Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

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AT9
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby AT9 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:44 am

lsfox86 wrote:
AT9 wrote: The scary part is that regional peer schools maintained their stats or got better...there's now a pretty big gap between UNC and Wake, for instance.


I agree - this is what worries me. Damn, just when I was feeling warm and fuzzy about Wake


Yeah. Most of the other schools that it was seriously considering have at least maintained, if not improved. But I've already withdrawn everywhere else so it's too late for me to change...

I have to keep reminding myself that:

1. The numbers fluctuate year to year.
2. This year's numbers were similar to 2011, but Wake isn't some TTTT hell-hole now, so it will probably be in the same place 3 years from now give or take a few meaningless USNews places.
3. This was the largest.class.EVAR. If 56/57 score on LST is the worst it gets for Wake, I can live with that. Class of 2013 had over 50,000 entering JD students, and the class of 2016 has like 39,000 while ours is supposed to be even smaller. Assuming the legal market doesn't shrink much by 2017, we should be in a better position.
4. I'm paying like $12k for Wake.

Happy thoughts, happy thoughts....

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shaynislegend
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby shaynislegend » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:08 pm

AT9 wrote:
lsfox86 wrote:
AT9 wrote: The scary part is that regional peer schools maintained their stats or got better...there's now a pretty big gap between UNC and Wake, for instance.


I agree - this is what worries me. Damn, just when I was feeling warm and fuzzy about Wake


Yeah. Most of the other schools that it was seriously considering have at least maintained, if not improved. But I've already withdrawn everywhere else so it's too late for me to change...

I have to keep reminding myself that:

1. The numbers fluctuate year to year.
2. This year's numbers were similar to 2011, but Wake isn't some TTTT hell-hole now, so it will probably be in the same place 3 years from now give or take a few meaningless USNews places.
3. This was the largest.class.EVAR. If 56/57 score on LST is the worst it gets for Wake, I can live with that. Class of 2013 had over 50,000 entering JD students, and the class of 2016 has like 39,000 while ours is supposed to be even smaller. Assuming the legal market doesn't shrink much by 2017, we should be in a better position.
4. I'm paying like $12k for Wake.

Happy thoughts, happy thoughts....


I think what bothers me most is the flooded NC market. I mean come on how is Charlotte, Campbell, Elon and NCCU allowed to bring in 500+ students a cycle. That is ridiculous, then they place about 40-50% of them and flood the market... It is frustrating. I don't think the answer is making the bar more difficult it should be getting and regulating accreditation, but that is a whole different problem.

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AT9
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby AT9 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:24 pm

shaynislegend wrote:
AT9 wrote:
lsfox86 wrote:
AT9 wrote: The scary part is that regional peer schools maintained their stats or got better...there's now a pretty big gap between UNC and Wake, for instance.


I agree - this is what worries me. Damn, just when I was feeling warm and fuzzy about Wake


Yeah. Most of the other schools that it was seriously considering have at least maintained, if not improved. But I've already withdrawn everywhere else so it's too late for me to change...

I have to keep reminding myself that:

1. The numbers fluctuate year to year.
2. This year's numbers were similar to 2011, but Wake isn't some TTTT hell-hole now, so it will probably be in the same place 3 years from now give or take a few meaningless USNews places.
3. This was the largest.class.EVAR. If 56/57 score on LST is the worst it gets for Wake, I can live with that. Class of 2013 had over 50,000 entering JD students, and the class of 2016 has like 39,000 while ours is supposed to be even smaller. Assuming the legal market doesn't shrink much by 2017, we should be in a better position.
4. I'm paying like $12k for Wake.

Happy thoughts, happy thoughts....


I think what bothers me most is the flooded NC market. I mean come on how is Charlotte, Campbell, Elon and NCCU allowed to bring in 500+ students a cycle. That is ridiculous, then they place about 40-50% of them and flood the market... It is frustrating. I don't think the answer is making the bar more difficult it should be getting and regulating accreditation, but that is a whole different problem.


Yeah, that is frustrating. Looking at employment stats, all of those except for Campbell should be de-accredited. NCCU has a 14% (yes, FOURTEEN) on LST :shock:

I suppose local small firms would rather take some Elon law review schmuck over median or below Wake/UNC grad.

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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby LurkerShirker » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:34 pm

ATLFAN wrote:From what I learned traveling around most schools up the Atlantic Coast is that every class year at every school is different. The reason that W&M jumped so high in the rating was because they had a dynamo 2012 and 2013 class that fared very well in the job hunt (this I know for a fact). On the contrary, W&L's fall may have had a lot to do, in part, to a class that was just not as good. To summarize, its not simply the school that will determine your placement, its YOU, and how much YOU want it. It looks like the 2013 class just didn't want it as bad. That's my two cents; hope to see everyone in W-S in the fall!


Taking out school funded numbers, W&L's and W&M's stats for 2013 are pretty much the same; 2012 was a different story.

