submitting a class ranking often helps sway the evaluators one way or another. Also, in my case, failed exams or grades that were scored but de facto pass/fail (subject to study degree-specific regulations), are usually taken in to account as they would at US institutions, unless certain practices are well known throughout the entire system of the respective country. For example, I recieved an "average" rating due to such graded but ultimately pass/fail classes from my freshman year being calculated in to my average. The fact that my GPA was enough to gain admission to a Master's program requiring a GPA of 3.5 for US applicants didn't seem to sway them, but I put it in an addendum to make sure the schools got the bigger picture.

Having looked in to it when I applied last cycle it does seem that LSATs are weighted heavily compares to academic performance for international applicants, still I think schools do want to know if you have the study ethic required for their program, so if there is anyway to put your grades in context, don't be afraid to reach out to schools or write an addendum.


it's hard to think that adcomms will simply go by rating of "superior" when the transcript is full of Bs or Cs/GPA 2.9 and prefer it over a transcript evaluated as "above-average" but is full of As/has a GPA of 3.7.
But considering how heavy-handed law school admissions is (no distinction between STEM gpa vs other majors or not fully accounting for difficulty of grading even within US), it's entirely possible they go only by lsac rating and ignore the rest entirely.

May be an adcomm can shed light on this. may be spivey thread can answer this if more internationals posted there..

here is a spreadsheet for internationals from previous cycle

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=233438&p=8214776&hilit=spreadsheet#p8214726

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freekick
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby freekick » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:27 pm

I am up for PS swapping via PM. In addition to general feedback, we could answer each other's pointed questions too.

Anyone else up for it?

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galeatus
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby galeatus » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:35 pm

appind wrote:
MisterT wrote:
freekick wrote:
hellohalo wrote:
freekick wrote:
appind wrote:nice to see an international thread.
American with international ug. superior/low 170s.

anyone know the effect of superior rating but low gpa?


LSAC's GPA evaluation factors in the quality, difficulty etc of the course. So if your 'low' gpa got a superior rating, there is nothing low about it anymore. The rating is all that counts.


In my evaluation, LSAC quoted some authority publications on higher education in my country. I believe they take the quality/reputation of the school into consideration. But as to the difficulty of major, I doubt LSAC is the one to say chemical engineering is more challenging than a foreign language.

But anyway, a superior is superior. No need to worry much about it. I just wish law schools will look deeper into my "above average" transcripts. Cuz my transcripts are just numbers and a suggestion of A=90-100, B=80-90 etc. All the numbers on my transcripts are hardcore real numbers from the exam. There's no curve in my college. I mean I could be (and I was) top 1 even with a 85 out of 100. But it was just a B.

Whatever I say, it's up to the law school to make their decision. Admission for us international UG is less predictable for sure. Good luck to everyone.


Want to digress a bit to add that since we don't contribute to GPA medians, the LSAC trancript rating works more like a necessary condition than a standalone application booster. The LSAT seems to be pretty much the game barring something truly exceptional (good/bad).

Interested in knowing what others think.


I think that the foreign transcript evaluation is somewhat arbitrary. It seems difficult to factor in a curve or (lack of) grade inflation in certain education systems, which is why submitting a class ranking often helps sway the evaluators one way or another. Also, in my case, failed exams or grades that were scored but de facto pass/fail (subject to study degree-specific regulations), are usually taken in to account as they would at US institutions, unless certain practices are well known throughout the entire system of the respective country. For example, I recieved an "average" rating due to such graded but ultimately pass/fail classes from my freshman year being calculated in to my average. The fact that my GPA was enough to gain admission to a Master's program requiring a GPA of 3.5 for US applicants didn't seem to sway them, but I put it in an addendum to make sure the schools got the bigger picture.

Having looked in to it when I applied last cycle it does seem that LSATs are weighted heavily compares to academic performance for international applicants, still I think schools do want to know if you have the study ethic required for their program, so if there is anyway to put your grades in context, don't be afraid to reach out to schools or write an addendum.


it's hard to think that adcomms will simply go by rating of "superior" when the transcript is full of Bs or Cs/GPA 2.9 and prefer it over a transcript evaluated as "above-average" but is full of As/has a GPA of 3.7.
But considering how heavy-handed law school admissions is (no distinction between STEM gpa vs other majors or not fully accounting for difficulty of grading even within US), it's entirely possible they go only by lsac rating and ignore the rest entirely.

