Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017) Forum

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Next JS2 wave(s) will be...

Monday 3/27
2
2%
Tuesday 3/28
18
17%
Wednesday 3/29
35
32%
Thursday 3/30
13
12%
Friday 3/31
30
28%
Saturday 4/1
10
9%
 
Total votes: 108

canafsa

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by canafsa » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:09 pm

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Last edited by canafsa on Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bloomsday

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Post by bloomsday » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:11 pm

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CPA-->JD

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by CPA-->JD » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:13 pm

CenterFringe wrote:
mrgstephe wrote:
canafsa wrote:Not buying it. Almost everyone is going to be working over the summers. Summer associates make well over 30,000. You're all imagining the absolute worst-case scenario. It doesn't reflect reality for 90% of students.
I literally even factored that in. $30k =/= $30k after taxes. Also the idea that someone who is debt financing multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars will use *all* of their earnings towards paying that debt down while still in school is laughable at best. That's not how people operate, especially people with low financial awareness.
You shouldn't be paying much or anything in taxes, as education expenses are deductible. Not that it changes the total calculus *that* much.
Sorry that's not accurate.

CenterFringe

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by CenterFringe » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:14 pm

Pozzo wrote:
CenterFringe wrote:
mrgstephe wrote:
canafsa wrote:Not buying it. Almost everyone is going to be working over the summers. Summer associates make well over 30,000. You're all imagining the absolute worst-case scenario. It doesn't reflect reality for 90% of students.
I literally even factored that in. $30k =/= $30k after taxes. Also the idea that someone who is debt financing multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars will use *all* of their earnings towards paying that debt down while still in school is laughable at best. That's not how people operate, especially people with low financial awareness.
You shouldn't be paying much or anything in taxes, as education expenses are deductible. Not that it changes the total calculus *that* much.
Except you're paying living expenses, not educational expenses.
Think about that for a second.
Taxes are calculated based on all your deductions and income for the year. It doesn't matter if you paid tuition in January/September and made money May-August.

Pozzo

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by Pozzo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:15 pm

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Last edited by Pozzo on Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lawlzschool

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by lawlzschool » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:16 pm

Pozzo wrote:
CPA-->JD wrote:
CenterFringe wrote:
mrgstephe wrote:
canafsa wrote:Not buying it. Almost everyone is going to be working over the summers. Summer associates make well over 30,000. You're all imagining the absolute worst-case scenario. It doesn't reflect reality for 90% of students.
I literally even factored that in. $30k =/= $30k after taxes. Also the idea that someone who is debt financing multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars will use *all* of their earnings towards paying that debt down while still in school is laughable at best. That's not how people operate, especially people with low financial awareness.
You shouldn't be paying much or anything in taxes, as education expenses are deductible. Not that it changes the total calculus *that* much.
Sorry that's not accurate.
Yeah, but what do you know?

*looks at username*

Oh, never mind.
four for you glen coco this is hilarious

loling obnoxiously here at work xD

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dddddd90

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by dddddd90 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:19 pm

canafsa wrote:
Pozzo wrote:
canafsa wrote:Not buying it. Almost everyone is going to be working over the summers. Summer associates make well over 30,000. You're all imagining the absolute worst-case scenario. It doesn't reflect reality for 90% of students.
There were two points at issue: 1. That "full sticker" at HLS is a good idea; and 2. that you could pay off the full sticker price of $240k a year in two years by living off of 60k with a 180k salary. We have responded:

1. "Full sticker" does not equal 240k
2. Even if it did, after you figure in taxes, etc., 240k is near insurmountable in two years.

Whether or not this situation is representative of 90% of students is another matter entirely.
I was responding to the poster who claimed a sticker-price will run a $320,000 debt. That's absolute nonsense, even for those who pay sticker. The cost of living in Cambridge is not, as others have claimed, 40k a year for law students. That is absurd. The dorms for the semester run under $8,000.
Not nonsense at all. You're kind of in the denial stage of grieving right now, but that's ok. You'll get over it.

see: https://www.lstreports.com/schools/harvard/

canafsa

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by canafsa » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:21 pm

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Post by bloomsday » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:22 pm

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dddddd90

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by dddddd90 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:27 pm

bloomsday wrote:Could the problem maybe just be that canafsa doesn't know that interest exists?
Yes. Nor how loan fees work. Mostly she's just in denial, though; this is tough stuff to process.
Last edited by dddddd90 on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CPA-->JD

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by CPA-->JD » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:27 pm

The worst part is you (if your lucky enough to land biglaw) won't be able to take the student interest deduction, as well as many others, since you are earning above the phase out thresholds. You will be slammed by taxes.

