Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.

Next JS2 wave(s) will be...

Monday 3/27
2
2%
Tuesday 3/28
18
17%
Wednesday 3/29
35
33%
Thursday 3/30
13
12%
Friday 3/31
29
27%
Saturday 4/1
10
9%
 
Total votes: 107

Monday

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Monday » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:58 pm

.
Last edited by Monday on Thu May 11, 2017 12:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

xandra_v

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby xandra_v » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:58 pm

mrgstephe wrote:Just wanted to remind everyone not to forget that H hasn't given us any JS1s or 2s in far too long.

Sad!


this is when we find out the H adcom started this whole debate to distract us from this key fact

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Smc1994

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Smc1994 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:58 pm

Monday wrote:
curry1 wrote:
mrgstephe wrote:Just wanted to remind everyone not to forget that H hasn't given us any JS1s or 2s in far too long.

Sad!


Together, we will MHGA.

Gasp. We forgot the real enemy here.



Ghina, or facts??
Last edited by Smc1994 on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Rigo

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:59 pm

Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200

They don't do bonuses though.
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.

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Smc1994

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Smc1994 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:00 pm

Rigo wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200

They don't do bonuses though.
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.


W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.

Rigo

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:02 pm

Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200

They don't do bonuses though.
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.

W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.

Isnt that for people that have secured clerkships though? I don't know so asking genuinely.

curry1

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby curry1 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:02 pm

Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200

They don't do bonuses though.
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.


W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.


This is pretty close to telling people to just do a supreme court clerkship (honors from HLS + prestigious clerkship is often not enough to get W&C).

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Sarastro

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Sarastro » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:02 pm

Monday wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:Can I chime in? Now, people might call me illogical/stupid/don't be a lawyer, but here is my take on it: We picked to become attorneys, right? We chose our career. We hope not to change it and we are going to school and paying a good amount of money, as well as spending time, on it. You have one life. Wouldn't you want to go to the best school possible? Even if at sticker? Your diploma will stick with you for the rest of your life. You will be spending the next 60 years of your life explaining to your employers/kids/friends that "Oh, I could've went into Harvard and got in, but I chose to go to University of Virginia as it was just cheaper and made more sense."

I don't know guys, it's just I feel like we have one shot at this for something that remains with us our whole career and life.

This concern would make sense only if lawyers stood around whipping out and comparing their diplomas rather than actual work product and business brought into the firm. Psst, they don't. So in the end, going after 300k debt is more of a personal preference ("I want to drop the H-bomb") and in that case, you do you but spare us the pretense of logic.

+1
Without being too specific, I know a soon-to-be-retired lawyer that reached the unequivocal top of her field and went to a TII "because it was cheaper." Pretty sure no one thinks less of her for it.

Doesn't mean there aren't objective differences between statistical outcomes of TII vs. HLS-- Her point to me, though, was essentially if you have the option of being successful from a TII and being successful from HLS, the difference is basically 300k and years of crippling debt vs bragging rights. Whether you find that argument persuasive is one thing, but I just found it to be an interesting perspective from someone I respected.

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Smc1994

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Smc1994 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:03 pm

Rigo wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200

They don't do bonuses though.
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.

W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.

Isnt that for people that have secured clerkships though? I don't know so asking genuinely.


My understanding is that you apply for a clerkship as a 3L, so I don't think that would be possible.

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Smc1994

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Smc1994 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:05 pm

curry1 wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200

They don't do bonuses though.
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.


W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.


This is pretty close to telling people to just do a supreme court clerkship (honors from HLS + prestigious clerkship is often not enough to get W&C).


With that attitude, maybe you should just aim lower. Maybe Skadden.

Rigo

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:06 pm

Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200

They don't do bonuses though.
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.

W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.

Isnt that for people that have secured clerkships though? I don't know so asking genuinely.

My understanding is that you apply for a clerkship as a 3L, so I don't think that would be possible.

It was my understanding that these summers are expected to get clerkships and they are not given formal offers until after they've done so and have permission from their judge to accept offers for the future.

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Smc1994

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Smc1994 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:08 pm

Rigo wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200

They don't do bonuses though.
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.

W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.

Isnt that for people that have secured clerkships though? I don't know so asking genuinely.

