American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

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amohiuddin
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby amohiuddin » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:02 pm

placed on the waitlist. hate my life

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haus
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby haus » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:02 pm

Nova wrote:Don't let USWNR be any part of your calculations.

On the flip side of this equation, I wonder how much the school cares about such things. Seeing that Spivey is reporting the top 50, and American seems not to be there this time around. In the greater scheme of things, it does not matter, but perception is a big thing for many people.

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haus
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby haus » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:04 pm

amohiuddin wrote:placed on the waitlist. hate my life

Hang in there. The waitlist is not a rejection, and I suspect that cycle is far from over.

Good luck,

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PattyCake
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby PattyCake » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:10 pm

I do not understand what is happening with this application. I have been watching applicants get accepted with numbers at or below mine for the last 4 months, and I still have not received a decision. I even called to make sure I hadn't missed an email saying my application was missing something - nope, it's good. I updated my application with my new LSAT score (went from 50th>x>25th to >75th) and I expected a relatively quick turnaround. Nada. At this rate I will be completely unsurprised to get an email admitting me sometime around June 2018 - I wonder how much having a JD already in hand would help with scholarship negotiations...

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haus
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby haus » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:16 pm

PC,

Hang in there, I suspect that American is seeing a lot of flux. For students who really want to go here that will likely be good for their chance at admissions, but from the point of view of the adcoms, it is likely a tough cycle. Hang in there, I am sure good things will be coming your way.

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kellohitty
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby kellohitty » Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:08 pm

Still under review since 11/25...come on now American.

NoDayButToday
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby NoDayButToday » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:11 am

.
Last edited by NoDayButToday on Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

amja107
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby amja107 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:53 am

NoDayButToday wrote:Whoa.

49 -> 56 -> 72.

American, what is going on?

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... ngs/page+3

I guess this makes me feel less bad about my WL...? But it's sad in a way. The school has awesome clinics and great reputation for international law.

Good luck to everyone still waiting, but idk about this school anymore. Hope they can turn it back around.



I know that we should look at LST and other things when deciding....but 16 spots. wow.

vthokies88
Posts: 45
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby vthokies88 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:57 am

Whoa.

49 -> 56 -> 72.

American, what is going on?

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... ngs/page+3

I guess this makes me feel less bad about my WL...? But it's sad in a way. The school has awesome clinics and great reputation for international law.

Good luck to everyone still waiting, but idk about this school anymore. Hope they can turn it back around.


I'm a current part-time 2L at WCL, and this sucks. I'm on Law Review and top 10% of my class, and I'm now concerned about getting a job. Don't expect this school to turn it back around. But if you want to know why our ranking went down, it's because USNWR increased the weight of GPAs and LSATs, and American accepts everyone and their sister. The vast majority of the recent incoming classes are an embarrassment. I would have been well into the top 25% of applicants if I applied today with the same statistics. AU needs to reduce its class sizes and cut the "human rights" and "diversity" crap. Word of advice for those of you who are considering AU - find another career or another school. You will probably still be able to get any job you want if you are top 10%, but if you're in the bottom 60% (i.e., the majority of the students), you are going to be in massive debt with nothing to show for it (assuming you want to be a lawyer). But let me be clear - this has NOTHING to do with our professors and our academics. Almost all of our professors are very accomplished Harvard Law grads - the problem lies with admissions. AU accepts students because it knows it can lawfully steal money to pay an executive and administrative staff who should all be in prison. If you roll the dice at AU, you better be ready to work hard...

timcruz2014
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby timcruz2014 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:06 am

vthokies88 wrote:
Whoa.

49 -> 56 -> 72.

American, what is going on?

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... ngs/page+3

I guess this makes me feel less bad about my WL...? But it's sad in a way. The school has awesome clinics and great reputation for international law.

Good luck to everyone still waiting, but idk about this school anymore. Hope they can turn it back around.


