UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

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zot1

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby zot1 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:43 pm

Mikey947 wrote:
zot1 wrote:On the contrary, it speaks volumes about Irvine that it is doing so well that Berkeley wants part of it. In a way Dean C *is* leaving a young spouse for the cougar.


Mostly why UCI has had pretty decent number has been because Dean C has been able to pull strings. The fact that he is leaving is very concerning. UCI's numbers seemed very unsustainable even with Dean C as Dean (especially unsustainable if he leaves) because there are only so many jobs to go around in OC, not to mention the alumni network is minimal.

In the end, competition is stiff either way in the SoCal market because USC/UCLA/t13's will always dominate, so take this as you will


Dude, your statements are flat out wrong. I'm an alum, I know how things worked, I've stayed in touch with the community. But if you want to spread stuff you don't even have first-hand knowledge on, go on, bro.

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby BobBoblaw » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:05 pm

zot1 wrote:
Dude, your statements are flat out wrong. I'm an alum, I know how things worked, I've stayed in touch with the community. But if you want to spread stuff you don't even have first-hand knowledge on, go on, bro.


Not questioning this, but I'd be interested to hear if you think C leaving *wouldn't* affect clerkship placements and scholarly impact, and why. I'm not really gunning for a clerkship, but the scholarly impact is important to me, and I think C has been able to cultivate a really qualified faculty, but maybe I'm giving him too much credit and there is more institutional inertia than I know of. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Also, as an alumn, can you shed any light on the fairly high percentage of grads with school-funded positions?

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby zot1 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:21 pm

BobBoblaw wrote:
zot1 wrote:
Dude, your statements are flat out wrong. I'm an alum, I know how things worked, I've stayed in touch with the community. But if you want to spread stuff you don't even have first-hand knowledge on, go on, bro.


Not questioning this, but I'd be interested to hear if you think C leaving *wouldn't* affect clerkship placements and scholarly impact, and why. I'm not really gunning for a clerkship, but the scholarly impact is important to me, and I think C has been able to cultivate a really qualified faculty, but maybe I'm giving him too much credit and there is more institutional inertia than I know of. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Also, as an alumn, can you shed any light on the fairly high percentage of grads with school-funded positions?


Sure.

Clerkship Placements: Not every UCI student gets a clerkship via C. In reality, most students apply just like any other student does. If you've had C in your class, then yeah, you probably used him as a recommender, which I'm sure it helped. I think if you're borderline in GPA cutoff, then yeah, not having a C rec will harm your chances, but overall, many judges who've had UCI clerks want to have more UCI clerks. Since the class remains small, this can only benefit future students, despite the lack of C connection. So even though there might be a dip, I believe the dip will be small. UCI has plenty of gunners who want to clerk and it'll happen for them (assuming they have the grades).

Scholarly impact: C gets cited a lot, so without him, the scholarly impact will drop since citations accounts for that. However, the rest of the UCI is outstanding and publishes frequently. You can look this up yourself by going to the faculty pages. Further Irvine is a very desirable position, so I believe future faculty will continue to be attracted with or without C there.

School-funded positions: This is a mix of a lot of things. To begin with some employers who offer post-grad "clerkships" pay the school and then the school pays the student, which makes the position school-funded. I believe OCDA does this (EDIT: if the grad passes the bar, I believe this is when they get offered a full time position by OCDA). Also, the school offers fellowships for public interest minded folks who hasn't been able to secure a position yet, but needs the experience to get their foot on the door. As you might know, many PI places don't have funding to hire people right away, so this pipeline deal helps everyone. There is a lot of self-selection that goes into this as many UCI students want to do PI. And there are of course some students who don't get a job and use this as a provisional measure to get experience and a paycheck while they continue looking for a job.

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby estateplanning » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:54 am

zot1 wrote:
Mikey947 wrote:
zot1 wrote:On the contrary, it speaks volumes about Irvine that it is doing so well that Berkeley wants part of it. In a way Dean C *is* leaving a young spouse for the cougar.


Mostly why UCI has had pretty decent number has been because Dean C has been able to pull strings. The fact that he is leaving is very concerning. UCI's numbers seemed very unsustainable even with Dean C as Dean (especially unsustainable if he leaves) because there are only so many jobs to go around in OC, not to mention the alumni network is minimal.

