Arizona c/o 2016 Forum

[mewalke1]

My brother lives in in the north east area of tucson and its pretty nice. Right off the exit to UofA is pretty ghetto though. There is a park right of the exit and my brother is always making fun of the crap that goes on there. He works for the FBI and says it a cesspool.

[glaciate]

Checking in with a question. I deposited, but I am still a little on the fence. I am from the Midwest, and I am used to colder weather. Obviously Arizona will be a welcome change for the most part, but I am a little concerned about the weather in the summer. How unbearable is the heat? I can (and have) read climate data online, but that doesn't really explain to me how the non-humid heat in Arizona feels compared to humid Midwest summers. Any insight from anyone with experience on this would be much appreciated!

[keviiiiiiiiiiiin]

Checking in with a question. I deposited, but I am still a little on the fence. I am from the Midwest, and I am used to colder weather. Obviously Arizona will be a welcome change for the most part, but I am a little concerned about the weather in the summer. How unbearable is the heat? I can (and have) read climate data online, but that doesn't really explain to me how the non-humid heat in Arizona feels compared to humid Midwest summers. Any insight from anyone with experience on this would be much appreciated!

90 and humid is way worse than 110 here. My wife grew up in Minnesota and she prefers the heat to the long, dark winters. That said, it is HOT from June through the first part of September. If you bring a car, make sure it has good AC. Also, when it's not summer, 60-70s and sunny is the norm. I think it more than makes up for it.

*disclaimer* I'm in Phoenix, which is supposed to be 5-10 warmer than Tucson.

[elcee1987]

Checking in with a question. I deposited, but I am still a little on the fence. I am from the Midwest, and I am used to colder weather. Obviously Arizona will be a welcome change for the most part, but I am a little concerned about the weather in the summer. How unbearable is the heat? I can (and have) read climate data online, but that doesn't really explain to me how the non-humid heat in Arizona feels compared to humid Midwest summers. Any insight from anyone with experience on this would be much appreciated!

I was worried about the weather too, coming from Washington, and currently stuck in the coldest part of Idaho (really, the country). But what I'm learning is that basically June/July is pretty hot and everyone stays indoors for the most part, and then the monsoon season peaks in August, so that cools things down a smidge with some humidity. Then the weather rises a bit through mid-September. Personally, if it's really awful, I'll just take an internship or something in the Northwest during summer. The mid 60s-70s weather the other 10 months is really worth it for me.

[lever1je]

AZ's legal economy and the odds of finding a job here (vs. elsewhere)

As I'm sure you know, this past year's grads had (what appears to be) less luck finding FT-LT-BR jobs, going from 73% in 2011 to 66% in 2012. Are there any worries there that this could be a sign of what's to come in the future, or is the assumption that it was just a fluke from what's normal?

[Greatest,Ever]

As I'm sure you know, this past year's grads had (what appears to be) less luck finding FT-LT-BR jobs, going from 73% in 2011 to 66% in 2012. Are there any worries there that this could be a sign of what's to come in the future, or is the assumption that it was just a fluke from what's normal?

That's actually a great question. I was not pleased when I saw that, for sure. I could not tell you why that gap exists, but it does. But, the percentage of graduates working in firms of 100 or more was 6.3% in 2011 and 12.1% in 2012. I think it is not very determinative a drop in employment score because there's no "downward trend," we have a sample of n=2. You can't make any good predictions off of that. I do think, generally, that decreasing class sizes will only cause increasing employment rates (unless the dumbest people are going to law school). Seriously though, my class has 121 students and if the total number of FT-LT-BR jobs hold up then only 6 people will not be in that category. Those are my thoughts on the matter.

[lever1je]

As I'm sure you know, this past year's grads had (what appears to be) less luck finding FT-LT-BR jobs, going from 73% in 2011 to 66% in 2012. Are there any worries there that this could be a sign of what's to come in the future, or is the assumption that it was just a fluke from what's normal?

That's actually a great question. I was not pleased when I saw that, for sure. I could not tell you why that gap exists, but it does. But, the percentage of graduates working in firms of 100 or more was 6.3% in 2011 and 12.1% in 2012. I think it is not very determinative a drop in employment score because there's no "downward trend," we have a sample of n=2. You can't make any good predictions off of that. I do think, generally, that decreasing class sizes will only cause increasing employment rates (unless the dumbest people are going to law school). Seriously though, my class has 121 students and if the total number of FT-LT-BR jobs hold up then only 6 people will not be in that category. Those are my thoughts on the matter.

