WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.

How old are you?

21-
11
12%
22-23
27
29%
24-26
38
40%
27-30
14
15%
30+
4
4%
 
Total votes: 94

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chuckbass
Posts: 9957
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:29 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby chuckbass » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:46 pm

Austinbound wrote:
Fiero85 wrote:
JustHawkin wrote:I think we should have a WUStL combine, similar to the NFLs, in order to determine scholarships.


^Down for this

As long as it is NFL style (strength and speed), and not like, smartness :)



Down for this.

Someone email Anna :p

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DoveBodyWash
Posts: 3087
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby DoveBodyWash » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:47 pm

Otunga wrote:Would you say the number of grads getting biglaw will stay more or less the same?


This is a complicated question. I think that we'll have better job placement, both in raw numbers and in percentage. But the improvements may or may not be driven by BigLaw. I do think our BigLaw placement as a percentage will improve, but it's not going to be the primary engine of our job placement.

I'll give a break down of the factors:

1. Self-selection. Not everyone wants BigLaw. Keep in mind that a huge reason why grads (not just our grads) flock to BigLaw in the first place is to pay off their debts. WUSTL grads in general (especially my class) are less indebted than some of our peers. So there's less urgency. I can't speak for the 2Ls and 3Ls, but I know a good number of my classmates were never interested in BigLaw to begin with. Many of them are pursuing PI work or hope to join smaller firms. On my flight to Boston I was sitting next to a 3L who actually turned down an offer she received after her 2L SA because she didn't want corporate work and is now interviewing for PI positions.

2. Geography. Not only is WUSTL distant from the major BigLaw markets, but our students generally hail from the midwest. So they want to stay here. There aren't many true BigLaw firms in the Midwest, almost all of the true BigLaw firms are concentrated in the coastal markets with the exception of Chicago. Many of the firms that we consider BigLaw in the midwest aren't even included in NLJ 250 because they're much smaller.

3. Smaller class size. BigLaw hiring is based on your relative position to your peers. But it's not sufficient. Grades will get you the screeners, but after that it's about personality. I have classmates who are top 5% and got no callbacks from 1L OCI and conversely I have classmates who are top 33% and got several callbacks. I got callbacks that higher ranked students didn't, and lower ranked students got callbacks that I didn't. So there are variables other than grades. But as our class sizes shrink, the number of kids who are top X% will also shrink. Top 10% of 300 is 30 students whereas top 10% of my class is only 18. So when firms visit our campus for OCI, or when we go to them for Off-Campus Interviewing, they will go deeper into the class when awarding screener interviews. I know it's counter-intuitive because why wouldn't they just interview the 18 kids in the top 10%? Well ultimately firms want to interview enough candidates to make it worth their while. Remember that they also have an interest in recruiting the best talent. So lets say a firm's grade cutoff is top 20%. For a 300 person class, there'd be enough students in the top 10% (30 students) to fill all their slots. But for a smaller class, they'll go deeper into the class--until they hit top 20%.

And again, after our students get the screener, it's on them to interview well etc...

4. Debt. This is part of self-selection but I felt that it warranted it's own category. Debt drives students to BigLaw, but it also plays a role in determining the KIND of BigLaw that we choose. I'll use myself as an example. I won't have much debt coming out of law school. So I have a choice of choosing between the true BigLaw firms and smaller MidLaw firms that pay the same or similar salary. The MidLaw firms will offer better hours, better partnership prospects, but they'll pay less over the course of my career. If I had a ton of debt, I'd be forced to go to the BigLaw shop. But since I have a choice, I could opt for the MidLaw shop that may not be included in the NLJ 250 because it's just a smaller operation.


Ultimately, the NLJ 250 data is useful. But it's not the complete picture. There are other variables in play that you should consider in light of your debt and career goals.

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Fiero85
Posts: 1910
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:38 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby Fiero85 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:58 pm

cusenation wrote:
Otunga wrote:Would you say the number of grads getting biglaw will stay more or less the same?


This is a complicated question. I think that we'll have better job placement, both in raw numbers and in percentage. But the improvements may or may not be driven by BigLaw. I do think our BigLaw placement as a percentage will improve, but it's not going to be the primary engine of our job placement.

I'll give a break down of the factors:

1. Self-selection. Not everyone wants BigLaw. Keep in mind that a huge reason why grads (not just our grads) flock to BigLaw in the first place is to pay off their debts. WUSTL grads in general (especially my class) are less indebted than some of our peers. So there's less urgency. I can't speak for the 2Ls and 3Ls, but I know a good number of my classmates were never interested in BigLaw to begin with. Many of them are pursuing PI work or hope to join smaller firms. On my flight to Boston I was sitting next to a 3L who actually turned down an offer she received after her 2L SA because she didn't want corporate work and is now interviewing for PI positions.