In the end, competition is stiff either way in the SoCal market because USC/UCLA/t13's will always dominate, so take this as you will


Dude, your statements are flat out wrong. I'm an alum, I know how things worked, I've stayed in touch with the community. But if you want to spread stuff you don't even have first-hand knowledge on, go on, bro.


I have to second zot1, although I obviously don't have firsthand knowledge. But purely looking at UCI's numbers statistically, the UCI class size has increased every year (except for 1) and the numbers - including percentage of federal clerkships - has consistently been above 10%, which is really impressive. The job placement rate has also been pretty consistent. It seems they are very methodical about increasing class sizes. And the alumni network has always been minimal since it's a new school and placement numbers are still steady.

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby lawboundsomeday » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:56 pm

estateplanning wrote:
zot1 wrote:
Mikey947 wrote:
zot1 wrote:On the contrary, it speaks volumes about Irvine that it is doing so well that Berkeley wants part of it. In a way Dean C *is* leaving a young spouse for the cougar.


Mostly why UCI has had pretty decent number has been because Dean C has been able to pull strings. The fact that he is leaving is very concerning. UCI's numbers seemed very unsustainable even with Dean C as Dean (especially unsustainable if he leaves) because there are only so many jobs to go around in OC, not to mention the alumni network is minimal.

In the end, competition is stiff either way in the SoCal market because USC/UCLA/t13's will always dominate, so take this as you will


Dude, your statements are flat out wrong. I'm an alum, I know how things worked, I've stayed in touch with the community. But if you want to spread stuff you don't even have first-hand knowledge on, go on, bro.


I have to second zot1, although I obviously don't have firsthand knowledge. But purely looking at UCI's numbers statistically, the UCI class size has increased every year (except for 1) and the numbers - including percentage of federal clerkships - has consistently been above 10%, which is really impressive. The job placement rate has also been pretty consistent. It seems they are very methodical about increasing class sizes. And the alumni network has always been minimal since it's a new school and placement numbers are still steady.



I don't think it's all about Dean C -- but he is super well known and has a major major judge network. and if you don't think that's part of what has helped his students, I think you are kidding yourself. And if he goes to Berkeley, he will be pulling those strings for them, not UCI. It will hurt -- and it would be worse than him just stepping down or doing something different, because he will be actively working on behalf of NON-UCI students. . I don't mean that things will fall apart or anything, but it will be a big loss for the school.

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby estateplanning » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:26 pm

lawboundsomeday wrote:
estateplanning wrote:
zot1 wrote:
Mikey947 wrote:
zot1 wrote:On the contrary, it speaks volumes about Irvine that it is doing so well that Berkeley wants part of it. In a way Dean C *is* leaving a young spouse for the cougar.


Mostly why UCI has had pretty decent number has been because Dean C has been able to pull strings. The fact that he is leaving is very concerning. UCI's numbers seemed very unsustainable even with Dean C as Dean (especially unsustainable if he leaves) because there are only so many jobs to go around in OC, not to mention the alumni network is minimal.

In the end, competition is stiff either way in the SoCal market because USC/UCLA/t13's will always dominate, so take this as you will


Dude, your statements are flat out wrong. I'm an alum, I know how things worked, I've stayed in touch with the community. But if you want to spread stuff you don't even have first-hand knowledge on, go on, bro.


I have to second zot1, although I obviously don't have firsthand knowledge. But purely looking at UCI's numbers statistically, the UCI class size has increased every year (except for 1) and the numbers - including percentage of federal clerkships - has consistently been above 10%, which is really impressive. The job placement rate has also been pretty consistent. It seems they are very methodical about increasing class sizes. And the alumni network has always been minimal since it's a new school and placement numbers are still steady.



I don't think it's all about Dean C -- but he is super well known and has a major major judge network. and if you don't think that's part of what has helped his students, I think you are kidding yourself. And if he goes to Berkeley, he will be pulling those strings for them, not UCI. It will hurt -- and it would be worse than him just stepping down or doing something different, because he will be actively working on behalf of NON-UCI students. . I don't mean that things will fall apart or anything, but it will be a big loss for the school.


I don't disagree with you. I think Dean C would be a very big loss, and I'm very concerned. My previous post did not mention Dean C at all; it was to second zot1's response to Mikey's assertion that UCI numbers are unsustainable with or without Dean C. I've heard that assertion many times, and that's simply not been the case statistically.