I'm a current part-time 2L at WCL, and this sucks. I'm on Law Review and top 10% of my class, and I'm now concerned about getting a job. Don't expect this school to turn it back around. But if you want to know why our ranking went down, it's because USNWR increased the weight of GPAs and LSATs, and American accepts everyone and their sister. The vast majority of the recent incoming classes are an embarrassment. I would have been well into the top 25% of applicants if I applied today with the same statistics. AU needs to reduce its class sizes and cut the "human rights" and "diversity" crap. Word of advice for those of you who are considering AU - find another career or another school. You will probably still be able to get any job you want if you are top 10%, but if you're in the bottom 60% (i.e., the majority of the students), you are going to be in massive debt with nothing to show for it (assuming you want to be a lawyer). But let me be clear - this has NOTHING to do with our professors and our academics. Almost all of our professors are very accomplished Harvard Law grads - the problem lies with admissions. AU accepts students because it knows it can lawfully steal money to pay an executive and administrative staff who should all be in prison. If you roll the dice at AU, you better be ready to work hard...




Wow this is intense. As of right now, outside of wait lists, It's between American and Cardozo with Michigan State on the outskirts due to financial aid. I was really looking forward to AU if my wait list at other higher ranked universities didn't go through. :(

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pedestrian
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby pedestrian » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:21 am

amja107 wrote:
NoDayButToday wrote:Whoa.

49 -> 56 -> 72.

American, what is going on?

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... ngs/page+3

I guess this makes me feel less bad about my WL...? But it's sad in a way. The school has awesome clinics and great reputation for international law.

Good luck to everyone still waiting, but idk about this school anymore. Hope they can turn it back around.



I know that we should look at LST and other things when deciding....but 16 spots. wow.


And in this case LST is pointing in the same direction. #172 for employment outcomes.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=other

mec246
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby mec246 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:47 am

This was sent to the AUWCL community re: the drop in ranking:

Dear AUWCL Community,
American University Washington College of Law (AUWCL) provides a superb educational experience to its students, produces first-rate scholarship, and engages the community, nation, and world through specialized programs that emphasize the values of access to justice at home and abroad. Our law school was founded in 1896 by two pioneering women whose powerful message of opportunity is a source of continuous inspiration to the community and the foundation of our unwavering rejection of all sources of discrimination and injustice. These solid and vibrant values will continue to serve as a cornerstone of our institutional commitment to the rule of law and access to legal education and justice itself.
Our law school has long prioritized diversity, need-based scholarships, innovative programs, service to those in need, and well-rounded admissions criteria. These are among the key factors that make American University Washington College of Law an institution of opportunity that is well-equipped to respond to changes in legal education and to serve the future need of its students, the legal profession, and the nation. Some commercial rankings like those released today by U.S. News and World Report do not fully embrace or even recognize these core values.
We are not pleased with our decline from 56 to 72 in the U.S. News general ranking of U.S. law schools, but the educational policies of our institution should not be compromised by a commercial ranking. The volatility, inconsistency, and unreliability of this ranking is well-known within and outside of legal education. In fact, changes in the rankings criteria year to year have resulted in extreme movements up and down, affecting schools whose relative quality remains unchanged. The same publication provides a diversity index that is not factored into their law school ranking, despite the central importance of diversity on the depth and quality of a legal education in particular. AUWCL ranks near the top of this index as one of the most diverse law schools in the country, yet our U.S. News rank fails to take into account, in any form whatsoever, this important and valuable distinction.
The same U.S. News survey consistently recognizes AUWCL’s leadership in specialized programs along with schools like Harvard, NYU, UC-Berkeley, and Georgetown. We are 3rd in clinical education (behind only Georgetown and NYU), 5th in international law (behind only NYU, Columbia, Georgetown, and Harvard) and 7th in intellectual property (behind schools such as Stanford, NYU, and UC-Berkeley). None of these specialty rankings are factored into the general ranking.
Other rankings also recognize the superb value of the educational experience provided by AUWCL:
• QS World University Rankings: AUWCL was named a Top 100 University for Law in the world, placing in the top 20 U.S. law schools on the list.
• The National Jurist: AUWCL was named one of the top 25 Best Law Schools for Public Interest Law.
• Hispanic Business Magazine: AUWCL was recognized as the #1 Law School for Hispanic Diversity.
• Business Insider: AUWCL is ranked #23 on their list of the 50 Best Law Schools in America.
• National Law Journal: AUWCL placed 25th on their ranking of schools whose alumni base had the most associates promoted to partner at the top 250 law firms.
The quality of our students and graduates is exceptional. We do not believe in compromising our admissions criteria merely to adapt to particular commercial rankings. To do so would mean denying scholarship awards to highly qualified candidates in great need of financial assistance and dramatically reducing diversity as a key component of our admissions. Our fall 2013 incoming class was comprised of 40% minority students, and more than 50% of our scholarships for the class were based on financial need.
Central to our values is our dedication to the success of our students and graduates. Recent statistical gains in our graduates’ rate of employment, even as narrowly defined by U.S. News, do not take fully into account those graduates’ success in seizing other opportunities in Washington, D.C., and beyond: jobs in the business sector, law-related professional jobs in government and policy, further graduate study, and fellowships.
We continue to make every effort to help our graduates find quality post-graduate positions to support their career goals. This year alone the law school has:
• Seen unparalleled faculty involvement in our students’ career development. Every law professor is participating in one or more of 11 faculty practice groups whose purpose is to connect students to practitioners in each of those practice areas and to mentor them in the job search process;
• Enhanced programs for first-year students, stressing the importance of focusing early on career development; and
• Allocated additional resources for employer outreach and increased the number of alumni participating in our mentorship programs.
We will continue to focus on our strengths and expand into new areas, including the myriad experiential learning opportunities through our renowned clinics, externships, trial advocacy program, and more. Our leading programs in international law, law and government, criminal law, women and the law, international commercial arbitration, human rights, intellectual property, business law, and environmental law, to mention only some, will continue to provide intellectual leadership and opportunity for our students. Our curriculum is both broad and deep, and the sheer number of elective courses offered here each year is among the largest in the country.
AUWCL’s unique environment of opportunity, diversity, and specialized knowledge puts students and values first. We make no apologies for this distinction and, to the contrary, take great pride in it. We look forward to continuing to reflect those values as we move to the new Tenley Campus in fall 2015—a state-of-the-art facility one block from the Metro that will expand possibilities to continue to attract bright, diverse students and connect those students even more to the professional opportunities found in Washington, DC. The move to Tenley Campus will mark a new chapter in our school’s unwavering commitment to promoting the rule of law, opportunity, and access to justice, through high quality and inclusive legal education.