My understanding is that you apply for a clerkship as a 3L, so I don't think that would be possible.

It was my understanding that these summers are expected to get clerkships and they are not given formal offers until after they've done so and have permission from their judge to accept offers for the future.


If you're genuinely curious, I can ask a partner about it.

Rigo

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:11 pm

Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200

They don't do bonuses though.
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.

W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.

Isnt that for people that have secured clerkships though? I don't know so asking genuinely.

My understanding is that you apply for a clerkship as a 3L, so I don't think that would be possible.

It was my understanding that these summers are expected to get clerkships and they are not given formal offers until after they've done so and have permission from their judge to accept offers for the future.

If you're genuinely curious, I can ask a partner about it.

I can ask my friends there too, but no, I'm not genuinely curious enough for you to reach out for me.
W&C is not in the cards for me.

Rigo

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:13 pm

I want PI/gov but it's fun to backseat drive.

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dddddd90

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby dddddd90 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:14 pm

Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:If you're genuinely curious, I can ask a partner about it.

I can ask my friends there too, but no, I'm not genuinely curious enough for you to reach out for me.
W&C is not in the cards for me.


I'll reach out to RBG tomorrow and get her take on it. Anyone want me to put in a good word for a clerkship in 4 years? (She told me last week over coffee that she's sticking around)
Last edited by dddddd90 on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Smc1994

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Smc1994 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:15 pm

Rigo wrote:I want PI/gov but it's fun to backseat drive.


I prefer to think of corporate representation as a form of serving the public's interest.

Rigo

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:16 pm

dddddd90 wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:If you're genuinely curious, I can ask a partner about it.

I can ask my friends there too, but no, I'm not genuinely curious enough for you to reach out for me.
W&C is not in the cards for me.

I'll reach out to RBJ tomorrow and get her take on it. Anyone want me to put in a good word for a clerkship in 4 years? (She told me last week she's staying over coffee)

She better be sippin that Sorcerer's Stone elixir.

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Smc1994

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Smc1994 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:16 pm

dddddd90 wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:If you're genuinely curious, I can ask a partner about it.

I can ask my friends there too, but no, I'm not genuinely curious enough for you to reach out for me.
W&C is not in the cards for me.


I'll reach out to RBJ tomorrow and get her take on it. Anyone want me to put in a good word for a clerkship in 4 years? (She told me last week she's staying over coffee)


Ah yes, the Frankenstein-esque amalgam of LBJ and RBG. How is (s)he doing?

Rigo

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:16 pm

Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:I want PI/gov but it's fun to backseat drive.

I prefer to think of corporate representation as a form of serving the public's interest.

How very Cory Booker of you.

Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:17 pm

bloomsday wrote:Really, really encouraging that 3 or 4 different posters have now posted the same objectively verifiable math/numbers on this page alone and people are still not convinced.


No one is saying it's easy or preferred, and 2 years would probably be impossible, but everyone is way overstating what col and taxes are (and in the highest col area no less) in an attempt to prove a point.

300k should not be assumed loan amounts and 180 is not 115 after taxes

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OnlyHumean

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby OnlyHumean » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:17 pm

Sarastro wrote:
Monday wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:Can I chime in? Now, people might call me illogical/stupid/don't be a lawyer, but here is my take on it: We picked to become attorneys, right? We chose our career. We hope not to change it and we are going to school and paying a good amount of money, as well as spending time, on it. You have one life. Wouldn't you want to go to the best school possible? Even if at sticker? Your diploma will stick with you for the rest of your life. You will be spending the next 60 years of your life explaining to your employers/kids/friends that "Oh, I could've went into Harvard and got in, but I chose to go to University of Virginia as it was just cheaper and made more sense."

I don't know guys, it's just I feel like we have one shot at this for something that remains with us our whole career and life.

This concern would make sense only if lawyers stood around whipping out and comparing their diplomas rather than actual work product and business brought into the firm. Psst, they don't. So in the end, going after 300k debt is more of a personal preference ("I want to drop the H-bomb") and in that case, you do you but spare us the pretense of logic.

+1
Without being too specific, I know a soon-to-be-retired lawyer that reached the unequivocal top of her field and went to a TII "because it was cheaper." Pretty sure no one thinks less of her for it.

