Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.

Next JS2 wave(s) will be...

Monday 3/27
2
2%
Tuesday 3/28
17
16%
Wednesday 3/29
35
33%
Thursday 3/30
13
12%
Friday 3/31
29
27%
Saturday 4/1
10
9%
 
Total votes: 106

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unrelated
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby unrelated » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:50 pm

Pozzo wrote:
seeprybyrun wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Pozzo wrote:
unrelated wrote:
acz26 wrote:
Rigo wrote:Harvard clerking numbers aren't even that much better than Virginia so I don't think that'd be worth the money at all.

16% v. 19%

Compared to 26% for S and 34% for Y



Where are you getting these numbers from...Stanford posts 35% on its website, and Yale has about 40% on its website, I believe. Harvard's is also higher


Aren't clerkship percentages kinda pointless unless class size is also taken into account? 16% of Harvard class and 19% of UVA class are both higher total numbers than S and Y.

Opposite, actually. Raw numbers don't mean much unless class size is taken into account.

Some lawyers can do math, I swear!


I'm curious what percentage of the class in each of these schools applies for clerkships. If 60% of Yale grads apply but only 40% get one, that's as good as 45% of Harvard grads applying and 15% getting one.

Not sure that data is readily available, so outcomes is all we really have to go on. You might be able to get some anecdata over on the clerkship board or the HLS/YLS threads "Ask a Law Student" board.

And if my math is right (which it may not be--it's been a long week), it would actually be more like 60% applied/40% successful and 45% applied/30% successful.

e: FWIW, there is data on the per capita placement and overall placement for Supreme Court Clerks here. Harvard and Yale have placed almost the same number of SCCs over the 10 year period, but the per capita rate is much higher for Y due to its small size. S's per capita rate is on par with H.


Yeah I think the quality of clerkships argument is much more compelling than % or class size alone (or even together for that matter) if you're looking to pick a school based on clerkship opportunity.

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Rigo
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:57 pm

unrelated wrote:Yeah I think the quality of clerkships argument is much more compelling than % or class size alone (or even together for that matter) if you're looking to pick a school based on clerkship opportunity.

You don't just GET a SCOTUS clerkship though out of school. You clerk for at least a couple years generally with a feeder judge and apply your way up the chain. Sure all three schools could get you a clerkship but it's all around easier at S & Y simply because the small class sizes help to foster a closer professor-student relationship that is essential for landing clerkships.

It's silly to imply that any A3 clerkship is low quality too.

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Pozzo
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Pozzo » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Rigo wrote:
unrelated wrote:Yeah I think the quality of clerkships argument is much more compelling than % or class size alone (or even together for that matter) if you're looking to pick a school based on clerkship opportunity.

You don't just GET a SCOTUS clerkship though out of school. You clerk for at least a couple years generally with a feeder judge and apply your way up the chain. Sure all three schools could get you a clerkship but it's all around easier at S & Y simply because the small class sizes help to foster a closer professor-student relationship that is essential for landing clerkships.

The SCOTUS clerks have by and large clerked before, but there is some proxy value here because these are the people getting placed into the types of clerkships that make SCOTUS a possibility down the road.

Anyhow, for the sake of the rest of the waiters, we should probably move this convo elsewhere, so anyone sub'd to this thread isn't panicking every time there's a notification.

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Rigo
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:00 pm

The only reason I brought this up was for the poster who asked a quasi-choosing question.
I said that H clerkship chances are only 3% better than at UVA so to take the Dillard and run.
Maybe ride out S or Y waitlists. Hell, ride out H waitlist too!
I was just simply stating clerkship likelihood.

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Rigo
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:01 pm

Pozzo wrote:Anyhow, for the sake of the rest of the waiters, we should probably move this convo elsewhere, so anyone sub'd to this thread isn't panicking every time there's a notification.

True true.

TLS protip: don't subscribe. Simply use the "view your posts" tab for updates. No push notification type mess.
Last edited by Rigo on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:03 pm

Rigo wrote:The only reason I brought this up was for the poster who asked a quasi-choosing question.
I said that H clerkship chances are only 3% better than at UVA so to take the Dillard and run.
Maybe ride out S or Y waitlists. Hell, ride out H waitlist too!
I was just simply stating clerkship likelihood.


Hmmm could it also be self-selection though? No doubt that you're fine at UVA if you want a clerkship but idk if "clerkship chances are only 3% better" at HLS haha

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Rigo
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:05 pm

Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:
Rigo wrote:The only reason I brought this up was for the poster who asked a quasi-choosing question.
I said that H clerkship chances are only 3% better than at UVA so to take the Dillard and run.
Maybe ride out S or Y waitlists. Hell, ride out H waitlist too!
I was just simply stating clerkship likelihood.


Hmmm could it also be self-selection though? No doubt that you're fine at UVA if you want a clerkship but idk if "clerkship chances are only 3% better" at HLS haha

Idk why Harvard students would especially self select out of clerking since it's known for prestige whores.
But it's all speculation and therefore fruitless to debate here and now. Make a thread!