Sincerely,

Claudio Grossman,
Dean

auwcl123
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby auwcl123 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:54 am

The thing about them dropping 16 spots is that people have been saying it was going to happen for quite a while now AND every indication points to the distinct possibility that they will only continue to drop in rankings...

vthokies88
Posts: 45
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby vthokies88 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:09 am

timcruz2014 wrote:
vthokies88 wrote:
Whoa.

49 -> 56 -> 72.

American, what is going on?

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... ngs/page+3

I guess this makes me feel less bad about my WL...? But it's sad in a way. The school has awesome clinics and great reputation for international law.

Good luck to everyone still waiting, but idk about this school anymore. Hope they can turn it back around.


I'm a current part-time 2L at WCL, and this sucks. I'm on Law Review and top 10% of my class, and I'm now concerned about getting a job. Don't expect this school to turn it back around. But if you want to know why our ranking went down, it's because USNWR increased the weight of GPAs and LSATs, and American accepts everyone and their sister. The vast majority of the recent incoming classes are an embarrassment. I would have been well into the top 25% of applicants if I applied today with the same statistics. AU needs to reduce its class sizes and cut the "human rights" and "diversity" crap. Word of advice for those of you who are considering AU - find another career or another school. You will probably still be able to get any job you want if you are top 10%, but if you're in the bottom 60% (i.e., the majority of the students), you are going to be in massive debt with nothing to show for it (assuming you want to be a lawyer). But let me be clear - this has NOTHING to do with our professors and our academics. Almost all of our professors are very accomplished Harvard Law grads - the problem lies with admissions. AU accepts students because it knows it can lawfully steal money to pay an executive and administrative staff who should all be in prison. If you roll the dice at AU, you better be ready to work hard...




