BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

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PRgradBYU
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby PRgradBYU » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:04 am

jimmy_dean wrote:scaring me away too. us news is obviously garbage, but i the drop feels foreboding and makes it hard for me to choose byu. i'm about 20/80 in terms of attending/not attending. i'm very debt averse, but perhaps more averse to the risk of not having gainful legal employment upon graduation.


That's right about where I'm at. You've summed it up perfectly.

Nickg415 wrote:I know in the Princeton review BYU is rated one of the most competitive. I dont know how they rate schools, you can look it up, so take it for what its worth.


Wouldn't surprise me. The scary thing about BYU's ultra-competitiveness is that it's so crucial to finish in the top 20-25% in order to snatch up a decent job in Utah's saturated legal market (people just don't want to leave here, I guess), yet it's probably one of the tougher law schools to do so. I swear I'm not trying to speak pessimistically about BYU; I'm just realistically weighing the pros and cons.

JDaviator wrote:The real problem with not being in the top 15% at BYU is getting a job in Utah at a good firm. Utah is too saturated with professionals. The whole country is in a sense, but especially Utah.


You've nailed it, my friend. Today's professional degree is like yesterday's bachelor degree in Utah.

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buddyt
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby buddyt » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:16 pm

Some encouraging news -- class of 2012 employment stats are up: http://www.law2.byu.edu/page/categories ... y-2012.pdf

Few quick highlights:
- 63.9% full-time JD-required employment, up from 51.4% last year
- Federal clerkships are up to 7 from 4 last year
- 32.0% percent working in firms of 2+ attorneys, basically unchanged from 31.1% last year

jimmy_dean
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby jimmy_dean » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:33 pm

anybody going to the "event" next thursday? i'm trying to decide if it's worth a whole day and an hour of driving each way. the wife is pushing hard for byu (over usc), so i'll probably end up going.

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yodamiked
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby yodamiked » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:49 pm

jimmy_dean wrote:anybody going to the "event" next thursday? i'm trying to decide if it's worth a whole day and an hour of driving each way. the wife is pushing hard for byu (over usc), so i'll probably end up going.


I'll be there. My trip is a little longer too (coming from Canada). :wink:

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buddyt
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby buddyt » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:16 pm

jimmy_dean wrote:anybody going to the "event" next thursday? i'm trying to decide if it's worth a whole day and an hour of driving each way. the wife is pushing hard for byu (over usc), so i'll probably end up going.

I'll be there.

PRgradBYU
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby PRgradBYU » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:19 pm

jimmy_dean wrote:anybody going to the "event" next thursday? i'm trying to decide if it's worth a whole day and an hour of driving each way. the wife is pushing hard for byu (over usc), so i'll probably end up going.


I'll be there. My wife is really bent on me going to BYU over anywhere else, too, haha.

jimmy_dean
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby jimmy_dean » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:00 am

yall convinced me, i'll be there with wife in tow.

bobsacamanno
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby bobsacamanno » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:11 pm

I'm getting a call in an hour and a half. Wish me luck . . . I'm 3.98, but only 156 :?

PRgradBYU
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby PRgradBYU » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:21 pm

bobsacamanno wrote:I'm getting a call in an hour and a half. Wish me luck . . . I'm 3.98, but only 156 :?


A super reverse splitter, eh? Good luck! I'm assuming the phone call can only be good news.

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yodamiked
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby yodamiked » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:01 pm

bobsacamanno wrote:I'm getting a call in an hour and a half. Wish me luck . . . I'm 3.98, but only 156 :?


Good luck! My interview was really only two questions. Chances are, if you're getting a call, you're getting in.

himsiu
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby himsiu » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:07 pm

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Last edited by himsiu on Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jimmy_dean
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby jimmy_dean » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:34 pm

himsiu wrote:received an email from dean hernandez yesterday asking if im still in the position of being considered as a prospective student. does that mean that i am officially on the waiting list and still have a slim shot?


most likely. it also means they're struggling to fill their class.

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BobLoblawNE
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby BobLoblawNE » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:19 pm

I was accepted to BYU Law yesterday, no scholarship – likely bottom of the barrel since I wasn’t notified until late March, but I’m in! Thank you to those early BYU acceptances that rejected their offers! BYU has been my number one school from before I started studying for the LSAT. I was admitted in spite of below median LSAT and GPA probably due to my work experience, age, my LORs, etc. I’m 37, married with kids, and just finished my undergrad in 2010 at University of Nebraska - Omaha.