For the money earned during the summer, if that's your only only income(35k for the whole year) you won't be paying much at all if you fill out your w-4 correctly. If not, you will get it back when you file.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by Pozzo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:28 pm

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Monday

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by Monday » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:28 pm

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by curry1 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:29 pm

bloomsday wrote:Could the problem maybe just be that canafsa doesn't know that interest exists?
I think the problem is that he thinks that the fact that the average debt coming out of HLS is so much lower than TLS estimated sticker means that TLS is estimating wrong/TLS sticker is irrelevant. And he's right on the second point but wrong on the first. A lot of people have very wealthy families, a lot of people have substantial savings from work, others win outside scholarships like the Soros Fellowship for New Americans or get need based grants. But for someone who receives no grant aid, no financial support from parents and has no savings, sticker out of HLS will be around 300k factoring in interest. This would describe any KJD with parents with substantial incomes who are unwilling to contribute. There may not be many of these people, so TLS calculations might not be useful for the vast majority of applicants/admits (canafsa has a point here). But if you are one of these people, that figure is real and quite scary.
Last edited by curry1 on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by forum_user » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:29 pm

If nothing else this useless blabbering has assuaged my previous fear that a lot of movement ITT must mean another JS2 wave is going on :roll:

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Future Ex-Engineer

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by Future Ex-Engineer » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:30 pm

Pozzo wrote:
CenterFringe wrote:
Pozzo wrote:
CenterFringe wrote:
mrgstephe wrote:
canafsa wrote:Not buying it. Almost everyone is going to be working over the summers. Summer associates make well over 30,000. You're all imagining the absolute worst-case scenario. It doesn't reflect reality for 90% of students.
I literally even factored that in. $30k =/= $30k after taxes. Also the idea that someone who is debt financing multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars will use *all* of their earnings towards paying that debt down while still in school is laughable at best. That's not how people operate, especially people with low financial awareness.
You shouldn't be paying much or anything in taxes, as education expenses are deductible. Not that it changes the total calculus *that* much.
Except you're paying living expenses, not educational expenses.
Think about that for a second.
Taxes are calculated based on all your deductions and income for the year. It doesn't matter if you paid tuition in January/September and made money May-August.
Misunderstood your comment. That's on me.
You will get money back on your tax returns, but the reality is that income will be taxed/withheld by your employer until tax return season. If you told me that someone in law school that is debt financing was going to run out as soon as they got their tax return, and use it to pay down their current debt load, I'd just laugh at you. That's now how people who are in major debt operate.

katthegreat11

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by katthegreat11 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:31 pm

canafsa wrote:
Pozzo wrote:
canafsa wrote:Not buying it. Almost everyone is going to be working over the summers. Summer associates make well over 30,000. You're all imagining the absolute worst-case scenario. It doesn't reflect reality for 90% of students.
There were two points at issue: 1. That "full sticker" at HLS is a good idea; and 2. that you could pay off the full sticker price of $240k a year in two years by living off of 60k with a 180k salary. We have responded:

1. "Full sticker" does not equal 240k
2. Even if it did, after you figure in taxes, etc., 240k is near insurmountable in two years.

Whether or not this situation is representative of 90% of students is another matter entirely.
I was responding to the poster who claimed a sticker-price will run a $320,000 debt. That's absolute nonsense, even for those who pay sticker. The cost of living in Cambridge is not, as others have claimed, 40k a year for law students. That is absurd. The dorms for the semester run under $8,000.
$40k a year does seem incredibly high to me, considering I'm living in downtown DC making ~44k a year (before taxes) and still was able to put ~10k in savings, make student loan payments, and pay downtown DC rent. I'm estimating my COL during law school will be closer to $20-25k (I'll be living with a SO though).

