International Applicants 2012-2013 Forum

[mez4083]

168/superior
While my results are not as good as I expected.
In: Georgetown, Austin($36k), GW($60k)
Reject: Berkeley, Michigan, Northwestern, Cornell, Virginia(Early Decision), Duke(applied Early Decision after being rejected by Virginia), Penn
Waiting list: UCLA(having withdrawn my application )
No reason why I got so many rejections instead of wl or defer...

I cannot believe it... I think you should at least be waitlisted by a couple of schools, such as UM, UVA.... Do you come from Asia? In undergra?

You got it...
I think that's probably why I got so many rejects. Maybe I should work a couple of years then apply?

I think if you really want law school in the US (and at one of the schools you've been rejected from, of course) then taking a year or two out sounds like a good idea. You have the same LSAT and a better transcript eval that I have but I am in at Mich and UCLA and WL at Virginia so far. Haven't heard back at the other schools you listed. There must be something about your application that these schools don't like. If you don't know what it is, then I would take time out to get some experience and convince these schools that they want you. I think some schools are suspicious of applicants who they think are applying for selfish reasons (I think UCLA are pretty good at figuring this out, Michigan too) so you could try volunteering or doing some kind of community service before reapplying.

eta: your Superior evaluation discredits my theory about GWU. I guess they just lowball international applicants generally.

Actually, there might be something about me law schools dislike. I believe most of the applicants are between 22-30, but I am only 19 (I attended primary school at age 4). Probably, they would think with my young age I would not do as well as other older students in law school.
I have thought about retaking LSAT or working a couple of years. But being admitted to Georgetown makes me have second thoughts. Are there really so many differences between Georgetown and other T10 law schools, say Michigan or Virginia, in the filed of job hunting?
Congratulate on your admission to Michigan. I really love that law school and felt so sad being rejected.

[poichi]

Actually, there might be something about me law schools dislike. I believe most of the applicants are between 22-30, but I am only 19 (I attended primary school at age 4). Probably, they would think with my young age I would not do as well as other older students in law school.
I have thought about retaking LSAT or working a couple of years. But being admitted to Georgetown makes me have second thoughts. Are there really so many differences between Georgetown and other T10 law schools, say Michigan or Virginia, in the filed of job hunting?
Congratulate on your admission to Michigan. I really love that law school and felt so sad being rejected.

Thanks It's a great school and I'm very happy to be accepted. I'm really waiting on Cornell though because I am interested in some of their programs in particular. (Amusingly, I also got the following message in my Panda Express fortune cookie today: "ACCEPT THE NEXT PROPOSITION YOU RECEIVE". Goddamn fortune cookies are trying to counsel me on law school now??) Sometimes I wish that there were something like StubHub for law school acceptances where we could trade for what we want.

I personally wouldn't attend Georgetown without a good scholarship, and with my (our) numbers I don't think it's likely, as they have a reputation for being tight with money. Their employment numbers are just too muddy and difficult to figure out, and I don't know if I care enough about being in DC and the whole political culture/jerbs.

Regarding your age, this might be what the problem is. I believe that the average age for an entering class is 24, and I am a little over this myself, so I have a few more experiences than the average applicant (particularly with being from abroad). I have noticed that a lot of posters on TLS are older and more mature than the average applicant actually, so I think the average age on TLS might be higher than the average generally (just as TLS posters tend to be better credentialed and get more acceptances).

The good news is that this gives you plenty of time to figure yourself out, try to knock your LSAT up another few points, and really go for it in a few years' time, if law school is still what you want to do. I remember reading someone on these forums who talked about how happy they are that they didn't go to law school at 20 (as some people do). It's true what they say: law school isn't going anywhere, and it will still be there in a few years if you decide to reapply. Extra life experiences will really help you maintain perspective on your studies and I think it's just more beneficial in stressful situations like law school when you know yourself a little better than when you are younger. I am also really lucky in that I am married now, so I will have someone to lean on (and hopefully help support us financially if she can get a teaching job in the town we move to, which will really help with the financial burden of law school). I think if you can get some life experiences behind you and eventually make them into a convincing story of your life and why your path is in law school in the US (as long as you still feel that way), then you will be set.

