Notre Dame Law School c/o 2018 (2014-2015 applicants) Forum

[palbatron]

Wrote a Why ND and also an LSAT addendum (it was offered on the website, not something I did for every school)

Nice. As long as the addendum was not an "excuse", then you should be in the running; not guaranteed though.

[kyle010723]

How long does it usually take to get to the 2nd complete? and how are my numbers (3.93/160) looking with it being so late in the cycle?

I wish I had a 3.9...

[ManoftheHour]

How long does it usually take to get to the 2nd complete? and how are my numbers (3.93/160) looking with it being so late in the cycle?

I wish I had a 3.9...

Me too. I'd probably have a shot at MVP.

[ndirish2010]

Submitted and had first complete 2/12

How long does it usually take to get to the 2nd complete? and how are my numbers (3.93/160) looking with it being so late in the cycle?

Get off TLS and sign up for the LSAT.

[Lebrarian_Booker]

Submitted and had first complete 2/12

How long does it usually take to get to the 2nd complete? and how are my numbers (3.93/160) looking with it being so late in the cycle?

Get off TLS and sign up for the LSAT.

lol, TLS is persistent if nothing else

*ritualistic gregorian chant begins* retake

[LyricsToLitigation]

Submitted and had first complete 2/12

How long does it usually take to get to the 2nd complete? and how are my numbers (3.93/160) looking with it being so late in the cycle?

Get off TLS and sign up for the LSAT.

Yes.

[ndirish2010]

Submitted and had first complete 2/12

How long does it usually take to get to the 2nd complete? and how are my numbers (3.93/160) looking with it being so late in the cycle?

Get off TLS and sign up for the LSAT.

lol, TLS is persistent if nothing else

*ritualistic gregorian chant begins* retake

It's a sin to waste a 3.9 on a 160.

[palbatron]

Submitted and had first complete 2/12

How long does it usually take to get to the 2nd complete? and how are my numbers (3.93/160) looking with it being so late in the cycle?

Get off TLS and sign up for the LSAT.

Yes.

I mean he did say he wrote an addendum for the LSAT. Maybe it was along the lines of not being a good test taker or something like that. Maybe there is no option for a retake. Lots of maybe's, I guess we may never know.

[ndirish2010]

Submitted and had first complete 2/12

How long does it usually take to get to the 2nd complete? and how are my numbers (3.93/160) looking with it being so late in the cycle?

Get off TLS and sign up for the LSAT.

Yes.

I mean he did say he wrote an addendum for the LSAT. Maybe it was along the lines of not being a good test taker or something like that. Maybe there is no option for a retake. Lots of maybe's, I guess we may never know.

If you are not a good test taker, law school is probably not for you.

[jk148706]

Envelope in the mail today, thought it could be scholly info.... Letter from the head research librarian.

[pauly_biegler]

Addendum dealt with some personal shit that contributed to the poor test score. studied my ass off and retook, did worse as a matter of fact. I feel like a broken record on TLS forums but I'm not retaking I don't have a year to take off.

Already got into GW so I figure I'll have SOME options that are halfway decent, despite not necessarily being t-14.

[kyle010723]

GW is not a bad option if you are IP

[fivestarfolds]

If you are not a good test taker, law school is probably not for you.

Your comment is myopic.

Perhaps he/she is bad at taking bubble tests or perhaps he/she sucks at logic games, etc etc. I'm also sure that this person (given their GPA) will make a fine lawyer on the merits of something other than a 3.5 hour test or even their testing ability in law school.

On another note. Submitted several weeks ago and really hoping that ND becomes an option for me! I think the business law program and the semester in Chicago program looks fantastic.

[rosepetals66]

I had a 161 and 3.9 GPA and was accepted this cycle to ND (applied in October, found out my acceptance in December--not sure if applying early helped my weak LSAT). I was also promised an "academic scholarship" in the packet; still waiting on the email to make a decision--though ND is currently my top choice. It just will be difficult to finance if I don't get enough off (plus U of Wisconsin gave me half off what I will pay for in-state tuition as a Wisco resident; so that is an attractive option too).

As for the retake advice that permeates TLS, I too don't have the time to retake the LSAT. I took the June 2013 test and studied for 2.5 weeks at about 4-5 hours a day. I did not have time to study it longer (people usually advise 3-4 months) because I was taking classes, working part time, and participating in the off-season practices/workouts for football (I played for my undergrad). During the 2.5 weeks that I studied, it was one of the most boring anti-social periods of my life. I literally hated studying because: 1. It consumed all my free time. 2. I couldn't talk to anyone about this all-consuming activity because no one really cares about your logic games or whether you did good on a practice test or not---they just know you're "studying" and see it as a kind-of-important chore like cleaning your room. The rest of the world doesn't stop demanding your time for things like parents coming to visit, boss wants you to work more randomly, or your coach needs you at practice for 3 hours. So in that sense, I cannot imagine trying to restudy the LSAT for 3 months during 2014, plus put myself a year behind making money by having to reapply for 2015. As a current senior in undergrad, I still do not have the time or patience to devote to such a boring test. I'm honestly happy I pulled a 161 with the test anxiety I had that day (test anxiety which I might add was partly caused by reading TLS and panicking that it is the "biggest test of your life" because if you mess up you HAVE to retake or quit being a lawyer).