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby abcdefg1234567 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:43 pm

adidasz wrote:
estateplanning wrote:
yeezytaughtme wrote:
estateplanning wrote:
zot1 wrote:
yeezytaughtme wrote:I wonder if Dean C leaving will be addressed at the Admitted Students Event next weekend.


Even if no one is addressing it, ask about it. You're the consumer. Make sure your purchase is solid.


will definitely be asking about it, and interested in what he'll say for welcome remarks (assuming that he'll still be there)


You gonna ask personally, or will you be asking aloud during one of the information sessions?


Will try to ask personally, but will ask aloud if it's necessary. Will also be asking around to see if current students have more information and what they think about it.


Well please share with us what you learn! I'm far too much of a pussy to ask that question, either aloud or one on one.


This is not good news. I personally have my sights set on clerking and know that he plays a vital role in placements. That may have changed by now as I'm sure UCI grads have built a certain reputation for themselves among judges by now. In any case, I'll be sending an email to Dean Austin tomorrow to express concern and ask for some more information. Il'l let everyone know know what the response is.

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby adidasz » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:35 pm

abcdefg1234567 wrote:
adidasz wrote:
estateplanning wrote:
yeezytaughtme wrote:
estateplanning wrote:
zot1 wrote:
yeezytaughtme wrote:I wonder if Dean C leaving will be addressed at the Admitted Students Event next weekend.


Even if no one is addressing it, ask about it. You're the consumer. Make sure your purchase is solid.


will definitely be asking about it, and interested in what he'll say for welcome remarks (assuming that he'll still be there)


You gonna ask personally, or will you be asking aloud during one of the information sessions?


Will try to ask personally, but will ask aloud if it's necessary. Will also be asking around to see if current students have more information and what they think about it.


Well please share with us what you learn! I'm far too much of a pussy to ask that question, either aloud or one on one.


This is not good news. I personally have my sights set on clerking and know that he plays a vital role in placements. That may have changed by now as I'm sure UCI grads have built a certain reputation for themselves among judges by now. In any case, I'll be sending an email to Dean Austin tomorrow to express concern and ask for some more information. Il'l let everyone know know what the response is.


Can you please PM me Dean Austin's response? :)

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby ktbee » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:00 pm

Current UCI student here. I strongly encourage you to talk to current students/alum/faculty and ask them any questions you may have. You will certainly get better answers from us than other 0Ls. Admissions is also really good about connecting you with people that can answer your question (we have a whole system in place for it).
That being said, I will be at ASW and will do my best to give candid answers/advice. PM me if you have any immediate questions.

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby UCIpost » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:22 pm

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby zot1 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:50 pm

I stopped reading after the assumption Dean C leaving would be a let down for the alumni. That's ridiculous. 0Ls guessing crap is just getting annoying at this point. Definitely don't guess for the alumni. We have a strong network, and despite what you might think, we don't get together and light candles for Dean C and pray for his health. There are more things to UCI than the Dean.

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby crystallize » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:59 pm

zot1 wrote:I stopped reading after the assumption Dean C leaving would be a let down for the alumni. That's ridiculous. 0Ls guessing crap is just getting annoying at this point. Definitely don't guess for the alumni. We have a strong network, and despite what you might think, we don't get together and light candles for Dean C and pray for his health. There are more things to UCI than the Dean.


Current 1L and just wanted to add my two cents that there are definitely more things to UCI than Dean C (as wonderful as he is). The faculty's outstanding and two of my current professors have a direct hand in writing the new restatements for their respective fields (this is a big deal 0Ls). It's a rare opportunity to learn a subject from the person who wrote the casebook that law schools across the country use. With that said, we don't know if Dean C will be offered the new Dean position at Berkeley Law. The other two contenders are the current deans at UCLA and at Northwestern (so we've heard) so Berkeley has fine choices to pick from. They are the three finalists out of who knows how many contenders after all.

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby UCIpost » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:06 pm

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby zot1 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:14 pm

UCIpost wrote:
zot1 wrote:I stopped reading after the assumption Dean C leaving would be a let down for the alumni. That's ridiculous. 0Ls guessing crap is just getting annoying at this point. Definitely don't guess for the alumni. We have a strong network, and despite what you might think, we don't get together and light candles for Dean C and pray for his health. There are more things to UCI than the Dean.