Wow this is intense. As of right now, outside of wait lists, It's between American and Cardozo with Michigan State on the outskirts due to financial aid. I was really looking forward to AU if my wait list at other higher ranked universities didn't go through. :(



If you were well above the median for GPAs and LSAT scores, then don't automatically write AU off. A lot of students at AU are lazy and don't read or don't work hard. The top 20% of the incoming classes will still be very smart and will make fantastic lawyers, even if they don't all go to a big law firm. AU can still lead to excellent career prospects, and almost all of the same law firms that have been doing OCI at AU for the last 15 years (including high profile firms like Arnold and Porter, Skadden, K&L Gates, McKenna Long, Arent Fox, Venable, etc.) will continue to recruit from AU. The new ranking just means AU is accepting a lower caliber of students, and it will get much much harder for students outside of the top 20%. Again, this all comes down to AU being money hungry and being so poor administratively that it can't figure out how to exist with a smaller student body. A lot of people say the rankings are stupid, and to some extent they are, but they're not so stupid that #72 is meaningless. It will hurt AU's reputation, and people will start to consider it the new Catholic.

And don't forget - if you go to AU and do well, you can always transfer to GW or GTown (a lot of students do--I didn't because I didn't want to lose Law Review and my class rank). GW has been taking more transfer students and fewer 1Ls to game the rankings. Also, don't forget AU's exorbitant price tag--you will have to pay it off some day. AU's declining reputation won't do anything for you--you'll have to do it for yourself.

auwcl123
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:34 am

Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby auwcl123 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:23 pm

mec246 wrote:Dear AUWCL Community,
American University Washington College of Law (AUWCL) provides a superb educational experience to its students, produces first-rate scholarship, and engages the community, nation, and world through specialized programs that emphasize the values of access to justice at home and abroad. Our law school was founded in 1896 by two pioneering women whose powerful message of opportunity is a source of continuous inspiration to the community and the foundation of our unwavering rejection of all sources of discrimination and injustice. These solid and vibrant values will continue to serve as a cornerstone of our institutional commitment to the rule of law and access to legal education and justice itself.
Our law school has long prioritized diversity, need-based scholarships, innovative programs, service to those in need, and well-rounded admissions criteria. These are among the key factors that make American University Washington College of Law an institution of opportunity that is well-equipped to respond to changes in legal education and to serve the future need of its students, the legal profession, and the nation. Some commercial rankings like those released today by U.S. News and World Report do not fully embrace or even recognize these core values.
We are not pleased with our decline from 56 to 72 in the U.S. News general ranking of U.S. law schools, but the educational policies of our institution should not be compromised by a commercial ranking. The volatility, inconsistency, and unreliability of this ranking is well-known within and outside of legal education. In fact, changes in the rankings criteria year to year have resulted in extreme movements up and down, affecting schools whose relative quality remains unchanged. The same publication provides a diversity index that is not factored into their law school ranking, despite the central importance of diversity on the depth and quality of a legal education in particular. AUWCL ranks near the top of this index as one of the most diverse law schools in the country, yet our U.S. News rank fails to take into account, in any form whatsoever, this important and valuable distinction.
The same U.S. News survey consistently recognizes AUWCL’s leadership in specialized programs along with schools like Harvard, NYU, UC-Berkeley, and Georgetown. We are 3rd in clinical education (behind only Georgetown and NYU), 5th in international law (behind only NYU, Columbia, Georgetown, and Harvard) and 7th in intellectual property (behind schools such as Stanford, NYU, and UC-Berkeley). None of these specialty rankings are factored into the general ranking.
Other rankings also recognize the superb value of the educational experience provided by AUWCL:
• QS World University Rankings: AUWCL was named a Top 100 University for Law in the world, placing in the top 20 U.S. law schools on the list.
• The National Jurist: AUWCL was named one of the top 25 Best Law Schools for Public Interest Law.
• Hispanic Business Magazine: AUWCL was recognized as the #1 Law School for Hispanic Diversity.
• Business Insider: AUWCL is ranked #23 on their list of the 50 Best Law Schools in America.
• National Law Journal: AUWCL placed 25th on their ranking of schools whose alumni base had the most associates promoted to partner at the top 250 law firms.
The quality of our students and graduates is exceptional. We do not believe in compromising our admissions criteria merely to adapt to particular commercial rankings. To do so would mean denying scholarship awards to highly qualified candidates in great need of financial assistance and dramatically reducing diversity as a key component of our admissions. Our fall 2013 incoming class was comprised of 40% minority students, and more than 50% of our scholarships for the class were based on financial need.
Central to our values is our dedication to the success of our students and graduates. Recent statistical gains in our graduates’ rate of employment, even as narrowly defined by U.S. News, do not take fully into account those graduates’ success in seizing other opportunities in Washington, D.C., and beyond: jobs in the business sector, law-related professional jobs in government and policy, further graduate study, and fellowships.
We continue to make every effort to help our graduates find quality post-graduate positions to support their career goals. This year alone the law school has:
• Seen unparalleled faculty involvement in our students’ career development. Every law professor is participating in one or more of 11 faculty practice groups whose purpose is to connect students to practitioners in each of those practice areas and to mentor them in the job search process;
• Enhanced programs for first-year students, stressing the importance of focusing early on career development; and
• Allocated additional resources for employer outreach and increased the number of alumni participating in our mentorship programs.
We will continue to focus on our strengths and expand into new areas, including the myriad experiential learning opportunities through our renowned clinics, externships, trial advocacy program, and more. Our leading programs in international law, law and government, criminal law, women and the law, international commercial arbitration, human rights, intellectual property, business law, and environmental law, to mention only some, will continue to provide intellectual leadership and opportunity for our students. Our curriculum is both broad and deep, and the sheer number of elective courses offered here each year is among the largest in the country.
AUWCL’s unique environment of opportunity, diversity, and specialized knowledge puts students and values first. We make no apologies for this distinction and, to the contrary, take great pride in it. We look forward to continuing to reflect those values as we move to the new Tenley Campus in fall 2015—a state-of-the-art facility one block from the Metro that will expand possibilities to continue to attract bright, diverse students and connect those students even more to the professional opportunities found in Washington, DC. The move to Tenley Campus will mark a new chapter in our school’s unwavering commitment to promoting the rule of law, opportunity, and access to justice, through high quality and inclusive legal education.

