Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

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wcphillies12
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby wcphillies12 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:27 pm

magp90 wrote:
nick417 wrote:Nice! I don't have a full scholarship, but I am pretty close to a full scholarship. I prepared my letter last night requesting more scholarship $$$. All you full scholarship people, keep dropping out haha.

The ranking are a concern, but I am still leaning toward Drexel. I have a job pretty much lined up after law school so the price of school is more important to me versus rankings. Also, I want to stay in Philly and I like University City much more than Temple and North Philly.

As for the Stip's, I talked to the Financial Aid Office and she did say its 50% of people maintain the scholarship. They curve it so the 2.95 GPA is the median grade.


Yeah, that's my point. It's somewhat difficult to predict how the first year will go academically, so just be sure that you would still think Drexel is worth it in the event that you were in the 50% of students who lost the scholarship.


Looking at their scholarship retention data online and it's not quite 50% of students who lose their scholarship. For 2011, 36% of students with scholarships lost theirs. I think to maintain the scholarship you need to stay in the top 50% of the class. If I enrolled in Drexel, I'd have the mentality that if I lost my scholarship, I'd probably drop out. Being in the bottom 50% of Drexel's class probably doesn't bode well for employment opportunities anyway.

BluntLawGirl
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby BluntLawGirl » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:05 am

You shouldn't worry too much about scholarship retention. Yes, people are going to lose scholarships. But if you don't crack the top 50% at Drexel and you really put 110% effort in, you should probably not be in law school. If you are willing to work hard and take every opportunity that arises, Drexel can be as good a school as Rutgers, Nova, Widener. Temple has a good alumni base in Philly which definitely makes job prospects better coming from there. That said, full-ride at Drexel v. no money at Temple, I'd take Drexel every time. Penn is a whole different universe, and if you can get in there I'd question what you were doing on this thread.

The scholarship retention stats don't break it down by amount of scholarship which is something to take into consideration. Someone with a full-ride is going to haul a little more ass come exam time than someone with 5K a year, depending on how much they need the money of course. Although there are no stats, I'd be willing to bet that 90% of those with full-rides will keep them. Could be even higher than that. Law students don't discuss grades, but people who I know are not in jeopardy also happen to be people who attended all classes, paid attention and took notes, PREPARED for class, went to deans scholars, and reviewed material throughout the semester. I'm sure there are outliers, but what I'm saying is this: IF you are going to work your ass off, you should be fine.

WANT TO KEEP YOUR SCHOLARSHIP??
You should be talking to current students from the day you show up about what it takes to do well. And then do it.

About the rankings: SUCKS. Although last year we were tied with 7 schools for 119(might be off). It seems like a significant drop, but it really wasn't much. This school is still on the rise. The faculty are fantastic. The great thing about a school with something to prove is that there is truly a vested interest in your success. You will see this in (almost) everyone you meet at Drexel. There is a sense of community, and people really try to help each other for the most part. Turning down a full-ride to Drexel for sticker price at a T2 school is a mistake IMO.

Lumieres
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby Lumieres » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:38 am

Has anyone tried to negotiate their scholly yet?

I got close to full, but not full. Didn't even realize their tuition was 40k a year...

nick417
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby nick417 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:30 am

Lumieres wrote:Has anyone tried to negotiate their scholly yet?

I got close to full, but not full. Didn't even realize their tuition was 40k a year...


Yep, sent an email to the admissions office requesting more scholarship money and was approved for extra scholarship $$$.

nick417
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby nick417 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:37 am

BluntLawGirl wrote:You shouldn't worry too much about scholarship retention. Yes, people are going to lose scholarships. But if you don't crack the top 50% at Drexel and you really put 110% effort in, you should probably not be in law school. If you are willing to work hard and take every opportunity that arises, Drexel can be as good a school as Rutgers, Nova, Widener. Temple has a good alumni base in Philly which definitely makes job prospects better coming from there. That said, full-ride at Drexel v. no money at Temple, I'd take Drexel every time. Penn is a whole different universe, and if you can get in there I'd question what you were doing on this thread.

The scholarship retention stats don't break it down by amount of scholarship which is something to take into consideration. Someone with a full-ride is going to haul a little more ass come exam time than someone with 5K a year, depending on how much they need the money of course. Although there are no stats, I'd be willing to bet that 90% of those with full-rides will keep them. Could be even higher than that. Law students don't discuss grades, but people who I know are not in jeopardy also happen to be people who attended all classes, paid attention and took notes, PREPARED for class, went to deans scholars, and reviewed material throughout the semester. I'm sure there are outliers, but what I'm saying is this: IF you are going to work your ass off, you should be fine.

WANT TO KEEP YOUR SCHOLARSHIP??
You should be talking to current students from the day you show up about what it takes to do well. And then do it.

About the rankings: SUCKS. Although last year we were tied with 7 schools for 119(might be off). It seems like a significant drop, but it really wasn't much. This school is still on the rise. The faculty are fantastic. The great thing about a school with something to prove is that there is truly a vested interest in your success. You will see this in (almost) everyone you meet at Drexel. There is a sense of community, and people really try to help each other for the most part. Turning down a full-ride to Drexel for sticker price at a T2 school is a mistake IMO.


Very good points. That is my take about the retention policy.

As for the rankings, my thinking is since Drexel is such a good school in every other aspect (undergrad programs, business school, etc.) its not unrealistic to believe the law school will soon gain respect. At Admitted Students Day, it is obvious that Drexel is trying. I think Drexel has good ideas that other schools are not doing. The issue is job placement. If Drexel can find a spot, and start placing law graduates with jobs, they will start to move up quickly.

