USD c/o 2017 Forum

[jfern]

Recently withdrew, putting $105,000 back into the pot. Hope my fellow TLSers benefit from it!

[rodmanhust]

Did anyone succeed in scholarship negotiations? If so, to whom did you address your request, and how long did it take them to process it? I'm strongly considering USD at this point, but if they threw a few more bones my way it'd be a no-brainer.

Dean Garcia is the one to contact.

Good to hear, that's what I did. Have you been accepted/tried negotiating already?

i talked to him in person; but didn't get anything.

[bkegslounge]

Did anyone succeed in scholarship negotiations? If so, to whom did you address your request, and how long did it take them to process it? I'm strongly considering USD at this point, but if they threw a few more bones my way it'd be a no-brainer.

Dean Garcia is the one to contact.

Good to hear, that's what I did. Have you been accepted/tried negotiating already?

i talked to him in person; but didn't get anything.

Care to elaborate on the conversation, please? What were his reasons? Did you have competitive offers? etc

[rodmanhust]

my softs are strong, but LSAT not high enough. and that's the dominating factor.

[emitremmus]

my softs are strong, but LSAT not high enough. and that's the dominating factor.

Garcia is one straight shooter.

[onlyunholy]

my softs are strong, but LSAT not high enough. and that's the dominating factor.

Garcia is one straight shooter.

The ASW was wonderful. Garcia's financial aid presentation was candid, and the campus was of course lovely. Garcia is the best dean I've personally spoken to -- really appreciated his straight forward approach.

[bkegslounge]

Hey everyone. I created a "USD Class of 2017" thread in the c/o 2017 forum. Check it out if you've submitted your 1st deposit or plan on attending.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 8&t=227693

[bkegslounge]

my softs are strong, but LSAT not high enough. and that's the dominating factor.

Garcia is one straight shooter.

Sent him an email to negotiate my scholarship offer. He basically went point by point countering everything I said. USD's offer is definitely the best I have so I wasn't expecting him to budge but I still wanted to try. He didn't mention my point about tuition increases though which was interesting... Said he'd keep me in mind if they still have money in the pot come summertime. I'll probably send him another email after the 2nd deposit deadline.

[paayter]

my softs are strong, but LSAT not high enough. and that's the dominating factor.

Garcia is one straight shooter.

Sent him an email to negotiate my scholarship offer. He basically went point by point countering everything I said. USD's offer is definitely the best I have so I wasn't expecting him to budge but I still wanted to try. He didn't mention my point about tuition increases though which was interesting... Said he'd keep me in mind if they still have money in the pot come summertime. I'll probably send him another email after the 2nd deposit deadline.

Honestly, I think the dude is dancing around the issues. He told me my gpa was too low, so he's going to try and get you anywhere. I just withdrew when he said that. The San Diego market is small and orange county i believe is dominated by los angeles schools. Good luck everyone at SD 80k plus back in the pot.

[bkegslounge]

my softs are strong, but LSAT not high enough. and that's the dominating factor.

Garcia is one straight shooter.

Sent him an email to negotiate my scholarship offer. He basically went point by point countering everything I said. USD's offer is definitely the best I have so I wasn't expecting him to budge but I still wanted to try. He didn't mention my point about tuition increases though which was interesting... Said he'd keep me in mind if they still have money in the pot come summertime. I'll probably send him another email after the 2nd deposit deadline.

Honestly, I think the dude is dancing around the issues. He told me my gpa was too low, so he's going to try and get you anywhere. I just withdrew when he said that. The San Diego market is small and orange county i believe is dominated by los angeles schools. Good luck everyone at SD 80k plus back in the pot.

He just said USD's offer was better than the ones I sent him from other schools which was true. and then said my offer is consistent with other applicants of my caliber so if he increased mine then he'd have to increase everyone else's at that "level." Sounds like a bunch of bull to me...

