TLS c/o 2020 - In #Squad We Trust

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.

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Total votes: 12

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Sarastro

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby Sarastro » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:45 am

Keilz wrote:What are some good biopics or books about the creation of America that I can read?

I'm a fan of primary sources, so the Federalist Papers and the Antifederalist Papers + the notes of the constitutional congress are fun to read.

If you've never read anything on the subject before, there's a pretty cursory overview of some of the major players involved in the Constitution called "The Quartet" by Joseph Ellis that's pretty good for a beginner. Be sure to read some Jefferson too, to get the other side.

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Baby Gaga

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby Baby Gaga » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:46 am

I took way too long to figure out what 180 meant, and now I'm really smug that I figured it out

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Baby Gaga

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby Baby Gaga » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:49 am

Baby Gaga wrote:I took way too long to figure out what 180 meant, and now I'm really smug that I figured it out


And I posted it on 181 :(

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:50 am

Sarastro wrote:
Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash wrote:This is the age old disagreement on the application of centuries old language to the world today.

"he former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected."

To ensure peace and foreign trade in 2017, it is necessary that all states maintain some level of standardized education and that there be funding available to those seeking higher education (the lions share of the DOE).

Also I can pick pieces out of 85 articles to support my points too

The powers included in the THIRD class are those which provide for the harmony and proper intercourse among the States. Under this head might be included the particular restraints imposed on the authority of the States, and certain powers of the judicial department; but the former are reserved for a distinct class, and the latter will be particularly examined when we arrive at the structure and organization of the government.


We can have a reasonable discussion about this or you can continue being condescending, which would you prefer?

If you were referring to me with that last part, I apologize if I came off as condescending. That wasn't my intention.

That said, that is an extremely taxed view of that passage. The concern of the founders, living under the Articles government, was that states, without a stronger federal system, would spiral apart and become separate nations. This was a legitimate concern given that states had their own currencies/distinct financial systems and were practically negotiating with foreign powers on their own. For a fledgling nation that didn't agree on much, there were real concerns about the unity of the union in the 1780's. That is almost certainly the intent behind statements about harmony and intercourse between states: economic and diplomatic harmony. It's such a stretch to argue that that would include things like education, as the states at the time already had massively different educational systems and cultural backgrounds and they made such a fuss over keeping those distinct systems that Hamilton et al. had to write the Federalist Papers to convince them that the Feds weren't going to erase their states' identities.

In contrast, my passage wasn't "picked out," it is extremely representative of the writings and arguments made surrounding the constitution when it was debated and ratified. That is, in my view, unequivocally how the majority of the states viewed the constitution when they accepted it. This is held up by the debates in the states' legislatures.

You might have a point if the states would be teaching their students that the Union is evil, Texas should impose tarrifs on California, and that federal law men should be shot on sight. Those would probably be examples of things that would threaten federal unity. Things like creationism being taught in one state and evolution in another (which I will reiterate is not the primary motivation behind much criticism of the current system) don't even scratch the surface of the disparities that existed 200 years ago between states, yet those disparities weren't severe enough to be written into the Constitution or the Federalist Papers as problems. I fail to see how the concern you perceive in your passage rises above the concern I see in mine, which it would have to in order for your argument to make sense.

edit: typo


That last point was most certainly not directed at you, sorry you got caught up in the quote mention. It was directed at Canafsa who apparently believes that everyone with a different view on an issue has no knowledge of that issue.

I'm sure that when ratified the constitution, and by extension the Federalist Papers, held out a view that more closely resembled the one you presented. However, the logic and basis, as applied to 2017 takes a much different view.

I feel we will forever respectfully disagree on the living document argument and the thread seems done with this argument, so I will just say this:

The original post that drew me into this conversation was Buckeye defending (what was admittedly probably a straw man) argument that schools could begin teaching students to support the confederacy (assuming therefore to hate the union). His decision to defend that teaching style as opposed to disagreeing with the assumption is what I had most issue with.

I think you can agree that curriculum should not fly in a federal government.

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby forum_user » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:53 am

canafsa wrote:
Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash wrote:
To ensure peace and foreign trade in 2017, it is necessary that all states maintain some level of standardized education and that there be funding available to those seeking higher education (the lions share of the DOE).



