Notre Dame Law School c/o 2018 (2014-2015 applicants) Forum

[rosepetals66]

The best advice I was given as a 1L was that: 90 percent of you will not be in the top 10 percent of your class. I think everyone that got into a law school did decently well in undergrad regardless of you major. Myself, and many others, do not believe in T14 or bust (else we wouldn't attend a non-T14). But do be sure you make an informed decision and the decision you made is one that you can live with. If people truly feel that they've reached their max potential in LSAT, then thats fine. I think the sentiment on TLS is that GPA is one that cannot easily altered, while LSAT score can readily be improved in most cases. There is no right or wrong answer, but be sure you make an informed decision regarding which school to attend, whether to retake LSAT, or whether the debt amount make sense.

Yes, and I have thought about this over and over since I started reading TLS last summer. And I have come to a decision based upon all factors in my life. Now I'm trying to be excited about a good school I got into (ND) and people are STILL giving me retake advice while also telling me to leave the ND conversation if I don't agree with them....

[sillymike]

At the end of the day, the only person you need to justify your decision to is yourself. If you are okay with giving up the very real potential of better job prospects, higher salary potential, and more overall prestige (which seems to be more real in law than any other profession), then don't retake and don't bother talking about it. Don't try to convince others in your position that you did the right thing, you didn't.

My concern with rants like yours, and the reason I got so offended (which I do apologize for), is you are justifying a bad decision to group of people who use this website for advice on their future careers.

Okay, and I am letting you know for perhaps the first time in your life that your opinion is YOUR OPINION. It does not automatically make it the RIGHT OPINION for each specific situation. Look at what you just said--don't convince others of my position because I am wrong....If that is how you approach conversation with another human being, how do you expect anyone to ever learn something from your opinion? TLS is a select group of people who again do not represent the majority of the population or what the majority opinion would be. You're telling me I can't talk or share my story because you disagree with me...get over yourself bro.

Here's the thing though... he's not wrong. You are making an objectively bad decision. The lsat is improvable and learnable, and you NOT improving on it is creating a worse future for yourself and your child.

I'm also upset that you basically just got an apology and an olive branch, and were incredibly snarky.

[Lebrarian_Booker]

At the end of the day, the only person you need to justify your decision to is yourself. If you are okay with giving up the very real potential of better job prospects, higher salary potential, and more overall prestige (which seems to be more real in law than any other profession), then don't retake and don't bother talking about it. Don't try to convince others in your position that you did the right thing, you didn't.

My concern with rants like yours, and the reason I got so offended (which I do apologize for), is you are justifying a bad decision to group of people who use this website for advice on their future careers.

+1, big time

[rosepetals66]

[/quote]


Here's the thing though... he's not wrong. You are making an objectively bad decision. The lsat is improvable and learnable, and you NOT improving on it is creating a worse future for yourself and your child.

I'm also upset that you basically just got an apology and an olive branch, and were incredibly snarky.[/quote]


Well I don't feel like its an apology when I'm still being told to shut up because I disagree. WTH kind of apology is that.

[Ditka747]

Guys, what happened? We were all getting along so well...

Fightin Irish.

[kyle010723]

Yes, and I have thought about this over and over since I started reading TLS last summer. And I have come to a decision based upon all factors in my life. Now I'm trying to be excited about a good school I got into (ND) and people are STILL giving me retake advice while also telling me to leave the ND conversation if I don't agree with them....

If you weighed the pros and cons and still conclude that this is the right choice, then it does not matter what others tell you. ND is a great school and I will not tell you otherwise. But going to law school in general is a life changing decision, if you are happy with your choice, congratulation and enjoy the final few months before becoming an 1L! The magic of TLS is that if you do matriculate to ND, no one will know who you are anyway, no one will know if you had a 150 or a 180, you will all start on the same starting line as 1Ls. May the odds be ever in your favor.

[rosepetals66]

At the end of the day, the only person you need to justify your decision to is yourself. If you are okay with giving up the very real potential of better job prospects, higher salary potential, and more overall prestige (which seems to be more real in law than any other profession), then don't retake and don't bother talking about it. Don't try to convince others in your position that you did the right thing, you didn't.

