WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

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LawBuckeye12
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby LawBuckeye12 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:24 pm

Would really love to know what the employment stats looked like for W&L last year. I know they had a great 2015 but before that they were not great. I want to know if 2015 is going to be the new normal for W&L because of the new deans or it was just a one time thing. The Dean at the open house said the job numbers were "similar to 2015" but I don't know what that means.

It's a tough call for me between here and UGA because UGA has been more consistent with it's job numbers but I do love the closeness I saw at W&L between the faculty, alumni and students. Not sure if I would prefer the typical college town or small town Lexington. I think I would be fine with either.

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jstans
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby jstans » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:16 pm

LawBuckeye12 wrote:Would really love to know what the employment stats looked like for W&L last year. I know they had a great 2015 but before that they were not great. I want to know if 2015 is going to be the new normal for W&L because of the new deans or it was just a one time thing. The Dean at the open house said the job numbers were "similar to 2015" but I don't know what that means.

It's a tough call for me between here and UGA because UGA has been more consistent with it's job numbers but I do love the closeness I saw at W&L between the faculty, alumni and students. Not sure if I would prefer the typical college town or small town Lexington. I think I would be fine with either.


ABA employment disclosures are released mid-April if I remember right. So right around the time the deposit is due.

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Rowinguy2009
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby Rowinguy2009 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:37 pm

Charlie802 wrote:
Rowinguy2009 wrote:Hey all - 2013 W&L grad here. Things are going to be pretty slow during the next couple days at work, so I am happy to answer a couple questions if people have any.

Just to give you an idea as to what my career has been like so you know what I can speak on - I worked at a mildew firm for two years right after graduation. I then went to a one year federal district clerkship and now am working in DC for fed gov. All of these positions have been in or very near Virginia.

Overall I'm a huge fan of the school and look back on my three years fondly, but I'll answer any questions honestly. In a nutshell - it is obviously a small school/town, which comes with clear pros and cons.


Did the small town drive you crazy? What's the social life like?

Do you know anyone who broke into big law right out? Dc or NYC? I know you mentioned your graduated right in the recession, but any input would be appreciated.

Also can you share what you did for you 1L and 2L summers and how you got those opportunities (connections, career services, etc.)?


The social life is interesting. Of course, you hang out almost entirely with other law students. I got to know some people very well and ultimately made some great friends who are still some of my best friends to this day. The school and related orgs do a really good job of hosting social events, and people regularly have house parties and the like, so you are never without something to do. Things can feel a little suffocating, and after a while the "this is just like high school" comparisons start to get made pretty regularly.

I really enjoyed getting to know my class (for better or worse, you get to know most people really well), and in a way the small size is a great way to help you focus because there are few outside distractions. At the end of three years I was ready to be someplace new, but if I could go back and do it again I would in a heartbeat.

I worked at the same midlaw firm during both 1L and 2L summers that I ultimately went to after graduation. This is a rarity but does happen, especially in certain medium sized markets. I got this job during 1L OCI; I didn't participate in 2L OCI or try to make any kind of switch from firm to firm.

I know several people who went to biglaw straight after graduation. It was mostly toppish of the class types, with a few outliers. At the same time, a lot of people who probably could have been competitive for biglaw (myself included) were genuinely not interested. My personal feeling is that because of its location and reputation, W&L probably attracts a greater than usual amount of these types.
Last edited by Rowinguy2009 on Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rowinguy2009
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby Rowinguy2009 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:38 pm

double post

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amta
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby amta » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:43 pm

anyone stay with another admitted student for ASW?

Charlie802
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby Charlie802 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:55 pm

Rowinguy2009 wrote:
Charlie802 wrote:
Rowinguy2009 wrote:Hey all - 2013 W&L grad here. Things are going to be pretty slow during the next couple days at work, so I am happy to answer a couple questions if people have any.

Just to give you an idea as to what my career has been like so you know what I can speak on - I worked at a mildew firm for two years right after graduation. I then went to a one year federal district clerkship and now am working in DC for fed gov. All of these positions have been in or very near Virginia.