Hmm, compelling. It's also necessary that new generations of tax collectors are born to facilitate the operation of the nation, so perhaps the federal government should implement a department of procreation and control that too.

Is that not essentially what abortion bans are seeking to do?

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby canafsa » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:56 am

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Last edited by canafsa on Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby canafsa » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:56 am

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Last edited by canafsa on Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby nimbus cloud » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:58 am

Every time I get an email from UBalt, I don't unsubscribe because my reasoning is that they wouldn't dare send me another one after so many. And every time they prove me wrong.

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Sarastro

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby Sarastro » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:58 am

Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash wrote:That last point was most certainly not directed at you, sorry you got caught up in the quote mention.

I'm sure that when ratified the constitution, and by extension the Federalist Papers, held out a view that more closely resembled the one you presented. However, the logic and basis, as applied to 2017 takes a much different view.

I feel we will forever respectfully disagree on the living document argument and the thread seems done with this argument, so I will just say this:

The original post that drew me into this conversation was Buckeye defending (what was admittedly probably a straw man) argument that schools could begin teaching students to support the confederacy (assuming therefore to hate the union). His decision to defend that teaching style as opposed to disagreeing with the assumption is what I had most issue with.

I think you can agree that curriculum should not fly in a federal government.

Yep, I think we're caught in the classic living document vs. use-the-damn-amendment-process argument.

As for your hypothetical, even then I'm not sure I'd want to give an answer without sitting in the classroom. There are plenty of positive things you can say about the Confederacy without denying all the absolutely horrific things that went hand in hand with them. I guess, as you say, I would feel more comfortable erring on the side of the states, as I believe that was in the intention of our system. I imagine you would feel more comfortable erring on the side of the union, as, if I can put words in your mouth, you might believe that that's the best way to ensure a successful education for even the most disadvantaged among us. I think reasonable people can be on either side of that argument.

I will now kindly return this thread to being the thin, translucent veil that covers the crippling anxiety and fear that I know and love it to be.

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby S.Picquery » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:59 am

nimbus cloud wrote:Every time I get an email from UBalt, I don't unsubscribe because my reasoning is that they wouldn't dare send me another one after so many. And every time they prove me wrong.


I just learned how many third tier schools I haven't unsubscribed from yet. Today I've been buried in snow, and useless emails.

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby Sarastro » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:01 pm

S.Picquery wrote:
nimbus cloud wrote:Every time I get an email from UBalt, I don't unsubscribe because my reasoning is that they wouldn't dare send me another one after so many. And every time they prove me wrong.


I just learned how many third tier schools I haven't unsubscribed from yet. Today I've been buried in snow, and useless emails.

So once I accept somewhere, these spam emails go away... right?

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:01 pm

canafsa wrote:The Constitution is "living" through the amendment process. Changing the meaning of the text due to the evolution of language is absurd. We don't analyze the Canterbury Tales by shoehorning in modern meaning and throwing out original intent - it'd devolve into gibberish.


The constitution is living because it continues to control daily life. If decisions in the court were being made based on the Canterbury Tales then there would be reason to apply modern meaning to them.

Eta: I'm ready to go back to shit posting about pies now
Last edited by Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash on Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby Monday » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:03 pm

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Last edited by Monday on Wed May 10, 2017 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby canafsa » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:06 pm

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Last edited by canafsa on Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby chargers21 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:08 pm

Sarastro wrote:
chargers21 wrote:A child being completely screwed based solely on where they are born within a country should not be something to strive for. I'm more into small government than most, and the one thing that needs to be overseen is education. I would be a complete moron if I had not had federal education standards forced upon my local public school. As Jstas alluded to, eliminating the DoE is solely based on some states wanting to teach anti-science. DeVos is taking a different approach, in that she wants the federal government to fund the teaching of anti-science and eliminate places that are constitutionally guarenteed to not be allowed to do that (public schools).

As someone who went to public schools, you have an extremely low opinion of yourself or an extremely inflated opinion of public schools if you think public schooling somehow single-handedly saved you from being an idiot.

I'll also just point out that there may be principled people out there who object to the existence of a federal education department on grounds other than being a hillbilly that believes the devil made fossils to trick us. Might be worth your time as an intellectually honest person to consider those ideas instead of throwing up strawmen- even if you decide in the end to disagree with them.

