Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017) Forum
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
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Last edited by Monday on Thu May 11, 2017 12:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
this is when we find out the H adcom started this whole debate to distract us from this key factmrgstephe wrote:Just wanted to remind everyone not to forget that H hasn't given us any JS1s or 2s in far too long.
Sad!
- Smc1994
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
Monday wrote:Gasp. We forgot the real enemy here.curry1 wrote:Together, we will MHGA.mrgstephe wrote:Just wanted to remind everyone not to forget that H hasn't given us any JS1s or 2s in far too long.
Sad!
Ghina, or facts??
Last edited by Smc1994 on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
They don't do bonuses though.Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.Rigo wrote:They don't do bonuses though.Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
Isnt that for people that have secured clerkships though? I don't know so asking genuinely.Smc1994 wrote:W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.Rigo wrote:They don't do bonuses though.Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
This is pretty close to telling people to just do a supreme court clerkship (honors from HLS + prestigious clerkship is often not enough to get W&C).Smc1994 wrote:W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.Rigo wrote:They don't do bonuses though.Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.
- Sarastro
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
+1Monday wrote:This concern would make sense only if lawyers stood around whipping out and comparing their diplomas rather than actual work product and business brought into the firm. Psst, they don't. So in the end, going after 300k debt is more of a personal preference ("I want to drop the H-bomb") and in that case, you do you but spare us the pretense of logic.Thelaw23 wrote:Can I chime in? Now, people might call me illogical/stupid/don't be a lawyer, but here is my take on it: We picked to become attorneys, right? We chose our career. We hope not to change it and we are going to school and paying a good amount of money, as well as spending time, on it. You have one life. Wouldn't you want to go to the best school possible? Even if at sticker? Your diploma will stick with you for the rest of your life. You will be spending the next 60 years of your life explaining to your employers/kids/friends that "Oh, I could've went into Harvard and got in, but I chose to go to University of Virginia as it was just cheaper and made more sense."
I don't know guys, it's just I feel like we have one shot at this for something that remains with us our whole career and life.
Without being too specific, I know a soon-to-be-retired lawyer that reached the unequivocal top of her field and went to a TII "because it was cheaper." Pretty sure no one thinks less of her for it.
Doesn't mean there aren't objective differences between statistical outcomes of TII vs. HLS-- Her point to me, though, was essentially if you have the option of being successful from a TII and being successful from HLS, the difference is basically 300k and years of crippling debt vs bragging rights. Whether you find that argument persuasive is one thing, but I just found it to be an interesting perspective from someone I respected.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
My understanding is that you apply for a clerkship as a 3L, so I don't think that would be possible.Rigo wrote:Isnt that for people that have secured clerkships though? I don't know so asking genuinely.Smc1994 wrote:W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.Rigo wrote:They don't do bonuses though.Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
With that attitude, maybe you should just aim lower. Maybe Skadden.curry1 wrote:This is pretty close to telling people to just do a supreme court clerkship (honors from HLS + prestigious clerkship is often not enough to get W&C).Smc1994 wrote:W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.Rigo wrote:They don't do bonuses though.Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
It was my understanding that these summers are expected to get clerkships and they are not given formal offers until after they've done so and have permission from their judge to accept offers for the future.Smc1994 wrote:My understanding is that you apply for a clerkship as a 3L, so I don't think that would be possible.Rigo wrote:Isnt that for people that have secured clerkships though? I don't know so asking genuinely.Smc1994 wrote:W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.Rigo wrote:They don't do bonuses though.Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.
