Columbia c/o 2020 applicants (2016-2017)

[BoyJord]

I'm happy to be put on reserve. What are the stats of getting off reserve? Does this LOCI have to be carefully written?

also on reserve today
RE: WL stats ... viewtopic.php?t=225363

So what goes in a LOCI?

"I still love you, do you love me?"

But to be more serious, I think of it as a chance to update my file with accomplishments (like the PDF says) and also mention how great a fit I would be at school X

[Keilz]

Honestly feel like I will just never hear anything back from Columbia at this point.

pretty sure Keilz and I are with you on that one talk to us Columbia!

u got dat right. Man, if I were admitted to Columbia, I would be so happy. I'm kind of scared of losing these daydreams though once I hear back haha (unless it's an acceptance )

[ZVBXRPL]

I'm happy to be put on reserve. What are the stats of getting off reserve? Does this LOCI have to be carefully written?

also on reserve today
RE: WL stats ... viewtopic.php?t=225363

So what goes in a LOCI?

"I still love you, do you love me?"

But to be more serious, I think of it as a chance to update my file with accomplishments (like the PDF says) and also mention how great a fit I would be at school X

Who gets reserve? im below 25th LSAT, but above 75th GPA.

[Leliana]

Interesting to hear everyone's thoughts! I think it really goes to show how much of the decision comes down to your own personal impression. I personally had an amazing experience (I'm PI-focused fwiw) and I think it's going to be tough for any other schools to measure up... I was already leaning towards CLS as my first choice and after going to ASP I am also totally sold

I'm also PI-focused, but won't be able to make it to an ASD. Would you be up for elaborating more? I'm leaning towards Columbia because of the LRAP, but am definitely nervous about its reputation of having a corporate culture.

Yeah, totally! I was similarly wondering about the corporate culture reputation and I have to say was very pleasantly surprised. Like others have said in this thread, I think they were clearly trying to push PI during ASP because of that reputation. However, it did seem to me like there is a genuine focus of developing CLS's public interest sphere under the new dean.

My main takeaways from speaking with current students: generally, the PI community is smaller than at NYU. However, despite this, I got the impression that it is very strong. The students/graduates on the ASP panels as well as the student ambassadors all had impressive jobs and experience. A lot of them told me directly that the smaller community means there is less competition for clinics, externships, volunteer programs, and even jobs. One girl told me she was easily able to just sign up for a third-party pro bono project whereas her friend at NYU had to put together a whole application because the program only had a certain amount of spots for each school and NYU had a ton of students that wanted to do it. They also said it meant they were able to work more closely with some of the amazing PI-oriented professors and serve as research assistants or teaching assistants, get letters of rec and so on. Everyone had really great things to say about SJI and the career counseling in their office. They very much stressed that CLS has connections everywhere and that SJI staff would make personal calls to employers they knew in the field, basically be in constant contact with applicants and hold their hands throughout the process. It just seemed like they really go above and beyond. I happened to sit at breakfast with the dean of SJI and a con law professor and they were really warm and easy to talk to.

I got the impression that there is still an aspect of pressure to do OCI, BUT I also think that exists at every school and friends at HLS/other T14 have told me as much. Students that I talked to said it was a conscious choice they had to make for themselves to focus on their PI work but also that they didn't feel judged or left out for doing so.

And like you said, the LRAP is also a major factor. At the moment I am very nervous about going to a school that does not have a government-independent LRAP.

Disclaimer: this is just my personal experience and others may have felt differently. In addition to all the PI-specific stuff, a lot of what made my experience positive was just a sort of general vibe and culture/community feeling that felt similar to my undergrad which I really loved, and made me feel like I would be a good fit at CLS. I also personally prefer Morningside Heights and the more campus feel of Columbia (not to mention cheaper and better housing options) over NYU. And again, those are all things that really depend on the individual.

[airwrecka]

Interesting to hear everyone's thoughts! I think it really goes to show how much of the decision comes down to your own personal impression. I personally had an amazing experience (I'm PI-focused fwiw) and I think it's going to be tough for any other schools to measure up... I was already leaning towards CLS as my first choice and after going to ASP I am also totally sold

I'm also PI-focused, but won't be able to make it to an ASD. Would you be up for elaborating more? I'm leaning towards Columbia because of the LRAP, but am definitely nervous about its reputation of having a corporate culture.