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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby ATLFAN » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:42 pm

LurkerShirker wrote:
ATLFAN wrote:From what I learned traveling around most schools up the Atlantic Coast is that every class year at every school is different. The reason that W&M jumped so high in the rating was because they had a dynamo 2012 and 2013 class that fared very well in the job hunt (this I know for a fact). On the contrary, W&L's fall may have had a lot to do, in part, to a class that was just not as good. To summarize, its not simply the school that will determine your placement, its YOU, and how much YOU want it. It looks like the 2013 class just didn't want it as bad. That's my two cents; hope to see everyone in W-S in the fall!


Taking out school funded numbers, W&L's and W&M's stats for 2013 are pretty much the same; 2012 was a different story.


Still a lot better placement into large firms, considering that W&M's class had about 100 more people on W&L. The "school funded" statistic is sketchy, I was told it's a $1000 stipend for grads waiting to get a FT job 3-5 month after graduation, but who knows. To be honest, I didn't buy it. I have however been given a prognostic from a, what I think, is a reliable source that their 2014 W&M class was very impressive, I guess we will see.

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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby ATLFAN » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:53 pm

And back to topic, haha, definitely agree that TTTT schools in NC are killing Wake more than anything. By my speculation, Wake is taking the biggest blow from these schools because:

1) Duke is Duke, not going to get affected by anything
2) UNC is the most dominant school FOR NC. All 7 NC Supreme Court justices are UNC grads, so go figure (had this stat shoved down my throat during my visit) - not affected by TTTT
3) Half of Wake's class goes out of state, considering this statistic held true for the last....ten, fifteen, twenty years, then Wake's alum base in NC is not as strong as UNC, and therefore has given way to Elon, Campbell, Charlotte, and NCCU grads to take the spots previously held by Wake grads
4) Elon, founded in 2006, is in Greensboro, that is a big area for law jobs that used to go to WF. Now Elon grads, who are better able to access the community, have the upper hand.
5) Since Wake's alumni base is very spread out, other TTTT schools founded in the last few years (Well, before and during the recession of 2008+) also took jobs in states where Wake had pull (I'm thinking Florida and South Carolina (Charleston for SC to be more specific- but that school is going down, so I guess that's good for us). Since those schools are closer, and the number of law jobs has decreased, Wake is competing with TTTT schools in more areas than just NC.
6) I chose Wake because it is a school that has a very spread out alumni base, although I see it as an advantage, it may not be so in today's market and with the number of local TTTT schools Wake now competes against all across the SE


and that was my very long ramble, which is just my layman's observation since I'm neither from NC and know what the situation really is with the TTTT nor do I truly know what happened between 2012 and 2013 at WF. Here is hoping it'll all turn out fine.

msx3
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby msx3 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:26 pm

lsfox86 wrote:this whole "problem with the NC bar" seems sketchy

That's basically what we were told during at the financial aid meeting.

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shaynislegend
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby shaynislegend » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:27 am

I agree with a lot of what ATL is saying here. I will also add that though WF grads are more spread out, then the other NC schools they are also much tighter. I've worked in the legal field here for a only a year but even after looking at a few firms and talking to a few lawyers it is pretty easy to see everyone in there mother graduated from UNC. However, the WF grads tend to clump together and also seem to have a ton of respect from grads from other schools.

TL;DR

WFL grads may be lower in number but I feel as a connection will go much further.

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Nucky
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby Nucky » Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:53 am

I know I have been absent from this thread for a while but I just saw the new LST numbers for Wake and :shock: .

Was planning on riding the waitlist but I think I may withdraw now. Interested to see how they explain the drop. A vast majority of schools across the country are seeing their numbers going up. No reason to think the same wouldn't hold true for a quality school like Wake.

Hopefully c/o 2017 does better!... or c/o 2015 for that matter.

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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby Yanky91 » Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:45 am

Nucky wrote:I know I have been absent from this thread for a while but I just saw the new LST numbers for Wake and :shock: .

Was planning on riding the waitlist but I think I may withdraw now. Interested to see how they explain the drop. A vast majority of schools across the country are seeing their numbers going up. No reason to think the same wouldn't hold true for a quality school like Wake.

Hopefully c/o 2017 does better!... or c/o 2015 for that matter.


+1 most other schools are seeing their employment numbers go up. I might just take the full ride to UIUC now. Less Debt + Good Chance At Getting A Job = Win Win

HRomanus
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby HRomanus » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:38 pm

In with $41,900 per year (submitted 03/15 with 165/4.0).

How concerned are you about the c/o 2013 employment stats?

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shaynislegend
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby shaynislegend » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:52 pm

HRomanus wrote:In with $41,900 per year (submitted 03/15 with 165/4.0).

How concerned are you about the c/o 2013 employment stats?


With 42k a year? Zero.

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Eaturgreenz
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby Eaturgreenz » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:03 pm

If you look at their numbers through the ABA website, WF's 31 ranking seems to be unjustified. Their
HRomanus wrote:In with $41,900 per year (submitted 03/15 with 165/4.0).

How concerned are you about the c/o 2013 employment stats?
employment numbers (except for 2012) are typically around 55 percent.

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cricketlove00
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby cricketlove00 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:01 pm

shaynislegend wrote:
HRomanus wrote:In with $41,900 per year (submitted 03/15 with 165/4.0).