I would rather take my chances at a good school that I got into with my GPA (such as ND) and compete for class rank and jobs there. I want to remain in the Midwest (probably Indiana) anyways, so it doesn't make sense to take a year off just to get into a T14 program that primarily feeds into the East and West coasts.

From my experience, most of the people on TLS are already some of the most anal, ambitious people in the profession--but they do not represent the majority of people who want to become lawyers. Therefore they don't have the authority to just demand retakes out of every sub-170 score. You don't know my situation, goals, time commitments or any other factors besides numbers of my LSAT and GPA. Hell, someone could have a kid at home they need to take care of or maybe they want a local law school because they cannot afford to move to another city. It's just annoying to always have this shock factor at refusing to retake....especially when some of us splitters actually have excellent options for our target markets, like ND or Wisco.


Sorry....End TLS Rant.

[John Everyman]

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[esperando127]

I had a 161 and 3.9 GPA and was accepted this cycle to ND (applied in October, found out my acceptance in December--not sure if applying early helped my weak LSAT). I was also promised an "academic scholarship" in the packet; still waiting on the email to make a decision--though ND is currently my top choice. It just will be difficult to finance if I don't get enough off (plus U of Wisconsin gave me half off what I will pay for in-state tuition as a Wisco resident; so that is an attractive option too).

As for the retake advice that permeates TLS, I too don't have the time to retake the LSAT. I took the June 2013 test and studied for 2.5 weeks at about 4-5 hours a day. I did not have time to study it longer (people usually advise 3-4 months) because I was taking classes, working part time, and participating in the off-season practices/workouts for football (I played for my undergrad). During the 2.5 weeks that I studied, it was one of the most boring anti-social periods of my life. I literally hated studying because: 1. It consumed all my free time. 2. I couldn't talk to anyone about this all-consuming activity because no one really cares about your logic games or whether you did good on a practice test or not---they just know you're "studying" and see it as a kind-of-important chore like cleaning your room. The rest of the world doesn't stop demanding your time for things like parents coming to visit, boss wants you to work more randomly, or your coach needs you at practice for 3 hours. So in that sense, I cannot imagine trying to restudy the LSAT for 3 months during 2014, plus put myself a year behind making money by having to reapply for 2015. As a current senior in undergrad, I still do not have the time or patience to devote to such a boring test. I'm honestly happy I pulled a 161 with the test anxiety I had that day (test anxiety which I might add was partly caused by reading TLS and panicking that it is the "biggest test of your life" because if you mess up you HAVE to retake or quit being a lawyer).

I would rather take my chances at a good school that I got into with my GPA (such as ND) and compete for class rank and jobs there. I want to remain in the Midwest (probably Indiana) anyways, so it doesn't make sense to take a year off just to get into a T14 program that primarily feeds into the East and West coasts.

From my experience, most of the people on TLS are already some of the most anal, ambitious people in the profession--but they do not represent the majority of people who want to become lawyers. Therefore they don't have the authority to just demand retakes out of every sub-170 score. You don't know my situation, goals, time commitments or any other factors besides numbers of my LSAT and GPA. Hell, someone could have a kid at home they need to take care of or maybe they want a local law school because they cannot afford to move to another city. It's just annoying to always have this shock factor at refusing to retake....especially when some of us splitters actually have excellent options for our target markets, like ND or Wisco.


Sorry....End TLS Rant.

Yes. The final paragraph. Took the words right out of my mouth. Although I would also add "arrogant" to anal and ambitious.

[rosepetals66]

[/quote] Why did this just happen? Not mentioning the fact that all of your reasons for not retaking are actually great reasons to retake (can't afford to move to a new town? Retaking makes law school substantially cheaper. Have a child at home? Retaking could allow you to provide a substantially better life for said child. Also, I didn't realize Northwestern and UChi primarily feed into the east and west coasts) It has no relevancy here.

Post these rants in a reverse splitters thread.[/quote]


Really? You're being a little too assuming on how much time someone has to just study 4 hours a day for 3 months....Lets use the child example. If someone has a child at home, yes a better LSAT score and law school will allow you to provide for said child better....But how about just preparing for the test? A single mother or father may not just have time to put the kid on hold during the hours of 6:00 PM till whenever they go to bed (I'm using 6 as when said parent would be home from work, making dinner, etc.). And lets say they prepare inadequately because of their time constraints and score lower....then the whole taking a cycle off plan was not worth it, especially if you can predict the little amount of time you will have to spend during 2014. However I am glad that, like I said before, you just assume you know the daily schedules and free time of not only real people, but also hypothetical people...

And alright I'll post my complaints in the reverse splitters thread when people take their retake advice out of the ND class of 2017 thread....