Yeah, totally! I was similarly wondering about the corporate culture reputation and I have to say was very pleasantly surprised. Like others have said in this thread, I think they were clearly trying to push PI during ASP because of that reputation. However, it did seem to me like there is a genuine focus of developing CLS's public interest sphere under the new dean.

My main takeaways from speaking with current students: generally, the PI community is smaller than at NYU. However, despite this, I got the impression that it is very strong. The students/graduates on the ASP panels as well as the student ambassadors all had impressive jobs and experience. A lot of them told me directly that the smaller community means there is less competition for clinics, externships, volunteer programs, and even jobs. One girl told me she was easily able to just sign up for a third-party pro bono project whereas her friend at NYU had to put together a whole application because the program only had a certain amount of spots for each school and NYU had a ton of students that wanted to do it. They also said it meant they were able to work more closely with some of the amazing PI-oriented professors and serve as research assistants or teaching assistants, get letters of rec and so on. Everyone had really great things to say about SJI and the career counseling in their office. They very much stressed that CLS has connections everywhere and that SJI staff would make personal calls to employers they knew in the field, basically be in constant contact with applicants and hold their hands throughout the process. It just seemed like they really go above and beyond. I happened to sit at breakfast with the dean of SJI and a con law professor and they were really warm and easy to talk to.

I got the impression that there is still an aspect of pressure to do OCI, BUT I also think that exists at every school and friends at HLS/other T14 have told me as much. Students that I talked to said it was a conscious choice they had to make for themselves to focus on their PI work but also that they didn't feel judged or left out for doing so.

And like you said, the LRAP is also a major factor. At the moment I am very nervous about going to a school that does not have a government-independent LRAP.

Disclaimer: this is just my personal experience and others may have felt differently. In addition to all the PI-specific stuff, a lot of what made my experience positive was just a sort of general vibe and culture/community feeling that felt similar to my undergrad which I really loved, and made me feel like I would be a good fit at CLS. I also personally prefer Morningside Heights and the more campus feel of Columbia (not to mention cheaper and better housing options) over NYU. And again, those are all things that really depend on the individual.

I think we have very similar interests and goals out of LS and so your review makes me even more excited to visit CLS next month!

[alpinespring]

.

[alpinespring]

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[Thelaw23]

Just want to say that admitted student days were fantastic. I am so sold on Columbia.

Really? I walked in thinking I would love Columbia, and walked out very confused. I spent some time at NYU today and liked it a lot better (leaving me very confused).

Would you mind elaborating more on what you disliked about columbia and what you liked about nyu?

Personally, I felt that the "sell" that I was given was related to the amount of money you're "guaranteed" to make if you go to Columbia. Also, it didn't help that the Columbia students I talked to said there wasn't a meaningful difference between opportunities afforded to NYU students and the ones they had, and yet they made no effort to differentiate why you would choose Columbia. The NYU students seemed to talk about the people they met, the experiences they had with professors, etc. You can go to BigLaw from so many places, why would that be your selling point? If you can go to BL for both, the community and the intangibles should matter. Hope that helps!

BigLaw isn't created equally. Columbia gives access to the top end of BigLaw that Cornell or Fordham doesn't for example.

What're your thoughts on what VA2 said about how CLS students see themselves as essentially having the same opportunities as NYU grads.

If you're aiming for BigLaw, is there really no difference in the value of a CLS degree compared with that of NYU?

So... if you're 100% set on BigLaw, then NYU (half $$) >>>>> CLS (sticker)?

I know the above question is asked 1000x times in other forums, but I think this particular thread of CLS-aspirants may provide the most "objective" answer to the above question lol

There's a difference in v10 firms, but it is small and therefore not worth that half tuition. There is also a difference in culture and people of both schools. Big difference in campus/location even though both are in NYC. Big difference in lay prestige.

I love CLS with all my heart but even I would have to mull over going there at sticker if I have a half tuition offer from NYU.

[VapidP]

Just want to say that admitted student days were fantastic. I am so sold on Columbia.