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dddddd90

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by dddddd90 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:31 pm

curry1 wrote:
bloomsday wrote:Could the problem maybe just be that canafsa doesn't know that interest exists?
I think the problem is that he thinks that the fact that the average debt coming out of HLS is so much lower than TLS estimated sticker means that TLS is estimating wrong/TLS sticker is irrelevant. And he's right on the second point but wrong on the first. A lot of people have very wealthy families, a lot of people have substantial savings from work, others win outside scholarships like the Soros Fellowship for New Americans or get need based grants. But for someone who receives no grant aid, no financial support from parents and has no savings, sticker out of HLS will be around 300k factoring in interest. This would describe any KJD with parents with substantial incomes who are unwilling to contribute. There may not be many of these people, so TLS calculations might not be useful for the vast majority of applicants/admits (canafsa has a point here). But if you are one of these people, that figure is real and quite scary.
Something else I want to name is that it seems like most participants in this conversation are coming from a place of not having any undergrad debt. So many might well have parents who are willing to contribute.

bloomsday

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Post by bloomsday » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:33 pm

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R. Jeeves

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by R. Jeeves » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:36 pm

Pozzo wrote:
addie1412 wrote:
mrgstephe wrote: So with no help, that's $180k *just for tuition*. COL in Cambridge/Boston is easily 40/yr
:shock:

My Duke scholly is looking better and better tbh. COL = $0.00 living at home.
40/yr? Maybe if you want your own place. Probably closer to $20-25k with roommates. But, yeah, nowhere near $0.
yeah its def not 40. I live in cambridge right now and it is in the lower 20k region. I have a decent apartment that I share with some people. (dont quote)

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by katthegreat11 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:38 pm

Everyone should check out this calculator: https://www.accessgroup.org/calculator#

I put in the 2016-17 COA numbers on Harvard's website, assumed $0 grant money, $0 savings, $0 income during law school, and that you took out the full COA attendance loans (didn't personalize the numbers at all).

That comes out to a total of $265,800. Plus capitalized interest of $38,679, that comes to a total federal direct student loan obligation of $304, 479 at graduation.

I would call this the absolute worst-case scenario.
Last edited by katthegreat11 on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by 20171lhopeful » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:38 pm

canafsa wrote:Not buying it. Almost everyone is going to be working over the summers. Summer associates make well over 30,000. You're all imagining the absolute worst-case scenario. It doesn't reflect reality for 90% of students.
you still have to pay taxes on that 30k, and if you're on financial aid, that will factor into how much aid the school will give you the following academic year.

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R. Jeeves

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by R. Jeeves » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:39 pm

Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash wrote:
Rigo wrote:
unpetitpacifiste wrote:I would choose HLS over any other school with any scholly in a heartbeat. The fact is just that you can pay off your debt in two years anyway if you work in BigLaw.
lolwut
You could almost definitely pay off sticker h in two years. No one does it but with starting big law salary at 180 you could live on 60k a year and get really close if not done in two. If you were willing to live on even less that would get faster still.
That requires you to work like you're in big law and live like you never went to law school, but it's doable if you really want your debt gone asap
are you accounting for taxes and COL while working?

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Thelaw23

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by Thelaw23 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:42 pm

Can I chime in? Now, people might call me illogical/stupid/don't be a lawyer, but here is my take on it: We picked to become attorneys, right? We chose our career. We hope not to change it and we are going to school and paying a good amount of money, as well as spending time, on it. You have one life. Wouldn't you want to go to the best school possible? Even if at sticker? Your diploma will stick with you for the rest of your life. You will be spending the next 60 years of your life explaining to your employers/kids/friends that "Oh, I could've went into Harvard and got in, but I chose to go to University of Virginia as it was just cheaper and made more sense."

I don't know guys, it's just I feel like we have one shot at this for something that remains with us our whole career and life.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017)

Post by Saul Berenson » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:42 pm

bloomsday wrote:Could the problem maybe just be that canafsa doesn't know that interest exists?

Don't bash my girl Canafsa.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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