TLS c/o 2020 - In #Squad We Trust

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.

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Total votes: 12

Keilz

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby Keilz » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:12 pm

RParadela wrote:It's been a slow week so far. And next week we enter into February territory where a lot more dings and WLs come out :cry:


I'm literally only waiting for my top two choices that this point and am ready for anything.

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Torres1893

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby Torres1893 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:38 pm

Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

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brinicolec

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby brinicolec » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:23 pm

theboringest wrote:
jjcorvino wrote:"#lawschool applicants down -1.7, applications down -0.3."

https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult/statu ... 2540736512

Pretty clear it's going to be a down cycle overall. The percent changes in bands will tell us how it might impact admissions and/or $$$.


So if this is the case, why are some schools (Cornell, Berkeley) denying some applicants with bomb numbers :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: lol

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brinicolec

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby brinicolec » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:27 pm

Torres1893 wrote:Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0


I skimmed so, if I misunderstood let me know... But are they saying a good debt-salary ratio is around a 1.4-1.5% higher salary than debt incurred?

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carlos_danger

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby carlos_danger » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:30 pm

brinicolec wrote:
Torres1893 wrote:Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0


I skimmed so, if I misunderstood let me know... But are they saying a good debt-salary ratio is around a 1.4-1.5% higher salary than debt incurred?


No, I think they mean salary = 1.5*debt. Like 150%

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Kopetz

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby Kopetz » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:31 pm

Torres1893 wrote:Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0


wait lmao the same company owns florida coastal, charlotte law, and arizona summit? what a racket

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brinicolec

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby brinicolec » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:32 pm

carlos_danger wrote:
brinicolec wrote:
Torres1893 wrote:Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0


I skimmed so, if I misunderstood let me know... But are they saying a good debt-salary ratio is around a 1.4-1.5% higher salary than debt incurred?


No, I think they mean salary = 1.5*debt. Like 150%


Ah, yeah yeah I could see that being what it meant.

I mean... I don't think it's necessarily a generally good debt-salary ratio, but perhaps relative to the legal profession/the debt most students incur, it is.

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brinicolec

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby brinicolec » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:34 pm

Kopetz wrote:
Torres1893 wrote:Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0


wait lmao the same company owns florida coastal, charlotte law, and arizona summit? what a racket


Yeah, I was reading an article that was talking about Charlotte Law like "What can they do now" and one of the options was that Florida Coastal was considering absorbing Charlotte Law students because it's their sister school and I was like :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

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RParadela

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby RParadela » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:35 pm

Torres1893 wrote:Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0


I think it pretty much mirrors what TLS preaches about not attending at sticker

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Sarastro

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby Sarastro » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:48 pm

Torres1893 wrote:Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

Salary to debt is definitely something to consider, but the article doesn't delve too deeply into questions about marketability beyond salary. TLS I think does a pretty good job of saying "If you know you want to live and work in City X, don't feel like you need to go to Yale if there's a regional that places well there." But if I have no idea where I want to work or if I need some flexibility, I don't know if Brigham Young is going to be as attractive as a T14, even if it costs a little more.

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Kopetz

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby Kopetz » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:52 pm

Sarastro wrote:
Torres1893 wrote:Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

Salary to debt is definitely something to consider, but the article doesn't delve too deeply into questions about marketability beyond salary. TLS I think does a pretty good job of saying "If you know you want to live and work in City X, don't feel like you need to go to Yale if there's a regional that places well there." But if I have no idea where I want to work or if I need some flexibility, I don't know if Brigham Young is going to be as attractive as a T14, even if it costs a little more.


BYU gets a lot less affordable if you're not LDS, too. Your job outcomes would also probably suffer.
Last edited by Kopetz on Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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alpha kenny body

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby alpha kenny body » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:56 pm

Do not attend BYU if you are not Mormon. You're gonna have a bad time.

ponderingmeerkat

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby ponderingmeerkat » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:11 pm

fips tedora wrote:Do not attend BYU if you are not Mormon. You're gonna have a bad time.


Same goes for Liberty/Regent Law Schools unless you're an evangelical. Or Ave Maria unless you're Catholic.

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Kopetz

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby Kopetz » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:16 pm

ponderingmeerkat wrote:
fips tedora wrote:Do not attend BYU if you are not Mormon. You're gonna have a bad time.


Same goes for Liberty/Regent Law Schools unless even if you're an evangelical. Or Ave Maria unless even if you're Catholic.


ftfy. BYU might actually be a good option for a member of the LDS church, especially if they want to remain in that community and work in Utah/Nevada/Idaho. I can't think of a situation where Liberty/Regent/Ave Maria would be a reasonable choice.

ponderingmeerkat

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby ponderingmeerkat » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:24 pm

Kopetz wrote:
ponderingmeerkat wrote:
fips tedora wrote:Do not attend BYU if you are not Mormon. You're gonna have a bad time.


Same goes for Liberty/Regent Law Schools unless even if you're an evangelical. Or Ave Maria unless even if you're Catholic.


ftfy. BYU might actually be a good option for a member of the LDS church, especially if they want to remain in that community and work in Utah/Nevada/Idaho. I can't think of a situation where Liberty/Regent/Ave Maria would be a reasonable choice.


Sorry...thought we were talking about the quality of the "time" you'd have at these schools. If having a good time = employable, then yea...cosign.