Really? I walked in thinking I would love Columbia, and walked out very confused. I spent some time at NYU today and liked it a lot better (leaving me very confused).

Would you mind elaborating more on what you disliked about columbia and what you liked about nyu?

Personally, I felt that the "sell" that I was given was related to the amount of money you're "guaranteed" to make if you go to Columbia. Also, it didn't help that the Columbia students I talked to said there wasn't a meaningful difference between opportunities afforded to NYU students and the ones they had, and yet they made no effort to differentiate why you would choose Columbia. The NYU students seemed to talk about the people they met, the experiences they had with professors, etc. You can go to BigLaw from so many places, why would that be your selling point? If you can go to BL for both, the community and the intangibles should matter. Hope that helps!

BigLaw isn't created equally. Columbia gives access to the top end of BigLaw that Cornell or Fordham doesn't for example.

What're your thoughts on what VA2 said about how CLS students see themselves as essentially having the same opportunities as NYU grads.

If you're aiming for BigLaw, is there really no difference in the value of a CLS degree compared with that of NYU?

So... if you're 100% set on BigLaw, then NYU (half $$) >>>>> CLS (sticker)?

I know the above question is asked 1000x times in other forums, but I think this particular thread of CLS-aspirants may provide the most "objective" answer to the above question lol

There's a difference in v10 firms, but it is small and therefore not worth that half tuition. There is also a difference in culture and people of both schools. Big difference in campus/location even though both are in NYC. Big difference in lay prestige.

I love CLS with all my heart but even I would have to mull over going there at sticker if I have a half tuition offer from NYU.

[Thelaw23]

How do you know you got sticker at CLS if they start sending out offers/fin aid packages in like April?

[Leliana]

...

I think we have very similar interests and goals out of LS and so your review makes me even more excited to visit CLS next month!

Aww you're sweet -- I think so too!! I hope you enjoy CLS and who knows, we might end up as classmates somewhere

Thank you so much for sharing your valuable insights.
I really appreciate you guys writing about your visits and thoughts about the schools.
It's really helpful to compare the pros / cons of each school. Thanks!

Totally! Happy to help.

[VapidP]

How do you know you got sticker at CLS if they start sending out offers/fin aid packages in like April?

Ahh, I don't think I am going to qualify for need-based aid and I thought they don't do merit-based ones.

[Thelaw23]

How do you know you got sticker at CLS if they start sending out offers/fin aid packages in like April?

Ahh, I am not going to qualify for need-based aid and I thought they don't do merit-based ones.

I'm pretty sure they combine need-based and merit-based aid in these offers. The only merit offers can't be the named ones?

[VapidP]

How do you know you got sticker at CLS if they start sending out offers/fin aid packages in like April?

Ahh, I am not going to qualify for need-based aid and I thought they don't do merit-based ones.

I'm pretty sure they combine need-based and merit-based aid in these offers. The only merit offers can't be the named ones?

Someone said upthread that if you didn't get merit based aid at the time of acceptance, you will not be getting merit based aid. They said that its a little bit based on stats and they are negotiable, but when I called the financial aid office they said that only the admissions office has a small merit based program.

It seems like best case scenario they are masking merit aid as need aid.

[GorillaWarfare]

does anyone remember what questions they asked in the interview?

[Thelaw23]

How do you know you got sticker at CLS if they start sending out offers/fin aid packages in like April?

Ahh, I am not going to qualify for need-based aid and I thought they don't do merit-based ones.

I'm pretty sure they combine need-based and merit-based aid in these offers. The only merit offers can't be the named ones?

Someone said upthread that if you didn't get merit based aid at the time of acceptance, you will not be getting merit based aid

But the only merit-based aid given at the time of acceptance is either the Hamilton or Butler? I hope this isn't true...

[VapidP]

How do you know you got sticker at CLS if they start sending out offers/fin aid packages in like April?

Ahh, I am not going to qualify for need-based aid and I thought they don't do merit-based ones.

I'm pretty sure they combine need-based and merit-based aid in these offers. The only merit offers can't be the named ones?

