SMU c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle) Forum

[majnana]

Also, can anyone give me feedback on living in The Hill at The Village?

[GardenGnome]

Also, can anyone give me feedback on living in The Hill at The Village?

I have some friends who live over there and they all enjoy it. You are close to campus (5-10 minutes) and have access to a massive park and a country club that is across the street. It is cheap compared to your other options around SMU. Anything in Highland Park or Uptown is going to be heavy financially.

[nouseforaname123]

What kind of job offers, salary, etc can someone who actually does place top 10% at SMU expect? And when you say top 10%, is that basically just based on 1L grades? I'm under the impression that a great deal of job offers come from 2L summer employment, which is based off just that one year of grades. So is it uber-important to place top 10% in the first year, then less important 2nd and 3rd years? (I'm also under the impression that if you don't have a job offer by the start of 3L you are practically doomed to a life of doc review. Is that more or less right?)

Top 10% very likely gets you Biglaw. Generally, biglaw starts at $160k, but some firms pay less than that.

Interviewing for Biglaw occurs during OCI, which is held in the August before your 2L year. Yes, employers are basically screening you on the basis of your 1L grades. You then work for those firms during the summer following your 2L year. At the end of that summer, those firms will make permanent job offers. About 10-15% of the class seems to land these types of jobs.

Generally, non-biglaw employers wait until closer to graduation to make hiring decisions. This doesn't mean a non-biglaw student is doomed to a life of doc review, but serious hustle is needed to land a position.

[majnana]

Also, can anyone give me feedback on living in The Hill at The Village?

I have some friends who live over there and they all enjoy it. You are close to campus (5-10 minutes) and have access to a massive park and a country club that is across the street. It is cheap compared to your other options around SMU. Anything in Highland Park or Uptown is going to be heavy financially.

Thanks. I have to rent a three-bedroom (myself, spouse, and three kids) and The Hill is about the cheapest I can find in the area. Once cost of gas and inconvenience is factored in, it doesn't make much sense to live up in Plano or other northern areas, despite the rent difference. And the Village seems like it has a whole lot of amenities. It's pretty old, though... Built in the 70's. And no elevator to the second floor, which is where the apartment I'm looking at is located.

[kalvano]

What kind of job offers, salary, etc can someone who actually does place top 10% at SMU expect? And when you say top 10%, is that basically just based on 1L grades? I'm under the impression that a great deal of job offers come from 2L summer employment, which is based off just that one year of grades. So is it uber-important to place top 10% in the first year, then less important 2nd and 3rd years? (I'm also under the impression that if you don't have a job offer by the start of 3L you are practically doomed to a life of doc review. Is that more or less right?)

Unless you suck at interviewing, you're looking at your pick of firms most likely. There are plenty of big-name firms (Akin Gump, Baker Botts) that start at $160K that come to SMU, and there also well-respected but more local firms (Winstead) that have less onerous hours but also pay around $135K or so.

You do the work your second summer, but it's based off your first-year grades.

But doc review is a lot of what you'll do at a large firm, so being "doomed to doc review" cuts both ways. In fact, doc review is a massive chunk of what you will do your entire career as an attorney.

[Well_he_did_not]

Can anyone speak to firms in Dallas that try to specifically recruit minorities either as summer associates or 1 year associates? I don't know how much truth this holds but I've been told that some firms try to diversify their associates a bit. Any truth to this? And if so, to what extent?

[JXander]

Can anyone speak to firms in Dallas that try to specifically recruit minorities either as summer associates or 1 year associates? I don't know how much truth this holds but I've been told that some firms try to diversify their associates a bit. Any truth to this? And if so, to what extent?

I am also interested in this in the Dallas context.

[kalvano]

Can anyone speak to firms in Dallas that try to specifically recruit minorities either as summer associates or 1 year associates? I don't know how much truth this holds but I've been told that some firms try to diversify their associates a bit. Any truth to this? And if so, to what extent?

Yes, there are. They have minority programs for 1L SA's and that sort of thing. I don't know much about it since I am about as majority as they come, but maybe Thirteen can give you some insight. I suggest that because he (1) attends SMU, and (2) is URM. I have no idea if he investigated the programs, did anything with them, or can offer any insight, but try PM'ing him.

[majnana]

What kind of job offers, salary, etc can someone who actually does place top 10% at SMU expect? And when you say top 10%, is that basically just based on 1L grades? I'm under the impression that a great deal of job offers come from 2L summer employment, which is based off just that one year of grades. So is it uber-important to place top 10% in the first year, then less important 2nd and 3rd years? (I'm also under the impression that if you don't have a job offer by the start of 3L you are practically doomed to a life of doc review. Is that more or less right?)

Unless you suck at interviewing, you're looking at your pick of firms most likely. There are plenty of big-name firms (Akin Gump, Baker Botts) that start at $160K that come to SMU, and there also well-respected but more local firms (Winstead) that have less onerous hours but also pay around $135K or so.

You do the work your second summer, but it's based off your first-year grades.

But doc review is a lot of what you'll do at a large firm, so being "doomed to doc review" cuts both ways. In fact, doc review is a massive chunk of what you will do your entire career as an attorney.