Overall I'm a huge fan of the school and look back on my three years fondly, but I'll answer any questions honestly. In a nutshell - it is obviously a small school/town, which comes with clear pros and cons.


Did the small town drive you crazy? What's the social life like?

Do you know anyone who broke into big law right out? Dc or NYC? I know you mentioned your graduated right in the recession, but any input would be appreciated.

Also can you share what you did for you 1L and 2L summers and how you got those opportunities (connections, career services, etc.)?


The social life is interesting. Of course, you hang out almost entirely with other law students. I got to know some people very well and ultimately made some great friends who are still some of my best friends to this day. The school and related orgs do a really good job of hosting social events, and people regularly have house parties and the like, so you are never without something to do. Things can feel a little suffocating, and after a while the "this is just like high school" comparisons start to get made pretty regularly.

I really enjoyed getting to know my class (for better or worse, you get to know most people really well), and in a way the small size is a great way to help you focus because there are few outside distractions. At the end of three years I was ready to be someplace new, but if I could go back and do it again I would in a heartbeat.

I worked at the same midlaw firm during both 1L and 2L summers that I ultimately went to after graduation. This is a rarity but does happen, especially in certain medium sized markets. I got this job during 1L OCI; I didn't participate in 2L OCI or try to make any kind of switch from firm to firm.

I know several people who went to biglaw straight after graduation. It was mostly toppish of the class types, with a few outliers. At the same time, a lot of people who probably could have been competitive for biglaw (myself included) were genuinely not interested. My personal feeling is that because of its location and reputation, W&L probably attracts a greater than usual amount of these types.


Great insight! Thank you!

Do you remember how many firms were doing OCI? I'm sure this can/has changed over time so I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Was the school competitive in nature or a little more laid back? I know all schools have a level of competitiveness, but would you say it overall a friendly environment?

Was there a lot of dating between law students?

How did you find your roommates and housing for 1L year?

toplaw01
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby toplaw01 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:20 pm

baseballfan660 wrote:
Rowinguy2009 wrote:Hey all - 2013 W&L grad here. Things are going to be pretty slow during the next couple days at work, so I am happy to answer a couple questions if people have any.

Just to give you an idea as to what my career has been like so you know what I can speak on - I worked at a mildew firm for two years right after graduation. I then went to a one year federal district clerkship and now am working in DC for fed gov. All of these positions have been in or very near Virginia.

Overall I'm a huge fan of the school and look back on my three years fondly, but I'll answer any questions honestly. In a nutshell - it is obviously a small school/town, which comes with clear pros and cons.

how hard do you think it would be to get a NYC Big Law job from W&L, or a Nyc decent paying medium sized firm job? Thanks in advance for answering !


I went to the Open Day and talked to 1L student. She had average grades and got offer from mid-law firm in NYC for this summer. She told me getting an internship in NYC is more difficult than D.C where most W&L students landed their summer internship, but NYC is possible even for median W&L students. The employment stats showed that 10% of W&L headed to NY and it was most likely in NYC, so I think the chance is possible but it's tougher. However, students who are from T20 still face a challenge to find internship/job in NYC; thus I do not see W&L students get any constraints.

If you want to practice in NY, it's worth to look at W&L NY passing bar because W&L have pretty high NY passing bar (~90%-100%).

imnottelling
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby imnottelling » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:06 pm