2. Geography. Not only is WUSTL distant from the major BigLaw markets, but our students generally hail from the midwest. So they want to stay here. There aren't many true BigLaw firms in the Midwest, almost all of the true BigLaw firms are concentrated in the coastal markets with the exception of Chicago. Many of the firms that we consider BigLaw in the midwest aren't even included in NLJ 250 because they're much smaller.

3. Smaller class size. BigLaw hiring is based on your relative position to your peers. But it's not sufficient. Grades will get you the screeners, but after that it's about personality. I have classmates who are top 5% and got no callbacks from 1L OCI and conversely I have classmates who are top 33% and got several callbacks. I got callbacks that higher ranked students didn't, and lower ranked students got callbacks that I didn't. So there are variables other than grades. But as our class sizes shrink, the number of kids who are top X% will also shrink. Top 10% of 300 is 30 students whereas top 10% of my class is only 18. So when firms visit our campus for OCI, or when we go to them for Off-Campus Interviewing, they will go deeper into the class when awarding screener interviews. I know it's counter-intuitive because why wouldn't they just interview the 18 kids in the top 10%? Well ultimately firms want to interview enough candidates to make it worth their while. Remember that they also have an interest in recruiting the best talent. So lets say a firm's grade cutoff is top 20%. For a 300 person class, there'd be enough students in the top 10% (30 students) to fill all their slots. But for a smaller class, they'll go deeper into the class--until they hit top 20%.

And again, after our students get the screener, it's on them to interview well etc...

4. Debt. This is part of self-selection but I felt that it warranted it's own category. Debt drives students to BigLaw, but it also plays a role in determining the KIND of BigLaw that we choose. I'll use myself as an example. I won't have much debt coming out of law school. So I have a choice of choosing between the true BigLaw firms and smaller MidLaw firms that pay the same or similar salary. The MidLaw firms will offer better hours, better partnership prospects, but they'll pay less over the course of my career. If I had a ton of debt, I'd be forced to go to the BigLaw shop. But since I have a choice, I could opt for the MidLaw shop that may not be included in the NLJ 250 because it's just a smaller operation.


Ultimately, the NLJ 250 data is useful. But it's not the complete picture. There are other variables in play that you should consider in light of your debt and career goals.


Thanks again for the employment and other updates. Very helpful!

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lhanvt13
Posts: 2380
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby lhanvt13 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:59 pm

@Cuse: So I hear WUSTL has a tobacco free campus. How do law students handle this?

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JustHawkin
Posts: 1753
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:54 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby JustHawkin » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:00 pm

Austinbound wrote:
Fiero85 wrote:
JustHawkin wrote:I think we should have a WUStL combine, similar to the NFLs, in order to determine scholarships.


^Down for this

As long as it is NFL style (strength and speed), and not like, smartness :)



Down for this.

They would easily recind your acceptance... I heard Vince Young needs a workout partner though

:lol:

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DoveBodyWash
Posts: 3087
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby DoveBodyWash » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:01 pm

lhanvt13 wrote:@Cuse: So I hear WUSTL has a tobacco free campus. How do law students handle this?

They just smoke an appropriate distance from the buildings lol

I'm guessing that the smokers gradually switch to nicotine patches or something as we approach finals so that they're not irritable/twitching during 3-hour exams

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John Everyman
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:20 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby John Everyman » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:02 pm

.
Last edited by John Everyman on Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AceDeuces
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:14 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby AceDeuces » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:08 pm

lhanvt13 wrote:@Cuse: So I hear WUSTL has a tobacco free campus. How do law students handle this?



If it's anything like Michigan's "Tobacco Free Campus" it's not much more than a marketing stunt. Precisely 0 people who smoked quit because of the ban and precisely 0 people actually walked off campus to smoke. Maybe during the first month of the ban they did but after that no one cared, and people smoked on campus as they did before. I'm not suggesting this, nor am I condoning the behavior, but as long as you are not bothering other people you should be fine. Of course if someone mentions to you that it is a smoke free campus and asks you to stop then you should be respectful and do so, which is all I think the ban is meant to do in the first place.

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bound
Posts: 1083
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:49 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby bound » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:14 pm

JustHawkin wrote:
Austinbound wrote:
Fiero85 wrote:
JustHawkin wrote:I think we should have a WUStL combine, similar to the NFLs, in order to determine scholarships.


^Down for this

As long as it is NFL style (strength and speed), and not like, smartness :)



Down for this.

