UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

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dd235
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby dd235 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:40 pm

follywood wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:
follywood wrote:But neither of us can deny that the administration is intentionally reducing their student body. USA Today, WSJ, and Above the Law reported it in May, 2012 (http://abovethelaw.com/2012/05/the-hastings-gambit/). Their recent reductions reflect this. I suppose that an intentional 20% reduction in class size translates, at least for me, into some increase in selectivity of the applicant pool. But I have no proof of this.

Of course, please correct me if I am flat-out wrong about anything. I don't want to mislead anybody, including myself.


No. Just no.

This is TTT reasoning, dawg:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... XZnc#gid=0

Hastings INCREASED their class size last year by 14 people while letting their LSAT 25th/50th/75th FALL about 3 points each (almost. Their 75th fell by only 2). Their MEDIAN is now under 160. The median LSAT for Hastings for the last entering class is 159.


ManoftheHour, I like that document. Thanks for sharing it. Also, you're right about the LSATs going down.

As for TTT reasoning, I don't know what that means. But, perhaps I haven't been clear about my sources and dates. Here are the numbers of the entering classes from the last three year at Hastings:

2011: 414 (source: http://www.uchastings.edu/about/consumer-info/docs/2011_UC_Hastings_Std509.pdf)
2012: 317 (source: http://www.uchastings.edu/about/consumer-info/docs/2012_aba-509.pdf)
2013: 333 (source: http://www.uchastings.edu/about/consumer-info/docs/UC_Hastings_Std509_2013.pdf)

In 2012, Hastings cut its admissions by about 23% and increased it by 4% in 2013. As far as I see it--and, please, correct me if I'm mistaken--that is about in line with the dean's goal, laid out in 2012 (and sourced above), of reducing the class sizes by 20%. If you don't think that is intentional, please explain why.

The median LSAT scores dropped. No doubt about it. Perhaps there is a correlation between the reduction in class size (-20ish%) and the tradition of admitting 20% of the incoming class through LEOP (source for LEOP proportion: http://www.uchastings.edu/academics/education/leop/apply/index.php)? What do you think?

Anyway, I don't mean to offend you or anyone else. I'm really trying to be reasonable and respectful. I just want to have an informed discussion. Although you may not be seriously considering this school, a lot of people are.


Here's a thread discussing the possible affect of the drop in admissions on employment.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=222076

What are your guys' thoughts on this? I mean, for example, if a school lands 200/400 (50%) in full-time JD required jobs and then cuts their class size to 300 students, there are two schools of thought on what might happen...
1) they continue to land 200 students full-time JD required job and therefore have stats of 200/300 (66%), or
2) They maintain or even diminish their "employment score" and therefore have stats of 150/300 (50%)

I personally would tend to think that the first scenario is more likely, however I am not as knowledgable about firm hiring mentality. I could definitely see why firms wouldn't want to hire students in the bottom 50%.

californiauser
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby californiauser » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:47 pm

dd235 wrote:I personally would tend to think that the first scenario is more likely, however I am not as knowledgable about firm hiring mentality. I could definitely see why firms wouldn't want to hire students in the bottom 50%.


Big law firms aren't dipping below the top 10% except in special circumstances. It won't matter if the class size is 800 or 200.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby ManoftheHour » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:57 pm

follywood wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:
follywood wrote:But neither of us can deny that the administration is intentionally reducing their student body. USA Today, WSJ, and Above the Law reported it in May, 2012 (http://abovethelaw.com/2012/05/the-hastings-gambit/). Their recent reductions reflect this. I suppose that an intentional 20% reduction in class size translates, at least for me, into some increase in selectivity of the applicant pool. But I have no proof of this.

Of course, please correct me if I am flat-out wrong about anything. I don't want to mislead anybody, including myself.


No. Just no.

This is TTT reasoning, dawg:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... XZnc#gid=0

Hastings INCREASED their class size last year by 14 people while letting their LSAT 25th/50th/75th FALL about 3 points each (almost. Their 75th fell by only 2). Their MEDIAN is now under 160. The median LSAT for Hastings for the last entering class is 159.