In my area of the country I would have certainly been taught religion in school and not been taught evolution, which is the basis of modern biology and medical sciences. I feel like, without a knowledge of evolution in the modern world, you're very much missing out on one of the basic pillars of the understanding of life. My public education might not have goven me a fine career in the priesthood, but it did make me a critical thinker capable of going to a reputable college. And it was certainly less than perfect, but I 100% believe that if my state had control over my education I would in fact have had an education that pales in comparison to what I got. It's worth noting that my argument stands on the fact that my family could not have afforded to send me to a private, secular school

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby Mr_Chukes » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:12 pm

canafsa wrote:The Constitution is "living" through the amendment process. Changing the meaning of the text due to the evolution of language is absurd. We don't analyze the Canterbury Tales by shoehorning in modern meaning and throwing out original intent - it'd devolve into gibberish.

+180

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby brinicolec » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:13 pm

I know I'm late to the Dept of Edu discussion, but as a military kid who went to schools in around seven or eight different states, the idea of each school being able to do their own thing is a complete and utter nightmare. Even with the Military Interstate Children's Compact, it was a huge pain. There's already a lot of variance in schools (quality and requirements) as it is and it puts kids who grow up like I did at a huge disadvantage. Making it so states can teach/require whatever they decide on a state-level is a HUGE cause of concern to me when I think about other students who move to different states frequently.

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby brinicolec » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:15 pm

forum_user wrote:
canafsa wrote:
Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash wrote:
To ensure peace and foreign trade in 2017, it is necessary that all states maintain some level of standardized education and that there be funding available to those seeking higher education (the lions share of the DOE).



Hmm, compelling. It's also necessary that new generations of tax collectors are born to facilitate the operation of the nation, so perhaps the federal government should implement a department of procreation and control that too.

Is that not essentially what abortion bans are seeking to do?


Pretty much. Or you could take the more cynical route and say it's a way for men to blame/punish women for something that a man also has to be a part of. OR you could say it's proof that they can't run a secular government.

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby 88234 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:49 pm

Came here for shitposts.

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby dasq5511 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:07 pm

Keilz wrote:What are some good biopics or books about the creation of America that I can read?


Highly recommend 1776 by David McCullough

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby airwrecka » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:11 pm

S.Picquery wrote:
nimbus cloud wrote:Every time I get an email from UBalt, I don't unsubscribe because my reasoning is that they wouldn't dare send me another one after so many. And every time they prove me wrong.


I just learned how many third tier schools I haven't unsubscribed from yet. Today I've been buried in snow, and useless emails.


No snow here (much to my dismay), but the e-mails keep on coming! I retook the LSAT last weekend so I was getting about 20 a day before the test wishing me luck, and now all these TTTs are writing to me like "we accept Feb scores!! fee waiver!! apply now!!!" :| :|

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby S.Picquery » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:19 pm

airwrecka wrote:
S.Picquery wrote:
nimbus cloud wrote:Every time I get an email from UBalt, I don't unsubscribe because my reasoning is that they wouldn't dare send me another one after so many. And every time they prove me wrong.


I just learned how many third tier schools I haven't unsubscribed from yet. Today I've been buried in snow, and useless emails.


No snow here (much to my dismay), but the e-mails keep on coming! I retook the LSAT last weekend so I was getting about 20 a day before the test wishing me luck, and now all these TTTs are writing to me like "we accept Feb scores!! fee waiver!! apply now!!!" :| :|


Hey, maybe they'll throw you on a cruise like Chapman. Might be worth it :P

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby quigleyest » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:46 pm

Keilz wrote:What are some good biopics or books about the creation of America that I can read?



A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn :wink:

https://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History- ... 0060838655

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby Rigo » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:47 pm

Work cancelled = me starting at my phone waiting for west coast schools to call while binge eating in my kitchen.

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (wearable gadgets poll)

Postby airwrecka » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:48 pm

quigleyest wrote:
Keilz wrote:What are some good biopics or books about the creation of America that I can read?



A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn :wink:

https://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History- ... 0060838655


hehehe I'm reading this right now. wanted to suggest it, but didn't feel like fanning the flames of argument :lol:



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