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Pozzo
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Pozzo » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:58 pm

Rigo wrote:The only reason I brought this up was for the poster who asked a quasi-choosing question.
I said that H clerkship chances are only 3% better than at UVA so to take the Dillard and run.
Maybe ride out S or Y waitlists. Hell, ride out H waitlist too!
I was just simply stating clerkship likelihood.

Yep, I fault only myself for pushing it so off course. Dillard over H at sticker is sage advice.

gwillygecko
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby gwillygecko » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:14 pm

Most likely self selection. Harvard has a lot more people in the lst reports listed as taking a public interest job than uva, for example.

Rigo wrote:
Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:
Rigo wrote:The only reason I brought this up was for the poster who asked a quasi-choosing question.
I said that H clerkship chances are only 3% better than at UVA so to take the Dillard and run.
Maybe ride out S or Y waitlists. Hell, ride out H waitlist too!
I was just simply stating clerkship likelihood.


Hmmm could it also be self-selection though? No doubt that you're fine at UVA if you want a clerkship but idk if "clerkship chances are only 3% better" at HLS haha

Idk why Harvard students would especially self select out of clerking since it's known for prestige whores.
But it's all speculation and therefore fruitless to debate here and now. Make a thread!


something somthing heterogeneous preferences

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Rigo
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:57 pm

gwillygecko wrote:Most likely self selection. Harvard has a lot more people in the lst reports listed as taking a public interest job than uva, for example.

If we're counting govt jobs as PI, then barely.

All things equal or even close, go Harvard all the way.
But it's kind of silly to give up a Dillard if goals are maybe clerking then biglaw and you're debt financing.
This is discussed ad nauseum in nearly every high stat choosing thread though.

I envy the full scholly people.

gwillygecko
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby gwillygecko » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:22 pm

govt jobs arent public interest IMO, but i agree with the larger point!

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Rigo
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:29 pm

gwillygecko wrote:govt jobs arent public interest IMO, but i agree with the larger point!

:( but but but I wanna serve the public!

Pyrex
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Pyrex » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:57 pm

Just to confirm, is it over? Everyone WL or dinged? Or still some people waiting to hear back?

ZVBXRPL
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby ZVBXRPL » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:27 am

Mid 160s. 3.9 What are my chances off WL? LSN doesn't look good. Why do they WL ppl with my stats? Any chance at admit?

PLS DONT QUOTE!

enoca
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby enoca » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:52 am

For a broad look at your numbers, from the 2014 compilation thread:

• During the past three cycles, 80 applicants on LSN below that cycle’s LSAT median and at/above that cycle’s GPA median were straight admits while 102 were waitlisted. Of those waitlisted applicants, 18 withdrew from the waitlist and 24 were eventually admitted (28.6% staying on waitlist were admitted).

That said, I can't find any LSN examples in the three most recent cycles of any confirmed waitlists acceptances below 170 (except URM). On the other hand, high LSAT apps are down this year, so who knows how predictive past cycles are, or what happened outside of LSN (or if people just didn't update).

TL,DR: Who knows
Last edited by enoca on Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

eck456
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby eck456 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:56 am

enoca wrote:For a broad look at your numbers, from the 2014 compilation thread:

• During the past three cycles, 80 applicants on LSN below that cycle’s LSAT median and at/above that cycle’s GPA median were straight admits while 102 were waitlisted. Of those waitlisted applicants, 18 withdrew from the waitlist and 24 were eventually admitted (28.6% staying on waitlist were admitted).

That said, I can't find any LSN examples in the three most recent cycles of any confirmed waitlists acceptances below 170 (except URM). On the other hand, high LSAT apps are down this year, so who knows how predictive past cycles are, or what happened outside of LSN.

TL,DR: Who knows


I know of a 167 who was accepted off of WL last year. Lots of we and softs though and I don't know about gpa

enoca
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby enoca » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:59 am

Yeah, it's almost surely possible. Don't let your dreams die just yet.

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seeprybyrun
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby seeprybyrun » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:59 am

It seems like there's a past trend of slightly favoring reverse splitters (the one with higher GPA) for admissions off the WL over regular splitters (higher LSAT).

camelbak
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby camelbak » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:06 pm

when are the ASWs?

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hammy393
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby hammy393 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:04 pm

URM who got a js1 but ultimately WL'd. Withdrawing. Good luck to everyone else on the WL!

kamy123
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby kamy123 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:24 pm

Waitlisted.
What are your thoughts on mentioning in the LOCI that I'll be retaking the June LSAT to improve my score?

LHS17
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby LHS17 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:29 pm

kamy123 wrote:Waitlisted.
What are your thoughts on mentioning in the LOCI that I'll be retaking the June LSAT to improve my score?


I think you're setting yourself up for a major negative if you don't improve materially. I would focus on other material updates, if possible. You can always report a better score when you get it.

tartan2016
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby tartan2016 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:36 pm

Those of you who are waitlisted and opted in, did you get a confirmation email?

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meeseeks
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby meeseeks » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:40 pm

tartan2016 wrote:Those of you who are waitlisted and opted in, did you get a confirmation email?


I did not.

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Rigo
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:44 pm

Mr. Meeseeks wrote:
tartan2016 wrote:Those of you who are waitlisted and opted in, did you get a confirmation email?

I did not.

Me neither. A lot of people haven't.




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