- Smc1994
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
If you're genuinely curious, I can ask a partner about it.Rigo wrote:It was my understanding that these summers are expected to get clerkships and they are not given formal offers until after they've done so and have permission from their judge to accept offers for the future.Smc1994 wrote:My understanding is that you apply for a clerkship as a 3L, so I don't think that would be possible.Rigo wrote:Isnt that for people that have secured clerkships though? I don't know so asking genuinely.Smc1994 wrote:W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.Rigo wrote:They don't do bonuses though.Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
I can ask my friends there too, but no, I'm not genuinely curious enough for you to reach out for me.Smc1994 wrote:If you're genuinely curious, I can ask a partner about it.Rigo wrote:It was my understanding that these summers are expected to get clerkships and they are not given formal offers until after they've done so and have permission from their judge to accept offers for the future.Smc1994 wrote:My understanding is that you apply for a clerkship as a 3L, so I don't think that would be possible.Rigo wrote:Isnt that for people that have secured clerkships though? I don't know so asking genuinely.Smc1994 wrote:W&C has a summer associate program, but it's pretty small.Rigo wrote:They don't do bonuses though.Smc1994 wrote:Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200
Plus you have to clerk beforehand to get a W&C offer so that's a wrench in any repayment plan.
W&C is not in the cards for me.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
I want PI/gov but it's fun to backseat drive.
- dddddd90
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
I'll reach out to RBG tomorrow and get her take on it. Anyone want me to put in a good word for a clerkship in 4 years? (She told me last week over coffee that she's sticking around)Smc1994 wrote:I can ask my friends there too, but no, I'm not genuinely curious enough for you to reach out for me.Rigo wrote: If you're genuinely curious, I can ask a partner about it.
W&C is not in the cards for me.
Last edited by dddddd90 on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
I prefer to think of corporate representation as a form of serving the public's interest.Rigo wrote:I want PI/gov but it's fun to backseat drive.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
She better be sippin that Sorcerer's Stone elixir.dddddd90 wrote:I'll reach out to RBJ tomorrow and get her take on it. Anyone want me to put in a good word for a clerkship in 4 years? (She told me last week she's staying over coffee)Smc1994 wrote:I can ask my friends there too, but no, I'm not genuinely curious enough for you to reach out for me.Rigo wrote: If you're genuinely curious, I can ask a partner about it.
W&C is not in the cards for me.
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- Smc1994
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
Ah yes, the Frankenstein-esque amalgam of LBJ and RBG. How is (s)he doing?dddddd90 wrote:I'll reach out to RBJ tomorrow and get her take on it. Anyone want me to put in a good word for a clerkship in 4 years? (She told me last week she's staying over coffee)Smc1994 wrote:I can ask my friends there too, but no, I'm not genuinely curious enough for you to reach out for me.Rigo wrote: If you're genuinely curious, I can ask a partner about it.
W&C is not in the cards for me.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
How very Cory Booker of you.Smc1994 wrote:I prefer to think of corporate representation as a form of serving the public's interest.Rigo wrote:I want PI/gov but it's fun to backseat drive.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
No one is saying it's easy or preferred, and 2 years would probably be impossible, but everyone is way overstating what col and taxes are (and in the highest col area no less) in an attempt to prove a point.bloomsday wrote:Really, really encouraging that 3 or 4 different posters have now posted the same objectively verifiable math/numbers on this page alone and people are still not convinced.
300k should not be assumed loan amounts and 180 is not 115 after taxes
- OnlyHumean
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
Maybe I'm missing something, but how do you know if you "have the option of being successful from a TII" until you've done it? It sounds like she's essentially saying "If you know everything will work out amazing after going to a TII, then go to a TII because it will be cheaper"Sarastro wrote:+1Monday wrote:This concern would make sense only if lawyers stood around whipping out and comparing their diplomas rather than actual work product and business brought into the firm. Psst, they don't. So in the end, going after 300k debt is more of a personal preference ("I want to drop the H-bomb") and in that case, you do you but spare us the pretense of logic.Thelaw23 wrote:Can I chime in? Now, people might call me illogical/stupid/don't be a lawyer, but here is my take on it: We picked to become attorneys, right? We chose our career. We hope not to change it and we are going to school and paying a good amount of money, as well as spending time, on it. You have one life. Wouldn't you want to go to the best school possible? Even if at sticker? Your diploma will stick with you for the rest of your life. You will be spending the next 60 years of your life explaining to your employers/kids/friends that "Oh, I could've went into Harvard and got in, but I chose to go to University of Virginia as it was just cheaper and made more sense."