ManoftheHour, I like that document. Thanks for sharing it. Also, you're right about the LSATs going down.

As for TTT reasoning, I don't know what that means. But, perhaps I haven't been clear about my sources and dates. Here are the numbers of the entering classes from the last three year at Hastings:

2011: 414 (source: http://www.uchastings.edu/about/consumer-info/docs/2011_UC_Hastings_Std509.pdf)
2012: 317 (source: http://www.uchastings.edu/about/consumer-info/docs/2012_aba-509.pdf)
2013: 333 (source: http://www.uchastings.edu/about/consumer-info/docs/UC_Hastings_Std509_2013.pdf)

In 2012, Hastings cut its admissions by about 23% and increased it by 4% in 2013. As far as I see it--and, please, correct me if I'm mistaken--that is about in line with the dean's goal, laid out in 2012 (and sourced above), of reducing the class sizes by 20%. If you don't think that is intentional, please explain why.

The median LSAT scores dropped. No doubt about it. Perhaps there is a correlation between the reduction in class size (-20ish%) and the tradition of admitting 20% of the incoming class through LEOP (source for LEOP proportion: http://www.uchastings.edu/academics/education/leop/apply/index.php)? What do you think?

Anyway, I don't mean to offend you or anyone else. I'm really trying to be reasonable and respectful. I just want to have an informed discussion. Although you may not be seriously considering this school, a lot of people are.


Ah, no disrespect intended. Facts are facts and both of ours are legit. I think we just disagreed on what "recent" meant.

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follywood
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby follywood » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:00 pm

californiauser wrote:
dd235 wrote:I personally would tend to think that the first scenario is more likely, however I am not as knowledgable about firm hiring mentality. I could definitely see why firms wouldn't want to hire students in the bottom 50%.


Big law firms aren't dipping below the top 10% except in special circumstances. It won't matter if the class size is 800 or 200.


From what little I've seen, this seems often the case. Go to the webpages of some firms and look at the biographies of their attorneys. You'll often see "cum laude" or "magna cum laude" written after the law school attended. Many of them were also members of law reviews.

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follywood
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby follywood » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:06 pm

ManoftheHour wrote:Ah, no disrespect intended. Facts are facts and both of ours are legit. I think we just disagreed on what "recent" meant.


Agreed. I'll try to be more clear. Thanks again for that database. It's really interesting to look at other schools. It looks like Northwestern dropped 3 points in their LSAT 25% and 2 points in their LSAT 50%. It also looks like there are drops in every school from University of Chicago through University of Missouri. I wonder if there is a large trend?

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dd235
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby dd235 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:16 pm

californiauser wrote:
dd235 wrote:I personally would tend to think that the first scenario is more likely, however I am not as knowledgable about firm hiring mentality. I could definitely see why firms wouldn't want to hire students in the bottom 50%.


Big law firms aren't dipping below the top 10% except in special circumstances. It won't matter if the class size is 800 or 200.


Ya I understand that big law stats won't change much (they might even dip), but what about non-big law? Do you think hiring will be remain the same for them?

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follywood
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby follywood » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:10 am

dd235 wrote:
californiauser wrote:
dd235 wrote:I personally would tend to think that the first scenario is more likely, however I am not as knowledgable about firm hiring mentality. I could definitely see why firms wouldn't want to hire students in the bottom 50%.


Big law firms aren't dipping below the top 10% except in special circumstances. It won't matter if the class size is 800 or 200.


Ya I understand that big law stats won't change much (they might even dip), but what about non-big law? Do you think hiring will be remain the same for them?


With regard to statistics detailing the hiring rate of Hastings alumni at smaller firms vs. larger firms--how marvelous it would be to know!--I cannot answer that because I don't know or have any data. But I can attempt to comment on the likelihood of getting hired at either.