Doc review doesn't sound so bad in and of itself, actually. I love to proof-read, and I've done work-related tasks in other jobs that sound similar to doc review. However, I hear that the temporary kind can be a quick career-killer. So the more local firms really do have less onerous hours? I wonder if grads with families ever choose a lower-paying job over a higher-paying one just for better "work/life" balance.

On a side-note, I went to the Dallas area of the Baker Botts website to look through their associate profiles. Tons of associates but very, very few SMU grads. :/ Is the turn-over just that quick or do they only pluck, like, one associate per year from SMU?

[Well_he_did_not]

I'll PM him JXander, I'll fwd you the reply if I get one.

Thanks man @kalvano

[wannabelawstudent]

I'll PM him JXander, I'll fwd you the reply if I get one.

Thanks man @kalvano

can I get it too?

[Well_he_did_not]

I'll PM him JXander, I'll fwd you the reply if I get one.

Thanks man @kalvano

can I get it too?

yezzir

[wannabelawstudent]

I'll PM him JXander, I'll fwd you the reply if I get one.

Thanks man @kalvano

can I get it too?

yezzir

Thanks so much!

[JXander]

I'll PM him JXander, I'll fwd you the reply if I get one.

Thanks man @kalvano

Thank you!

[chem!]

What kind of job offers, salary, etc can someone who actually does place top 10% at SMU expect? And when you say top 10%, is that basically just based on 1L grades? I'm under the impression that a great deal of job offers come from 2L summer employment, which is based off just that one year of grades. So is it uber-important to place top 10% in the first year, then less important 2nd and 3rd years? (I'm also under the impression that if you don't have a job offer by the start of 3L you are practically doomed to a life of doc review. Is that more or less right?)

Unless you suck at interviewing, you're looking at your pick of firms most likely. There are plenty of big-name firms (Akin Gump, Baker Botts) that start at $160K that come to SMU, and there also well-respected but more local firms (Winstead) that have less onerous hours but also pay around $135K or so.

You do the work your second summer, but it's based off your first-year grades.

But doc review is a lot of what you'll do at a large firm, so being "doomed to doc review" cuts both ways. In fact, doc review is a massive chunk of what you will do your entire career as an attorney.

Do you know how OCI works for PT students since it takes 3 semesters to complete the 1L classes? Thanks for all your helpfulness, by the way.

[tfer2222]

What kind of job offers, salary, etc can someone who actually does place top 10% at SMU expect? And when you say top 10%, is that basically just based on 1L grades? I'm under the impression that a great deal of job offers come from 2L summer employment, which is based off just that one year of grades. So is it uber-important to place top 10% in the first year, then less important 2nd and 3rd years? (I'm also under the impression that if you don't have a job offer by the start of 3L you are practically doomed to a life of doc review. Is that more or less right?)

Unless you suck at interviewing, you're looking at your pick of firms most likely. There are plenty of big-name firms (Akin Gump, Baker Botts) that start at $160K that come to SMU, and there also well-respected but more local firms (Winstead) that have less onerous hours but also pay around $135K or so.

You do the work your second summer, but it's based off your first-year grades.

But doc review is a lot of what you'll do at a large firm, so being "doomed to doc review" cuts both ways. In fact, doc review is a massive chunk of what you will do your entire career as an attorney.

Do you know how OCI works for PT students since it takes 3 semesters to complete the 1L classes? Thanks for all your helpfulness, by the way.

They just do OCI the fall of their 3rd year.

[tfer2222]

Can anyone speak to firms in Dallas that try to specifically recruit minorities either as summer associates or 1 year associates? I don't know how much truth this holds but I've been told that some firms try to diversify their associates a bit. Any truth to this? And if so, to what extent?

I am also interested in this in the Dallas context.

Haynes and Boone has some 1L diversity scholars every year. I think Fulbright does too. They've picked up a few SMU URMs over the last couple of years.

[JXander]

Can anyone speak to firms in Dallas that try to specifically recruit minorities either as summer associates or 1 year associates? I don't know how much truth this holds but I've been told that some firms try to diversify their associates a bit. Any truth to this? And if so, to what extent?

I am also interested in this in the Dallas context.

Haynes and Boone has some 1L diversity scholars every year. I think Fulbright does too. They've picked up a few SMU URMs over the last couple of years.

I thought Fulbright stayed away from SMU?

[nouseforaname123]

I can comment on the URM and recruiting questions, but would rather do it via PM.

If those of you that are interested don't have questions that reveal personal details about yourselves I'll respond by group PM.

[tfer2222]

Doc review doesn't sound so bad in and of itself, actually. I love to proof-read, and I've done work-related tasks in other jobs that sound similar to doc review. However, I hear that the temporary kind can be a quick career-killer. So the more local firms really do have less onerous hours? I wonder if grads with families ever choose a lower-paying job over a higher-paying one just for better "work/life" balance.

On a side-note, I went to the Dallas area of the Baker Botts website to look through their associate profiles. Tons of associates but very, very few SMU grads. :/ Is the turn-over just that quick or do they only pluck, like, one associate per year from SMU?