May be an adcomm can shed light on this. may be spivey thread can answer this if more internationals posted there..

here is a spreadsheet for internationals from previous cycle

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... t#p8214726


Yeah I think Spivey et al are the only ones who can give some proper clarification on this. Your case is incredibly unique and I doubt you can get anywhere near a reliable answer just by looking at the small set of data for past International applicants.

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appind
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby appind » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:42 pm

galeatus wrote:
Yeah I think Spivey et al are the only ones who can give some proper clarification on this. Your case is incredibly unique and I doubt you can get anywhere near a reliable answer just by looking at the small set of data for past International applicants.


i also thought that spivey group would have more info on this, but that thread i think moves slow.
any other international in the same boat?

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freekick
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby freekick » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:52 pm

appind wrote:
galeatus wrote:
Yeah I think Spivey et al are the only ones who can give some proper clarification on this. Your case is incredibly unique and I doubt you can get anywhere near a reliable answer just by looking at the small set of data for past International applicants.


i also thought that spivey group would have more info on this, but that thread i think moves slow.
any other international in the same boat?


Though not in the same boat, I am still wondering why law schools would go beyond LSAC's rating (that already takes most, if not all, factors into consideration) to evaluate UG transcripts. So an addendum drawing attention to something they are likely to ingore but could make them curious may backfire.

Posing a question in the Spivey thread is certainly in order.

BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?)
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:09 am

appind wrote:
BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?) wrote:Checking in. International UG. Engineer and MBA. Non traditional with almost six years of work exp, including entrepreneurial. LSAT -166, waiting for December score. Evaluation - superior for UG, AA for grad. Indian and hence non URM!

Good luck to all.

The JD foreign CAS eval only has my UG degree and don't have any eval for US grad degree.
where are you able to see AA evaluation for grad?


The AA is for their evaluation of my graduate school performance. Superior was the evaluation for my undergrad. Both are from non-American schools. Hope I could clarify!

stepney
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby stepney » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:16 am

Checking in. AA, 173, European, 5 or so years out of university.
Anyone in the states at the moment? Anyone manage to visit any of the places they applied to? I ain't.

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appind
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby appind » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:58 am

stepney wrote:Checking in. AA, 173, European, 5 or so years out of university.
Anyone in the states at the moment? Anyone manage to visit any of the places they applied to? I ain't.


in US but haven't visited any schools.

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RictusErectus
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby RictusErectus » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:13 am

Checking in.

LSAT: 172, LSAC evaluation: Superior.

Best of luck to all.

ChelseaZ
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby ChelseaZ » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:13 am

Checking in.
International. US college educated.
LSAT 175, LSAC GPA 3.98.
Blanketing most of t14.

Good luck to us all.

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freekick
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby freekick » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:10 am

Fellow reapplicants, the response to my questions in the Spivey thread could be of interest to you. (Pasting only the relevant part).
----

My Qs:
For reapplicants, do law schools look at the previous application while evaluating the second?
Other than a new LSAT score, resume and PS, is it safe to recycle everything else (LoRs, optional essays, addendum)?.

SC's Answer:
Most schools do have your previous application to review to see what has changed between your former application and this new one. Some of this changes will be your lsat or work experience (as well as their own applicant pool). But, I encourage you to provide a new PS as well as anything else you write - new optional essays etc. For LORs, if there is someone who can add something new (a new employer, for example) then you may want to update that as well.

Schools like to see that you have made an effort with the new application so you don't want to make it appear too "recycled" and you may be able to show a matured perspective with your updated essays.

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appind
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby appind » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:00 am

how are international UG applicants faring so far in this cycle?

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TAD
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby TAD » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:07 am

appind wrote:how are international UG applicants faring so far in this cycle?


Pree good. But Canadian, so I have a gpa.