Should I send a response? I'm thinking about saying well even with your offer I'll still have to take out X amount in loans which would cost me ~ Y over 3 years. I would like to bring that down to Z before committing. My GPA is >75th % and LSAT is just above the median so I'll definitely help him get his medians. Not sure if I should push it at this point. Might just wait til the June deposit deadline.

[aco227]

my softs are strong, but LSAT not high enough. and that's the dominating factor.

Garcia is one straight shooter.

Sent him an email to negotiate my scholarship offer. He basically went point by point countering everything I said. USD's offer is definitely the best I have so I wasn't expecting him to budge but I still wanted to try. He didn't mention my point about tuition increases though which was interesting... Said he'd keep me in mind if they still have money in the pot come summertime. I'll probably send him another email after the 2nd deposit deadline.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly did you ask him about tuition increases? Because to be fair, I think tuition increases--while unfortunate--are no longer that surprising. If you expect him to look you in the eye and confirm your suspicion of some kind of future tuition increase, you're grasping at straws. While it's something that's (most likely) completely out of his control, I think he gave you and the other poster who responded truly genuine responses.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your offer was for 96k, right? From everything that I've read and heard, I haven't personally heard of students receiving higher offers to USD unless it was a full ride. Obviously, taking any amount of debt for going to law school is a shitty burden for all of us. But you seem to be assigning some arbitrary amount of risk to a debt you don't want to take on. What kind of offer are you looking for exactly? I've heard cases of (potential) students using figures to decipher how much money they'd actually NEED to be able to survive in law school. If you want to go reply to him, find a number/value that you think you're worth. It can't hurt, unless you've already annoyed him!

[onlyunholy]

my softs are strong, but LSAT not high enough. and that's the dominating factor.

Garcia is one straight shooter.

Sent him an email to negotiate my scholarship offer. He basically went point by point countering everything I said. USD's offer is definitely the best I have so I wasn't expecting him to budge but I still wanted to try. He didn't mention my point about tuition increases though which was interesting... Said he'd keep me in mind if they still have money in the pot come summertime. I'll probably send him another email after the 2nd deposit deadline.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly did you ask him about tuition increases? Because to be fair, I think tuition increases--while unfortunate--are no longer that surprising. If you expect him to look you in the eye and confirm your suspicion of some kind of future tuition increase, you're grasping at straws. While it's something that's (most likely) completely out of his control, I think he gave you and the other poster who responded truly genuine responses.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your offer was for 96k, right? From everything that I've read and heard, I haven't personally heard of students receiving higher offers to USD unless it was a full ride. Obviously, taking any amount of debt for going to law school is a shitty burden for all of us. But you seem to be assigning some arbitrary amount of risk to a debt you don't want to take on. What kind of offer are you looking for exactly? I've heard cases of (potential) students using figures to decipher how much money they'd actually NEED to be able to survive in law school. If you want to go reply to him, find a number/value that you think you're worth. It can't hurt, unless you've already annoyed him!

If you read above posts, there are offers above 96k. I know of 105k, for instance.

USD doesn't do full rides for incoming 1Ls I don't believe - 90% tuition scholarship is the max.

[aco227]

Ok cool, so 3k more/year. Which OP may/may not deem a large amount of of money, which is why I'm recommending (if he/she chooses to respond to Dean Garcia) specifically mentioning an amount that the student would ostensibly deem reasonable enough to warrant attending. I don't think Garcia's being disingenuous or evasive, I think his responses are incredibly straight-forward and shows what type of dude he is. It's not his first rodeo--he's probably heard thousands of scholarship negotiation e-mails all touting the same things: poor employment statistics, bar passage rates, COL, etc. As a student, if you truly think you're worth more than what they're offering, tell them how much more, and tell them what offer would be a tipping point for your decision-making process.

[almostthere1]

USD lsat medians have declined over the last three years, interesting that they aren't trying to preserve that median. But GPA median is pretty strong. I think Garcia has a game plan and is pretty consistent if you filter results on lsn for certain indicators. Unfortunate as it is I dont see him giving any love to >75% lsat splitters but its been consistent with other applicants. I guess he will see where his deposits land and adjust if necessary.