Of course, you still are in at some great schools, so the decision is totally up to you. I totally get that you are probably anxious to get on the path that you want to be on, but I will be 30 or 31 when I graduate law school (depending on the program I do and whether I can do math right now) so you could work for four years and still be well up on me age-wise (not that this is a race or anything )

[jmjm]

Where does the LSAC CAS page show the transcript evaluation? My status shows the international UG transcript as received.
It also shows 1 outstanding transcript for the grad school and the "Academic Summary Report" doesn't show anything.

[poichi]

On the transcripts page, there will be a link on the right that says "JD Foreign CAS Evaluation". Click on it and it will download a PDF titled "CREDENTIAL ASSEMBLY SERVICE / INTERNATIONAL CREDENTIAL EVALUATION". The evaluation is next to the header "*Quality of academic record for this institution" on the PDF.

FYI if LSAC is waiting for a transcript still, I don't think they will produce the report. (I say don't think because I don't know if this applies to grad school transcripts also.) My "Academic Summary Report" is pretty much blank also - just my name and other bio details, plus it says College - FOREIGN.

[actium31]

Has any of my fellow international applicants received a Columbia offer (RD)? After a week of waiting, I've given up the hope.

Nope- in the same boat here I would love to believe that they're just waiting a little longer on us internationals, except that in my experience so far every other T10 school (with the exception of SH and Chicago) has been fairly speedy..i'll keep my fingers crossed for both of us!

[Lexie_M_89]

Here to share the financial aid information from UVA. I would be very glad if it saves you some time on this matter.

International students are only eligible for merit scholarships. As a result of that, the Need Access form will not be required. Our Director of Financial Aid, Jennifer Hulvey, has now indicated that as an international student, you do not need to complete the Need Access form. Anne Richard, Senior Asst. Dean of Admissions, will consider you for merit scholarship opportunities available at UVA Law School. She will communicate directly with you regarding the outcome of her review. If you are planning on pursuing private-sector alternative loans, you should begin contacting various lending institutions to determine if they offer educational loans to international students and their appropriate loan application process and procedures. To recap, since you are an international student, you do not need to complete the Need Access form. You also do not need to complete the FAFSA as you are not eligible for federal loans. By virtue of your being an international student and you have been offered admission to UVA Law School, you will be considered for merit-based scholarships only by Dean Anne Richard.

[mez4083]

Actually, there might be something about me law schools dislike. I believe most of the applicants are between 22-30, but I am only 19 (I attended primary school at age 4). Probably, they would think with my young age I would not do as well as other older students in law school.
I have thought about retaking LSAT or working a couple of years. But being admitted to Georgetown makes me have second thoughts. Are there really so many differences between Georgetown and other T10 law schools, say Michigan or Virginia, in the filed of job hunting?
Congratulate on your admission to Michigan. I really love that law school and felt so sad being rejected.

Thanks It's a great school and I'm very happy to be accepted. I'm really waiting on Cornell though because I am interested in some of their programs in particular. (Amusingly, I also got the following message in my Panda Express fortune cookie today: "ACCEPT THE NEXT PROPOSITION YOU RECEIVE". Goddamn fortune cookies are trying to counsel me on law school now??) Sometimes I wish that there were something like StubHub for law school acceptances where we could trade for what we want.

I personally wouldn't attend Georgetown without a good scholarship, and with my (our) numbers I don't think it's likely, as they have a reputation for being tight with money. Their employment numbers are just too muddy and difficult to figure out, and I don't know if I care enough about being in DC and the whole political culture/jerbs.

Regarding your age, this might be what the problem is. I believe that the average age for an entering class is 24, and I am a little over this myself, so I have a few more experiences than the average applicant (particularly with being from abroad). I have noticed that a lot of posters on TLS are older and more mature than the average applicant actually, so I think the average age on TLS might be higher than the average generally (just as TLS posters tend to be better credentialed and get more acceptances).