How concerned are you about the c/o 2013 employment stats?


With 42k a year? Zero.


+1

Everyone should be concerned all the time. First lesson TLS taught me. I'm not too interested in if Wake's ranking is "unjustified" or not.

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shaynislegend
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby shaynislegend » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:10 pm

cricketlove00 wrote:
shaynislegend wrote:
HRomanus wrote:In with $41,900 per year (submitted 03/15 with 165/4.0).

How concerned are you about the c/o 2013 employment stats?


With 42k a year? Zero.


+1

Everyone should be concerned all the time. First lesson TLS taught me. I'm not too interested in if Wake's ranking is "unjustified" or not.


Especially when you are going for the cost of living.

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cricketlove00
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby cricketlove00 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:23 pm

shaynislegend wrote:
cricketlove00 wrote:
shaynislegend wrote:
HRomanus wrote:In with $41,900 per year (submitted 03/15 with 165/4.0).

How concerned are you about the c/o 2013 employment stats?


With 42k a year? Zero.


+1

Everyone should be concerned all the time. First lesson TLS taught me. I'm not too interested in if Wake's ranking is "unjustified" or not.


Especially when you are going for the cost of living.


Which is insanely cheap. Nice offer dude.

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Eaturgreenz
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby Eaturgreenz » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:46 pm

Employment stats don't matter? Okay... So you're going to law school for the fun of it...

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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby HRomanus » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:12 pm

cricketlove00 wrote:Which is insanely cheap. Nice offer dude.


I was pleasantly surprised when the email came through this afternoon. Running the numbers tonight, my out-of-pocket costs for the three years (assuming 10% increase in tuition per year and 5% increase in living expenses) would be less than $7,000. That's compelling except for Wake's unsteady employment stats. For example, the median private sector salary in 2012 was $67k. For comparison, Emory Law's median private sector salary is $100k.

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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby Shirosham » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:54 am

Just got back from Coachella and checked my e-mail. In with $25k a year! Submitted on deadline, did the interview and about 2 weeks ago. This has been the best weekend of my life.

Anyone know of a place where I can find a cheap flight to North Carolina? I'm broke.

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cricketlove00
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby cricketlove00 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:06 am

Eaturgreenz wrote:Employment stats don't matter? Okay... So you're going to law school for the fun of it...


Don't be ridiculous. Of course they matter. Maybe I wasn't clear, but I meant rankings. Wake has always gone up and down in the rankings.

I literally said that I am concerned about the numbers, just not about the rank.

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shaynislegend
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby shaynislegend » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:55 am

Eaturgreenz wrote:Employment stats don't matter? Okay... So you're going to law school for the fun of it...


You must have missed 5 pages back when the concern over the emp stats was discussed... If going to a regional school with shaky job stats at low cost is a huge concern then this probably isn't the right school to apply to. You may want to hold out and apply to the T16 for a much higher cost. However those applying (presumably know about the market and stats) with full ride offers should def be less concerned in the drop.

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shaynislegend
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby shaynislegend » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:56 am

HRomanus wrote:
cricketlove00 wrote:Which is insanely cheap. Nice offer dude.


I was pleasantly surprised when the email came through this afternoon. Running the numbers tonight, my out-of-pocket costs for the three years (assuming 10% increase in tuition per year and 5% increase in living expenses) would be less than $7,000. That's compelling except for Wake's unsteady employment stats. For example, the median private sector salary in 2012 was $67k. For comparison, Emory Law's median private sector salary is $100k.


I would seriously question that media salary amount for any school, let alone Emory.

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cricketlove00
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby cricketlove00 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:03 am

shaynislegend wrote:
HRomanus wrote:
cricketlove00 wrote:Which is insanely cheap. Nice offer dude.


I was pleasantly surprised when the email came through this afternoon. Running the numbers tonight, my out-of-pocket costs for the three years (assuming 10% increase in tuition per year and 5% increase in living expenses) would be less than $7,000. That's compelling except for Wake's unsteady employment stats. For example, the median private sector salary in 2012 was $67k. For comparison, Emory Law's median private sector salary is $100k.


I would seriously question that media salary amount for any school, let alone Emory.


And honestly, it's about what you want. I haven't read Emory's stats, but from what I've read on here they are notorious for employing their own graduates. That being said, it's all about risk. You can risk taking on more debt in hopes of getting a high(er) paying job, or you can take the full ride with maybe a smaller chance of making 100k+, but you won't have the debt.

Neither choice is bad in my opinion. You just need to figure out what you want to do, I guess.

Yanky91
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby Yanky91 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:10 pm

Hey Cricketlove did Wake ever get back to you about that big drop in employment?

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cricketlove00
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Re: Wake Forest c/o 2017 (2013-2014)

Postby cricketlove00 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:22 pm

Yanky91 wrote:Hey Cricketlove did Wake ever get back to you about that big drop in employment?


Yeah I'll PM you. If anyone else is curious, she was very nice and helpful and happy to answer any questions I have. I'll go ahead and PM you now.




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