Sincerely,

Claudio Grossman,
Dean


While American makes some good and valid points in the email message, I think the fact that they had to send it out speaks for itself. Morale has to be incredibly low there this morning. Anyone else have any thoughts?

cronous
Posts: 33
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby cronous » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:41 pm

I find Grossman's e-mail laughable at best. He first starts out condemning commercial rankings as being volatile, inconsistent, and unreliable and then proceeds of rattle of a number of rankings from various sources. He says that " We do not believe in compromising our admissions criteria merely to adapt to particular commercial rankings" even though American has significantly lowered LSAT and GPA standards to maintain a large student body.


American is a joke and is frankly circling the drain. It has slashed admission standards over the years to maintain a large student body which has resulted in a significant drop in rankings thereby ensuring that American will again be forced to slash its admission standards to bring enough warm bodies (thus continuing this vicious cycle). Add in skyrocketing tuition (about 50K a year that will go up every year) and the fact that AU is located in one the most expensive locations in the DC metro area (Northwest DC) and you have probably one of the worst law schools in the country.

vthokies88
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:56 pm

Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby vthokies88 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:57 pm

cronous wrote:I find Grossman's e-mail laughable at best. He first starts out condemning commercial rankings as being volatile, inconsistent, and unreliable and then proceeds of rattle of a number of rankings from various sources. He says that " We do not believe in compromising our admissions criteria merely to adapt to particular commercial rankings" even though American has significantly lowered LSAT and GPA standards to maintain a large student body.


American is a joke and is frankly circling the drain. It has slashed admission standards over the years to maintain a large student body which has resulted in a significant drop in rankings thereby ensuring that American will again be forced to slash its admission standards to bring enough warm bodies (thus continuing this vicious cycle). Add in skyrocketing tuition (about 50K a year that will go up every year) and the fact that AU is located in one the most expensive locations in the DC metro area (Northwest DC) and you have probably one of the worst law schools in the country.



I agree with much of what you said, but your statement that AU is "probably one of the worst law schools in the country" is inaccurate. We have fantastic professors and many excellent academic programs. The fact of the matter is, kids at Georgetown don't learn any special secrets about Contracts, Torts, Civil Procedure, etc.--they all teach the same stuff. Unlike a lot of the higher ranked schools, we have professors who have actually held legal jobs, not just people who write law review articles. Many of our professors were former partners at large law firms like A&P and WilmerHale or worked in highly respected government office.