Pretty much just mirrored my thoughts on the matter right there which is what made me pick Arizona over everyone else (the full-ride offer helped too haha), just wanted to hear a closer opinion to the matter. I'm definitely interested to see how Phoenix School of Law is gonna place this year after doubling their class size a few years ago; I believe C/O 2013 is the first year where they have their ~400 seat class size, compared to C/O 2012 which had 181 Grads. Coming from Michigan, which has both Cooley and Detroit-Mercy pumping out grads like nobody's business, it's a little concerning to see the potential in moving to another absolutely flooded legal market. I'm sure a U of A degree will be looked upon much higher than a Phoenix degree come time for the job search, but it still concerns me that I will be searching for a job with 200 more hungry lawyers out there than years past.

[mewalke1]

Pretty much just mirrored my thoughts on the matter right there which is what made me pick Arizona over everyone else (the full-ride offer helped too haha), just wanted to hear a closer opinion to the matter. I'm definitely interested to see how Phoenix School of Law is gonna place this year after doubling their class size a few years ago; I believe C/O 2013 is the first year where they have their ~400 seat class size, compared to C/O 2012 which had 181 Grads. Coming from Michigan, which has both Cooley and Detroit-Mercy pumping out grads like nobody's business, it's a little concerning to see the potential in moving to another absolutely flooded legal market. I'm sure a U of A degree will be looked upon much higher than a Phoenix degree come time for the job search, but it still concerns me that I will be searching for a job with 200 more hungry lawyers out there than years past.

Sad fact is most legal markets are over saturated these days. where did you hear Phx was doubling class isze? that is interesting. when I was visiting UofA I was talking to an admission person and they said that 2 years ago their class size was 120 and then the next year it was 200 (it could be reversed). Thats a huge difference.

[lever1je]

Pretty much just mirrored my thoughts on the matter right there which is what made me pick Arizona over everyone else (the full-ride offer helped too haha), just wanted to hear a closer opinion to the matter. I'm definitely interested to see how Phoenix School of Law is gonna place this year after doubling their class size a few years ago; I believe C/O 2013 is the first year where they have their ~400 seat class size, compared to C/O 2012 which had 181 Grads. Coming from Michigan, which has both Cooley and Detroit-Mercy pumping out grads like nobody's business, it's a little concerning to see the potential in moving to another absolutely flooded legal market. I'm sure a U of A degree will be looked upon much higher than a Phoenix degree come time for the job search, but it still concerns me that I will be searching for a job with 200 more hungry lawyers out there than years past.

Sad fact is most legal markets are over saturated these days. where did you hear Phx was doubling class isze? that is interesting. when I was visiting UofA I was talking to an admission person and they said that 2 years ago their class size was 120 and then the next year it was 200 (it could be reversed). Thats a huge difference.

True, every legal market is over-saturated, but obviously some are worse than others right now and will be even worse in the future at the rate graduates are continuing to enter the market. My take on it is this: using last years graduate numbers, there were 1694 graduates from law schools in Michigan without counting U of M since a significant number of those grads leave (Cooley - 1079, Detroit-Mercy - 212, Wayne - 168, MSU - 235). Arizona last year had 542 graduates (212 - ASU, 149 - Arizona, 181 - Phoenix). Neither Detroit or Phoenix is a significant legal market and differences in the population are not big enough for such a substantial difference in the graduate numbers. Simply put, the ratio of new grads : population is terrible in Michigan and it's legal market is not in any shape to handle it.

When you look at employment numbers, Cooley and Detroit-Mercy are terrible. It's hard to get your grads jobs when you're pumping out 1,000 grads a year. My concern comes in that 25% of these Cooley grads are finding these legal jobs (albeit probably undesirable ones) meaning that it is in some ways taking away from the slightly better schools in the area. MSU grads who weren't top 5% are probably submitting their resumes in the same places these Cooley grads are, with MSU and Cooley's main campus both being in Lansing. The same thing is happening in Detroit with Detroit-Mercy and Wayne. Competitiveness is absolutely ridiculous in Michigan, even experienced lawyers are booking it to Texas in numbers (used to talk with the lawyers at a courthouse I interned at who told me too many stories, and it was always Texas for some reason), so that's my rationale for leaving. Sorry for getting off-topic there, but it really shows how much better Arizona is right now than Michigan or other similar states.

