Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.

Next JS2 wave(s) will be...

Monday 3/27
2
2%
Tuesday 3/28
18
17%
Wednesday 3/29
35
33%
Thursday 3/30
13
12%
Friday 3/31
29
27%
Saturday 4/1
10
9%
 
Total votes: 107

canafsa

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby canafsa » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:07 pm

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Last edited by canafsa on Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rigo

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:07 pm

jjcorvino wrote:I also don't really have data to back this up, but I would bet a fair amount of money that the lowest in the class at Harvard has a better chance of success than the lowest in the class at NYU.

I think this is just a function of H's nontraditional grading. It's impossible to determine who is the lowest in H class unless they actually straight up failed.

e: scooped

curry1

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby curry1 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:09 pm

It's been almost a month since the last JS2s. Can we get back to speculation about JS2s?

canafsa

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby canafsa » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:10 pm

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Last edited by canafsa on Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rigo

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:10 pm

And tbf HYSB grading hurts a decent chunk of the class.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:14 pm

Oh I forgot H has 8% "low pass"
Gotta avoid that.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby minkbrigade » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:17 pm

Rigo wrote:
OnlyHumean wrote: I think even at sticker, HLS is an objectively good choice, and one that would help lift my family out of poverty, even if Dillard or RYK might be better ones for some people.

How does more debt better lift your family out of poverty? Your logic here is fishy.


Hm, well the equation changes a bit if you're relying on LRAP/LIPP. I didn't apply to UVA so don't know anything about their LRAP, but there are situations where even a full tuition scholarship wouldn't be enough to sway me from a school with a stronger LRAP. If I assume a median PI outcome/salary, chances are I'd end up paying more to cover the COA loans without good LRAP support than I would to pay tuition and COA loans at the school with a strong LRAP.

Obviously it's not a black-and-white thing--i.e., even though NYU's LRAP isn't as strong as Harvard's, I'd take RTK in a heartbeat.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:25 pm

minkbrigade wrote:
Rigo wrote:
OnlyHumean wrote: I think even at sticker, HLS is an objectively good choice, and one that would help lift my family out of poverty, even if Dillard or RYK might be better ones for some people.

How does more debt better lift your family out of poverty? Your logic here is fishy.


Hm, well the equation changes a bit if you're relying on LRAP/LIPP. I didn't apply to UVA so don't know anything about their LRAP, but there are situations where even a full tuition scholarship wouldn't be enough to sway me from a school with a stronger LRAP. If I assume a median PI outcome/salary, chances are I'd end up paying more to cover the COA loans without good LRAP support than I would to pay tuition and COA loans at the school with a strong LRAP.

Obviously it's not a black-and-white thing--i.e., even though NYU's LRAP isn't as strong as Harvard's, I'd take RTK in a heartbeat.

For many people, NYU LRAP would be better than H LIPP in that you pay way more out of pocket monthly under H's program than NYU's.*

Columbia (somewhat surprisingly) has the best LRAP program of any law school.**

*NYU expects no contribution is you make less than $80k. H expects a contribution if you make over $46k
**No contribution if you make less than $100k

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dddddd90

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby dddddd90 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:42 pm

Not to focus on the negative, but when do they typically start sending out rejection and WL waves? LSN has shown 8 rejections and 1 WL for quite some time. Also, do you have to JS1 to be WL?

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby dinan15 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:05 pm

bloomsday wrote:
anonperson2017 wrote:
dinan15 wrote:What about the ruby at Chicago? I just found out yesterday and it's making me question everything


Well to me, ruby at chicago over hls is even easier than rtk or dillard over hls. That's the true golden ticket.


I'm still waiting on HY, but I'm almost certainly taking the Ruby regardless. I've internally debated this ad nauseum, but I think whatever advantages HYS might have, even for my goals, they're not worth being that indebted through my 30s.


Yeah, I feel like that is what I'm leaning towards... Idk yet though

minkbrigade

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby minkbrigade » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:07 pm

Rigo wrote:
minkbrigade wrote:
Rigo wrote:
OnlyHumean wrote: I think even at sticker, HLS is an objectively good choice, and one that would help lift my family out of poverty, even if Dillard or RYK might be better ones for some people.

How does more debt better lift your family out of poverty? Your logic here is fishy.


Hm, well the equation changes a bit if you're relying on LRAP/LIPP. I didn't apply to UVA so don't know anything about their LRAP, but there are situations where even a full tuition scholarship wouldn't be enough to sway me from a school with a stronger LRAP. If I assume a median PI outcome/salary, chances are I'd end up paying more to cover the COA loans without good LRAP support than I would to pay tuition and COA loans at the school with a strong LRAP.

Obviously it's not a black-and-white thing--i.e., even though NYU's LRAP isn't as strong as Harvard's, I'd take RTK in a heartbeat.

For many people, NYU LRAP would be better than H LIPP in that you pay way more out of pocket monthly under H's program than NYU's.*

Columbia (somewhat surprisingly) has the best LRAP program of any law school.**

*NYU expects no contribution is you make less than $80k. H expects a contribution if you make over $46k
**No contribution if you make less than $100k


NYU has lower monthly costs in the PSLF-integrated plan, but I don't necessarily think that means its's better. Maybe it's a matter of preference, but there are several things that make me feel more comfortable with H's plan, including: 1. no threat of negative amortization; 2. it covers some undergrad debt; 3. no income cap (NYU's non-integrated plan has an income cap, and as far as I can tell the negative amortization protection would as well, as it resets your debt to where it would be under the non-integrated plan). Obviously, if I had a full or nearly-full scholarship at NYU, that would change things since the amount of debt to service would be so much lower and so the risks of NYU's plan would decrease.