The accurate statement is that AU is one of the worst-managed law schools and has begun accepting students who I wouldn't hire to defend me on a DUI much less on a large corporate transaction. The single thing that plagues our school is the size of our student body. If we reduced our school size to GMU, you think we would be ranked #72? Absolutely not.... And a lot of other schools are located in the same expensive area (e.g., GW). Schools like GW just know how to play the rankings game better than AU. 80% of GW grads don't actually have legit jobs at graduation...GW employs about 25% of its graduates to boost its rankings. GW also reduced its 1L class size and started taking a crap ton of transfers so that it would keep its numbers up.

Smer45
Posts: 53
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby Smer45 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:59 pm

Anyone think the news rankings will affect scholarship $??

Fretter31
Posts: 21
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby Fretter31 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:13 pm

This is sad. I know a lot of good people who are likely hurting up in Tenleytown today. I transferred from AU to GWU last year (as did many of my colleagues) because we saw this coming. We knew that, in spite of the math and logic of the situation and the employment market, AU would continue to lower their admissions standards further to keep the revenue coming. The lip service about diversity, specialty rankings, etc. is a ruse. For the record, I received a $12,000 "grant" to go to AU. It was not renewed after my 1L year. After I transferred, I had to pay it ALL BACK. Think about why the school would insert such a clause....Think about why the school would continue to lower their admission standards...Think about why the school is building a huge facility with tuition money instead of downsizing their operations and putting money towards a better career center and the students who already go there....Think about whether AU is a good choice....

auwcl123
Posts: 17
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Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby auwcl123 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:20 pm

Fretter31 wrote:This is sad. I know a lot of good people who are likely hurting up in Tenleytown today. I transferred from AU to GWU last year (as did many of my colleagues) because we saw this coming. We knew that, in spite of the math and logic of the situation and the employment market, AU would continue to lower their admissions standards further to keep the revenue coming. The lip service about diversity, specialty rankings, etc. is a ruse. For the record, I received a $12,000 "grant" to go to AU. It was not renewed after my 1L year. After I transferred, I had to pay it ALL BACK. Think about why the school would insert such a clause....Think about why the school would continue to lower their admission standards...Think about why the school is building a huge facility with tuition money instead of downsizing their operations and putting money towards a better career center and the students who already go there....Think about whether AU is a good choice....


I was set on American until this morning. I have not put down my seat deposit yet, but I do have a substantial merit scholarship. That being said, GWU remains my first choice and I am currently on their wait list. I'm thinking as a worst case scenario, I do a year at American and then try to transfer to GWU. Thoughts?

Fretter31
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:14 pm

Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby Fretter31 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:28 pm

...
Last edited by Fretter31 on Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fretter31
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:14 pm

Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby Fretter31 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:30 pm

auwcl123 wrote:
Fretter31 wrote:This is sad. I know a lot of good people who are likely hurting up in Tenleytown today. I transferred from AU to GWU last year (as did many of my colleagues) because we saw this coming. We knew that, in spite of the math and logic of the situation and the employment market, AU would continue to lower their admissions standards further to keep the revenue coming. The lip service about diversity, specialty rankings, etc. is a ruse. For the record, I received a $12,000 "grant" to go to AU. It was not renewed after my 1L year. After I transferred, I had to pay it ALL BACK. Think about why the school would insert such a clause....Think about why the school would continue to lower their admission standards...Think about why the school is building a huge facility with tuition money instead of downsizing their operations and putting money towards a better career center and the students who already go there....Think about whether AU is a good choice....


I was set on American until this morning. I have not put down my seat deposit yet, but I do have a substantial merit scholarship. That being said, GWU remains my first choice and I am currently on their wait list. I'm thinking as a worst case scenario, I do a year at American and then try to transfer to GWU. Thoughts?