Spoke to a UCI law grad from a few years ago early today, who said "it would be disappointing if he left". Obviously everyone within the community would react to it differently and making a huge assumption for the group as a whole is maybe unfair. I shouldn't have written "really big letdown" but I still believe if I was in that situation, I could see myself thinking "ehh that's too bad".

I was definitely not trying to start an argument with my post and am sorry if I offended you!


You're not offending me. You're simply providing a disservice to others with misinformation. You spoke to one grad a few years ago and decided to generalize. I speak with my alumni peers almost on a daily basis. Would it be disappointing? Sure. Are we all mature enough to understand he wasn't gonna be around forever? Definitely. Will his absence (which is still not certain) change how we view the school? No. That's still a ridiculous assumption. If anything, it might push alumni to get even more engaged.

This isn't about starting argument. It's more about 0Ls posting stuff they know nothing about. Not just in this thread but others too.

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby UCIpost » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:25 pm

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby zot1 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:30 pm

UCIpost wrote:
zot1 wrote:
UCIpost wrote:
zot1 wrote:I stopped reading after the assumption Dean C leaving would be a let down for the alumni. That's ridiculous. 0Ls guessing crap is just getting annoying at this point. Definitely don't guess for the alumni. We have a strong network, and despite what you might think, we don't get together and light candles for Dean C and pray for his health. There are more things to UCI than the Dean.


Spoke to a UCI law grad from a few years ago early today, who said "it would be disappointing if he left". Obviously everyone within the community would react to it differently and making a huge assumption for the group as a whole is maybe unfair. I shouldn't have written "really big letdown" but I still believe if I was in that situation, I could see myself thinking "ehh that's too bad".

I was definitely not trying to start an argument with my post and am sorry if I offended you!


You're not offending me. You're simply providing a disservice to others with misinformation. You spoke to one grad a few years ago and decided to generalize. I speak with my alumni peers almost on a daily basis. Would it be disappointing? Sure. Are we all mature enough to understand he wasn't gonna be around forever? Definitely. Will his absence (which is still not certain) change how we view the school? No. That's still a ridiculous assumption. If anything, it might push alumni to get even more engaged.

This isn't about starting argument. It's more about 0Ls posting stuff they know nothing about. Not just in this thread but others too.


Just because I didn't graduate from the school does not mean I can't have a cogent thought about the impact of him leaving. There is no need to be rude and completely discount what I have written as misinformation. I am not going to be posting here anymore and believe I have properly expressed my thoughts on the matter.

If you really want to help 0Ls reading this board, go through my post and comment on the things you find to be unfound. Just saying "oh it is a 0L ignore everything they have said", from my perspective, is a pretty useless criticism. But, hey, to each their own.


I had a problem with one of your arguments. I explained why that argument made no sense. I did exactly what you're saying I haven't done. I don't want to read the rest of your points because your credibility to me was shot the moment you made that comment about alumni (which I said in my original post).

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby lawboundsomeday » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:53 pm

UCIpost wrote:Constant lurker, first time poster! Fellow 0L, so as always, take everything I say with a grain of salt!

Damn that's a bummer about Chemerinsky. From all the research I've done, it definitely seemed that he wasn't going to be sticking around much longer as dean anyways (I think his contract is up next year and there was a lot of talk at the ASW last year about him taking a sabbatial and stepping down to a more limited role on the UCI faculty after his 10 years were up). From what I gauged tho, it seemed like his plans were more geared to phasing into retirement. The fact that he's seriously considering becoming Dean at UCB definitely makes me reevaluate some of the stuff I read. IIRC I did see in an interview he gave that he was thinking about sticking around as Dean for a few years after his contract to help the fundraising effort to get the new law school building built. Hopefully prospective students will get a good idea on his intentions before the SIR in a few weeks. Unfortunately I am of the belief that Chemerinsky going from UCI to UCB is definitely problematic for the school going forward. While I don't think saying UCI is a sinking ship if this were to happen would be an accurate assessment, there is no doubt that Dean Chemerinsky is the definitive face of UCI law (IMO more so than any other Dean for their respective institution).

Pure speculation, but him leaving UCI completely could potentially have a few different adverse effects.

1) I think it has the potential to have a non-neglible impact on fundraising by the school (especially with the plans for getting construction on that shiny new law building under way).

2) I think within the alumni/legal community surrounding UCI this could really be a big letdown. A lot of UCI law grads/students I have spoken to in the past are really prideful of their school and this could maybe detract from the overall sentiment certain people have toward the school (particularly those that are already somewhat disengaged).