My concern with rants like yours, and the reason I got so offended (which I do apologize for), is you are justifying a bad decision to group of people who use this website for advice on their future careers.

+1, big time

I am not trying to convince anyone on here of my opinion? This is the only thread I've posted in and I decided to share my story with people I likely will be classmates with next year if we choose ND. You are the ones who jumped on me for stating my reasons not to retake and enjoy my options. I am not broadcasting my advice anywhere else on this site.

[John Everyman]

.

[Lebrarian_Booker]

At the end of the day, the only person you need to justify your decision to is yourself. If you are okay with giving up the very real potential of better job prospects, higher salary potential, and more overall prestige (which seems to be more real in law than any other profession), then don't retake and don't bother talking about it. Don't try to convince others in your position that you did the right thing, you didn't.

My concern with rants like yours, and the reason I got so offended (which I do apologize for), is you are justifying a bad decision to group of people who use this website for advice on their future careers.

+1, big time

I am not trying to convince anyone on here of my opinion? This is the only thread I've posted in and I decided to share my story with people I likely will be classmates with next year if we choose ND. You are the ones who jumped on me for stating my reasons not to retake and enjoy my options. I am not broadcasting my advice anywhere else on this site.

I think what John Everyman meant was that people read this, see someone else making such a decision, and infer that it is a good or ok decision because they've seen someone else make it. Now, that is not to say that it is your intention to present this as advice, nor even your problem if people read this and are influenced to make similar choices. However, despite you bearing no responsibility for people taking what they see here as advice, I think the fact that it may help to justify their less-than-optimal decision is what bothers John Everyman.

I intend this only as a point of clarification between you, rosepetals66, and John Everyman.

[brrrrcat]

Guys, what happened? We were all getting along so well...

Fightin Irish.

It was an interesting break from waiting for scholarship notices..

To whoever complained about TLS being full of arrogant, anal and ambitious people.. Welcome to working with lawyers!

[rosepetals66]

At the end of the day, the only person you need to justify your decision to is yourself. If you are okay with giving up the very real potential of better job prospects, higher salary potential, and more overall prestige (which seems to be more real in law than any other profession), then don't retake and don't bother talking about it. Don't try to convince others in your position that you did the right thing, you didn't.

My concern with rants like yours, and the reason I got so offended (which I do apologize for), is you are justifying a bad decision to group of people who use this website for advice on their future careers.

+1, big time

I am not trying to convince anyone on here of my opinion? This is the only thread I've posted in and I decided to share my story with people I likely will be classmates with next year if we choose ND. You are the ones who jumped on me for stating my reasons not to retake and enjoy my options. I am not broadcasting my advice anywhere else on this site.

I think what John Everyman meant was that people read this, see someone else making such a decision, and infer that it is a good or ok decision because they've seen someone else make it. Now, that is not to say that it is your intention, nor even your problem, that people may read this and be influenced to make similar choices. I intend this only as a point of clarification between you, rosepetals66, and John Everyman.

I guess on TLS if you don't drink the kool-aid you're asked to gtfo....of a Notre Dame applicants thread.

[Lebrarian_Booker]

[John Everyman]

.

[rosepetals66]

lol....both those images made me giggle. Alright I'm gonna stfu just because I don't have the patience to keep commenting. Good luck everyone!

[Lebrarian_Booker]

lol....both those images made me giggle. Alright I'm gonna stfu just because I don't have the patience to keep commenting. Good luck everyone!

glad it made you lol

[palbatron]

lol....both those images made me giggle. Alright I'm gonna stfu just because I don't have the patience to keep commenting. Good luck everyone!

In the grand scheme of things, none of this really matters. Actually, nothing matters. Nihilism!

[Lebrarian_Booker]

lol....both those images made me giggle. Alright I'm gonna stfu just because I don't have the patience to keep commenting. Good luck everyone!

In the grand scheme of things, none of this really matters. Actually, nothing matters. Nihilism!