My next best offer is from Nebraska Law with a full ride – top 50% of the class to maintain scholarship. BYU is now USNWR 44 and Nebraska is 61, jumping from 89 in last year’s rankings. I have lived in Omaha most of my life so UNL (50 miles up the road) is courting me hard-core as a native son.

My question for the group is BYU at LDS tuition or Nebraska at full-ride? Is BYU worth the tuition (debt) vs. Nebraska for free? When Nebraska was ranked 89 last year, this was a much easier decision - BYU for sure. But with BYU slipping and Nebraska jumping up…not so sure now. USNWR isn’t everything – just providing as a gauge for those unaware of Nebraska Law. I know that I’m old and the market for JDs is soft, but the decision to go to law school has been made. With either school I’m packing up the family and moving so whether it’s 50 miles or 900, it’s just extra mileage on the U-Haul. I just need to decide where to go. Thanks for any input you can provide.

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buddyt
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby buddyt » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:05 pm

BobLoblawNE wrote:My question for the group is BYU at LDS tuition or Nebraska at full-ride?

Assuming you plan on working in Nebraska, UNL is the easy choice. Rankings don't matter outside of the T14. Take the full-ride and don't look back.

jimmy_dean
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby jimmy_dean » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:08 pm

BobLoblawNE wrote:I was accepted to BYU Law yesterday, no scholarship – likely bottom of the barrel since I wasn’t notified until late March, but I’m in! Thank you to those early BYU acceptances that rejected their offers! BYU has been my number one school from before I started studying for the LSAT. I was admitted in spite of below median LSAT and GPA probably due to my work experience, age, my LORs, etc. I’m 37, married with kids, and just finished my undergrad in 2010 at University of Nebraska - Omaha.

My next best offer is from Nebraska Law with a full ride – top 50% of the class to maintain scholarship. BYU is now USNWR 44 and Nebraska is 61, jumping from 89 in last year’s rankings. I have lived in Omaha most of my life so UNL (50 miles up the road) is courting me hard-core as a native son.

My question for the group is BYU at LDS tuition or Nebraska at full-ride? Is BYU worth the tuition (debt) vs. Nebraska for free? When Nebraska was ranked 89 last year, this was a much easier decision - BYU for sure. But with BYU slipping and Nebraska jumping up…not so sure now. USNWR isn’t everything – just providing as a gauge for those unaware of Nebraska Law. I know that I’m old and the market for JDs is soft, but the decision to go to law school has been made. With either school I’m packing up the family and moving so whether it’s 50 miles or 900, it’s just extra mileage on the U-Haul. I just need to decide where to go. Thanks for any input you can provide.


depends on where you want to end up and your career goals. neither is likely to get you big law. i have no idea what the market is like in nebraska, but you'd have to be in the top 15% of your class at byu to have a shot at slc midlaw (starting at $100k +/- $10k). i'd ignore usnwr, it's totally worthless when it comes to making a decision.

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Nickg415
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby Nickg415 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:09 pm

BobLoblawNE wrote:My question for the group is BYU at LDS tuition or Nebraska at full-ride? Is BYU worth the tuition (debt) vs. Nebraska for free? When Nebraska was ranked 89 last year, this was a much easier decision - BYU for sure. But with BYU slipping and Nebraska jumping up…not so sure now. USNWR isn’t everything – just providing as a gauge for those unaware of Nebraska Law. I know that I’m old and the market for JDs is soft, but the decision to go to law school has been made. With either school I’m packing up the family and moving so whether it’s 50 miles or 900, it’s just extra mileage on the U-Haul. I just need to decide where to go. Thanks for any input you can provide.


Really the decision comes down to where you want to work. Utah or Nebraska. While Utah has a couple of secondary markets it places into (California/Nevada) it doesn't have a very strong presence in these markets, especially for those outside the top of the class. While Nebraska lacks any secondary markets, it dominates Nebraska. Over all Nebraska has better employment stats on LST than BYU but not by much. There are probably other factors to consider in your case like wife's employment, closeness to extended family/support network for kids/wife, ect. but from a employment perspective, if you want to work in Utah - BYU. If you want to work in Nebraska - Nebraska.

PRgradBYU
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby PRgradBYU » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:22 pm

jimmy_dean wrote: i'd ignore usnwr, it's totally worthless when it comes to making a decision.


Best advice you'll ever receive, BobLoblawNE. You should be much more concerned with employment data, COA (cost of attendance), and where you want to end up practicing law. I'd go with the full-ride scholly at UNL.

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buddyt
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby buddyt » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:05 pm

Nickg415 wrote:if you want to work in Utah - BYU. If you want to work in Nebraska - Nebraska.

Keep in mind that Utah is just as saturated with JDs as CA or NYC--Mormons love their professional degrees--so working there will not be trivial.

