WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.

How old are you?

21-
11
12%
22-23
27
29%
24-26
38
40%
27-30
14
15%
30+
4
4%
 
Total votes: 94

PrideandGlory1776
Posts: 307
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:14 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby PrideandGlory1776 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:18 pm

Section C/D sounds great
Last edited by PrideandGlory1776 on Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Zaffy
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:53 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby Zaffy » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:38 pm

Section D


=D

User avatar
DoveBodyWash
Posts: 3087
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby DoveBodyWash » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:42 pm

I realize that lurkers will see this junk, especially cuz someone posted the TLS thread to your class FB page. But ultimately all will happen as God wills it. And 80% of people don't end up actually following/remembering the advice they get. So it doesn't end up mattering anyway.

I had Tamanaha, Baker, and Mandelker in the Fall. If you have concerns about my credentials then PM me i guess.

You won't understand some of this yet because you haven't learned anything, but save this post and come back to it later.

Here's how i'm gonna lay it out for you guys for each professor:
1. What you need to know about each prof as far as their style/topical tilt.
2. Whether you need to actually brief/read the cases thoroughly.
3. Resources to get as far as outlines/supplements
4. What the exam is like
5. Minimum you need to understand to have a shot at solid grade (defined as A- or better)
6. How to approach the class throughout the semester
7. Practice exam strategy

Mandelker
What you need to know about him: His specialty is land use law. His material and exam will have an environmental tilt (e.g. conservation easements)...he'll gloss over some bread and better topics (e.g. bailments) and won't cover some at all (e.g. rule against perpetuities). He permits laptop use, in fact he encourages it. At the beginning of every class he'll put up a list of questions related to the assigned reading. Occasionally he'll put up various statutes from different states.

Cases and readings: Pay attention. Do NOT FALL BEHIND in the readings and briefing for this class. I didn't brief a single case all year except for Mandelker's property. His final exam is ENTIRELY BASED off the cases/statutes that you cover in class. It's boring as shit, i know. But don't fall behind.

Resources: Collect as many outlines from 2Ls and 3Ls as you can. I compiled 6 and sorted them into a master outline for the exam. Also spend the money on getting the current edition of the casebook. You need to refer to page numbers on the exam so the page numbers have to be current. You can buy a commercial outline like Emmanuel's but it's not essential to do well, i barely opened mine.

Minimum you need to know: You need to be able to read a fact pattern and what topic it is. It's harder than it sounds, every year kids pick the wrong topic for a question. Once you know the topic, you can go to your outline and you can find which case it's emulating. Time isn't an issue for this final.

The exam itself: Three hours. Completely open book. Five questions. 300 words per question. And you get an extra 100 words to allot at your leisure. I was literally learning property law during the exam. It will test you on the cases AND the statutes that you covered as a class.

How to approach the class: When he puts up class questions, take a picture with your phone. Type out the answers as you go over them in class. When he puts up a statute, take a picture of it with your phone. At the end of every week organize your cases and statutes into the appropriate topic. There ends up being over 100 cases and close to 70 statutes that you need to know. It's a pain in the ass to try to do it all at the end of the term. If you stay on top of it throughout the semester, you won't have to study at all for the final minus a cursory review and you can channel that time into other exams.

Practice Exams: Don't bother taking practice exams from other profs. No one else has exams like Mandelker and it's completely dependent on which 5 topics he chooses to test you on. There will be 3-4 of his previous exams that 2Ls and 3Ls could give you. Take them, but honestly it won't help you as far as the actual final. It'll just get you used to flipping through your outline/statutes.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Tamanaha
What you need to know about him: He's the man. He understands how much is at stake and is extremely fair about giving advice to students, he won't tell anyone to anything regarding the exam unless it's in front of the whole class. He's demanding and expects a lot, but he's one of those professors that you're thankful to have had. He's very methodical and systematic with his analysis and he does his best to train you to do the same. If you do well on this man's exam, you are a Baller per se in my book.

Cases and readings: He picks one person and sticks with him/her the entire class. If it's a super section class, then he'll stay on 2-3 ppl the entire time. If you're embarrassed, it's fine. Literally has happened to all of us who had him at one point. The crucial thing is to pay attention when SOMEONE ELSE is on call, because you need to pay attention to how he's analyzing it. Not necessary to keep up with readings to do well on exam, but you'll find yourself wanting to impress him. Torts readings are comparatively quick as well so it won't be too painful. He also permits laptops. He knows when kids aren't paying attention, but he doesn't give a shit since it's on the student to be responsible about it (told me this over dinner).

Resources: Join PAD, download the CALI outline from their exam bank. I think all of us ended up using this. Buy Emmanuel's Torts supplement if you need extra help. His entire course can be boiled down to one page for the exam. Also get E&E's, they are essential.

