Harvard Waitlist 2013 Forum

[TripTrip]

It's kind of when you see someone's pic and think "hmm.. I'd like to meet that person."

So you're saying I am to JS as Megan Fox is to me?

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

It's great to see some new voices speculating. Welcome to the circus.

I'll just add a comment about these WL JS1s. We're expecting about 350 people who get interviews not to be accepted. Presumably most folks who get interviewed are not directly rejected. We've only seen a few on TLS. For argument's sake we'll assume that it's 50 JS1--Rejection without the WL. That leaves 300 waitlisted people who will have JS1s and not be admitted.

In addition we're assuming that they accept about 150 from the waitlist. So the waitlist should have about 450 people with JS1s. If we take the total waitlist at 600, that gives us about 75% that will be, or will already have been, interviewed.

I have no idea if the chances are better with pre or post WL interviews. But they are clearly planning to interview a very high proportion of the waitlist.

Most likely they worked out at the beginning of the cycle how many interviews would be before the waitlist and how many afterwards. There is no indication that they are behind on their quota. But they do need to interview a ton of waitlisted folks.

So you're saying there's a chance?

(But really. 1 in 3 WL-> JS1, if true, is very encouraging news to my ears)

[wert3813]

Be gentle with me, it was my first time But really - there are people who care about the numbers and Harvard loses credibility if they come out and make bold (and specific) targets and can't hit them. That's all I'm gonna say, and I'm not trying to be a downer, I'm just trying to be realistic. Of course I'd love it if we all got in and if that turns out to be the case, I'll buy you a beer next year and we can laugh about it then. Cheers.

No this still makes no sense. "We initially thought we were going to interview 1200, but we felt the quality of the applicant pool merited only interviewing 1050 so that's the number we ended up with. We take a great deal of pride in being flexible and doing what will allow us to build the best class for Harvard so we are very proud that we did that." No credibility lost. None. Not an ounce. Nevermind the fact that they would never have to give that quote because nobody in a million years would every publicly ask them.

The ironic thing is your theory made me think of a more plausible theory. When they decided to up the number of JS1s it was because they decided upfront they wanted to interview most of the WL. And that this whole time we thought JS1--JS2 odds were decreased from last year, but they were actually close to the same for all RD applicants.

[jakeymay]

Isn't it probably a good sign that JS and KB have been talking as if we would get responses within weeks instead of months?

Maybe they're going to reject wait listed people with JS1s in May, but it seems more likely that they're preparing to give out a bunch of acceptances.

Either way, we can do math with made-up numbers all we want. The only information from past cycles we can apply, for whatever it's worth, is that most wait listed people on TLS with JS1s were accepted.

[grillendacheese]

No this still makes no sense. "We initially thought we were going to interview 1200, but we felt the quality of the applicant pool merited only interviewing 1050 so that's the number we ended up with. We take a great deal of pride in being flexible and doing what will allow us to build the best class for Harvard so we are very proud that we did that." No credibility lost. None. Not an ounce. Nevermind the fact that they would never have to give that quote because nobody in a million years would every publicly ask them.

The ironic thing is your theory made me think of a more plausible theory. When they decided to up the number of JS1s it was because they decided upfront they wanted to interview most of the WL. And that this whole time we thought JS1--JS2 odds were decreased from last year, but they were actually close to the same for all RD applicants.

It seems like our theories aren't mutually exclusive. Regardless, something seems fishy about the way these post-WL JS1s are being handled. The fact that they started handing out the interviews just days after initial WLs - but had no interest in equally quick acceptances - seems to imply that they plan on doing a lot of these interviews. Like I said, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. It is in my interest for these interviews to be a positive thing, I'm just not entirely sold.

And btw, in a HLS info session I went to at the beginning of the cycle - someone did outright ask them how many interview they do - and they happily answered the question. I think they want to hit the number, maybe they could make the excuse you suggested and no one would blink twice. However, Harvard is big on maintaining appearances and Soban comes from the numbers based world of consulting - numbers matter to them.