[LyricsToLitigation]

Why did this just happen? Not mentioning the fact that all of your reasons for not retaking are actually great reasons to retake (can't afford to move to a new town? Retaking makes law school substantially cheaper. Have a child at home? Retaking could allow you to provide a substantially better life for said child. Also, I didn't realize Northwestern and UChi primarily feed into the east and west coasts) It has no relevancy here.

Post these rants in a reverse splitters thread.

Really? You're being a little too assuming on how much time someone has to just study 4 hours a day for 3 months....Lets use the child example. If someone has a child at home, yes a better LSAT score and law school will allow you to provide for said child better....But how about just preparing for the test? A single mother or father may not just have time to put the kid on hold during the hours of 6:00 PM till whenever they go to bed (I'm using 6 as when said parent would be home from work, making dinner, etc.). And lets say they prepare inadequately because of their time constraints and score lower....then the whole taking a cycle off plan was not worth it, especially if you can predict the little amount of time you will have to spend during 2014. However I am glad that, like I said before, you just assume you know the daily schedules and free time of not only real people, but also hypothetical people...

And alright I'll post my complaints in the reverse splitters thread when people take their retake advice out of the ND class of 2017 thread....[/quote]

retake advice works in all threads big guy. I want x school cause of Y lsat - retake advice helps and is pertinent to each c/o thread because we are just trying to either A - help people do what it takes to go to a better school - or B - retake to get more money from said c/o class. by the way. I think people kind of attacked you which isn't cool at all... BUT trust me the retake advice is sound and relevant

[rosepetals66]

[/quote]

retake advice works in all threads big guy. I want x school cause of Y lsat - retake advice helps and is pertinent to each c/o thread because we are just trying to either A - help people do what it takes to go to a better school - or B - retake to get more money from said c/o class. by the way. I think people kind of attacked you which isn't cool at all... BUT trust me the retake advice is sound and relevant[/quote]

Right, but if you remember, I was the one who was told to leave the conversation because I had a different opinion than the God-send retake. How helpful is it to tell me to leave because I disagree with you? I never said retaking is a bad choice, I just highlighted that its MY CHOICE (and likely the choice of a silent minority on here, if not approaching a majority of people who attend law schools nationally).

[sillymike]

Really? You're being a little too assuming on how much time someone has to just study 4 hours a day for 3 months....Lets use the child example. If someone has a child at home, yes a better LSAT score and law school will allow you to provide for said child better....But how about just preparing for the test? A single mother or father may not just have time to put the kid on hold during the hours of 6:00 PM till whenever they go to bed (I'm using 6 as when said parent would be home from work, making dinner, etc.). And lets say they prepare inadequately because of their time constraints and score lower....then the whole taking a cycle off plan was not worth it, especially if you can predict the little amount of time you will have to spend during 2014. However I am glad that, like I said before, you just assume you know the daily schedules and free time of not only real people, but also hypothetical people...

And alright I'll post my complaints in the reverse splitters thread when people take their retake advice out of the ND class of 2017 thread....

If this is your schedule, though, how do you expect to keep up in law school? If you can't find the time to study for a test that's potentially worth tens of thousands of dollars immediately and possibly hundreds and thousands of dollars in the long term, you're going to have a really terrible time in law school.

[John Everyman]

.

[sandwich]

Guys, what happened? We were all getting along so well...

[LyricsToLitigation]

Guys, what happened? We were all getting along so well...

whoooaaaa nevermind.. image was waaaayyy to big.

[kyle010723]

The best advice I was given as a 1L was that: 90 percent of you will not be in the top 10 percent of your class. I think everyone that got into a law school did decently well in undergrad regardless of you major. Myself, and many others, do not believe in T14 or bust (else we wouldn't attend a non-T14). But do be sure you make an informed decision and the decision you made is one that you can live with. If people truly feel that they've reached their max potential in LSAT, then that's fine. I think the sentiment on TLS is that GPA is one that cannot easily be altered, while LSAT score can readily be improved in most cases. There is no right or wrong answer, but be sure you make an informed decision regarding which school to attend, whether to retake the LSAT, or whether the debt amount make sense.

[rosepetals66]

At the end of the day, the only person you need to justify your decision to is yourself. If you are okay with giving up the very real potential of better job prospects, higher salary potential, and more overall prestige (which seems to be more real in law than any other profession), then don't retake and don't bother talking about it. Don't try to convince others in your position that you did the right thing, you didn't.

My concern with rants like yours, and the reason I got so offended (which I do apologize for), is you are justifying a bad decision to group of people who use this website for advice on their future careers.

Okay, and I am letting you know for perhaps the first time in your life that your opinion is YOUR OPINION. It does not automatically make it the RIGHT OPINION for each specific situation. Look at what you just said--don't convince others of my position because I am wrong....If that is how you approach conversation with another human being, how do you expect anyone to ever learn something from your opinion? TLS is a select group of people who again do not represent the majority of the population or what the majority opinion would be. You're telling me I can't talk or share my story because you disagree with me...get over yourself bro.