Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.
b78
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:34 pm

Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby b78 » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:44 pm

What do you think?

User avatar
luckynumber8s
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:06 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby luckynumber8s » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:08 pm

TTT. After a lot of research (I really wanted to move to Chicago) - I've determined that if you can't get into NU or UCHI then it's really not worth going to law school in Chicago.

Because that legal market in Chicago is DOMINATED (check law firms in Chicago from NALP) by NU and UCHI, followed by Michigan, ND, followed by other T14's students who want to practice in Chicago, followed by T35 law schools in the midwest such as UIowa, UWisc. THEN, they might look at Loyola or Kent....

A JD from Loyola or Kent doesn't carry any weight nationally either, and you're kinda screwed no matter what.

Sammyler
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 10:35 am

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby Sammyler » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:48 pm

TTT? The leiter rankings put Kent at 37. They are top 30 in terms of faculty productivity. The only reason that Kent kind of struggles is that they are not connected to a huge parent university. Vault says they are the 4th most underrated university. They have partners at some of the largest law firms in the U.S. like Skadden, Arps, Slate Meagher and Flom.

I'm not saying that you are not going to lose out to NU, and UofC grads on more than one occasion, but if you can graduate in the top 10 percent you'll be pulling down six figures.

If you're picking between the two and you want to do Biglaw, I'd say kent. I would only do Loyola if i was going to do health care law.

paisley
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:51 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby paisley » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:01 pm

"TTT. After a lot of research (I really wanted to move to Chicago) - I've determined that if you can't get into NU or UCHI then it's really not worth going to law school in Chicago."

this is obnoxious and uninformed. if one wants to go BIGLAW, it will be an uphill battle from loyola. that being said, i personally know of loyola grads at skadden and other BIGLAW firms. besides that, i have lived here my entire life and know for a fact that the city of chicago and the north shore are filled with happy, successful loyola law grads. that is not to say there are not people struggling, but you can say that of people in any field. and if one does not want to go into BIGLAW, certainly it is still "worth going," especially if you can get a scholarship or do not have to worry about debt.

anyway, my vote goes to loyola over kent, but only because of its deeper alumni and more recognizable name - while kent is certainly making a name for itself, it has only more recently begun to do so.

User avatar
luckynumber8s
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:06 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby luckynumber8s » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:23 pm

if one wants to go BIGLAW, it will be an uphill battle from loyola

That's all I'm I'm saying. Don't get butthurt.

paisley
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:51 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby paisley » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:37 pm

"That's all I'm saying. Don't get butthurt."

classy.

and that isn't all you were saying, what you were saying was that it wasn't "worth going to law school blah blah blah." if that had been all you were saying, i would not have bothered commenting.

nice avatar.

User avatar
luckynumber8s
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:06 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby luckynumber8s » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:55 pm

How is paying 100K+ worth a piece of toilet paper stamped with "JD, Kent 2011" ??

saxwizerd
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:24 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby saxwizerd » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:09 am

luckynumber8s wrote:How is paying 100K+ worth a piece of toilet paper stamped with "JD, Kent 2011" ??


Wait... is this xoxo? I must be in the wrong place...

As far as the OP's question goes, I've applied to both, and what I've come to think is that Kent might just be the better value. They have a unique (as in very very good) legal writing program.

paisley
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:51 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby paisley » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:32 am

"How is paying 100K+ worth a piece of toilet paper stamped with "JD, Kent 2011" ??"

maybe you could relocate to a different site if your posts in this thread are indicative of what you have to offer.

paisley
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:51 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby paisley » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:37 am

anyway, back on topic. i have applied to both as "desirable safeties" if that makes sense, and was offered a scholarship at loyola, while i have not yet heard back form kent. if i do decide to attend one of the two, it may come down to who offers the most money. i am not sure how quantififable the differences are, despite my earlier post about loyola having a deeper alumni base and more recognizable name.