Since c/o 2013 is representing, I figure I might add to what I've already said in this thread. I just graduated in May and am currently clerking at an Art. III district court. After this, I am headed to the mythical Big Law NYC. My 2L summer was at the firm I am going to, and I got the summer associateship through OCI. Before anyone asks, yes, I was towards the top of my class. However, not all of my classmates who are heading to NYC were. And I was genuinely surprised at the number of classmates I saw when taking the NY bar (100% NY passage rate). I also know some of the current 3Ls are headed to NYC. And the NYC alumni are great. During my 2L summer in NYC, I ended up playing bocce ball at at an alumnus's Westchester home (and this wasn't someone who just graduated just a few years before me - they graduated in the '80s or something). So while W&L may traditionally place more people in DC, I really think that it's because more people want to go to DC than NYC. Gotham isn't for everyone. Also, as rowingguy2009 said, Big Law isn't what everyone wants. I'm a little terrified of it myself, and my salary would be greater comparing cost of living had I taken a job in a secondary market. That being said, I am not the only person in my class going straight to NYC Big Law and there are several going to DC/secondary markets. Also, 1L summer I interned for the judge I am now clerking for. My torts professor put me in touch with this judge.

I saw a question about the number of employers at OCI. I don't remember how many came to the school, but OCI is a process that lasts for several weeks, and quite a few come to campus. Even while not in the traditional "OCI," I remember there being other interview programs throughout the year and the office of career strategy seems to be always willing to make phone calls for you. As for me, I focused on the NYC and DC interview programs. I want to say that there were at least 20 interviewers at the NYC OCI. Maybe a few less at the DC interview program, but if so, not by many and because these firms had easier access to W&L campus. I also cold resume dropped several firms and got interviews (and offers) that way.

As to some of the other questions: Regarding Lexington, it will be a place I will always love going back to. The memories I have from the school and town will stay with me for a lifetime. There is enough to do socially, because, as Rowingguy2009 said, you end up hanging out with other students (and talking only about the law which can annoy spouses and significant others), and the groups do a good job putting on events (Halloween party, 1L cocktail where the whole school is invited, patio party, jazzy nights, barrister's ball, end of the year party, law school football league, etc).

As for the competitive nature of W&L, it is not competitive at all. I remember one person who already had their dream offer. They gave up an interview spot for another classmate. Sure, during exam time, it can get stressful and maybe in the last few days, a few study groups may not accept new people. But you aren't going to find students sabotaging other students. I remember touring a big southern state school and asked if there was a place I could leave my books for a few hours. The student said, "um, in your locker? You don't want to leave things out here." The student also said that professors wouldn't answer questions close to exams. I never had a problem with that at W&L.

Do classmates date? Yes, and they sometimes get married, and they sometimes break up. Some law school students come to school with significant others or children, some do not. It'll be the same at every school, you just may know the all the names of the people here because the class is small. Whether that information makes it dramatic or like high school is up to you. For me, I walked into law school married and didn't really care.

Finally, housing. I got mine by walking into a local food coop and seeing a sign. It was a 2 bedroom house on over an acre less than 4 miles from the school. It was pretty awesome but for other reasons, we decided to move into town. I found that house on craigslist and it was in walking distance to the school. I paid $850/month for a two bedroom with washer and dryer and a fenced in backyard. A lot of people find housing through the admitted students page and this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/226394657553692/

I'll check this thread again in the next few days if there are other questions, or feel free to private message me. It's great to see the interest. Also, if you haven't already, I would really suggest trying to attend an Admitted Student's Weekend. W&L was completely off the radar for me until I went, and it changed my outlook when looking at the other schools. I'm happy with my decision about where to start my legal career.
Last edited by imnottelling on Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:11 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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shotgunheist
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby shotgunheist » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:14 pm

imnottelling wrote:


This was wonderful, thank you.

Charlie802
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby Charlie802 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:57 pm

shotgunheist wrote:
imnottelling wrote:


This was wonderful, thank you.


+1 THANK YOU! This makes me really excited for ASD and W&L.

Legallylawyer2020
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby Legallylawyer2020 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:15 pm

how quickly have people been receiving answers after going under review?

Charlie802
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby Charlie802 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:18 pm

Legallylawyer2020 wrote:how quickly have people been receiving answers after going under review?


Two weeks for me. Was admitted early November though. Not sure if the timeline has changed.

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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby WamBamThankYouMaam » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:50 pm

Legallylawyer2020 wrote:how quickly have people been receiving answers after going under review?