3) As someone who lives in Southern California (LAC) and for work has to travel around California and other parts of the west coast, a lot of the what is known about UCI law within this region is wrapped up in the general recognition of Dean Chemerinsky (as well as it being a new law school). For the lawyers/governmenal/political/other people who have a general understanding of legal education/the profession/legal community, I have spoken to (mostly in CA) and brought up UCI law in conversation with, a mention of Dean Chemerinsky is usually quick to follow (purely anecdotal, I know). As UCI grows and tries to expand its reach within California and the surrounding states, I feel that losing Chemerinsky will have an impact on the way the school is viewed by those that have the most basic understanding of it (i.e. not much). How much of an impact this might have, I do not know, but I feel that losing some of that cache in networking situations outside of Orange County isn't great.

4) Not only does the school lose Chemerinsky as a Dean, it also loses him as a professor. From what I've heard his con law class is really great and just talking to him in general is really interesting (pretty sure he used to do/does an individual dinner with each UCI law student and overall seems really engaged with the student body). Also if he were to move up north, I would think, his wife professor Catherine Fisk would go with him (again pure speculation as I know nothing about them personally, their marriage or professor Fisk's goals in general). From everything I've heard Professor Fisk is one of the best legal minds in the country and losing her as a professor and a scholar would be a huge loss for the University. I did have the glancing thought that maybe Professor Fisk would become the next Dean of UCI, which IMO would be amazing and a great choice, but it does seem a tad unrealistic just in the sense that proglonged stays away from a SO, at least from what I have experienced, are really tough.

5) Similar to 4, but it kind of seems that Chemerinsky leaving might reverbate through the faculty as a whole. Not saying every professor is going to jump ship/leave immeaditely, but I could definitely see some of the more known members of the faculty being more susceptible to moves than had Chermerinsky remained a member of the staff post stepping down from being dean. I have kind of gotten the sense that the faculty are really strongly connected to the school and each other, and him leaving is kind of similar to an integral member of a friend group moving to a different city as they grow older leading to an overall sense of disconnection within the group (kind of prosperous I know, but as someone who has recently gone through this, I vaguely see the parallels, but who knows!)

6) I never thought the clerkship placement was sustainable in the long term to begin with, and I do think that those 2-3 (maybe more, maybe less, I truly have no idea) students Chemerinsky might have been extremely influential in securing clerkships for will now be lost to Berkeley (who already have a pretty big leg up). IIRC it is something like 13-16 grads have gotten fed clerkships each year in past classes, so maybe a long term number for clerks/class might be closer to something like 10 a year. With the assumption that UCI gradually increases its class from ~140 to ~200 the overall percent seems to make sense in terms of UCI's peer schools.


Sorry for the very long winded post, but seeing this new info this afternoon, I really needed to work through some of these thoughts/feelings (in the bare amount, for my own sanity!) Who knows of any of this comes to fruition, and I definitely think interviewing/considering a job change is much different than actually committing to one. But as someone is very seriously considering attending UCI law next fall, it has deffinitely given me a lot to think about.



I don't agree with all you say but I think you have made some good points here. He wasn't gonna stick around much longer as dean anyway, but if he goes to Berkeley, I think I share your sense that it's way worse for the school than him retiring or going back to being a full time teacher or even going to some completely different kind of job. It's not so much that I think 'wow, he'll be super duper at Berkeley if he ends up there,' I really have no idea about that. He is really well known and at Irvine it seems like that was a big giant plus for the brand new school. Berkeley has a bunch of well known people and is well-established (though kinda in trouble now, at least in a T-14 kinda way) and having a famous-for-law-professor dean might be good for them but might not be so good, I really have no idea. But Irvine without him is likely to wobble, maybe a little, maybe a lot. And there's something kind of sad about building a school, getting it established, and then going off to a sister school that mostly has going for it that it's already higher ranked. Maybe the alums and community and students and potential donors will say 'hooray, look how great our dean is, even berkeley wanted him.' But I kinda think not. I think it will feel to some of those alums and community members and students and donors like a betrayal. Maybe that will make them band together and be even more loyal to the school. But I wouldn't bet on that. Anyway, your posting made me think about this stuff in more detail than I had before. so thanks for that.

(Not relevant for me personally, at least not this minute. I've pretty much 90 percent decided I'm gonna wait another year for law school anyway.)