[chickpea]

i think someone came up with a number before, but how many people do we think are on the waitlist? also, someone said that Harvard sometimes takes as many as 150 from the wait list? that number seems surprisingly high to me but i would be pretty pleased to find out that it's accurate.

let's hope for more JS1s soon

[toothbrush]

i think someone came up with a number before, but how many people do we think are on the waitlist? also, someone said that Harvard sometimes takes as many as 150 from the wait list? that number seems surprisingly high to me but i would be pretty pleased to find out that it's accurate.

let's hope for more JS1s soon

IIRC I've read that this WL is 1/7 of the total. So about 80 on the WL would mean (80 x 7 ) 560. 150 pulled off 560 seems about right in terms of % accepted (~35%).

However, Spivey says that schools WL ~ half applicants. I don't think that rings true for HLS but perhaps the pool is way deeper than TLS can see.

[chickpea]

Wow, 560 is a lot of people. I somehow find it odd that Harvard pulls more than 1/5 of their final class from the waitlist, but of course I'm not complaining.

[dawyzest1]

Wow, 560 is a lot of people. I somehow find it odd that Harvard pulls more than 1/5 of their final class from the waitlist, but of course I'm not complaining.

It's counter-intuitive for sure, but I believe it. A WL admit has a distinct advantage over a regular admit--they can be pretty darn sure you'll matriculate. Using the WL more actively allows them to hit their number precisely. If they tried to guesstimate it through regular admits exclusively there would be quite a bit of volatility year over year in the class size.

[chickpea]

Wow, 560 is a lot of people. I somehow find it odd that Harvard pulls more than 1/5 of their final class from the waitlist, but of course I'm not complaining.

It's counter-intuitive for sure, but I believe it. A WL admit has a distinct advantage over a regular admit--they can be pretty darn sure you'll matriculate. Using the WL more actively allows them to hit their number precisely. If they tried to guesstimate it through regular admits exclusively there would be quite a bit of volatility year over year in the class size.

Wow, that actually does make sense. Thanks for the info!

[testaker]

For those who recently sent Harvard an LOCI, how long did it take to receive a response from them confirming receipt? Thanks.

[chickpea]

For those who recently sent Harvard an LOCI, how long did it take to receive a response from them confirming receipt? Thanks.

i think it took them a day or two to get back to me.

[TripTrip]

Wow, 560 is a lot of people. I somehow find it odd that Harvard pulls more than 1/5 of their final class from the waitlist, but of course I'm not complaining.

It's counter-intuitive for sure, but I believe it. A WL admit has a distinct advantage over a regular admit--they can be pretty darn sure you'll matriculate. Using the WL more actively allows them to hit their number precisely. If they tried to guesstimate it through regular admits exclusively there would be quite a bit of volatility year over year in the class size.

Plus by using the waitlist they can more directly control their medians. That's why there's splitters, reverse splitters, and over-boths on the waitlist.

[toothbrush]

Wow, 560 is a lot of people. I somehow find it odd that Harvard pulls more than 1/5 of their final class from the waitlist, but of course I'm not complaining.

It's counter-intuitive for sure, but I believe it. A WL admit has a distinct advantage over a regular admit--they can be pretty darn sure you'll matriculate. Using the WL more actively allows them to hit their number precisely. If they tried to guesstimate it through regular admits exclusively there would be quite a bit of volatility year over year in the class size.

Plus by using the waitlist they can more directly control their medians. That's why there's splitters, reverse splitters, and over-boths on the waitlist.

They can also target what they need to fill their class. Ie URM, Females, k-jds (lul more like people with grad degrees) AND on top of that get them to pay sticker.

Looking at the WL js-1s it looks like HLS is following this strategy to a t

[jym_dawg]

Wow, 560 is a lot of people. I somehow find it odd that Harvard pulls more than 1/5 of their final class from the waitlist, but of course I'm not complaining.

It's counter-intuitive for sure, but I believe it. A WL admit has a distinct advantage over a regular admit--they can be pretty darn sure you'll matriculate. Using the WL more actively allows them to hit their number precisely. If they tried to guesstimate it through regular admits exclusively there would be quite a bit of volatility year over year in the class size.

Plus by using the waitlist they can more directly control their medians. That's why there's splitters, reverse splitters, and over-boths on the waitlist.

They can also target what they need to fill their class. Ie URM, Females, k-jds (lul more like people with grad degrees) AND on top of that get them to pay sticker.