[ManoftheHour]

I had a 161 and 3.9 GPA and was accepted this cycle to ND (applied in October, found out my acceptance in December--not sure if applying early helped my weak LSAT). I was also promised an "academic scholarship" in the packet; still waiting on the email to make a decision--though ND is currently my top choice. It just will be difficult to finance if I don't get enough off (plus U of Wisconsin gave me half off what I will pay for in-state tuition as a Wisco resident; so that is an attractive option too).

As for the retake advice that permeates TLS, I too don't have the time to retake the LSAT. I took the June 2013 test and studied for 2.5 weeks at about 4-5 hours a day. I did not have time to study it longer (people usually advise 3-4 months) because I was taking classes, working part time, and participating in the off-season practices/workouts for football (I played for my undergrad). During the 2.5 weeks that I studied, it was one of the most boring anti-social periods of my life. I literally hated studying because: 1. It consumed all my free time. 2. I couldn't talk to anyone about this all-consuming activity because no one really cares about your logic games or whether you did good on a practice test or not---they just know you're "studying" and see it as a kind-of-important chore like cleaning your room. The rest of the world doesn't stop demanding your time for things like parents coming to visit, boss wants you to work more randomly, or your coach needs you at practice for 3 hours. So in that sense, I cannot imagine trying to restudy the LSAT for 3 months during 2014, plus put myself a year behind making money by having to reapply for 2015. As a current senior in undergrad, I still do not have the time or patience to devote to such a boring test. I'm honestly happy I pulled a 161 with the test anxiety I had that day (test anxiety which I might add was partly caused by reading TLS and panicking that it is the "biggest test of your life" because if you mess up you HAVE to retake or quit being a lawyer).

I would rather take my chances at a good school that I got into with my GPA (such as ND) and compete for class rank and jobs there. I want to remain in the Midwest (probably Indiana) anyways, so it doesn't make sense to take a year off just to get into a T14 program that primarily feeds into the East and West coasts.

From my experience, most of the people on TLS are already some of the most anal, ambitious people in the profession--but they do not represent the majority of people who want to become lawyers. Therefore they don't have the authority to just demand retakes out of every sub-170 score. You don't know my situation, goals, time commitments or any other factors besides numbers of my LSAT and GPA. Hell, someone could have a kid at home they need to take care of or maybe they want a local law school because they cannot afford to move to another city. It's just annoying to always have this shock factor at refusing to retake....especially when some of us splitters actually have excellent options for our target markets, like ND or Wisco.


Sorry....End TLS Rant.

Retake.

I don't get why people get all offended. It's honestly the best advice I ever got. I almost took ND at STICKER last cycle. Now I'm hoping for that $$$...or not even going to law school altogether because a new career path has opened up in my year off!


<----- Retook 3 times

[McAvoy]

I had a 161 and 3.9 GPA and was accepted this cycle to ND (applied in October, found out my acceptance in December--not sure if applying early helped my weak LSAT). I was also promised an "academic scholarship" in the packet; still waiting on the email to make a decision--though ND is currently my top choice. It just will be difficult to finance if I don't get enough off (plus U of Wisconsin gave me half off what I will pay for in-state tuition as a Wisco resident; so that is an attractive option too).

As for the retake advice that permeates TLS, I too don't have the time to retake the LSAT. I took the June 2013 test and studied for 2.5 weeks at about 4-5 hours a day. I did not have time to study it longer (people usually advise 3-4 months) because I was taking classes, working part time, and participating in the off-season practices/workouts for football (I played for my undergrad). During the 2.5 weeks that I studied, it was one of the most boring anti-social periods of my life. I literally hated studying because: 1. It consumed all my free time. 2. I couldn't talk to anyone about this all-consuming activity because no one really cares about your logic games or whether you did good on a practice test or not---they just know you're "studying" and see it as a kind-of-important chore like cleaning your room. The rest of the world doesn't stop demanding your time for things like parents coming to visit, boss wants you to work more randomly, or your coach needs you at practice for 3 hours. So in that sense, I cannot imagine trying to restudy the LSAT for 3 months during 2014, plus put myself a year behind making money by having to reapply for 2015. As a current senior in undergrad, I still do not have the time or patience to devote to such a boring test. I'm honestly happy I pulled a 161 with the test anxiety I had that day (test anxiety which I might add was partly caused by reading TLS and panicking that it is the "biggest test of your life" because if you mess up you HAVE to retake or quit being a lawyer).