[aco227]

USD lsat medians have declined over the last three years, interesting that they aren't trying to preserve that median. But GPA median is pretty strong. I think Garcia has a game plan and is pretty consistent if you filter results on lsn for certain indicators. Unfortunate as it is I dont see him giving any love to >75% lsat splitters but its been consistent with other applicants. I guess he will see where his deposits land and adjust if necessary.

Yeah absolutely. That being said though, it seems as if the medians at most schools have dropped over the last few years. I think the economic downturn forced many kids to stay away from law school, and my gut tells me that the next couple years will present JD's with better employment prospects as the economy slowly builds itself back. I'm happy to be entering now, as opposed to a few years back. Are you attending USD?

[bkegslounge]

Ok cool, so 3k more/year. Which OP may/may not deem a large amount of of money, which is why I'm recommending (if he/she chooses to respond to Dean Garcia) specifically mentioning an amount that the student would ostensibly deem reasonable enough to warrant attending. I don't think Garcia's being disingenuous or evasive, I think his responses are incredibly straight-forward and shows what type of dude he is. It's not his first rodeo--he's probably heard thousands of scholarship negotiation e-mails all touting the same things: poor employment statistics, bar passage rates, COL, etc. As a student, if you truly think you're worth more than what they're offering, tell them how much more, and tell them what offer would be a tipping point for your decision-making process.

The $105k figure I saw on LSN was actually what I was hoping for. I'd feel more comfortable with an extra $5k more / year because that would bring me under $100k of total debt at repayment according to my COA calculations. Arbitrary I know... but for some reason $99k sounds so much less daunting than 100k... I honestly feel my original offer was very generous but there's absolutely no downside negotiating for more.

The tuition comment was not really part of my argument. I used it more to point out that my scholarship is fixed but tuition is not. I didn't dwell on it. My main point was that I have similar offers in LA (where I live) and OC (where my parents live) so I need a little extra incentive to pick up my life and move to SD.

I really appreciate Dean Garcia's candor especially after trying to negotiate with Loyola. They literally responded with one sentence "I'm glad our offer is competitive." ... smug pricks...

I think I'm going to wait until after the June deposit deadline and try one more time with something like what you guys suggested. "Hey, my debt would be X with my current scholarship. I would feel much more comfortable committing knowing I will come out of law school with under $100k of debt so gimme Y more... pretty please with sugar on top..." Something like that.

[aco227]

Ok cool, so 3k more/year. Which OP may/may not deem a large amount of of money, which is why I'm recommending (if he/she chooses to respond to Dean Garcia) specifically mentioning an amount that the student would ostensibly deem reasonable enough to warrant attending. I don't think Garcia's being disingenuous or evasive, I think his responses are incredibly straight-forward and shows what type of dude he is. It's not his first rodeo--he's probably heard thousands of scholarship negotiation e-mails all touting the same things: poor employment statistics, bar passage rates, COL, etc. As a student, if you truly think you're worth more than what they're offering, tell them how much more, and tell them what offer would be a tipping point for your decision-making process.

The $105k figure I saw on LSN was actually what I was hoping for. I'd feel more comfortable with an extra $5k more / year because that would bring me under $100k of total debt at repayment according to my COA calculations. Arbitrary I know... but for some reason $99k sounds so much less daunting than 100k... I honestly feel my original offer was very generous but there's absolutely no downside negotiating for more.

The tuition comment was not really part of my argument. I used it more to point out that my scholarship is fixed but tuition is not. I didn't dwell on it. My main point was that I have similar offers in LA (where I live) and OC (where my parents live) so I need a little extra incentive to pick up my life and move to SD.

I really appreciate Dean Garcia's candor especially after trying to negotiate with Loyola. They literally responded with one sentence "I'm glad our offer is competitive." ... smug pricks...

