onecallthats all wrote:Do UNC grads struggle competing against Duke Grads? Or are they competing for different markets? (Duke ==>NYC, UNC ==> Raleigh)
And what do people think about their slight drop in grads going to law firms 100+? 2015, they sent 22%, 2016, they sent 19%? Is that negligible?
Not trying to offend anybody or step on toes, I have deposited! Just curious to see if anybody else has these concerns?
I picked UNC over 114k* from Duke wanting to stay in NC if that's any indication. The slight bump Duke may give you for NC firms is more than mitigated, in my opinion, by how you will more likely be lower in your class at Duke. You can check out young associates at firms you are interested in to see their backgrounds. I'd say most NC firms interview at Wake Duke UNC and Virginia and various other places - what I have been told by people at those firms is that once a firm is interviewing at your school, your school is good enough and then you will be looked at compared to people at your school. Many partners at firms here went to UNC or Wake, they aren't going to discount themselves by discounting the schools they went to. Most people I talked to recommended going to UNC if you were sure about staying in NC, but Duke if unsure but knew you wanted to do biglaw. There is also a concern, unfair as it may be, that a Duke student is using NC firms as backup if they don't get biglaw in a bigger city. That can be mitigated with ties but when I was applying even native North Carolinians at Duke were having trouble getting over that presumption. I think Duke probably providesa bump for the satellite offices of national firms and Charlotte in general and less of a bump for NC firms, particularly those not in Charlotte. The NC-based firms in Charlotte I can't really say one way or another.
That being said some people at Duke stay in NC, particularly those who do well and have ties. For wanting to work at a bigger NC firm, you have to do well at UNC too. UNC in 2015 had 16 go to NY, probably mostly in biglaw and some NY firms come interview and had a million stay in NC (though definitely not a ton at these kinds of bigger NC firms). Duke had a million go to NY I'm sure, and its 2016 509 has 18 NC takers. So it's kind of inverse. Don't buy the argument that Duke self selects NY and could get NC easily - NC firms are just hard to get from wherever. I think UNC gives you the best shot but also more downside risk, Duke gives you the upside of biglaw in NY with a lot of debt (if you don't get a scholarship) if you don't get NC - that never seemed like much of an upside to me though.
As to the differential, 2014 was 18.9% i think, so just kind of bounces around in there. In 2016 4 people went to firms of unknown size, and if even a couple of those went to 100+ you'd be back above 20%. In 2015 only 1 was unknown size. With a relatively low tuition and huge public interest focus, a lot of people just aren't really interested in the big firms - though I don't know how much that plays into the numbers.
It's definitely something interesting to watch, though. Dean Brinkley has reinvigorated the opportunities geared towards firm work here - with new transactional classes, bringing in lawyers adjunct-taught classes, and the like. He even teaches a life cycle of the M&A deal course now that is really popular. He was a partner at Smith Anderson in Raleigh before coming over. He only started in the summer of 2015, so it will be interesting to watch the impact of his position on OCI because anyone graduating in 2016 did OCIs before he got the position. I imagine the impact of having someone who practiced at such a high level will be a very beneficial one.