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby charles117 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:04 pm

UCIpost wrote:Constant lurker, first time poster! Fellow 0L, so as always, take everything I say with a grain of salt!

Damn that's a bummer about Chemerinsky. From all the research I've done, it definitely seemed that he wasn't going to be sticking around much longer as dean anyways (I think his contract is up next year and there was a lot of talk at the ASW last year about him taking a sabbatial and stepping down to a more limited role on the UCI faculty after his 10 years were up). From what I gauged tho, it seemed like his plans were more geared to phasing into retirement. The fact that he's seriously considering becoming Dean at UCB definitely makes me reevaluate some of the stuff I read. IIRC I did see in an interview he gave that he was thinking about sticking around as Dean for a few years after his contract to help the fundraising effort to get the new law school building built. Hopefully prospective students will get a good idea on his intentions before the SIR in a few weeks. Unfortunately I am of the belief that Chemerinsky going from UCI to UCB is definitely problematic for the school going forward. While I don't think saying UCI is a sinking ship if this were to happen would be an accurate assessment, there is no doubt that Dean Chemerinsky is the definitive face of UCI law (IMO more so than any other Dean for their respective institution).

Pure speculation, but him leaving UCI completely could potentially have a few different adverse effects.

1) I think it has the potential to have a non-neglible impact on fundraising by the school (especially with the plans for getting construction on that shiny new law building under way).

2) I think within the alumni/legal community surrounding UCI this could really be a big letdown. A lot of UCI law grads/students I have spoken to in the past are really prideful of their school and this could maybe detract from the overall sentiment certain people have toward the school (particularly those that are already somewhat disengaged).

3) As someone who lives in Southern California (LAC) and for work has to travel around California and other parts of the west coast, a lot of the what is known about UCI law within this region is wrapped up in the general recognition of Dean Chemerinsky (as well as it being a new law school). For the lawyers/governmenal/political/other people who have a general understanding of legal education/the profession/legal community, I have spoken to (mostly in CA) and brought up UCI law in conversation with, a mention of Dean Chemerinsky is usually quick to follow (purely anecdotal, I know). As UCI grows and tries to expand its reach within California and the surrounding states, I feel that losing Chemerinsky will have an impact on the way the school is viewed by those that have the most basic understanding of it (i.e. not much). How much of an impact this might have, I do not know, but I feel that losing some of that cache in networking situations outside of Orange County isn't great.

4) Not only does the school lose Chemerinsky as a Dean, it also loses him as a professor. From what I've heard his con law class is really great and just talking to him in general is really interesting (pretty sure he used to do/does an individual dinner with each UCI law student and overall seems really engaged with the student body). Also if he were to move up north, I would think, his wife professor Catherine Fisk would go with him (again pure speculation as I know nothing about them personally, their marriage or professor Fisk's goals in general). From everything I've heard Professor Fisk is one of the best legal minds in the country and losing her as a professor and a scholar would be a huge loss for the University. I did have the glancing thought that maybe Professor Fisk would become the next Dean of UCI, which IMO would be amazing and a great choice, but it does seem a tad unrealistic just in the sense that proglonged stays away from a SO, at least from what I have experienced, are really tough.

5) Similar to 4, but it kind of seems that Chemerinsky leaving might reverbate through the faculty as a whole. Not saying every professor is going to jump ship/leave immeaditely, but I could definitely see some of the more known members of the faculty being more susceptible to moves than had Chermerinsky remained a member of the staff post stepping down from being dean. I have kind of gotten the sense that the faculty are really strongly connected to the school and each other, and him leaving is kind of similar to an integral member of a friend group moving to a different city as they grow older leading to an overall sense of disconnection within the group (kind of prosperous I know, but as someone who has recently gone through this, I vaguely see the parallels, but who knows!)

6) I never thought the clerkship placement was sustainable in the long term to begin with, and I do think that those 2-3 (maybe more, maybe less, I truly have no idea) students Chemerinsky might have been extremely influential in securing clerkships for will now be lost to Berkeley (who already have a pretty big leg up). IIRC it is something like 13-16 grads have gotten fed clerkships each year in past classes, so maybe a long term number for clerks/class might be closer to something like 10 a year. With the assumption that UCI gradually increases its class from ~140 to ~200 the overall percent seems to make sense in terms of UCI's peer schools.