When you go under review they email you saying to expect a decision in 2-3 weeks. It was exactly 3 weeks for me, but that was mid/end of January.

ab9315
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby ab9315 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:42 am

jstans wrote:
Charlie802 wrote:
theorangewon wrote:I did most of undergrad in a small town really similar to Lexington, I'm from a small town, and I'm really kind of just a good ole' country boy, to an extent. So I thought Lexington was great and I'm a big fan of the small town vibe of it. That being said, coming from a big city, it may be a little different, perhaps too different. Lexington and the people there are nice, but there are Confederate flag bumper stickers on trucks, a rich military culture due to the proximity of VMI, and it's likely a somewhat more conservative school in a cultural sense. I'm not certain if those are things will be an issue, but if you won't like living in small town southern America then I bet it'll be difficult.


WamBamThankYouMaam wrote:
theorangewon wrote:Admitted students weekend was interesting, I stayed a couple extra days with a student and really got a good feel for the school and the town I think. I withdrew applications elsewhere today and am headed to W&L in the fall. I wish the rest of you all the best of luck!

I'm leaning towards to W&L, hopefully I'll be able to make a final decision on where to go after the open house at then end of March. How was Lexington in general? I've always lived in relatively big cities, so I'm not sure what to make of the small town vibe yet.


Interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing! Slightly worried about how I will feel about the town though. Hopefully seeing it in person brings some clarity.


As someone from the South who has "uncommon" political opinions for my home state, the Confederate flags do get a little bothersome. Especially since I live in the part of my state that did not want to secede and had no interest in the slavery practice since we're up in the mountains. The gungho uninformed "heritage not hate" argument gets old given this history.


I went to W&L for undergrad - so all here feel free to PM about the town, life there, etc. Lexington is beautiful and cheap and a wonderful place to live. Being so far away from "civilization" as we called it was kind of weird, but to be honest not that big of a deal. DC is a pretty easy drive - I was looking for jobs there during my senior year and I drove up all the time for interviews and such and it was never that much of a hassle. As for the confederate flags- speaking as someone who went to W&L from a very liberal family in the north, it was a bit strange to see, but all the demonstrators ever do is stand there and parade once a year. Southern hospitality is a real thing- they don't get aggressive at all, although it was always a little uncomfortable driving to class and seeing all of them there. There are also a lot of really nice restaurants in Lexington which a lot of people don't realize right off the top. I wouldn't trade my time there for anything! Granted I'm sure undergrad is a lot more fun than law school but I miss that town so much!

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dbalkaran
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby dbalkaran » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:19 pm

That's encouraging to hear that so many New York firms recruit from W&L. The things I'm hearing in this thread are pushing the school even further up my list.

Charlie802
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby Charlie802 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:21 pm

dbalkaran wrote:That's encouraging to hear that so many New York firms recruit from W&L. The things I'm hearing in this thread are pushing the school even further up my list.


+1 agreed.

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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby Jonesy2020 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:24 pm

Charlie802 wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:That's encouraging to hear that so many New York firms recruit from W&L. The things I'm hearing in this thread are pushing the school even further up my list.


+1 agreed.



+2

Especially with GW's 4 year decline from 20 to 30.

toplaw01
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby toplaw01 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:39 pm

Jonesy2020 wrote:
Charlie802 wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:That's encouraging to hear that so many New York firms recruit from W&L. The things I'm hearing in this thread are pushing the school even further up my list.


+1 agreed.



+2

Especially with GW's 4 year decline from 20 to 30.

+3

toplaw01
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby toplaw01 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:41 pm

What did you guy think after the first day of ASD ?

Charlie802
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby Charlie802 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:57 pm

toplaw01 wrote:What did you guy think after the first day of ASD ?


+1

Would love to hear as well! I'm going to the next one.

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WamBamThankYouMaam
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby WamBamThankYouMaam » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:01 pm

Charlie802 wrote:
toplaw01 wrote:What did you guy think after the first day of ASD ?