The good news is that this gives you plenty of time to figure yourself out, try to knock your LSAT up another few points, and really go for it in a few years' time, if law school is still what you want to do. I remember reading someone on these forums who talked about how happy they are that they didn't go to law school at 20 (as some people do). It's true what they say: law school isn't going anywhere, and it will still be there in a few years if you decide to reapply. Extra life experiences will really help you maintain perspective on your studies and I think it's just more beneficial in stressful situations like law school when you know yourself a little better than when you are younger. I am also really lucky in that I am married now, so I will have someone to lean on (and hopefully help support us financially if she can get a teaching job in the town we move to, which will really help with the financial burden of law school). I think if you can get some life experiences behind you and eventually make them into a convincing story of your life and why your path is in law school in the US (as long as you still feel that way), then you will be set.

Of course, you still are in at some great schools, so the decision is totally up to you. I totally get that you are probably anxious to get on the path that you want to be on, but I will be 30 or 31 when I graduate law school (depending on the program I do and whether I can do math right now) so you could work for four years and still be well up on me age-wise (not that this is a race or anything )

Thanks for your suggestion. Its very helpful.

But given my undergraduate background and competency it is hard to find a decent job in my location. I probably would end up with doing some work as a legal assistant for several years but gain no practical experiences in law. It seems that going to law school right now in the best option I could have. And I think paying more attention to transfer after 1L is more practical than waiting a few more years and getting a higher LSAT (I really have had enough of that horrible exam).

You are really lucky to have a happy family before going to law school. I have heard of a lot of words about law school girls failing to find a boyfriend during and after the three years. Thus I am a little worried about my life in the future....

Anyway, thanks for your reply, and I am pretty sure you will excel in law school.

[IwishIknewIt]

Guys I have a question,

I assume international students are competing in the pool of international students, but the question is does law school differentiate international students with different locations? e.g. comparing a student from non-english speaking country with a student from UK is definitely not fair, because the nature of the language.

[IwishIknewIt]

You are really lucky to have a happy family before going to law school. I have heard of a lot of words about law school girls failing to find a boyfriend during and after the three years. Thus I am a little worried about my life in the future....

Anyway, thanks for your reply, and I am pretty sure you will excel in law school.

Correct me if I am wrong, you are 19 and worried about finding a boyfriend during or after law school? By the time you graduate you will be 22, you have plenty of time.

And a 19 years old going to law school? Wow.

[poichi]

Guys I have a question,

I assume international students are competing in the pool of international students, but the question is does law school differentiate international students with different locations? e.g. comparing a student from non-english speaking country with a student from UK is definitely not fair, because the nature of the language.

I don't think there is any evidence to say that international applicants are competing directly against each other in a zero-sum game (i.e. if I get accepted to a school, it doesn't mean that this school cannot now take you because you are also an international applicant). We are of course competing, but only to the extent that we are competing against everybody else who is applying to the same schools, whether from the US or abroad. Our applications all go into the same pile for review. I think this question goes back to the idea that there is some kind of "quota" of international students that schools cannot exceed, which again I don't believe there is any evidence for.

[mez4083]

You are really lucky to have a happy family before going to law school. I have heard of a lot of words about law school girls failing to find a boyfriend during and after the three years. Thus I am a little worried about my life in the future....

Anyway, thanks for your reply, and I am pretty sure you will excel in law school.

Correct me if I am wrong, you are 19 and worried about finding a boyfriend during or after law school? By the time you graduate you will be 22, you have plenty of time.

And a 19 years old going to law school? Wow.

What am I supposed to say about that?..
I hope going to law school at 19 would not be a wrong decision in my life. >_<

[Lexie_M_89]

You are really lucky to have a happy family before going to law school. I have heard of a lot of words about law school girls failing to find a boyfriend during and after the three years. Thus I am a little worried about my life in the future....