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appind
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby appind » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:29 am

TAD wrote:
appind wrote:how are international UG applicants faring so far in this cycle?


Pree good. But Canadian, so I have a gpa.


canadian ug is probably not much different than US ug due to gpa

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freekick
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby freekick » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:27 am

Got my December score.
Given that I am neither contributing to or hurting GPA medians, are my reaches, targets and safeties purely LSAT driven?
Also, is not doing any optional essays fatal?
Last edited by freekick on Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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pleasesendhelp
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby pleasesendhelp » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:50 am

AA eval/170+ LSAT
Avg. Softs
Non-URM

Checking in

Anyone else worried about the super low number of internationally educated matriculates? I see maybe 2-5 unreported GPAs on T14 ABA 509 reports, meaning there's 28-70 spots for all of us :shock:

I may be wrong though. I'm not 100% sure that unreported GPA = internationally educated. Can anyone confirm?
Last edited by pleasesendhelp on Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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pleasesendhelp
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby pleasesendhelp » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:52 am

freekick wrote:Got my December score. I am going into the cycle with 171/Superior.
Given that I am neither contributing to or hurting GPA medians, are my reaches, targets and safeties purely LSAT driven?
Also, is not doing any optional essays fatal?


I think that's the general idea. No one knows for sure, but I've seen people say that:

Above Average = Median GPA

Superior = 75th+ GPA

Not fatal at all, but definitely helpful. I didn't do any except for schools that required it, and even then I kept it real short.
Last edited by pleasesendhelp on Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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freekick
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby freekick » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:57 am

pleasesendhelp wrote:170/AA eval
Avg. Softs
Non-URM

Checking in

Anyone else worried about the super low number of internationally educated matriculates? I see maybe 2-5 unreported GPAs on T14 ABA 509 reports, meaning there's 28-70 spots for all of us :shock:

I may be wrong though. I'm not 100% sure that unreported GPA = internationally educated. Can anyone confirm?


Another, and may be more reliable, head in the ABA reports to look at is 'non-resident alien'. though it is possible for these folks to have a US UG and thus a reportable GPA.

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pleasesendhelp
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby pleasesendhelp » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:58 am

freekick wrote:
pleasesendhelp wrote:170/AA eval
Avg. Softs
Non-URM

Checking in

Anyone else worried about the super low number of internationally educated matriculates? I see maybe 2-5 unreported GPAs on T14 ABA 509 reports, meaning there's 28-70 spots for all of us :shock:

I may be wrong though. I'm not 100% sure that unreported GPA = internationally educated. Can anyone confirm?


Another, and may be more reliable, head in the ABA reports to look at is 'non-resident alien'. though it is possible for these folks to have a US UG and thus a reportable GPA.


They need better labels. Seems law schools got around transparency issues with obscurity issues.

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freekick
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby freekick » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:14 am

pleasesendhelp wrote:
freekick wrote:Got my December score. I am going into the cycle with 171/Superior.
Given that I am neither contributing to or hurting GPA medians, are my reaches, targets and safeties purely LSAT driven?
Also, is not doing any optional essays fatal?


I think that's the general idea. No one knows for sure, but I've seen people say that:

Above Average = Median GPA

Superior = 75th+ GPA

Not fatal at all, but definitely helpful. I didn't do any except for schools that required it, and even then I kept it real short.


If that's what AA and S really mean, it is very good news.

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pleasesendhelp
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Re: International Applicants 2016-17 cycle

Postby pleasesendhelp » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:18 am

freekick wrote:
pleasesendhelp wrote:
freekick wrote:Got my December score. I am going into the cycle with 171/Superior.
Given that I am neither contributing to or hurting GPA medians, are my reaches, targets and safeties purely LSAT driven?
Also, is not doing any optional essays fatal?


I think that's the general idea. No one knows for sure, but I've seen people say that:

Above Average = Median GPA

Superior = 75th+ GPA

Not fatal at all, but definitely helpful. I didn't do any except for schools that required it, and even then I kept it real short.


If that's what AA and S really mean, it is very good news.


Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for! Still worried I have to compete with all the geniuses here. Seems like every internationally educated applicant and their mother got 170(+)




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