BB only takes maybe 1-2 SMU SA's each year. I think last summer there were 3, one of whom had worked as a 1L the summer before. Most of the Vault firms only keep a couple of SMU spots each year. Weil & GDC tend to be the pickiest grade-wise.

With top 10% + LR, you'll get basically every interview you want via preselect OCI, so you won't need to use all of your bids. You can count on anywhere from 20-30 interviews, depending on how many bids you use. Getting the callbacks and offers depends on your personality, but it really isn't hard to pick up several offers.

[tfer2222]

Can anyone speak to firms in Dallas that try to specifically recruit minorities either as summer associates or 1 year associates? I don't know how much truth this holds but I've been told that some firms try to diversify their associates a bit. Any truth to this? And if so, to what extent?

I am also interested in this in the Dallas context.

Haynes and Boone has some 1L diversity scholars every year. I think Fulbright does too. They've picked up a few SMU URMs over the last couple of years.

I thought Fulbright stayed away from SMU?

uhh not to my knowledge. i know 2 SMU students going there next fall. (non-URM)

[nouseforaname123]

What kind of job offers, salary, etc can someone who actually does place top 10% at SMU expect? And when you say top 10%, is that basically just based on 1L grades? I'm under the impression that a great deal of job offers come from 2L summer employment, which is based off just that one year of grades. So is it uber-important to place top 10% in the first year, then less important 2nd and 3rd years? (I'm also under the impression that if you don't have a job offer by the start of 3L you are practically doomed to a life of doc review. Is that more or less right?)

Unless you suck at interviewing, you're looking at your pick of firms most likely. There are plenty of big-name firms (Akin Gump, Baker Botts) that start at $160K that come to SMU, and there also well-respected but more local firms (Winstead) that have less onerous hours but also pay around $135K or so.

You do the work your second summer, but it's based off your first-year grades.

But doc review is a lot of what you'll do at a large firm, so being "doomed to doc review" cuts both ways. In fact, doc review is a massive chunk of what you will do your entire career as an attorney.

Do you know how OCI works for PT students since it takes 3 semesters to complete the 1L classes? Thanks for all your helpfulness, by the way.

PT student here. The only difference is that you go through OCI after four semesters (after your 2E year). Everything else is exactly the same.

ETA: Really, the best way to think of the part-time program is as if you started a year earlier than your FT counterparts. You'll go through OCI and be eligible for Law Review on the same timetable as the FT students in your graduating class.

[chem!]

What kind of job offers, salary, etc can someone who actually does place top 10% at SMU expect? And when you say top 10%, is that basically just based on 1L grades? I'm under the impression that a great deal of job offers come from 2L summer employment, which is based off just that one year of grades. So is it uber-important to place top 10% in the first year, then less important 2nd and 3rd years? (I'm also under the impression that if you don't have a job offer by the start of 3L you are practically doomed to a life of doc review. Is that more or less right?)

Unless you suck at interviewing, you're looking at your pick of firms most likely. There are plenty of big-name firms (Akin Gump, Baker Botts) that start at $160K that come to SMU, and there also well-respected but more local firms (Winstead) that have less onerous hours but also pay around $135K or so.

You do the work your second summer, but it's based off your first-year grades.

But doc review is a lot of what you'll do at a large firm, so being "doomed to doc review" cuts both ways. In fact, doc review is a massive chunk of what you will do your entire career as an attorney.

Do you know how OCI works for PT students since it takes 3 semesters to complete the 1L classes? Thanks for all your helpfulness, by the way.

PT student here. The only difference is that you go through OCI after four semesters (after your 2E year). Everything else is exactly the same.

ETA: Really, the best way to think of the part-time program is as if you started a year earlier than your FT counterparts. You'll go through OCI and be eligible for Law Review on the same timetable as the FT students in your graduating class.

Thank you very much.

[Magnoliab1071]

Also, can anyone give me feedback on living in The Hill at The Village?

I have some friends who live over there and they all enjoy it. You are close to campus (5-10 minutes) and have access to a massive park and a country club that is across the street. It is cheap compared to your other options around SMU. Anything in Highland Park or Uptown is going to be heavy financially.

Thanks. I have to rent a three-bedroom (myself, spouse, and three kids) and The Hill is about the cheapest I can find in the area. Once cost of gas and inconvenience is factored in, it doesn't make much sense to live up in Plano or other northern areas, despite the rent difference. And the Village seems like it has a whole lot of amenities. It's pretty old, though... Built in the 70's. And no elevator to the second floor, which is where the apartment I'm looking at is located.

I live at The Hill. The age isn't too big of a problem. Some units have really nice upgrades (wood blinds, wood floors). Mine doesn't, but it has fresh paint and clean carpets, so it's still pretty nice. The problem with the age is energy efficiency, so plan for your electric bill to be about $100 higher per month. Really, except for the frat boys who live downstairs, I love it. And the park and country club are really nice.

[wannabelawstudent]

My roommate just told me my acceptance package came, does anyone know if scholly information comes with it or does it come later...I might have to leave work early for this