User avatar
luckynumber8s
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:06 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby luckynumber8s » Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:56 am

Ok, sorry if I came off as rude. But I think people should know that their chances of breaking into BigLaw are slim to none from those schools. I think anybody who is going to make a considerably large investment should fully be aware of all the risks in that investment. You're entitled to your opinion, but don't hate the player, hate the game. From the research I've seen, it seems most sources rate Loyola or Kent as weak investment. Perhaps you're plan on doing something else besides BigLaw, but FYI, your student loan payment will top $1000 each month and you can't declare bankruptcy. I sincerely believe these law schools are not worth $100K+, and I highly discourage anyone from going, even as a "safety school". I would instead focus all my energy into scoring a higher LSAT score in hopes of making it into a T25 school.

Also, keep in mind you're losing 3 of the best years of your life in addition to the tuition spent.

b78
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby b78 » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:27 am

Luckynumber8s,

Your comments represent a kind of school snobbery and immaturity that runs rampant in the legal world. I urge you to ditch that attitude now, before you offend grads of lower ranked schools who are in a position to help or hurt your own career.

I've worked for large Chicago law firms the last seven years and can assure you that there are many, many graduates of Loyola, Kent and other non-top 25 law schools. And not in the sense of, “sure, you can always find exceptions to every rule.” Rather, there truly are a ton of high-paid, successful lawyers from non-top 25 schools.

These days, do people from lower ranked schools need to be in the top of their classes to land jobs at huge firms? In most cases, yes. But that’s not to say that students who don’t graduate from a Loyola or Kent in the top of their class won’t find a good job at all; and if it’s a huge law firm they desire, that they won’t be able to make a move within the first few years of their legal career. And it’s certainly not to say that there’s no reason to go to these schools at all!

If your only goal with law school is to easily slide into a job at a large law firm, without regard for your performance in law school, by all means keep taking the LSAT over and over and delaying law school until you can get into a school with a name and rank you find acceptable. I hope I do get into a higher ranked school than Loyola or Kent, but if I don’t I certainly won’t let it delay me from going to law school!

User avatar
Oklahoma Mike
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:48 am

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby Oklahoma Mike » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:22 pm

Well, I don't think it's entirely snobbery or immaturity- though I think the way it was said is a bit immature.

But- saying that Chicago is a crowded market and that prospects for those coming out of Kent or Loyola are bad enough for anyone outside of the top third that neither are worth the money invested isn't really bad advice. I may very well end up at one of those schools- however I understand that my shot at a financially lucrative job after school are small. It's an especially big risk if you are paying sticker price at either school. It means you are going to come out with lots of debt, and that applicants with higher numbers are there and will likely take the top spots.
So, if your goal is to be financially secure, then Loyola or Kent may not be the best option and it would make sense to even do something other than law school.

b78
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby b78 » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:35 pm

Oklahoma Mike - That's not exactly right. Your chances will be small for your first job out, but your first job is just that: your first job.

User avatar
luckynumber8s
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:06 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby luckynumber8s » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:38 pm

I've worked for large Chicago law firms the last seven years and can assure you that there are many, many graduates of Loyola, Kent and other non-top 25 law schools.

Funny, every lawyer I've talked to, every law school ranking, every blog, forum, tells me otherwise.
that they won’t be able to make a move within the first few years of their legal career.

Wow. For working in law firms for 7 years, it's embarrassing how little you know. Lateral moves in law are almost never possible for associates. Most BigLaw have up and out policies, many explicitly state their policies of not hiring laterally on their H/R page. You might take a partner position at a smaller firm or even start your own firm - but you will never move from SmallLaw to BigLaw.
Your comments represent a kind of school snobbery and immaturity that runs rampant in the legal world

Doesn't change anything - I'm still 100% correct and you are still uninformed. To date, the LSAT is the most accurate indicator of how well a candidate will do in law school. If you can't muster a LSAT score good enough for T25, how can you expect you'll be in the top 10% of your class?

b78
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby b78 » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:43 pm

Lucky - Your just wrong about firms in Chicago. Seriously, browse through the attorney profiles on the websites of the biggest firms in the city and you'll see that there are more lawyers than you think from lower tier, local law schools.