Someone said upthread that if you didn't get merit based aid at the time of acceptance, you will not be getting merit based aid

But the only merit-based aid given at the time of acceptance is either the Hamilton or Butler? I hope this isn't true...

IDK the financial aid office said (when I called them) that only the admissions office has a small merit based program, so I would imagine that it was the Hamilton or Butler.

[airwrecka]

How do you know you got sticker at CLS if they start sending out offers/fin aid packages in like April?

Ahh, I am not going to qualify for need-based aid and I thought they don't do merit-based ones.

I'm pretty sure they combine need-based and merit-based aid in these offers. The only merit offers can't be the named ones?

Someone said upthread that if you didn't get merit based aid at the time of acceptance, you will not be getting merit based aid

But the only merit-based aid given at the time of acceptance is either the Hamilton or Butler? I hope this isn't true...

Based on stalking previous Columbia threads, there is other merit based aid "masked" so to say as need-based. Since the vast majority of applicants do not qualify for need-based aid, there is no way that everyone who gets aid in the later process (when stuff comes out in April) is need-based. Also, there were definitely reports of people negotiating from $0 up to something (not tons, but something) with scholarship offers from other schools (NYU and Chi are best bargaining chips I think).

Do not lose hope yet!! Just make sure you send in all your application materials, and be prepared to negotiate your butts off as soon as you get any info (the turnaround time looked really quick since CLS releases aid info sooo late compared to most schools).

[Thelaw23]

How do you know you got sticker at CLS if they start sending out offers/fin aid packages in like April?

Ahh, I am not going to qualify for need-based aid and I thought they don't do merit-based ones.

I'm pretty sure they combine need-based and merit-based aid in these offers. The only merit offers can't be the named ones?

Someone said upthread that if you didn't get merit based aid at the time of acceptance, you will not be getting merit based aid

But the only merit-based aid given at the time of acceptance is either the Hamilton or Butler? I hope this isn't true...

Based on stalking previous Columbia threads, there is other merit based aid "masked" so to say as need-based. Since the vast majority of applicants do not qualify for need-based aid, there is no way that everyone who gets aid in the later process (when stuff comes out in April) is need-based. Also, there were definitely reports of people negotiating from $0 up to something (not tons, but something) with scholarship offers from other schools (NYU and Chi are best bargaining chips I think).

Do not lose hope yet!! Just make sure you send in all your application materials, and be prepared to negotiate your butts off as soon as you get any info (the turnaround time looked really quick since CLS releases aid info sooo late compared to most schools).

That's what I thought as well.

[RParadela]

Just want to say that admitted student days were fantastic. I am so sold on Columbia.

Really? I walked in thinking I would love Columbia, and walked out very confused. I spent some time at NYU today and liked it a lot better (leaving me very confused).

Would you mind elaborating more on what you disliked about columbia and what you liked about nyu?

Personally, I felt that the "sell" that I was given was related to the amount of money you're "guaranteed" to make if you go to Columbia. Also, it didn't help that the Columbia students I talked to said there wasn't a meaningful difference between opportunities afforded to NYU students and the ones they had, and yet they made no effort to differentiate why you would choose Columbia. The NYU students seemed to talk about the people they met, the experiences they had with professors, etc. You can go to BigLaw from so many places, why would that be your selling point? If you can go to BL for both, the community and the intangibles should matter. Hope that helps!

BigLaw isn't created equally. Columbia gives access to the top end of BigLaw that Cornell or Fordham doesn't for example.

What're your thoughts on what VA2 said about how CLS students see themselves as essentially having the same opportunities as NYU grads.

If you're aiming for BigLaw, is there really no difference in the value of a CLS degree compared with that of NYU?

So... if you're 100% set on BigLaw, then NYU (half $$) >>>>> CLS (sticker)?

I know the above question is asked 1000x times in other forums, but I think this particular thread of CLS-aspirants may provide the most "objective" answer to the above question lol

Disclaimer, I'm a 0L, so this is based on information I've gained through my parents and networking in that group and from spending way too much time on TLS reading about employment outcomes.

I don't agree that there is no difference between NYU and CLS, although I do think its a relatively small one. I'd take NYU at half-scholarship over CLS at sticker every day of the week if that's the option. But I do think that CLS bumps NYU by a few % points of class placement in its placement power in BigLaw.