+1

Would love to hear as well! I'm going to the next one.

+2 I'll also be at the March 31st Open House

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shotgunheist
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby shotgunheist » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:04 pm

ASD was pretty great. I be sure to pay attention to how the alumni and current students and whatnot talk to each other and not to the prospectives, as I feel it reveals the real camaraderie of the school. Everyone was very cordial and it seemed like a fraternity in a good way, i guess, with everyone looking out for each other and doing everything they can to try and help them succeed. The school was nice and I got to have some very fun conversations with some high level professors. Also made a lot of friends with others who attended the weekend. Their employment stories seemed really compelling, and I would feel confident going there for both a good education and post-grad success. Additionally, they were super straight up about their statistics and curve and everything, giving out hardball answers before anyone asked hardball questions, which I commend.

The positives truly outweigh the negatives for me, but I will mention my two. One, lack of diversity. Not a huge deal to me honestly and I would feel different if I was a minority I'm sure, but it's very white and noticeably so. I didn't see a single person of color on the law journal staff composite or on the student council, etc. I did not get a sense of racism and saw no confederate flags or anything, but it was noticeable at least to me. The BLSA is incredible though, unfortunately they weren't around at the weekend.
Two, the town is so small. So small. It would be a big change for me. Would be useful when you need to study though, haha! But you have to walk everywhere in town, just a few bars, no uber or lyft so you'd have to drive if you need to go out of town. That's my biggest negative. If W&L was in a big city my deposit would be down yesterday.

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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby Charlie802 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:07 pm

shotgunheist wrote:ASD was pretty great. I be sure to pay attention to how the alumni and current students and whatnot talk to each other and not to the prospectives, as I feel it reveals the real camaraderie of the school. Everyone was very cordial and it seemed like a fraternity in a good way, i guess, with everyone looking out for each other and doing everything they can to try and help them succeed. The school was nice and I got to have some very fun conversations with some high level professors. Also made a lot of friends with others who attended the weekend. Their employment stories seemed really compelling, and I would feel confident going there for both a good education and post-grad success. Additionally, they were super straight up about their statistics and curve and everything, giving out hardball answers before anyone asked hardball questions, which I commend.

The positives truly outweigh the negatives for me, but I will mention my two. One, lack of diversity. Not a huge deal to me honestly and I would feel different if I was a minority I'm sure, but it's very white and noticeably so. I didn't see a single person of color on the law journal staff composite or on the student council, etc. I did not get a sense of racism and saw no confederate flags or anything, but it was noticeable at least to me. The BLSA is incredible though, unfortunately they weren't around at the weekend.
Two, the town is so small. So small. It would be a big change for me. Would be useful when you need to study though, haha! But you have to walk everywhere in town, just a few bars, no uber or lyft so you'd have to drive if you need to go out of town. That's my biggest negative. If W&L was in a big city my deposit would be down yesterday.


Thank you for the info! Sounds like it left a great impression!

I am likewise worried about being in a small town. Went to high school in one and it can be a struggle.

Are you leaning W&L after the weekend, or weighing other options still?

Legallylawyer2020
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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby Legallylawyer2020 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:00 pm

Has anyone heard from W and L recently? Went under review on 3/6 and they're a top choice of mine- getting anxious to hear!!

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Re: WASHINGTON AND LEE ( W&L) School of Law c/o 2020 Applicants

Postby WamBamThankYouMaam » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:36 pm

Legallylawyer2020 wrote:Has anyone heard from W and L recently? Went under review on 3/6 and they're a top choice of mine- getting anxious to hear!!

On LSN it looks like there were a bunch of decisions on 3/1, mostly waitlists though so I think it was people that were held. There was a lone acceptance on 3/8, so I think another round of decisions should come out soon.

I was admitted exactly 3 weeks after going under review. When you go under review they email you saying to expect a decision in 2-3 weeks, but that was in January so idk if the timeline has changed.




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