As for lateral moves, it happens ALL THE TIME. Show me an HR policy that says they won't.

b78
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby b78 » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:48 pm

And to prove my point, I picked a random large law firm in Chicago - Winston & Strawn - and looked through their Chicago attorney profiles.

They have 29 attorneys from Loyola, 9 from Kent and 31 from DePaul. And if you click on their names, you'll find that many of those people moved over from other, often smaller firms.

User avatar
luckynumber8s
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:06 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby luckynumber8s » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:54 pm

EDIT: I give up, whatever. Good for you. Do whatever your heart desires. For anybody else reading this - do your research and make an educated decision about TTT schools in Chicago.
Last edited by luckynumber8s on Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Oklahoma Mike
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:48 am

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby Oklahoma Mike » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:56 pm

Oh, I completely agree that lateral moves happen- they just don't happen for everybody and they aren't always great. You aren't really going to jump into partner track at a V50 firm on a move from a small law firm very often at all.
You can certainly improve your career as it progresses- but whether you will be better off than you would be in an entirely different career is questionable- especially with the debt. I think all three, (Kent, Loyola, and DePaul) would be just fine- but not for all career goals. I wouldn't tell someone to just not go to school if those were the options but I do understand that advice and don't think it's absurd. I would give that advice (of simply not going to law school) if the options were John Marshal and Northern Illinois. With the options being the three second tier schools I'd just say "Be careful and think about if this is what you really want to do. Make sure you know what you're getting and that it's worth it."

b78
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby b78 » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:59 pm

OK Mike makes lots of sense.

Also, here's an interesting article (from 2005, from still very relevant) about just how prevalent lateral moves in Chicago have become.

http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/new ... 18cdlb.htm

jelly
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:32 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby jelly » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:32 pm

Kent. It's a better school than Loyola, and Loyola is in decline.

User avatar
thinkbig
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:59 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby thinkbig » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:31 pm

jelly wrote:Kent. It's a better school than Loyola, and Loyola is in decline.


Where does DePaul fit in, iyo?

lewis louis
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby lewis louis » Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:12 pm

jelly wrote:Kent. It's a better school than Loyola, and Loyola is in decline.


How do you figure? In the newest rankings Loyola jumped both Depaul and Chicago-Kent. That hardly constitutes being in a decline.

User avatar
thinkbig
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:59 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby thinkbig » Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:25 pm

jelly wrote:Kent. It's a better school than Loyola, and Loyola is in decline.


Eh... they're both good. It's really a matter of opinion.

abceasy
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Loyola Chicago vs Kent

Postby abceasy » Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:40 pm

I am from Chicago and I went to U Chicago for undergrad. I've worked for both the gov't and at a large, private law firm. These are my observations:

-Loyola, Kent, and DePaul are pretty well respected in Chicago. I would say Kent is the most respected, but then again it depends who's interviewing you. Maybe he/she is a Loyola alum.

-There is a ton of competition for Chicago law jobs from top schools. NU, Chicago, Michigan, WUSTL, ND, and U of I grads are all going to be given preference (their degrees, that is) over grads from Loyola, Kent, JMLS, etc. Whoever said BigLaw from these schools is "uphill battle" was understating it.

-Chicago is also flooded with grads from lower tier schools. There are a lot in this area and Chicago is the biggest law market in the Midwest. There's a lot of competition from schools at this level.

-Unfortunately, Loyola and Kent both are kind of in crappy/weird areas. They're safe, they're OK, but they're separated from their undergrad institutions and it will feel more like going to work than school. For instance, Kent is in the loop near Ogilvie Transpo Center. Nobody is there other than during business hours. No bars, no stores, etc. Just make sure you know what you're signing up for.




Return to “Law School Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 20171lhopeful, blackpi, canafsa, Christinabruin, crimsonknight, genjustice, jdanz, jstans, LawSchoolTitan, Lmorina126, malysh, maybeman, MSNbot Media, notsolawful, tinafeyclone, Why??? and 29 guests