Minimum you need to know: You will fail his final if you don't have a strong understanding of negligence and vicarious liability. Those two topics make up the back bone of every single one of his finals. Products Liability comes up occasionally, and it's a heavy hitter point-wise, but not to the degree of negligence/vicarious liability.

The exam itself: Three hours. Open book. Horse race issue spotter. This means that you accumulate points by spotting issues. The focus here should be broad and shallow analysis that covers as many torts as possible. Fast typers have an advantage here. But you can overcome that if you take enough practice tests to the point where the analysis and typing is robotic and instant. If you're sitting in the exam room opening up a supplement to look shit up, it's game over. You should know the elements of each tort completely and probably never even look at your outline during the exam. That's the goal anyway.

How to approach the class: PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. This isn't chess. This is running around your high school reunion and hitting as many ppl as you can with a bat in three hours. There are at least seven Tamanaha exams out there. I have all seven if you want them. Take ALL OF THEM. Do E&E problems with ur study group at the end of each topic. Starting in late October/early November, take full practice tests with them. My study group didn't start with full-timed tests. We "burned" the first two exams by taking as much time as we needed and trying to spot all the issues. Once we got good at it, we started taking them under time restraints. Tamanaha, being brilliant, will drop all this knowledge on you during class, enough to fill dozens of pages. But the exam is literally just testing you on the elements of each tort, which fits neatly in one page.

Practice Exams: When you look at one of his exams. You will have a heart attack and think you're fucked. It's okay. I did too. His exams are incredibly dense fact patterns of all these actors just fucking each other over and you gotta figure out who to sue. Parties will tangle and claims will criss-cross. Often times you'll have situation where one party can sue multiple people or can be sued by multiple people. Some people organize their answer by parties (e.g. Susie sues XYZ for all this shit...then Bob sues ABC for all this shit...etc.. ). Others organize them by torts (e.g. all the negligence claims first..then intentional torts..then privacy..etc..) Personally i think the first method is the most efficient way of doing it, but it's up to you. If you want to get max points, you REALLY NEED to lay it out for Tamanaha. Here's an example:

Susie v. Bob
Count 1: Susie sues Bob for battery. Bob pushed Susie. Bob did it intentionally. This was harmful and offensive contact. Therefore Bob should be guilty of battery.

Count 2: Susie sues Bob for negligence. blah blah

versus
Susie v. Bob
Count 1: Susie (P) sues Bob (D) for battery. D pushed P. D acted with purpose to push P and inflict harmful and offensive contact on her person. Even if he did not, a reasonable person would have substantial certainty that P would suffer harmful and offensive contact when unexpectedly pushed. P did in fact suffer harmful and offensive contact when she was pushed because a reasonable person would find being pushed as harmful and offensive contact.

Count 2: Susie sues Bob for negligence. blah blah


(Fuck I really don't remember torts..)

Compare the two answers. Both cover the same elements (intent, harmful/offensive contact) but the latter answer is far superior from a point perspective. Imagine squeezing out as much toothpaste as you can from an almost-empty tube. That's how you should write your exam. You should feel like you're literally squeezing out every possible element of the tort. Also note how I used P and D in the second answer. It'll speed things up if you abbreviate. If you have multiple plaintiffs/defendants in one Count, then use P1, P2, P3....D1, D2, D3...

Bonus pro-tip: Tamanaha says don't be conclusory. The first example i gave, the author said "Bob should be guilty of Battery." Don't do that. When he says conclusory, it means don't provide a conclusive statement about whether the defendant is or is not liable. Some people hear that and think it means that they can't say any analytical statement without qualifying it with a bunch of disclaimers. That's not what it means, don't do that. It's a waste of time, which is precious for this exam.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Baker

I reserve the right to save this wisdom for my padawan. But go to PAD outline bank and download my Baker outline. There are a few others on there...but they don't compare in quality/clarity/organization (Not humblebrag, the other ones aren't as good. If they were, then would have just used them instead of making my own) Also, buy "Acing Contracts"
Last edited by DoveBodyWash on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:20 pm, edited 5 times in total.

User avatar
AceDeuces
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:14 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby AceDeuces » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:55 pm

Yo team. been awhile since I've TLS'd. Cuse I've been reading through your stuff man. Thanks as always. You're a hero.

Section D. Let's go.

User avatar
DoveBodyWash
Posts: 3087
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby DoveBodyWash » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:19 pm

AceDeuces wrote:Yo team. been awhile since I've TLS'd. Cuse I've been reading through your stuff man. Thanks as always. You're a hero.

Section D. Let's go.

my pleasure. I was also Section D lol

DecisionTime999
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:08 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby DecisionTime999 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:45 pm

Long-time lurker here, just found out I'll be in section B.

Scotti, feel free to add me to the list in that other thread. Just checked it and saw that Columbia was only one behind us. This cannot stand. >=(

User avatar
rahulg91
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:30 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby rahulg91 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:48 pm

PrideandGlory1776 wrote:Section F - any rising 2L mentors available?