I think I'm going to wait until after the June deposit deadline and try one more time with something like what you guys suggested. "Hey, my debt would be X with my current scholarship. I would feel much more comfortable committing knowing I will come out of law school with under $100k of debt so gimme Y more... pretty please with sugar on top..." Something like that.

Yeah I totally feel you on that point. $100k+ does seem really daunting. I'm trying not to nitpick at the notion of debt too much, even though I know how much big debt will affect me moving forward. At the end of the day, we're all gonna incur some kind of debt, and what matters most is how we manage that debt after leaving law school. I have pretty similar numbers to you (GPA a little bit lower at 3.5), with strong softs, and I received an initial offer of 22k/year. I also applied pretty late in the cycle (mid-March).

I sent Dean Garcia an e-mail last week, giving him a really honest breakdown of my thoughts. I'm from San Diego, and straight-up told him that this is where I want to be, and it's my full intention to enroll at USD. His response was pretty similar to what he gave you. He went point-by-point through my e-mail and analyzed everything. He did mention that there's quite a long waitlist at the moment and he's still trying to piece together where the scholarship money's going. But he was cool enough to offer me an additional 4k for my first year, with a potential to spread that out to my 2L and 3L as well--in addition to keeping me open for a potential increase as the deadlines draw closer. I'm already pretty set on attending, but an increased offer would be icing on the cake. I'll also be attending the ASD later this month.

[bkegslounge]

Yeah I totally feel you on that point. $100k+ does seem really daunting. I'm trying not to nitpick at the notion of debt too much, even though I know how much big debt will affect me moving forward. At the end of the day, we're all gonna incur some kind of debt, and what matters most is how we manage that debt after leaving law school. I have pretty similar numbers to you (GPA a little bit lower at 3.5), with strong softs, and I received an initial offer of 22k/year. I also applied pretty late in the cycle (mid-March).

I sent Dean Garcia an e-mail last week, giving him a really honest breakdown of my thoughts. I'm from San Diego, and straight-up told him that this is where I want to be, and it's my full intention to enroll at USD. His response was pretty similar to what he gave you. He went point-by-point through my e-mail and analyzed everything. He did mention that there's quite a long waitlist at the moment and he's still trying to piece together where the scholarship money's going. But he was cool enough to offer me an additional 4k for my first year, with a potential to spread that out to my 2L and 3L as well--in addition to keeping me open for a potential increase as the deadlines draw closer. I'm already pretty set on attending, but an increased offer would be icing on the cake. I'll also be attending the ASD later this month.

Yeah, seems like he's trying to be as honest as possible with us about his intentions. I just don't like his excuse about increasing one person's scholarship means he'll have to increase everyone else of the "same caliber". What makes one student the same caliber as another? My friend has the same GPA and LSAT as me but only got $27k per year. I saw on LSN someone with similar stats as mine with the $35k per year. Sounds like that's just his go-to excuse when he doesn't want to increase your scholarship.

But anyway, I'm pretty set on USD too. I went to the ASD a few weeks ago and loved the school.

[aco227]

Anyone heading to ASD tomorrow? Garcia just sent out an e-mail saying that there's an assigned reading for the mock Socratic class tomorrow! Wasn't expecting that at all, but I think it's pretty cool. I just wish they told us sooner... Either way, I'm stoked to check out the school tomorrow.

[bkegslounge]

Anyone heading to ASD tomorrow? Garcia just sent out an e-mail saying that there's an assigned reading for the mock Socratic class tomorrow! Wasn't expecting that at all, but I think it's pretty cool. I just wish they told us sooner... Either way, I'm stoked to check out the school tomorrow.

If it's the same reading then you'll be listening to people argue about the definition of "chicken." haha it was pretty interesting but very basic. He takes volunteers so it's not really the Socratic method if you were worried about that. The prof was youthful and engaging. Don't sweat it if you dont have time to actually read it (although it's only like 5 pages).