Looking at the WL js-1s it looks like HLS is following this strategy to a t

I was about to say this. If JS1s indicate need then they are in dire need of URMs and over-75th GPAs

[txdude45]

They can also target what they need to fill their class. Ie URM, Females, k-jds (lul more like people with grad degrees) AND on top of that get them to pay sticker.

Looking at the WL js-1s it looks like HLS is following this strategy to a t

You realize you can be 4.33/180 and you'll still pay "sticker" at Harvard, right? No merit aid.

edit: sorry for the snark. I'm finishing my senior thesis and it's due tomorrow, lol.

[toothbrush]

They can also target what they need to fill their class. Ie URM, Females, k-jds (lul more like people with grad degrees) AND on top of that get them to pay sticker.

Looking at the WL js-1s it looks like HLS is following this strategy to a t

You realize you can be 4.33/180 and you'll still pay "sticker" at Harvard, right? No merit aid.

edit: sorry for the snark. I'm finishing my senior thesis and it's due tomorrow, lol.

I was speaking for WL's in general. I have no idea how HLS works with merit aid or anything of the sort - I just know I won't get any.

[Jaqen]

Harvard aid is 100% need-based so whether one is WLed or not has no bearing on $.

[TripTrip]

I was speaking for WL's in general. I have no idea how HLS works with merit aid or anything of the sort - I just know I won't get any.

Are you super rich? That's the only way you wouldn't get the same amount of aid as everyone else.

[txdude45]

I have no idea how HLS works with merit aid or anything of the sort - I just know I won't get any.

Unless you are rolling in cash, you'll at least get a little. Even if they just throw you a taste, I've never heard of a HYP person not getting more money when they asked for it, although that was undergrad, which may work much differently than law school.

[cslouisck]

Wow, 560 is a lot of people. I somehow find it odd that Harvard pulls more than 1/5 of their final class from the waitlist, but of course I'm not complaining.

It's counter-intuitive for sure, but I believe it. A WL admit has a distinct advantage over a regular admit--they can be pretty darn sure you'll matriculate. Using the WL more actively allows them to hit their number precisely. If they tried to guesstimate it through regular admits exclusively there would be quite a bit of volatility year over year in the class size.

Plus by using the waitlist they can more directly control their medians. That's why there's splitters, reverse splitters, and over-boths on the waitlist.

They can also target what they need to fill their class. Ie URM, Females, k-jds (lul more like people with grad degrees) AND on top of that get them to pay sticker.

Looking at the WL js-1s it looks like HLS is following this strategy to a t

As a white dude below both medians, I think I'll just keep whistling a happy tune and riding this train as far as it will take me.

[toothbrush]

I was speaking for WL's in general. I have no idea how HLS works with merit aid or anything of the sort - I just know I won't get any.

Are you super rich? That's the only way you wouldn't get the same amount of aid as everyone else.

I didn't mean to come across as a rich dude. I've never received aid throughout UG etc because my parents do well enough. I'm personally not rolling in cash, unfortunately.

I didn't mean to start a thing about hls FA either. Just saying that schools (take NYU for ex) can scoop people up from WL to make the medians or their # of urm etc and still get them to pay sticker (because NYU admittedly doesn't give much aid off WL iirc)

[txdude45]

As a white dude below both medians, I think I'll just keep whistling a happy tune and riding this train as far as it will take me.

You must have monster softs. Mind if I inquire?

[toothbrush]

As a white dude below both medians, I think I'll just keep whistling a happy tune and riding this train as far as it will take me.

You must have monster softs. Mind if I inquire?

it could be that he's from a weird state in the US or something. doesn't even have to make sense at this point but schools DO report things like that.

[dawyzest1]

it could be that he's from a weird state in the US or something. doesn't even have to make sense at this point but schools DO report things like that.

This sounds right to me. Beyond reporting, they are going to want to have balance in the class geographically from a pedagogical perspective. The thinking goes you get a better experience the more diverse perspectives you can bring to bear in class and on campus. That's one of the big selling points of the "national" law school. You'll meet people from all over the US and many different parts of the world. I know I would be real disappointed to show up on campus and see that everyone was from the east coast, for instance.