User avatar
sublime
Posts: 15395
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby sublime » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:01 pm

..

11:11
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:59 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby 11:11 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:25 pm

Would anyone be willing to post (or shoot me a PM) on how to find the c/o 2017 Facebook group?

User avatar
chuckbass
Posts: 9957
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:29 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby chuckbass » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:39 pm

I wanted the D, got the D, and I'm happy.

User avatar
chuckbass
Posts: 9957
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:29 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby chuckbass » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:15 pm

DecisionTime999 wrote:Long-time lurker here, just found out I'll be in section B.

Scotti, feel free to add me to the list in that other thread. Just checked it and saw that Columbia was only one behind us. This cannot stand. >=(

Perfect.

User avatar
Dredd_2017
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:24 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby Dredd_2017 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:03 am

Cuse you're the best, even though I'm in section B I can tell that section on Mandelker is going to be indispensable. Prepare yourself for many free drinks in the Fall, ideally in an air conditioned bar because I've seen the weather map for St. Louis in the August and jesus.

Sublime, did you have Badawi or Norwood last year? Just sayin' I'll have plenty of loan money for more drinks :D

yankees12
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:31 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby yankees12 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:54 am

I don't think any of the rising 2Ls had Badawi, but he's awesome. He's great at explaining everything and really helpful in office hours. He doesn't allow laptops in class, so be prepared for that. His exam was 3 hours and there was a pretty generous word limit (maybe 1000 words/question?). I think there's at least one outline on the PAD bank for him.

To add on to cuse's advice for Tamanaha, he strongly recommends that you take notes in the margins of the case book rather than writing separate case briefs. I think this works well for his class. Also, don't worry about the horserace thing if you're not a fast typer - it's helpful to type a lot, but the person who types the most is not necessarily the person who gets the highest grade (I know this is true for my class).

taker_of_lsats
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:32 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby taker_of_lsats » Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:44 am

I just looked up Tamanaha and am pretty blown away. The guy is a hero. So glad I am in section C.

User avatar
georgej
Posts: 2367
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:55 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby georgej » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:17 am

Section E!

User avatar
njdevils2626
Posts: 384
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:53 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby njdevils2626 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:36 am

georgej wrote:Section E!


Yay friends

User avatar
Fiero85
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:38 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby Fiero85 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:48 am

I of course was bored all day and then busy (drinking) when these were released. But I did check my phone and was happy to see my first C of law school :)

P.S. useless powers are fun

User avatar
georgej
Posts: 2367
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:55 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby georgej » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:33 am

njdevils2626 wrote:
georgej wrote:Section E!


Yay friends


Sweet let's start outlining.

P.s. my mother is Quebecois so I can give you tips on adjusting to life down south here in the states.

User avatar
Savage13
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:06 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby Savage13 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:42 am

Is there something we are supposed to check to see section assignments? I have not gotten an email.

User avatar
DoveBodyWash
Posts: 3087
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby DoveBodyWash » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:45 am

sublime wrote:And damn Cuse. You weren't lying about being bored this summer. :lol:

you don't even know man.

HeroGothamDeserves
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:20 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby HeroGothamDeserves » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:26 pm

I could post info from my experiences with Greenfield, Norwood, Konig, and Flagg (as well as Drobak and Inazu but from what I understand those two profs aren't up at bat this semester) for those interested.

User avatar
DoveBodyWash
Posts: 3087
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby DoveBodyWash » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:31 pm

HeroGothamDeserves wrote:I could post info from my experiences with Greenfield, Norwood, Konig, and Flagg (as well as Drobak and Inazu but from what I understand those two profs aren't up at bat this semester) for those interested.

anything that you guys can get regarding Flagg is sacred

User avatar
njdevils2626
Posts: 384
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:53 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby njdevils2626 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:37 pm

HeroGothamDeserves wrote:I could post info from my experiences with Greenfield, Norwood, Konig, and Flagg (as well as Drobak and Inazu but from what I understand those two profs aren't up at bat this semester) for those interested.


I'd appreciate any insight regarding Norwood

User avatar
chuckbass
Posts: 9957
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:29 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby chuckbass » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:46 pm

Fiero85 wrote:I of course was bored all day and then busy (drinking) when these were released. But I did check my phone and SAW AN URGENT TEXT FROM SCOTTY was happy to see my first C of law school :)

P.S. useless powers are fun

User avatar
meatwad
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:17 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby meatwad » Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:25 pm

Saw some of what Cuse said (thank you!!) but any additional advice on prof's/classes for section E would be fantastic.

Crim Law -- Osgood
Torts -- Norwood
Contracts -- DeGeest




Return to “Law School Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Automotomayor, Google [Bot], JazzyMac and 6 guests