[aco227]

Anyone heading to ASD tomorrow? Garcia just sent out an e-mail saying that there's an assigned reading for the mock Socratic class tomorrow! Wasn't expecting that at all, but I think it's pretty cool. I just wish they told us sooner... Either way, I'm stoked to check out the school tomorrow.

If it's the same reading then you'll be listening to people argue about the definition of "chicken." haha it was pretty interesting but very basic. He takes volunteers so it's not really the Socratic method if you were worried about that. The prof was youthful and engaging. Don't sweat it if you dont have time to actually read it (although it's only like 5 pages).

Yeah I figured it would be mostly volunteer-based. I just checked out the reading though, looks like we got a different one. This one's a 17-page decision on Jaffee v. Redmond... sounds like you guys got off the hook! The prof for the lecture is Michael Devitt if that rings a bell? It actually seems like a pretty interesting case--whether or not psychotherapist-patient privilege exists. I'll probably give it a whirl tonight.

In terms of the luncheon, is it assigned seating? Or do we get to seat ourselves with faculty/alumni/etc.? Any other thoughts you have on the day would be greatly appreciated!

[bkegslounge]

Anyone heading to ASD tomorrow? Garcia just sent out an e-mail saying that there's an assigned reading for the mock Socratic class tomorrow! Wasn't expecting that at all, but I think it's pretty cool. I just wish they told us sooner... Either way, I'm stoked to check out the school tomorrow.

If it's the same reading then you'll be listening to people argue about the definition of "chicken." haha it was pretty interesting but very basic. He takes volunteers so it's not really the Socratic method if you were worried about that. The prof was youthful and engaging. Don't sweat it if you dont have time to actually read it (although it's only like 5 pages).

Yeah I figured it would be mostly volunteer-based. I just checked out the reading though, looks like we got a different one. This one's a 17-page decision on Jaffee v. Redmond... sounds like you guys got off the hook! The prof for the lecture is Michael Devitt if that rings a bell? It actually seems like a pretty interesting case--whether or not psychotherapist-patient privilege exists. I'll probably give it a whirl tonight.

In terms of the luncheon, is it assigned seating? Or do we get to seat ourselves with faculty/alumni/etc.? Any other thoughts you have on the day would be greatly appreciated!

Yeah sounds like that's a different reading and different Prof. They assigned us to a table for the luncheon. Each table had a mix of Profs, current students and alumni. After you eat and the Dean gives his speech then they let you float around to different tables.

[bkegslounge]

I need some advice on this... So Loyola just increased my scholarship amount which is now more than what USD is offering. Should I update Dean Garcia with this since he turned down my initial request for more $ which included the old offer from Loyola? What's the best way to approach this so I don't sound like I'm trying to get USD and Loyola in a bidding war? Thanks

[yeslekkkk]

I need some advice on this... So Loyola just increased my scholarship amount which is now more than what USD is offering. Should I update Dean Garcia with this since he turned down my initial request for more $ which included the old offer from Loyola? What's the best way to approach this so I don't sound like I'm trying to get USD and Loyola in a bidding war? Thanks

If you're considering going to Loyola due to the increased offer, you should definitely tell Dean Garcia. The facts have changed since you last requested.

[aco227]

I need some advice on this... So Loyola just increased my scholarship amount which is now more than what USD is offering. Should I update Dean Garcia with this since he turned down my initial request for more $ which included the old offer from Loyola? What's the best way to approach this so I don't sound like I'm trying to get USD and Loyola in a bidding war? Thanks

I'm kinda in the same boat, Loyola just increased my offer as well by 2k/year. My Loyola offer was already greater than USD's offer, but Garcia did give me an additional 4k from the Alumni Scholarship Fund (or something like that) for my first year. I'll probably e-mail him back tomorrow with the update, and see what happens. At this point, USD is offering me 70k with Loyola offering me 84k. I told Garcia that I want to go to USD, so here's to hoping we both get a few more bucks.