Washington and Lee C/O 2017, Applicants Thread (2013-2014) Forum

[CJ Cregg]

Me too!

[CJ Cregg]

Me too!

And I'm in

[maple22]

Just got accepted via status checker!

[apartius]

Waitlisted

[Attax]

Hey guys, I was accepted about a month ago. Anyone hear anything regarding $$$ yet?

[Elegavie]

I just checked my status checker and it says "Scholarship Award Mailed" with 1/15 as the date. So presumably we should start hearing pretty soon.

[lawskewl13]

I just checked my status checker and it says "Scholarship Award Mailed" with 1/15 as the date. So presumably we should start hearing pretty soon.

Same. Hoping for some big $$!

[Attax]

Oh hey me too!!!

[Creditisgood]

I am in.

[lhanvt13]

Recent announcement states that, at least for current scholarship holders (current 1Ls-3Ls), there will no longer be a GPA stipulation. IMO, probably going to be the same for you guys. Good luck.

[Attax]

Recent announcement states that, at least for current scholarship holders (current 1Ls-3Ls), there will no longer be a GPA stipulation. IMO, probably going to be the same for you guys. Good luck.

Yeah, i checked the web site, under our admitted students page it says "in good standing"

[lhanvt13]

Recent announcement states that, at least for current scholarship holders (current 1Ls-3Ls), there will no longer be a GPA stipulation. IMO, probably going to be the same for you guys. Good luck.

Yeah, i checked the web site, under our admitted students page it says "in good standing"

Good god, there's gonna be droves of new 1Ls coming in next year...

[Attax]

Recent announcement states that, at least for current scholarship holders (current 1Ls-3Ls), there will no longer be a GPA stipulation. IMO, probably going to be the same for you guys. Good luck.

Yeah, i checked the web site, under our admitted students page it says "in good standing"

Good god, there's gonna be droves of new 1Ls coming in next year...

Why do you say that? They're just adapting a policy many schools have been.

Although, with good money, I'd be convinced to go if Texas doesn't match.

[Creditisgood]

Applied to WL because it is ranked 26. I am in. I never heard of the name before applying. I am now looking at the employment score and I am perplex. How do they manage to be 26?
According to LST their employment score is 49pct.
WM at 73pct is ranked 33
BC at 65pct is 31
Fordham at 62pct is 38
WL at 49pct is 26

[Attax]

Because if you think USNWR rankings = job outcomes outside the T14/T20 (depending on how liberal you are with these things), you're gonna have a bad time.

[PattyCake]

Applied to WL because it is ranked 26. I am in. I never heard of the name before applying. I am now looking at the employment score and I am perplex. How do they manage to be 26?
According to LST their employment score is 49pct.
WM at 73pct is ranked 33
BC at 65pct is 31
Fordham at 62pct is 38
WL at 49pct is 26

I don't know specifically why their numbers are so low at W&L, but don't forget that schools report employment differently. It may be that they go the extra mile to get responses from more graduates (excluding those who don't respond immediately keeps the percentages higher because those who don't respond are more likely to be unemployed). If that's the case, schools with lower numbers may simply be offering a more realistic snapshot of their success with job placement.

More importantly, a lot of schools inflate their statistics. For example (and this is pretty common), many schools, as they approach the reporting deadline, contact grads who are unemployed and say "Hey, you're not working at the moment and we have a few weeks work as an [insert law-related temp position here, eg. Admissions Ambassador, etc]." They offer a nice paycheck for 2 weeks of easy work, so plenty of unemployed grads accept. Then those grads are technically employed in JD-required jobs (because guess who writes the requirements for "Admissions Ambassador?") for the two weeks during which the stats are reported (the only time those people have to be employed in order to be counted). There's no requirement that those jobs be permanent, they just have to be current at the time the stats are released. Now they have higher employment numbers, you have one excellent pay period dotting a sea of joblessness, and next year's applicants think "Hey, I should apply there because so many of their graduates have jobs!"

Honestly, the craziness about the lack of law jobs is understandable, but reactionary. It's all cyclical, like in any other field. Look how many schools have lowered class sizes (the only way in which application numbers really relates to your getting a job after graduating). Give it a few years (like, maybe 3?) and you will see a lot of jobs opening up. Don't forget that even after the first wave of the legal job market crisis, when things started to improve, many jobs went back to experienced lawyers who'd been laid off or unable to get a job after graduation. By 3 years from now it's very likely that a HUGE majority of the new jobs will be going to new graduates again. This happens in every field, every 10-20 years or so depending on the field - law just isn't exempt from it anymore.

Just my opinion, but it's based on a pretty good understanding of higher ed trends.

[Attax]

Applied to WL because it is ranked 26. I am in. I never heard of the name before applying. I am now looking at the employment score and I am perplex. How do they manage to be 26?
According to LST their employment score is 49pct.
WM at 73pct is ranked 33
BC at 65pct is 31
Fordham at 62pct is 38
WL at 49pct is 26

I don't know specifically why their numbers are so low at W&L, but don't forget that schools report employment differently. It may be that they go the extra mile to get responses from more graduates (excluding those who don't respond immediately keeps the percentages higher because those who don't respond are more likely to be unemployed). If that's the case, schools with lower numbers may simply be offering a more realistic snapshot of their success with job placement.