But agree with you 100% on Columbia.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:12 pm

^yeah I was working with the assumption of NYU fully and just taking out COL loans.
If NYU sticker vs. H sticker then H obviously because negative amortization.

minkbrigade

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby minkbrigade » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:14 pm

Rigo wrote:^yeah I was working with the assumption of NYU fully and just taking out COL loans.
If NYU sticker vs. H sticker then H obviously because negative amortization.


Oh yeah, sorry--that totally makes sense.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby jjjman » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:20 pm

Are there any JS1s scheduled for today or tomorrow? Normally JS2s come out on or around the day JS1s resume following an 11-15 day break (it's been 13 days)

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:21 pm

There are a lot more personal variables that factor into comparing LRAP's, but I think it's a mistake to outright say H's is better than NYU's for everyone.

The fact of the matter is you will be paying more of your income monthly towards debt if on LIPP, but you will have more flexibility if you wanted to dip out before the 10 years since your debt will be decreasing each year instead of potentially growing because of interest.

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dddddd90

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby dddddd90 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:24 pm

Would you all take a low six figure offer at UVA over sticker at HLS if you want to go into BigLaw then teach, join the judiciary, or run for office or some shit? Asking for a friend.

canafsa

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby canafsa » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:25 pm

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OnlyHumean

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby OnlyHumean » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:26 pm

nimbus cloud wrote:
Rigo wrote:
OnlyHumean wrote: I think even at sticker, HLS is an objectively good choice, and one that would help lift my family out of poverty, even if Dillard or RYK might be better ones for some people.

How does more debt better lift your family out of poverty? Your logic here is fishy.


+1. If the intention is to lift your family out of poverty, then a full ride would be a better choice. Otherwise the family will be waiting for a long time for you to pay off your loans before you can help them.


I think you're misreading me, I never claimed that HLS was a better choice - in fact, I explicitly stated that Dillard and RTK may be better choices. I claimed that HLS is still an objectively good choice, because it still will help me lift my family out of poverty even if there might be other faster ways to do so.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:27 pm

dddddd90 wrote:Would you all take a low six figure offer at UVA over sticker at HLS if you want to go into BigLaw then teach, join the judiciary, or run for office or some shit? Asking for a friend.

What would COA at UVA be?

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:28 pm

canafsa wrote:Judging from the chatter in this thread it seems a miracle that ANYONE deigns to settle for HLS :lol:

I mean I'd go to H if I got in but Im not im the running for any significant CCN scholly.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby unpetitpacifiste » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:29 pm

I would choose HLS over any other school with any scholly in a heartbeat. The fact is just that you can pay off your debt in two years anyway if you work in BigLaw. Besides, while employment stats might be similar, the people you meet and the alumni network you can tap into will make a world of difference for your long-term career development, esp. if you are thinking about entering policy making further down the road.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby Rigo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:30 pm

unpetitpacifiste wrote:I would choose HLS over any other school with any scholly in a heartbeat. The fact is just that you can pay off your debt in two years anyway if you work in BigLaw.

lolwut

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OnlyHumean

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby OnlyHumean » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:31 pm

bloomsday wrote:
jjcorvino wrote:
OnlyHumean wrote:
anonperson2017 wrote:while we all anxiously await JS1s/JS2s, what are people's thoughts on this: who here would pick a UVA Dillard or NYU RTK if offered over HLS?


I think I'm likely to get a decent financial aid package from HLS (I'm from a low-income family and qualified for an LSAC wavier) so I think it would be HLS for me.

That said, I'm not very averse to debt (some people here seem to treat debt hanging over their head as if it was the sword of Damocles). I think even at sticker, HLS is an objectively good choice, and one that would help lift my family out of poverty, even if Dillard or RYK might be better ones for some people.

HLS has programs that specifically appeal to my area of interest, and quite a generous loan repayment program, so I think I'd still choose it even at sticker.


This is where I stand, HYS at sticker are all well worth it. I would even argue that CCN at sticker are worth it. Of course, worth it vs. best option is a different argument. I think full ride at CCN is probably a better deal than HYS at sticker unless you have very specific goals that can only be achieved at HYS.


Completely agreed. I'm not even especially debt-averse, and I would have been fine with paying sticker at HYSCCN. But having the option to go to one of those, or to another great school, for free makes that decision way iffier.


Essentially this. I think HYS at sticker are worth it / objectively good choices, even if they aren't perfectly optimal choices.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby canafsa » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:34 pm

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R. Jeeves

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Postby R. Jeeves » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:38 pm

unpetitpacifiste wrote:I would choose HLS over any other school with any scholly in a heartbeat. The fact is just that you can pay off your debt in two years anyway if you work in BigLaw.


how would you pay off a 200k+ loan in two years on a biglaw salary? What do you estimate your takehome and yearly expenses to be?



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