Anyway, thanks for your reply, and I am pretty sure you will excel in law school.

Correct me if I am wrong, you are 19 and worried about finding a boyfriend during or after law school? By the time you graduate you will be 22, you have plenty of time.

And a 19 years old going to law school? Wow.

What am I supposed to say about that?..
I hope going to law school at 19 would not be a wrong decision in my life. >_<

Why do you expect everything in such a hurry? I know that many Chinese people regard such attitude as a virtue. I will not judge it, but I just hope you understand that "getting there is half the fun".

[mez4083]

You are really lucky to have a happy family before going to law school. I have heard of a lot of words about law school girls failing to find a boyfriend during and after the three years. Thus I am a little worried about my life in the future....

Anyway, thanks for your reply, and I am pretty sure you will excel in law school.

Correct me if I am wrong, you are 19 and worried about finding a boyfriend during or after law school? By the time you graduate you will be 22, you have plenty of time.

And a 19 years old going to law school? Wow.

What am I supposed to say about that?..
I hope going to law school at 19 would not be a wrong decision in my life. >_<

Why do you expect everything in such a hurry? I know that many Chinese people regard such attitude as a virtue. I will not judge it, but I just hope you understand that "getting there is half the fun".

Actually, it's nothing about "attitude". Things just naturally happen. I had the idea of going to law school in my third year of college and thus took the LSAT. It seems like you want to do something different so you start to prepare for it, and when you feel you are ready, just go. Many of my peers decide to apply after they work a few years because they fail to get a satisfied LSAT score or could not get in their dreams schools without working experience. Therefore, I decided to apply for this cycle and see where I could go. If there were no good results, I would spend a few more years working or doing some other things. Thus I will wait the results of the other law schools I applied and make a final decision about to go or to wait.

I know the three years of law school would be hard for me, considering that I am younger and not a native speaker of English. I am not sure I will perform well in law school, but I am prepared for embracing all the challenges and opportunities.

I would not call such a decision as "hurry". But if you would have any suggestions about in order to be "not hurry", what I should do in the following years if turning down the offers I already had, I would really appreciate that. Thanks.

[bbsg]

Interesting post from Dean Perez in the Texas Tech thread in the Law Admissions Forum:

This is a good one because the concept also applies to students from US schools that don't grade (e.g. Evergreen St. in Washington is one I used to get at Idaho a lot) or students with LSATs taken with accommodations. Grades and scores in these situations are not included in the calculations for the ABA and USNWR rankings.

For internationally educated students, especially those from non-English speaking countries, schools are going to put more emphasis on the LSAT and writing, both essay AND LSAT sample, because most of us aren't going to really be familiar with how rigorous your undergraduate education was. If your English is weak, law school is going to be very difficult. By the same token though, the LSAT is going to be difficult if your English is weak so a high score tends to suggest the applicant can make it in law school. The writing is used in the same way. The LSAT writing sample for non-native English speakers and foreign applicants is scrutinized very closely by many reviewers because we never know how much help one had in writing their personal statement. I have seen many applications where the PS was OK, but the LSAT writing was really bad, leading us to wonder about the PS and their true ability level.

Dean Perez

[IwishIknewIt]

Interesting post from Dean Perez in the Texas Tech thread in the Law Admissions Forum:

This is a good one because the concept also applies to students from US schools that don't grade (e.g. Evergreen St. in Washington is one I used to get at Idaho a lot) or students with LSATs taken with accommodations. Grades and scores in these situations are not included in the calculations for the ABA and USNWR rankings.

For internationally educated students, especially those from non-English speaking countries, schools are going to put more emphasis on the LSAT and writing, both essay AND LSAT sample, because most of us aren't going to really be familiar with how rigorous your undergraduate education was. If your English is weak, law school is going to be very difficult. By the same token though, the LSAT is going to be difficult if your English is weak so a high score tends to suggest the applicant can make it in law school. The writing is used in the same way. The LSAT writing sample for non-native English speakers and foreign applicants is scrutinized very closely by many reviewers because we never know how much help one had in writing their personal statement. I have seen many applications where the PS was OK, but the LSAT writing was really bad, leading us to wonder about the PS and their true ability level.