Sorry for the very long winded post, but seeing this new info this afternoon, I really needed to work through some of these thoughts/feelings (in the bare amount, for my own sanity!) Who knows of any of this comes to fruition, and I definitely think interviewing/considering a job change is much different than actually committing to one. But as someone is very seriously considering attending UCI law next fall, it has deffinitely given me a lot to think about.


thanks for your thoughts, I do agree that the school's ranking/prestige/job placement is volatile since it is so new and dependent on the deans reputation. that is a risk with picking a non established law school vs a 100+ yr old law school or even a law school established in the last 50 years

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby UCIpost » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:02 pm

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Last edited by UCIpost on Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

abcdefg1234567

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby abcdefg1234567 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:10 pm

Got a response from Dean A. Not exactly what I was hoping for.

Confirmed C is one of three finalists. PM me for details.
Last edited by abcdefg1234567 on Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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charles117

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby charles117 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:45 pm

im very curious on davis vs irvine long term. I think davis' usnwr ranking drop is a temporary fluctuation and it should be established enough to stay in the top 30. Irvine on the other hand just about 10 years old and dependent on its dean.

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby adidasz » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:58 pm

charles117 wrote:im very curious on davis vs irvine long term. I think davis' usnwr ranking drop is a temporary fluctuation and it should be established enough to stay in the top 30. Irvine on the other hand just about 10 years old and dependent on its dean.


What makes you say that UCI is dependent on its dean?

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charles117

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby charles117 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:07 pm

adidasz wrote:
charles117 wrote:im very curious on davis vs irvine long term. I think davis' usnwr ranking drop is a temporary fluctuation and it should be established enough to stay in the top 30. Irvine on the other hand just about 10 years old and dependent on its dean.


What makes you say that UCI is dependent on its dean?

you mean besides the fact that the school is not even ten years old yet? almost every article I have read on the school (promotional or otherwise) has credited the dean with a substantial if not the lions share of the credit for the school's leadership and success. While I didn't suggest that the school is wholly dependent on the dean's leadership, Its not unreasonable to think that a new school's reputation and student outcomes maybe volatile even up until it has been established for 30+ years.

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zot1

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby zot1 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:26 pm

charles117 wrote:
adidasz wrote:
charles117 wrote:im very curious on davis vs irvine long term. I think davis' usnwr ranking drop is a temporary fluctuation and it should be established enough to stay in the top 30. Irvine on the other hand just about 10 years old and dependent on its dean.


What makes you say that UCI is dependent on its dean?

you mean besides the fact that the school is not even ten years old yet? almost every article I have read on the school (promotional or otherwise) has credited the dean with a substantial if not the lions share of the credit for the school's leadership and success. While I didn't suggest that the school is wholly dependent on the dean's leadership, Its not unreasonable to think that a new school's reputation and student outcomes maybe volatile even up until it has been established for 30+ years.


Employers generally hire UCI students because of location, school prestige, and resume (GPA + any unique stuff). My agency doesn't even know who Chemerinsky is... and I haven't had a reason to bring up his name other than in this forum recently and when speaking with a law student from GTTT who had used his treatise for a class.

I respect and admire Dean C, but UCI will be just fine without him. We are not talking about an almost 10 yr old school that has been having trouble climbing up the ladder. We are talking about a school that ranked in the top 30 in its first rank ever. The school has also posted consistently good numbers in employment.

But if he actually leaves (he hasn't even been offered yet), and that bothers you enough, then don't go to UCI. Law school is a big commitment, and you should feel good about your decision whatever that may be.

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Re: UC Irvine c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby kingwhereofis » Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:24 am

Current UCI 1L checking in. I knew the Dean would be stepping down at some point during my 3 years here when I accepted UCI's offer. It disappointed me at the time but I was so impressed by the school at the time that it didn't matter to me.

Now having actually been a part of the school, I can say it troubles me even less. He's undoubtedly an amazing teacher for those lucky enough to get him for Con Law (he seriously gets perfect student evaluations every year), but our school's "dependence" on him is pretty much a fiction.

We operate every bit as efficiently as the more established law schools now, and like every other law school out there the world doesn't come crashing down just because of a change in Dean. Moreover, even if the Dean's reputation helped us get our foot in the door, our ranking and employment statistics are the product of hard work from every student and faculty member here. Personally, I landed my dream job for the summer, and I certainly didn't get it because Dean Chemerinsky dropped my name for me. :)



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