Doesn't mean there aren't objective differences between statistical outcomes of TII vs. HLS-- Her point to me, though, was essentially if you have the option of being successful from a TII and being successful from HLS, the difference is basically 300k and years of crippling debt vs bragging rights. Whether you find that argument persuasive is one thing, but I just found it to be an interesting perspective from someone I respected.


Maybe I'm missing something, but how do you know if you "have the option of being successful from a TII" until you've done it? It sounds like she's essentially saying "If you know everything will work out amazing after going to a TII, then go to a TII because it will be cheaper"
Sure. But the problem is we don't know if everything will work out amazing. Which is why we assume median; and I'd much rather be median at HLS than at a TII.

I just don't understand what this is supposed to tell us in advance of actually knowing how things work out.

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dddddd90

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby dddddd90 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:18 pm

Smc1994 wrote:
dddddd90 wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:If you're genuinely curious, I can ask a partner about it.

I can ask my friends there too, but no, I'm not genuinely curious enough for you to reach out for me.
W&C is not in the cards for me.


I'll reach out to RBJ tomorrow and get her take on it. Anyone want me to put in a good word for a clerkship in 4 years? (She told me last week she's staying over coffee)


Ah yes, the Frankenstein-esque amalgam of LBJ and RBG. How is (s)he doing?


Mx. Johnson is holding up well, but ze has grown greater and more terrible than hir creators ever imagined.

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Smc1994

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Smc1994 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:19 pm

Rigo wrote:
Smc1994 wrote:
Rigo wrote:I want PI/gov but it's fun to backseat drive.

I prefer to think of corporate representation as a form of serving the public's interest.

How very Cory Booker of you.


Let's not forget that Mitt's got a JD/MBA from H.

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dddddd90

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby dddddd90 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:19 pm

Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash wrote:
No one is saying it's easy or preferred, and 2 years would probably be impossible, but everyone is way overstating what col and taxes are (and in the highest col area no less) in an attempt to prove a point.

300k should not be assumed loan amounts and 180 is not 115 after taxes


LMAO you're arguing with FACTS.

Rigo

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:20 pm

OnlyHumean wrote:
Sarastro wrote:
Monday wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:Can I chime in? Now, people might call me illogical/stupid/don't be a lawyer, but here is my take on it: We picked to become attorneys, right? We chose our career. We hope not to change it and we are going to school and paying a good amount of money, as well as spending time, on it. You have one life. Wouldn't you want to go to the best school possible? Even if at sticker? Your diploma will stick with you for the rest of your life. You will be spending the next 60 years of your life explaining to your employers/kids/friends that "Oh, I could've went into Harvard and got in, but I chose to go to University of Virginia as it was just cheaper and made more sense."

I don't know guys, it's just I feel like we have one shot at this for something that remains with us our whole career and life.

This concern would make sense only if lawyers stood around whipping out and comparing their diplomas rather than actual work product and business brought into the firm. Psst, they don't. So in the end, going after 300k debt is more of a personal preference ("I want to drop the H-bomb") and in that case, you do you but spare us the pretense of logic.

+1
Without being too specific, I know a soon-to-be-retired lawyer that reached the unequivocal top of her field and went to a TII "because it was cheaper." Pretty sure no one thinks less of her for it.

Doesn't mean there aren't objective differences between statistical outcomes of TII vs. HLS-- Her point to me, though, was essentially if you have the option of being successful from a TII and being successful from HLS, the difference is basically 300k and years of crippling debt vs bragging rights. Whether you find that argument persuasive is one thing, but I just found it to be an interesting perspective from someone I respected.


Maybe I'm missing something, but how do you know if you "have the option of being successful from a TII" until you've done it? It sounds like she's essentially saying "If you know everything will work out amazing after going to a TII, then go to a TII because it will be cheaper"
Sure. But the problem is we don't know if everything will work out amazing. Which is why we assume median; and I'd much rather be median at HLS than at a TII.

I just don't understand what this is supposed to tell us in advance of actually knowing how things work out.

In reality, if you're getting Harvard you'll have significant T14/T20 money so it's not like you'll be damned to the second tier.



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