They would easily recind your acceptance... I heard Vince Young needs a workout partner though

:lol:



He's booty chowder. I could take him!

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JustHawkin
Posts: 1753
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:54 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby JustHawkin » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:30 pm

Austinbound wrote:
He's booty chowder. I could take him!

Debatable. Unrelated: it's impossible to say "booty chowder" without a Boston accent. Hence, "Boodie Chowdaahh"

amirite Otunga?!

olivejuice831
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:54 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby olivejuice831 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:30 pm

Have a skype interview today....any tips tricks or advice?

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AceDeuces
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:14 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby AceDeuces » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:31 pm

The ballyhoo of this board is weighing far too heavily on my law school decision.

pauly_biegler
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 6:54 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby pauly_biegler » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:32 pm

olivejuice831 wrote:Have a skype interview today....any tips tricks or advice?



don't wear pants


in all seriousness just ask questions that peak your interest about the place and create a good dialogue about whatever they ask you. it will be very conversational and informative if you want it to be. Good luck!

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Attax
Posts: 3589
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:59 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby Attax » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:34 pm

olivejuice831 wrote:Have a skype interview today....any tips tricks or advice?


Don't do it naked.

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chuckbass
Posts: 9957
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:29 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby chuckbass » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:35 pm

pauly_biegler wrote:
olivejuice831 wrote:Have a skype interview today....any tips tricks or advice?



don't wear pants


in all seriousness just ask questions that peak your interest about the place and create a good dialogue about whatever they ask you. it will be very conversational and informative if you want it to be. Good luck!

Way to steal my answer...

palbatron
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:23 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby palbatron » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:35 pm

olivejuice831 wrote:Have a skype interview today....any tips tricks or advice?


Take control of the interview. Let them know why you want to be a lawyer. Do some homework on some clinics and other things that are interesting to you, and make sure to bring them up as questions. Other than that, it's a very comfortable interview, and I'm sure you will do fine as long as you are personable and show that you are interested.

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Attax
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby Attax » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:36 pm

Be sure to take a shower, you don't want them to think you are smelly.

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Ditka747
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:02 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby Ditka747 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:36 pm

palbatron wrote:
olivejuice831 wrote:Have a skype interview today....any tips tricks or advice?


Take control of the interview. Let them know why you want to be a lawyer. Do some homework on some clinics and other things that are interesting to you, and make sure to bring them up as questions. Other than that, it's a very comfortable interview, and I'm sure you will do fine as long as you are personable and show that you are interested.

User avatar
BlackCanary
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:39 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby BlackCanary » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:50 pm

olivejuice831 wrote:Have a skype interview today....any tips tricks or advice?


Get some color in your cheeks by dancing around to N'SYNC and Destiny's Child.

Or you know, something that relaxes you and makes you all smiley rather than nervous.

palbatron wrote:Take control of the interview. Let them know why you want to be a lawyer. Do some homework on some clinics and other things that are interesting to you, and make sure to bring them up as questions. Other than that, it's a very comfortable interview, and I'm sure you will do fine as long as you are personable and show that you are interested.


but really, just this (^).

Breathe, have fun with it, you'll be fine.

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cron1834
Posts: 1921
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:36 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby cron1834 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:13 pm

cusenation wrote:
Otunga wrote:Would you say the number of grads getting biglaw will stay more or less the same?


This is a complicated question. I think that we'll have better job placement, both in raw numbers and in percentage. But the improvements may or may not be driven by BigLaw. I do think our BigLaw placement as a percentage will improve, but it's not going to be the primary engine of our job placement.

I'll give a break down of the factors:

1. Self-selection. Not everyone wants BigLaw. Keep in mind that a huge reason why grads (not just our grads) flock to BigLaw in the first place is to pay off their debts. WUSTL grads in general (especially my class) are less indebted than some of our peers. So there's less urgency. I can't speak for the 2Ls and 3Ls, but I know a good number of my classmates were never interested in BigLaw to begin with. Many of them are pursuing PI work or hope to join smaller firms. On my flight to Boston I was sitting next to a 3L who actually turned down an offer she received after her 2L SA because she didn't want corporate work and is now interviewing for PI positions.

2. Geography. Not only is WUSTL distant from the major BigLaw markets, but our students generally hail from the midwest. So they want to stay here. There aren't many true BigLaw firms in the Midwest, almost all of the true BigLaw firms are concentrated in the coastal markets with the exception of Chicago. Many of the firms that we consider BigLaw in the midwest aren't even included in NLJ 250 because they're much smaller.