Anyways, I got the Phoenix numbers from LST. New grads under the jobs portion just released, enrollment numbers from the key stats portion and affirmed by the ABAs stats on the school. Unless the school has ~60% dropout rate, then it looks like class size must've just recently doubled for C/O 2013. I see what Cooley and Detroit-Mercy are doing to the market here and it's just terrible, so hopefully this incoming class at Phoenix is cut big time by this bad cycle.

[elcee1987]

Well, worst comes to worst in Arizona, you can take the bar exam early as a 3rd year if we're lucky, and get a leg up on the competition. But I agree, the competition of Cooley/D-M was actually one factor for me in choosing Arizona over Michigan.

[eryj]

Checking in with a question. I deposited, but I am still a little on the fence. I am from the Midwest, and I am used to colder weather. Obviously Arizona will be a welcome change for the most part, but I am a little concerned about the weather in the summer. How unbearable is the heat? I can (and have) read climate data online, but that doesn't really explain to me how the non-humid heat in Arizona feels compared to humid Midwest summers. Any insight from anyone with experience on this would be much appreciated!

I've lived in the Phoenix area my whole life, except 2 yrs in Illinois and 2 yrs in Idaho, and yes, the summers are CRAZY hot . . . BUT, like somebody else pointed out, Tucson is 5-10 degrees COOLER than Phoenix. Also, you just learn to adapt. Tucson is a great place, and I'd probably prefer the dry Tucson heat over the muggy midwest heat any day. Ironically, I'm choosing to move from the Phoenix area to the midwest, to attend the University of Iowa - a purely financial/ranking decision, though, and nothing to do with the weather.

[owlie]

Has anyone been able to negotiate up their scholarship offer?

[762]

Current 2L here. I negotiated mine up before I enrolled. Give it a shot.

[elcee1987]

We have a facebook group for entering 1Ls, come join: https://www.facebook.com/groups/339511359503901/

[RubyCopper]

So what kind of scores do the people that got full rides have? I graduated from UC Berkeley, 3.69/162

Are my scores too low? Or did I apply too late to get that kind of $$ (February)?

[owlie]

So what kind of scores do the people that got full rides have? I graduated from UC Berkeley, 3.69/162

Are my scores too low? Or did I apply too late to get that kind of $$ (February)?

http://arizona.lawschoolnumbers.com/applicants

[tow13]

Withdrew today. Hopefully that opens some spots for others. Best of Luck all.

[vrmsoccer]

So what kind of scores do the people that got full rides have? I graduated from UC Berkeley, 3.69/162

Are my scores too low? Or did I apply too late to get that kind of $$ (February)?

I got one with a 3.5 169 and applying in early December.

[kitty1990]

So I'm having a hard time getting ahold of the financial aid office. I've called the main finaid office at UofA, they referred me to Aleysha who is out of office. And I also tried Ali with no response. Does anyone know how and when we get our financial aid. I made my email and UA Access, now I want to accept and move forward with everything.

[pwv2913]

I recently was admitted off the waitlist, 3.0 162, and then had my resident tuition locked in at 12k via scholarship. Pretty happy with the results, I believe I will be attending in the Fall.

[keviiiiiiiiiiiin]

Does anyone know if U of A gives more than full rides?

[buddyt]

Does anyone know if U of A gives more than full rides?

Doesn't definitively answer your question, but FWIW in my full ride letter it said it was the highest award they offer.

[lever1je]

Does anyone know if U of A gives more than full rides?

Doesn't definitively answer your question, but FWIW in my full ride letter it said it was the highest award they offer.

This. But I did notice that their recently released ABA data report they listed 5 people in the school as having "more than full tuition" scholarships. Whether this means that they at one time gave out stipends or that these students initially had full-rides and then earned additional scholarships through the school at a later point, I'm unsure. Either way, the rarity of this scenario means it's pretty unlikely that you will be able to get more than full.

[pruufreadr]

Late admit. I talked to a lady at a lovely meth-friendly complex who can get me a place, but if anyone still needs a roommate...

[pruufreadr]

I'm about to sign a lease at a campground instead. Come visit me and I'll roast you some marshmallows. Bring your own chocolate and crackers.