That's much easier said then done. While GWU has opened the transfer floodgates, YOU SHOULD NEVER GO TO A LOWER RANKED SCHOOL WITH THE INTENTION OF TRANSFERRING TO A HIGHER RANKED ONE. It's an age old rule, and it's just common-sense. I would also caution that merit scholarships at AU have a habit of disappearing after the first year. Unless the award states that it is for all 3 years (and, quite honestly, if it above $20K) I would think long and hard about going to AU. PM me or if you're in the DC Area I would be happy to meet with you at GWU. Think carefully about your options!

vthokies88
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:56 pm

Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby vthokies88 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:40 pm

Fretter31 wrote:
auwcl123 wrote:
Fretter31 wrote:This is sad. I know a lot of good people who are likely hurting up in Tenleytown today. I transferred from AU to GWU last year (as did many of my colleagues) because we saw this coming. We knew that, in spite of the math and logic of the situation and the employment market, AU would continue to lower their admissions standards further to keep the revenue coming. The lip service about diversity, specialty rankings, etc. is a ruse. For the record, I received a $12,000 "grant" to go to AU. It was not renewed after my 1L year. After I transferred, I had to pay it ALL BACK. Think about why the school would insert such a clause....Think about why the school would continue to lower their admission standards...Think about why the school is building a huge facility with tuition money instead of downsizing their operations and putting money towards a better career center and the students who already go there....Think about whether AU is a good choice....


I was set on American until this morning. I have not put down my seat deposit yet, but I do have a substantial merit scholarship. That being said, GWU remains my first choice and I am currently on their wait list. I'm thinking as a worst case scenario, I do a year at American and then try to transfer to GWU. Thoughts?



That's much easier said then done. While GWU has opened the transfer floodgates, YOU SHOULD NEVER GO TO A LOWER RANKED SCHOOL WITH THE INTENTION OF TRANSFERRING TO A HIGHER RANKED ONE. It's an age old rule, and it's just common-sense. I would also caution that merit scholarships at AU have a habit of disappearing after the first year. Unless the award states that it is for all 3 years (and, quite honestly, if it above $20K) I would think long and hard about going to AU. PM me or if you're in the DC Area I would be happy to meet with you at GWU. Think carefully about your options!


I agree with this 100000000%. But remember that if you transfer, your GPA does not transfer. There's also a .000005% chance of you getting onto Law Review at the new school. GW is a fantastic school, but no matter where you go, you will have to work hard. Top 10% and Law Review at AU will still get you BigLaw, if that's what you're after. At GW, it's (I think) about top 25%. And to be sure, I know people at AU who were in the top 20% and have BigLaw jobs lined up...it can happen, but you will have to do more work on your end and work connections.

And also remember that AU is a regional school. We might be ranked lower than Temple, but we will still do better with DC firms (like Wiley Rein--about 10% of that firm's lawyers are AU alums). If you choose AU, be prepared for a stressful law school career filled with anxst over your class rank...

cronous
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 9:49 am

Re: American University- WCL c/o 2017 Applicants

Postby cronous » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:43 pm

vthokies88 wrote:
I agree with much of what you said, but your statement that AU is "probably one of the worst law schools in the country" is inaccurate. We have fantastic professors and many excellent academic programs.


The statement that AU is "probably one of the worst law schools in the country" is quite accurate in the context of outcomes for most students (which is probably what the overwhelming majority of students are concerned about). FWIW I was a student at American for a year before (thankfully) transferring to another school. I can attest to the fact that most professors are well credentialed and the ones that I had were relatively good. However, the quality of the professors/academic program does not appear to significantly affect student outcomes.

AU's problems are frankly too many to list: a) the size of the college (as you have noted) is way too big (just under 500 each year) leading to intense competition for the jobs that are available (no wonder the 1st year employment numbers on LST are so bad), b) its tuition is sky high (50K), c) it is in a locale with one the highest COL in the country, d) it is a mediocre schools right smack in the middle of one of the most saturated and competitive legal markets in the country where students from all the big name schools from across the country come to play, e) it is stingy with scholarships, f) it has an absentee dean (Claudio Grossman) that seems mostly concerned with doing human rights seminars on the other side of the planet than actually running the law school (seriously what does this guy do for his salary?), there are many more....


vthokies88 wrote:The accurate statement is that AU is one of the worst-managed law schools and has begun accepting students who I wouldn't hire to defend me on a DUI much less on a large corporate transaction. The single thing that plagues our school is the size of our student body. If we reduced our school size to GMU, you think we would be ranked #72? Absolutely not.... And a lot of other schools are located in the same expensive area (e.g., GW).


They will never reduce the class size by any significant measure. AU's law school has to many monetary obligations to be able to survive bringing in fewer warm bodies. Heck they are building a brand new law school. The federal loan money has to come from some place.

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PourMeTea
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Postby PourMeTea » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:44 pm

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