3. Smaller class size. BigLaw hiring is based on your relative position to your peers. But it's not sufficient. Grades will get you the screeners, but after that it's about personality. I have classmates who are top 5% and got no callbacks from 1L OCI and conversely I have classmates who are top 33% and got several callbacks. I got callbacks that higher ranked students didn't, and lower ranked students got callbacks that I didn't. So there are variables other than grades. But as our class sizes shrink, the number of kids who are top X% will also shrink. Top 10% of 300 is 30 students whereas top 10% of my class is only 18. So when firms visit our campus for OCI, or when we go to them for Off-Campus Interviewing, they will go deeper into the class when awarding screener interviews. I know it's counter-intuitive because why wouldn't they just interview the 18 kids in the top 10%? Well ultimately firms want to interview enough candidates to make it worth their while. Remember that they also have an interest in recruiting the best talent. So lets say a firm's grade cutoff is top 20%. For a 300 person class, there'd be enough students in the top 10% (30 students) to fill all their slots. But for a smaller class, they'll go deeper into the class--until they hit top 20%.

And again, after our students get the screener, it's on them to interview well etc...

4. Debt. This is part of self-selection but I felt that it warranted it's own category. Debt drives students to BigLaw, but it also plays a role in determining the KIND of BigLaw that we choose. I'll use myself as an example. I won't have much debt coming out of law school. So I have a choice of choosing between the true BigLaw firms and smaller MidLaw firms that pay the same or similar salary. The MidLaw firms will offer better hours, better partnership prospects, but they'll pay less over the course of my career. If I had a ton of debt, I'd be forced to go to the BigLaw shop. But since I have a choice, I could opt for the MidLaw shop that may not be included in the NLJ 250 because it's just a smaller operation.


Ultimately, the NLJ 250 data is useful. But it's not the complete picture. There are other variables in play that you should consider in light of your debt and career goals.


Thanks for this post.

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ellewoods179
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:01 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby ellewoods179 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:40 pm

Wish everyone looked like their avatar, so much easier to find a Garfield and Ryan gosling on campus then ask people if they are so and so from TLS. Love reading this forum, putting off checking my email to avoid a disappointment of possibly not getting in, I want to be a part of your incoming class sooo bad!

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Attax
Posts: 3589
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:59 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby Attax » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:44 pm

ellewoods179 wrote:Wish everyone looked like their avatar, so much easier to find a Garfield and Ryan gosling on campus then ask people if they are so and so from TLS. Love reading this forum, putting off checking my email to avoid a disappointment of possibly not getting in, I want to be a part of your incoming class sooo bad!


I do look just like garfield.

Or you can pm me a link to facebook and we can add you to the FB group for TLS'ers so you can easily know what we all look like!

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chuckbass
Posts: 9957
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:29 pm

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby chuckbass » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:48 pm

Attax wrote:
ellewoods179 wrote:Wish everyone looked like their avatar, so much easier to find a Garfield and Ryan gosling on campus then ask people if they are so and so from TLS. Love reading this forum, putting off checking my email to avoid a disappointment of possibly not getting in, I want to be a part of your incoming class sooo bad!


I do look just like garfield.

Or you can pm me a link to facebook and we can add you to the FB group for TLS'ers so you can easily know what we all look like!

I like to think I look like Ryan Gosling.

User avatar
JustHawkin
Posts: 1753
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:54 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby JustHawkin » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:49 pm

scottidsntknow wrote:
Attax wrote:
ellewoods179 wrote:Wish everyone looked like their avatar, so much easier to find a Garfield and Ryan gosling on campus then ask people if they are so and so from TLS. Love reading this forum, putting off checking my email to avoid a disappointment of possibly not getting in, I want to be a part of your incoming class sooo bad!


I do look just like garfield.

Or you can pm me a link to facebook and we can add you to the FB group for TLS'ers so you can easily know what we all look like!

I like to think I look like Ryan Gosling.

What if we do look like our 'tar IRL?!

User avatar
peachesthedoge
Posts: 350
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:57 am

Re: WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle)

Postby peachesthedoge » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:49 pm

JustHawkin wrote:
scottidsntknow wrote:
Attax wrote:
ellewoods179 wrote:Wish everyone looked like their avatar, so much easier to find a Garfield and Ryan gosling on campus then ask people if they are so and so from TLS. Love reading this forum, putting off checking my email to avoid a disappointment of possibly not getting in, I want to be a part of your incoming class sooo bad!


I do look just like garfield.

Or you can pm me a link to facebook and we can add you to the FB group for TLS'ers so you can easily know what we all look like!

I like to think I look like Ryan Gosling.

What if we do look like our 'tar IRL?!


^seconded *cries into corner*




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