In an effort to broaden my perspective of this huge decision of law school, I've been interviewing lawyers who are graduates of particular schools. One of the Hastings graduates, a lawyer in San Francisco big law who graduated in the top 10%, broke it down: A student can incur a lot of debt by attending law school--easily $150,000, and after graduation, unless a job is lined up before graduation, that student will need to find a way to pay back $500 - $1,000 per month, depending on the loan's life. Big law is often the surest way to do that, while also maintaining a desirable standard of living. However, a huge majority (though I would hope all) of the students also know this.

Now, if you are one of the 90% who aren't in the top 10% (with 9/10 chances, there's a very good chance you will be), it'll come especially hard for you because, as californiauser mentioned, and as is the tradition at this lawyer's firm and countless others in the Bay Area, according to this lawyer, by and large the top 10-15% will be the ones getting interviewed and employed. Meanwhile, those 10-15% will also be facing a little competition from USF and SCU, and heavy competition from Berkeley, and not even end up counting as competition against Stanford alumni. Plus, there are graduates of other T14s either returning home or wanting to work in the desirable Bay Area.

Let's pretend you are top 20%. I would assume, as someone in the top 20%, but not the top 10-15%, you will have a couple forces already working against you: 1, the competition the Hastings 10% faces and, 2, the Hastings 10% not yet employed in big law, who may opt for a smaller firm to pay back those massive loans. I imagine the difficulty or likelihood would increase the farther you go down in class ranking.

Of course, we can't foretell how you, dd235, who may end up as one of californiauser's special circumstances, will be employed. But there is seemingly insurmountable pressure to place as highly as possible in your class, especially during the first year.

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bkegslounge
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby bkegslounge » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:02 pm

Just got my scholarship offer. I submitted Need Access on Monday then I received an email from Hastings yesterday saying they are reviewing my Need Access and today I got the offer... very quick turnaround especially considering the massive amount of information on that stupid thing.

Anyway, the offer was $13,000/yr (for a total of $39,000) granted I maintained "satisfactory academic progress" (aka good standing) which is a 2.2 GPA. My stats are on my profile.

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Jamesta25
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby Jamesta25 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:24 pm

bkegslounge wrote:Just got my scholarship offer. I submitted Need Access on Monday then I received an email from Hastings yesterday saying they are reviewing my Need Access and today I got the offer... very quick turnaround especially considering the massive amount of information on that stupid thing.

Anyway, the offer was $13,000/yr (for a total of $39,000) granted I maintained "satisfactory academic progress" (aka good standing) which is a 2.2 GPA. My stats are on my profile.

Got the exact same offer. Definitely thrilled but hoping I can increase that at least by a few thousand dollars per year. Definitely a pleasantly early surprise! Didn't expect an offer for another week or so, as I submitted NeedAccess late last week. Very quick turnaround.

gtrdo316
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby gtrdo316 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:33 pm

Same offer here as well.

Ally Mcbeal
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby Ally Mcbeal » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:35 pm

Jamesta25 wrote:
bkegslounge wrote:Just got my scholarship offer. I submitted Need Access on Monday then I received an email from Hastings yesterday saying they are reviewing my Need Access and today I got the offer... very quick turnaround especially considering the massive amount of information on that stupid thing.

Anyway, the offer was $13,000/yr (for a total of $39,000) granted I maintained "satisfactory academic progress" (aka good standing) which is a 2.2 GPA. My stats are on my profile.

Got the exact same offer. Definitely thrilled but hoping I can increase that at least by a few thousand dollars per year. Definitely a pleasantly early surprise! Didn't expect an offer for another week or so, as I submitted NeedAccess late last week. Very quick turnaround.


+1 Same offer

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bkegslounge
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby bkegslounge » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:37 pm

Ally Mcbeal wrote:
Jamesta25 wrote:
bkegslounge wrote:Just got my scholarship offer. I submitted Need Access on Monday then I received an email from Hastings yesterday saying they are reviewing my Need Access and today I got the offer... very quick turnaround especially considering the massive amount of information on that stupid thing.

Anyway, the offer was $13,000/yr (for a total of $39,000) granted I maintained "satisfactory academic progress" (aka good standing) which is a 2.2 GPA. My stats are on my profile.