[minkbrigade]

My main takeaways from speaking with current students:

This is super useful--thank you so much for taking the time to write it up!

[VA2lawschool]

Just want to say that admitted student days were fantastic. I am so sold on Columbia.

Really? I walked in thinking I would love Columbia, and walked out very confused. I spent some time at NYU today and liked it a lot better (leaving me very confused).

Would you mind elaborating more on what you disliked about columbia and what you liked about nyu?

Personally, I felt that the "sell" that I was given was related to the amount of money you're "guaranteed" to make if you go to Columbia. Also, it didn't help that the Columbia students I talked to said there wasn't a meaningful difference between opportunities afforded to NYU students and the ones they had, and yet they made no effort to differentiate why you would choose Columbia. The NYU students seemed to talk about the people they met, the experiences they had with professors, etc. You can go to BigLaw from so many places, why would that be your selling point? If you can go to BL for both, the community and the intangibles should matter. Hope that helps!

BigLaw isn't created equally. Columbia gives access to the top end of BigLaw that Cornell or Fordham doesn't for example.

What're your thoughts on what VA2 said about how CLS students see themselves as essentially having the same opportunities as NYU grads.

If you're aiming for BigLaw, is there really no difference in the value of a CLS degree compared with that of NYU?

So... if you're 100% set on BigLaw, then NYU (half $$) >>>>> CLS (sticker)?

I know the above question is asked 1000x times in other forums, but I think this particular thread of CLS-aspirants may provide the most "objective" answer to the above question lol

Disclaimer, I'm a 0L, so this is based on information I've gained through my parents and networking in that group and from spending way too much time on TLS reading about employment outcomes.

I don't agree that there is no difference between NYU and CLS, although I do think its a relatively small one. I'd take NYU at half-scholarship over CLS at sticker every day of the week if that's the option. But I do think that CLS bumps NYU by a few % points of class placement in its placement power in BigLaw.

Totally get that, but from my experience working at a V5 firm, I can tell you that they are not seen differently (perhaps there are a few snobs as partners, but even then they would see EVERYTHING as different from HYS). Percentage of BL at school this far near the top is often self-selecting.

[goldenbear2020]

I don't agree that there is no difference between NYU and CLS, although I do think its a relatively small one. I'd take NYU at half-scholarship over CLS at sticker every day of the week if that's the option. But I do think that CLS bumps NYU by a few % points of class placement in its placement power in BigLaw.

Totally get that, but from my experience working at a V5 firm, I can tell you that they are not seen differently (perhaps there are a few snobs as partners, but even then they would see EVERYTHING as different from HYS). Percentage of BL at school this far near the top is often self-selecting.

NYU's relative strength is in NYC, so that may be why they're seen at the same at your (NYC?) V5 firm. CLS has a larger edge over NYU in other markets though.

[VA2lawschool]

I don't agree that there is no difference between NYU and CLS, although I do think its a relatively small one. I'd take NYU at half-scholarship over CLS at sticker every day of the week if that's the option. But I do think that CLS bumps NYU by a few % points of class placement in its placement power in BigLaw.

Totally get that, but from my experience working at a V5 firm, I can tell you that they are not seen differently (perhaps there are a few snobs as partners, but even then they would see EVERYTHING as different from HYS). Percentage of BL at school this far near the top is often self-selecting.

NYU's relative strength is in NYC, so that may be why they're seen at the same at your (NYC?) V5 firm. CLS has a larger edge over NYU in other markets though.

Actually I'm DC!

[parcori]

Hey everyone, I was just wondering how common interview requests from Columbia are and if they are a good or bad indication for admission?

I'm pretty new to the forum so not sure if this helps but my stats are 171 LSAT score and an international qualification from the UK which leaves my GPA a giant stress inducing question mark. Depending on how you calculate it, it can range anywhere from a 3.68-3.90 and LSAC put me as an 'international superior' but I don't know what weight is placed on that. Also, I went complete February 15th.

If anyone has an interview tips, questions they were asked, or an idea that this is a good or bad sign please let me know! Thanks anyone with any information/advice