I don't know guys, it's just I feel like we have one shot at this for something that remains with us our whole career and life.
Without being too specific, I know a soon-to-be-retired lawyer that reached the unequivocal top of her field and went to a TII "because it was cheaper." Pretty sure no one thinks less of her for it.
Doesn't mean there aren't objective differences between statistical outcomes of TII vs. HLS-- Her point to me, though, was essentially if you have the option of being successful from a TII and being successful from HLS, the difference is basically 300k and years of crippling debt vs bragging rights. Whether you find that argument persuasive is one thing, but I just found it to be an interesting perspective from someone I respected.
Sure. But the problem is we don't know if everything will work out amazing. Which is why we assume median; and I'd much rather be median at HLS than at a TII.
I just don't understand what this is supposed to tell us in advance of actually knowing how things work out.
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- dddddd90
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
Mx. Johnson is holding up well, but ze has grown greater and more terrible than hir creators ever imagined.Smc1994 wrote:Ah yes, the Frankenstein-esque amalgam of LBJ and RBG. How is (s)he doing?dddddd90 wrote:I'll reach out to RBJ tomorrow and get her take on it. Anyone want me to put in a good word for a clerkship in 4 years? (She told me last week she's staying over coffee)Smc1994 wrote:I can ask my friends there too, but no, I'm not genuinely curious enough for you to reach out for me.Rigo wrote: If you're genuinely curious, I can ask a partner about it.
W&C is not in the cards for me.
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
Let's not forget that Mitt's got a JD/MBA from H.Rigo wrote:How very Cory Booker of you.Smc1994 wrote:I prefer to think of corporate representation as a form of serving the public's interest.Rigo wrote:I want PI/gov but it's fun to backseat drive.
- dddddd90
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
LMAO you're arguing with FACTS.Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash wrote:
No one is saying it's easy or preferred, and 2 years would probably be impossible, but everyone is way overstating what col and taxes are (and in the highest col area no less) in an attempt to prove a point.
300k should not be assumed loan amounts and 180 is not 115 after taxes
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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)
In reality, if you're getting Harvard you'll have significant T14/T20 money so it's not like you'll be damned to the second tier.OnlyHumean wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, but how do you know if you "have the option of being successful from a TII" until you've done it? It sounds like she's essentially saying "If you know everything will work out amazing after going to a TII, then go to a TII because it will be cheaper"Sarastro wrote:+1Monday wrote:This concern would make sense only if lawyers stood around whipping out and comparing their diplomas rather than actual work product and business brought into the firm. Psst, they don't. So in the end, going after 300k debt is more of a personal preference ("I want to drop the H-bomb") and in that case, you do you but spare us the pretense of logic.Thelaw23 wrote:Can I chime in? Now, people might call me illogical/stupid/don't be a lawyer, but here is my take on it: We picked to become attorneys, right? We chose our career. We hope not to change it and we are going to school and paying a good amount of money, as well as spending time, on it. You have one life. Wouldn't you want to go to the best school possible? Even if at sticker? Your diploma will stick with you for the rest of your life. You will be spending the next 60 years of your life explaining to your employers/kids/friends that "Oh, I could've went into Harvard and got in, but I chose to go to University of Virginia as it was just cheaper and made more sense."
I don't know guys, it's just I feel like we have one shot at this for something that remains with us our whole career and life.
Without being too specific, I know a soon-to-be-retired lawyer that reached the unequivocal top of her field and went to a TII "because it was cheaper." Pretty sure no one thinks less of her for it.
Doesn't mean there aren't objective differences between statistical outcomes of TII vs. HLS-- Her point to me, though, was essentially if you have the option of being successful from a TII and being successful from HLS, the difference is basically 300k and years of crippling debt vs bragging rights. Whether you find that argument persuasive is one thing, but I just found it to be an interesting perspective from someone I respected.
Sure. But the problem is we don't know if everything will work out amazing. Which is why we assume median; and I'd much rather be median at HLS than at a TII.
I just don't understand what this is supposed to tell us in advance of actually knowing how things work out.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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