I would rather take my chances at a good school that I got into with my GPA (such as ND) and compete for class rank and jobs there. I want to remain in the Midwest (probably Indiana) anyways, so it doesn't make sense to take a year off just to get into a T14 program that primarily feeds into the East and West coasts.

From my experience, most of the people on TLS are already some of the most anal, ambitious people in the profession--but they do not represent the majority of people who want to become lawyers. Therefore they don't have the authority to just demand retakes out of every sub-170 score. You don't know my situation, goals, time commitments or any other factors besides numbers of my LSAT and GPA. Hell, someone could have a kid at home they need to take care of or maybe they want a local law school because they cannot afford to move to another city. It's just annoying to always have this shock factor at refusing to retake....especially when some of us splitters actually have excellent options for our target markets, like ND or Wisco.


Sorry....End TLS Rant.

Retake.

I don't get why people get all offended. It's honestly the best advice I ever got. I almost took ND at STICKER last cycle. Now I'm hoping for that $$$...or not even going to law school altogether because a new career path has opened up in my year off!


<----- Retook 3 times

TITCR

There are perhaps three legitimate reasons for not attempting at least one retake:
- You scored a 175 or greater
- You decided not to go to law school
- You are dead

[McAvoy]

And, sorry, but you're straight up lying to yourself, rosepetals, if you're calling Wisco at half price an "excellent" option. It's an excellent option for graduating with comparatively little debt and for handling DUIs in Stevens Point, but it's a really average option otherwise.

As unfair as it may seem to you, all of that effort you put in to getting a 3.9 means far less than the 2.5 weeks you spent prepping for the LSAT. The LSAT is the most important factor for admissions; it's beyond debate. Why put so much effort into things that don't matter for admissions (softs, DIII football) and no effort into the thing that matters most? Then get very angry when people tell you these things that are beyond dispute? If you want to be a "corporate lawyer in Indy," there is no way you can seriously think a token scholarship at ND is the superior option to retaking.

[sandwich]

TITCR

There are perhaps three legitimate reasons for not attempting at least one retake:
- You scored a 175 or greater
- You decided not to go to law school
- You are dead

Don't really want to get involved in the debate, but I couldn't help noticing that people seem to be very sensitive about what is posted here for future generations. I understand the fear that some turkey in the future could base their decisions on the fact that someone else has done something.

So, for those in the future who stumble upon this thread: I'll just add that I retook a 170+ score, and in my case, I'm glad I did. Thinking that nobody else would ever retake a "decent" score is no longer a reason not to do it


Also, I have to disagree with some of the above. I died last year, and still managed to sit for the Feb. administration. I mean, it was hard, because being dead is actually more time-consuming than you would think. But I improved a full 61 points! I'm pretty sure I sat next to Kurt Cobain, so anecdotally, it's more common than LSN would indicate.

[AnonymousAlterEgoC]

Nietzsche wasn't a nihilist.

Read more: http://atheism.about.com/od/nihilismnih ... tzsche.htm.

[yossarian]

Guys. Notre Dame. Gold Dome. Clarence Thomas. That $$$$. Law School Boxing Tournament. Catholic girlz. Academic rigor. Chicago externship. Manti Te'o. Leprechauns.

[Ricky-Bobby]

Guys. Notre Dame. Gold Dome. Clarence Thomas. That $$$$. Law School Boxing Tournament. Catholic girlz. Academic rigor. Chicago externship. Manti Te'o. Leprechauns.

"Virginia, Virginia don't make me wait. You Catholic girls start much too late."

Not true.

Source: Went to Catholic high school.

[RollingthruLawSchool]

Notre Dame got my hopes up again. The outside of the envelope was clearly marked University of Notre Dame Law School and I was hoping it was scholarship information, but it wasn't. Instead, it was more propaganda about how Notre Dame is amazing place (I know this already – it's why I applied). Can they just tell me if I'm going to get a scholarship or not already!!