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BobLoblawNE
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby BobLoblawNE » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:30 pm

Nickg415 wrote:
BobLoblawNE wrote:My question for the group is BYU at LDS tuition or Nebraska at full-ride? Is BYU worth the tuition (debt) vs. Nebraska for free? When Nebraska was ranked 89 last year, this was a much easier decision - BYU for sure. But with BYU slipping and Nebraska jumping up…not so sure now. USNWR isn’t everything – just providing as a gauge for those unaware of Nebraska Law. I know that I’m old and the market for JDs is soft, but the decision to go to law school has been made. With either school I’m packing up the family and moving so whether it’s 50 miles or 900, it’s just extra mileage on the U-Haul. I just need to decide where to go. Thanks for any input you can provide.


Really the decision comes down to where you want to work. Utah or Nebraska. While Utah has a couple of secondary markets it places into (California/Nevada) it doesn't have a very strong presence in these markets, especially for those outside the top of the class. While Nebraska lacks any secondary markets, it dominates Nebraska. Over all Nebraska has better employment stats on LST than BYU but not by much. There are probably other factors to consider in your case like wife's employment, closeness to extended family/support network for kids/wife, ect. but from a employment perspective, if you want to work in Utah - BYU. If you want to work in Nebraska - Nebraska.


I've talked to a UNL Law grad (non-LDS) that had classmates in the JRCLS that got jobs in CA, NV, and elsewhere. Seems like I'd have equal access to the LDS network regardless of where I attend school. I'm not set on practicing in either NE or UT post graduation. Unless the demand for JDs makes a huge upswing in the next 3 years, I'll take the job I can get, where I can get it. My parents and siblings live in Omaha, but my wife's family is in SoCal and Washington state, so UT is attractive both for school and post graduation since it's in the middle. I'm visiting UNL Friday, visited BYU and the U last week (turning down the U because they're only giving me in-state which is still more than double BYU). Hopefully that will provide additional clarity.

It sounds like the consensus is that there is no more "prestige" with a BYU JD than any other top 100 school (I know - ignore USNWR). That's kind of surprising to me. Not that prestige matters - jobs matter. But for discussion, if I am in the top 25% at BYU v. top 25% at UNL (all other factors constant) and apply for a position in Denver for instance, am I even in the prospective employer's eyes? If gossip is correct, top 25% of class at BYU would be tougher than at UNL but do employers know that/care?

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BobLoblawNE
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby BobLoblawNE » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:50 pm

BobLoblawNE wrote:
Nickg415 wrote:
BobLoblawNE wrote:But for discussion, if I am in the top 25% at BYU v. top 25% at UNL (all other factors constant) and apply for a position in Denver for instance, am I even in the prospective employer's eyes?


Maybe the better question would be top 25% at UNL v. top 75% at BYU.

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Nickg415
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby Nickg415 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:07 pm

BobLoblawNE wrote:
BobLoblawNE wrote:
Nickg415 wrote:
BobLoblawNE wrote:But for discussion, if I am in the top 25% at BYU v. top 25% at UNL (all other factors constant) and apply for a position in Denver for instance, am I even in the prospective employer's eyes?


Maybe the better question would be top 25% at UNL v. top 75% at BYU.


top 25% at UNL I assume VASTLY out performs 75% at BYU. Getting into colorado is possible. neither place has significant hold in the area but its possible. IDK what either career services are like but once you get there just make your plans known to them asap and work with them. again the 25/75 UNL. the 25/25 I would actually lean towards BYU. Also remember BYU is one of the more competitive law schools in the country.

bobsacamanno
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby bobsacamanno » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:28 pm

It looks like I'm in. :)

himsiu
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby himsiu » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:35 pm

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Last edited by himsiu on Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jimmy_dean
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby jimmy_dean » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:11 pm

Admitted students day was pretty good, if a little boring. I feel like i could have lived without going but it was nice to meet prgrad, yodamike, buddytyler, et al. I talked to a lot of people with great offers considering BYU, so it could be an interesting class this fall.

PRgradBYU
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Re: BYU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

Postby PRgradBYU » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:26 pm

jimmy_dean wrote:Admitted students day was pretty good, if a little boring. I feel like i could have lived without going but it was nice to meet prgrad, yodamike, buddytyler, et al. I talked to a lot of people with great offers considering BYU, so it could be an interesting class this fall.


Agreed. It was great to meet everyone, but some parts of the day (OK really just one: sitting through the entire Con Law class) probably weren't entirely necessary. I'm curious as to how the spouse's luncheon went / what was talked about, haha.




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