Got the exact same offer. Definitely thrilled but hoping I can increase that at least by a few thousand dollars per year. Definitely a pleasantly early surprise! Didn't expect an offer for another week or so, as I submitted NeedAccess late last week. Very quick turnaround.


+1 Same offer

Interesting... would you guys mind posting or PMing me your stats?

I wonder how much they really took Need Access into consideration if we're all getting the same offers.

herewego408
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby herewego408 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:45 pm

Same offer as well. And I submitted last Thursday evening. Pretty excited about the turnaround.

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Jamesta25
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby Jamesta25 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:14 pm

Looking at the Hastings Scholarships page (http://www.uchastings.edu/about/admin-o ... /index.php), it appears there are multiple types of scholarships that entering students can be awarded. I wonder if we might be able to receive a combination of these scholarships? Or do you think this offer we received is it?

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bkegslounge
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby bkegslounge » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:11 pm

Jamesta25 wrote:Looking at the Hastings Scholarships page (http://www.uchastings.edu/about/admin-o ... /index.php), it appears there are multiple types of scholarships that entering students can be awarded. I wonder if we might be able to receive a combination of these scholarships? Or do you think this offer we received is it?

Mine doesn't have a name... it just says UC Hastings Scholarship. On that link they have a "UC Hastings Merit Scholarship" though but that only goes up to $10,000. So maybe the $3,000 extra is need based? No idea...

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Frozinite
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby Frozinite » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:53 pm

Woohoo, just got my acceptance email!

Submitted 12/20
Completed 1/6

PM for stats.


I lived 2 blocks from the school this summer, it's a bit scary. Also, Drugs, Inc did an episode dedicated just to that area too, whoops.

:P

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Systematic1
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby Systematic1 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:37 pm

In via email! Good luck to everyone still waiting.

STATS: 165/3.4x

Moonlight
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby Moonlight » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:10 pm

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Jamesta25
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby Jamesta25 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:19 pm

Moonlight wrote:Hey all! I got the same $13,000 scholarship renewable for all 3 years.

I think this is that need-based grant scholarship that everyone gets. It was $13,500 for last year's class I think. They sometimes increase it when the school year starts based on past forum posting threads.

I believe we can get more. My friend called them today and she said that they said this was pre-liminary and that more would come potentially.

Fingers crossed all!!

Does that mean we will potentially get additional merit-based $$ if this is need-based? Did they tell your friend when we might receive any updates or increases?

Moonlight
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby Moonlight » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:48 pm

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Jamesta25
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby Jamesta25 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:07 pm

Moonlight wrote:
So my understanding is that their scholarships all have a need based component so I call them hybrids meaning you need need-based and merit. I think this was true of this UC Hastings Scholarship as well, but perhaps the bar was lower and that everyone who was accepted is considered worthy of it. But yea I have friends there who have additional merit-based $$. They're a year above us though, but hope that helps as a reference point.

What they told my friend is that they are doing more scholarship reviews and offers in the coming few weeks so we took it as upcoming 2-3 weeks?

More scholarship reviews/offers for those already with scholarships?

Moonlight
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby Moonlight » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:15 am

That was our understanding

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fallingwater
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby fallingwater » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:18 am

Accepted yesterday! Going to fill out all my financial forms in the morning. Interested to hear more about additional funding beyond the seemingly standard $13K. Let's keep each other posted. Congrats to all admits and good luck to those still pending!

Moonlight
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby Moonlight » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:22 am

Congrats!! Welcome to the potential Sharks family! :)

And yea let's all keep each other posted. It'd be cool if we all end up meeting up at some point in the near future.

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bkegslounge
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Re: UC Hastings c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014)

Postby bkegslounge » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:10 pm

Moonlight wrote:Congrats!! Welcome to the potential Sharks family! :)

And yea let's all keep each other posted. It'd be cool if we all end up meeting up at some point in the near future.

Sharks is the mascot? Why does Hastings need a mascot if it's just a law school with no sports teams...? But I digress... I feel like their scholarship email should have mentioned that this was need-based money and there could be potentially more heading our way, if in fact that's the case.




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