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Gitaroo_Dude

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby Gitaroo_Dude » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:29 pm

Kopetz wrote:
ponderingmeerkat wrote:
fips tedora wrote:Do not attend BYU if you are not Mormon. You're gonna have a bad time.


Same goes for Liberty/Regent Law Schools unless even if you're an evangelical. Or Ave Maria unless even if you're Catholic.
I can't think of a situation where Liberty/Regent/Ave Maria would be a reasonable choice.


Eh, I could see Liberty becoming a feeder school for the Trump administration. Stranger things have happened.

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Kopetz

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby Kopetz » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:34 pm

Gitaroo_Dude wrote:
Kopetz wrote:
ponderingmeerkat wrote:
fips tedora wrote:Do not attend BYU if you are not Mormon. You're gonna have a bad time.


Same goes for Liberty/Regent Law Schools unless even if you're an evangelical. Or Ave Maria unless even if you're Catholic.
I can't think of a situation where Liberty/Regent/Ave Maria would be a reasonable choice.


Eh, I could see Liberty becoming a feeder school for the Trump administration. Stranger things have happened.


As far as I know their higher achievers place decently into things like RW think-tanks and religious lobbying organizations, but unless the rest have all adopted anchorite asceticism their job opportunities are pretty poor

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Mr_Chukes

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby Mr_Chukes » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:48 pm

Torres1893 wrote:Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

Yeah but how many of those people who attend those schools actually get jobs?

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Kopetz

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby Kopetz » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:10 pm

Mr_Chukes wrote:
Torres1893 wrote:Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

Yeah but how many of those people who attend those schools actually get jobs?


There's a reason they use the average:
[+] Spoiler
Image

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brinicolec

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby brinicolec » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:33 pm

Kopetz wrote:
Mr_Chukes wrote:
Torres1893 wrote:Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

Yeah but how many of those people who attend those schools actually get jobs?


There's a reason they use the average:
[+] Spoiler
Image


Is that just a report of ALL lawyers who reported their salary or...?

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Kopetz

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby Kopetz » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:37 pm

brinicolec wrote:
Kopetz wrote:
Mr_Chukes wrote:
Torres1893 wrote:Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

Yeah but how many of those people who attend those schools actually get jobs?


There's a reason they use the average:
[+] Spoiler
Image


Is that just a report of ALL lawyers who reported their salary or...?


NALP reports that "[the] graph is based on 22,095 salaries reported for full-time jobs lasting a year or more"

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brinicolec

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby brinicolec » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:41 pm

Kopetz wrote:
brinicolec wrote:
Kopetz wrote:
Mr_Chukes wrote:
Torres1893 wrote:Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

Yeah but how many of those people who attend those schools actually get jobs?


There's a reason they use the average:
[+] Spoiler
Image


Is that just a report of ALL lawyers who reported their salary or...?


NALP reports that "[the] graph is based on 22,095 salaries reported for full-time jobs lasting a year or more"[/quote

Any idea what percentage of salaries were reported as compared to the actual # of those jobs?

Either way, doesn't surprise me. I feel like the two most popular options (based on the discussions you see here) are BL or public interest work. Public interest work average salary is around that first peak, BL average salary (prior to the recent increase) is the second peak. It's interesting how much those BL salaries can skew the avg. lol

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Kopetz

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby Kopetz » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:45 pm

brinicolec wrote:
Kopetz wrote:
brinicolec wrote:
Kopetz wrote: (quotes pruned)

There's a reason they use the average:
[+] Spoiler
Image


Is that just a report of ALL lawyers who reported their salary or...?


NALP reports that "[the] graph is based on 22,095 salaries reported for full-time jobs lasting a year or more"


Any idea what percentage of salaries were reported as compared to the actual # of those jobs?

Either way, doesn't surprise me. I feel like the two most popular options (based on the discussions you see here) are BL or public interest work. Public interest work average salary is around that first peak, BL average salary (prior to the recent increase) is the second peak. It's interesting how much those BL salaries can skew the avg. lol


That's a great question. I'm looking around for any documentation on the study's methodology but haven't found anything yet. Just looking at the 2019 LSAT/GPA spreadsheet from the applications forum, it looks like 22,000 is slightly lower than the total aggregate class size of the top 100 schools (appx. 25-26k new students/year.)

Edited to add: This data gets a little closer to contextualizing the bimodal salary graph. The employment status was known for 96.1% of the class of 2014 (the year of the graph I posted,) indicating 36,530 known jobs for 43,832 graduates. My best guess at the 22,095 salaries used for the graph is that those are qualifying respondents from among the 36,530 employed. No idea what the breakdown is regarding how many of those 14,435 just didn't respond, weren't full-time employees, etc.
Last edited by Kopetz on Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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guynourmin

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby guynourmin » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:53 pm

Anyone know when the c/o 2020 boards go up? should be before admitted students days, right?

Npret

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Re: TLS c/o 2020 Applicants (taking poll suggestions)

Postby Npret » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:04 pm

I'm just curious is that famous bimodal curve news to you?

The bimodal curve has been around for years. Most grads go to small firms, it's not just biglaw or PI. The data is based on reports that schools collect from grads.

LST explains the NALP data but it's pretty much exactly what it says. https://www.lstreports.com/guides/NALP-Data-Terms/

It's a very simple calculation.

Here's the link:
http://www.nalp.org/uploads/ERSS/employ ... lation.pdf



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