More importantly, a lot of schools inflate their statistics. For example (and this is pretty common), many schools, as they approach the reporting deadline, contact grads who are unemployed and say "Hey, you're not working at the moment and we have a few weeks work as an [insert law-related temp position here, eg. Admissions Ambassador, etc]." They offer a nice paycheck for 2 weeks of easy work, so plenty of unemployed grads accept. Then those grads are technically employed in JD-required jobs (because guess who writes the requirements for "Admissions Ambassador?") for the two weeks during which the stats are reported (the only time those people have to be employed in order to be counted). There's no requirement that those jobs be permanent, they just have to be current at the time the stats are released. Now they have higher employment numbers, you have one excellent pay period dotting a sea of joblessness, and next year's applicants think "Hey, I should apply there because so many of their graduates have jobs!"

Honestly, the craziness about the lack of law jobs is understandable, but reactionary. It's all cyclical, like in any other field. Look how many schools have lowered class sizes (the only way in which application numbers really relates to your getting a job after graduating). Give it a few years (like, maybe 3?) and you will see a lot of jobs opening up. Don't forget that even after the first wave of the legal job market crisis, when things started to improve, many jobs went back to experienced lawyers who'd been laid off or unable to get a job after graduation. By 3 years from now it's very likely that a HUGE majority of the new jobs will be going to new graduates again. This happens in every field, every 10-20 years or so depending on the field - law just isn't exempt from it anymore.

Just my opinion, but it's based on a pretty good understanding of higher ed trends.

Good to hear as someone that will be graduating in 3 years!

Also, something to consider, is W&L's size may influence things. Less alumni=less connections. For every unemployed/undermployed person that is nearly 1-2% so can make a significant difference fast, especially if they aren't even seeking employment.

[jk148706]

Give it a few years (like, maybe 3?) and you will see a lot of jobs opening up. Don't forget that even after the first wave of the legal job market crisis, when things started to improve, many jobs went back to experienced lawyers who'd been laid off or unable to get a job after graduation. By 3 years from now it's very likely that a HUGE majority of the new jobs will be going to new graduates again. This happens in every field, every 10-20 years or so depending on the field - law just isn't exempt from it anymore.

Idk.. I don't see any evidence to support this theory that the jobs will just come back

[PattyCake]

Give it a few years (like, maybe 3?) and you will see a lot of jobs opening up. Don't forget that even after the first wave of the legal job market crisis, when things started to improve, many jobs went back to experienced lawyers who'd been laid off or unable to get a job after graduation. By 3 years from now it's very likely that a HUGE majority of the new jobs will be going to new graduates again. This happens in every field, every 10-20 years or so depending on the field - law just isn't exempt from it anymore.

Idk.. I don't see any evidence to support this theory that the jobs will just come back

It's not about "coming back," it's about who they're going to. You won't see any past evidence in the legal job market, because this is the first time the field has been subject to this - there's no history for it. Don't forget, this hasn't been going on as long as it seems, it's one period that hasn't ended yet in a new type of cycle. If you want supporting evidence, look how law schools are responding (or being urged to respond) to the crisis. All the changes that are being made, from laying off faculty and lowering salaries to cutting class sizes and program length (2 year programs are going to spring up left and right in the next few years), is bringing legal education more in line with other types of grad schools. And if you look at all educational trends instead of just the one, you see that law is no longer nearly as far off from other fields as they once were - jobs are just low, it's not only law jobs.

[lhanvt13]

I can't say about the employment statistics mainly because I don't know anybody from that class personally, but most current students I've spoken to have offers from the type of employment that they've been gunning for (big law and a few big PI with a sprinkle of gov).

Keep in mind that this is just my experience from talking to people I've met and is not a comprehensive sample size.

In response to attax and related comments, yeah many schools have been getting rid of their hard GPA cutoffs for scholarships. I just think that a lot of prospective students decide not to go to certain schools because they're afraid to lose their scholarship, which is completely rational. I feel like W&L always had a "good standing" policy despite their GPA cutoff because hardly anyone has lost their scholarship in the past, like, 10 years. Maybe they're really good at picking out students who are going to do well in law school and barely any of those students end up below the cutoff but that's highly unlikely.
The droves comment was mainly referring to the type of people that usually wouldn't have accepted but likely would have given the change in circumstance. They're likely going to give out scholarships to a smaller number of people so that, even if a larger number of people accept, the total number of students will still even out.

Although, with good money, I'd be convinced to go if Texas doesn't match.

Where do you want to work/what do you want to do. IMO, I'd say don't even think about w&l if UT matches scholly, unless you want to work in Virginia.

Also, to note. I've never heard of a single person being able to negotiate scholly with W&L. They just don't budge.

[Attax]

Although, with good money, I'd be convinced to go if Texas doesn't match.

Where do you want to work/what do you want to do. IMO, I'd say don't even think about w&l if UT matches scholly, unless you want to work in Virginia.

Also, to note. I've never heard of a single person being able to negotiate scholly with W&L. They just don't budge.

I thought the rest was good commentary, but that's good to know they don't budge. I'm not expecting them to give a full ride, but they've definitely been pulling some interest recently. And I don't care about where I work. I spent my whole life moving every 4 years or so, so don't have any strong ties anywhere other than I've been in Texas the past 8ish years.

[Attax]

Bumpity bump bump bump with $35k/year!

Numbers in profile
Stips: Good standing.

[logical seasoning]

Accepted just over a month ago and got scholly info right now.

40,000 a year, no stips
3.8/167

[Attax]

Accepted just over a month ago and got scholly info right now.

40,000 a year, no stips
3.8/167

Congrats! Feels nice to get some worthwhile money from somewhere! I appreciate that W&L is just throwing lots of money rather than waitlisting me like other places.

[monsterman]

Accepted just over a month ago and got scholly info right now.

40,000 a year, no stips
3.8/167

Samesies.