Dean Perez

I notice this as well. Can anyone confirm this?

[IwishIknewIt]

@mez4083 enjoy law school. Just as poichi pointed out, try to negotiate some scholarship with GULC, I wouldn't go without a full ride. As for transfer, it will be really hard for us (international students whose first language is not English) to perform well in law school. But hey, you never know. Good luck!

[wisteria]

I notice this as well. Can anyone confirm this?

It's pretty standard stuff, right? They are not familiar with foreign transcripts and thus pay more attention to your writing samples. I assume it's a given.

[IwishIknewIt]

It's pretty standard stuff, right? They are not familiar with foreign transcripts and thus pay more attention to your writing samples. I assume it's a given.

Yes that's true, but under test condition the last writing section can get sketchy. I don't even remember what I wrote though.....

[Lexie_M_89]

Therefore, I decided to apply for this cycle and see where I could go. If there were no good results, I would spend a few more years working or doing some other things. Thus I will wait the results of the other law schools I applied and make a final decision about to go or to wait.

what I should do in the following years if turning down the offers I already had, I would really appreciate that. Thanks.[/quote]

If you doubt GT's offer is a good enough result, then attending or not will be a hard decision, I think.

[mez4083]

Therefore, I decided to apply for this cycle and see where I could go. If there were no good results, I would spend a few more years working or doing some other things. Thus I will wait the results of the other law schools I applied and make a final decision about to go or to wait.

what I should do in the following years if turning down the offers I already had, I would really appreciate that. Thanks.

If you doubt GT's offer is a good enough result, then attending or not will be a hard decision, I think.

So I guess I would happily go to GULC "in a hurry".

[mez4083]

@mez4083 enjoy law school. Just as poichi pointed out, try to negotiate some scholarship with GULC, I wouldn't go without a full ride. As for transfer, it will be really hard for us (international students whose first language is not English) to perform well in law school. But hey, you never know. Good luck!

Thanks. But given my numbers and background, I did not expect any merit scholarship from GULC. And I don't think my offer from UT and GW would become leverage for scholarship, since GULC seems not to consider them as competitive. Anyway, I would still give a shot.

[Lexie_M_89]

Therefore, I decided to apply for this cycle and see where I could go. If there were no good results, I would spend a few more years working or doing some other things. Thus I will wait the results of the other law schools I applied and make a final decision about to go or to wait.

what I should do in the following years if turning down the offers I already had, I would really appreciate that. Thanks.

If you doubt GT's offer is a good enough result, then attending or not will be a hard decision, I think.

So I guess I would happily go to GULC "in a hurry".

Good luck~ Then you will be the classmate of my friend. I am sure she will know the youngest student in her class

[eyfl]

It's pretty standard stuff, right? They are not familiar with foreign transcripts and thus pay more attention to your writing samples. I assume it's a given.

Yes that's true, but under test condition the last writing section can get sketchy. I don't even remember what I wrote though.....

You can view it on the lsac website. This is how I noticed my own lapse. At the same time I bet admission folks do know that it's your last section and you might have an error here or there, or write in a not-so-fancy language. However, the overall style should probably be relatively similar to your PS / whatever other thing you write (otherwise they will suspect something fishy).

In any case I think it's still more a matter of pure numbers unless you're shooting for HYS (and maybe a couple of other very top ranked schools).

[onionskin]

Checking in late to the party.

Never realized LSAC assigned a "rating" to your undergraduate transcript. So relieved to find I was "Above Average".

AA/164/England.

Can't wait to see what comes back.

[namie_diary]

I am international applicant too (from Brazil =D) and I think I will apply for the next cycle. I am considering retaking the toefl test bc my score was 90 and I am afraid it is too low for me to apply to Law School in US. Anyone here took the toefl too?