BluntLawGirl
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby BluntLawGirl » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:31 pm

I totally agree that job placement is the main issue keeping us from rising in the rankings. This is mainly because Penn is pumping out so many students a year and they're snatching up all the jobs. My advice for jobs would be the same though regardless of what school you go to (assuming it's not Tier 1). Work your ass off to be at the top of your class come recruitment time. Law school is not impossible, it's just extremely hard. Network like crazy. Meet lawyers and keep in touch with them. But mostly, think about exams and grades from day one of orientation. And then do everything you have to do to get to the finish line. If you do all of those things, it doesn't really matter that Drexel's ranking isn't great. Drexel will do everything they can to help you along the way, and your support system will be unbelievable from the faculty, staff, and older students.

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magp90
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby magp90 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:12 pm

Just received an unsolicited email awarded me the same full-ride that I got with my acceptance letter except that they removed all stipulations. (Technically I have to have good academic standing, but I would no longer have to maintain the median GPA)...

Maybe it's the drop in rankings that spurred this? I'm probably still going to withdraw, but I guess they're getting more desperate.
Last edited by magp90 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Greyhound42
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby Greyhound42 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:14 pm

magp90 wrote:Just received an unsolicited email awarded me the same full-ride that I got with my acceptance letter except that they removed all stipulations. (Technically I have to have good academic standing, but I would no longer have to maintain the median GPA)...

Maybe it's drop in rankings that spurred this? I'm probably still going to withdraw, but I guess they're getting more desperate.


Hmmm... one of the admissions officers I spoke to on the phone a few weeks ago flat-out told me that they cannot negotiate away the stipulations for anybody. Interesting.

Lumieres
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby Lumieres » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:23 pm

Greyhound42 wrote:
magp90 wrote:Just received an unsolicited email awarded me the same full-ride that I got with my acceptance letter except that they removed all stipulations. (Technically I have to have good academic standing, but I would no longer have to maintain the median GPA)...

Maybe it's drop in rankings that spurred this? I'm probably still going to withdraw, but I guess they're getting more desperate.


Hmmm... one of the admissions officers I spoke to on the phone a few weeks ago flat-out told me that they cannot negotiate away the stipulations for anybody. Interesting.


Magp90 is not just "anybody"...

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magp90
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby magp90 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:32 pm

Greyhound42 wrote:
magp90 wrote:Just received an unsolicited email awarded me the same full-ride that I got with my acceptance letter except that they removed all stipulations. (Technically I have to have good academic standing, but I would no longer have to maintain the median GPA)...

Maybe it's drop in rankings that spurred this? I'm probably still going to withdraw, but I guess they're getting more desperate.


Hmmm... one of the admissions officers I spoke to on the phone a few weeks ago flat-out told me that they cannot negotiate away the stipulations for anybody. Interesting.


I have no idea. I did not negotiate, in fact, there has been no communication between me and the admissions office whatsoever since my acceptance in December. Maybe they aren't doing as well as they hoped this season and they'll be more willing to drop the stips as it gets a little later in the cycle?

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Greyhound42
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby Greyhound42 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:42 pm

Yeah I'm not sure... that's a little irritating though. I emailed admissions and told them simply that I appreciated the scholarship but couldn't attend with the stipulation (which is a little ridiculous), and they responded with a phone call. The woman I spoke to made it explicit that the stips were decided on by the faculty and because of this were non-negotiable.
Oh well, I already withdrew earlier this week anyway.

nick417
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby nick417 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:55 pm

Greyhound42 wrote:Yeah I'm not sure... that's a little irritating though. I emailed admissions and told them simply that I appreciated the scholarship but couldn't attend with the stipulation (which is a little ridiculous), and they responded with a phone call. The woman I spoke to made it explicit that the stips were decided on by the faculty and because of this were non-negotiable.
Oh well, I already withdrew earlier this week anyway.


Every school uses stipulations on scholarships (at least everyone I have been accepted at). So I'm not sure they are "ridiculous". Honestly, think about it, if you are below the 50% mark in the class, you should be dropping out anyway(regardless of which school you are going to). If you can't handle being in the top 50% at Drexel, how do you think you are going to fare at better schools such as Temple with even harder competition? That is the way I am looking at the stipulations. At Drexel, my LSAT scores and GPA indicate I am in the top 25% "smarts" wise compared to other admitted students. If I apply myself, I will easily maintain the scholarship.

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Greyhound42
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby Greyhound42 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:05 pm

nick417 wrote:
Greyhound42 wrote:Yeah I'm not sure... that's a little irritating though. I emailed admissions and told them simply that I appreciated the scholarship but couldn't attend with the stipulation (which is a little ridiculous), and they responded with a phone call. The woman I spoke to made it explicit that the stips were decided on by the faculty and because of this were non-negotiable.
Oh well, I already withdrew earlier this week anyway.


Every school uses stipulations on scholarships (at least everyone I have been accepted at). So I'm not sure they are "ridiculous". Honestly, think about it, if you are below the 50% mark in the class, you should be dropping out anyway(regardless of which school you are going to). If you can't handle being in the top 50% at Drexel, how do you think you are going to fare at better schools such as Temple with even harder competition? That is the way I am looking at the stipulations. At Drexel, my LSAT scores and GPA indicate I am in the top 25% "smarts" wise compared to other admitted students. If I apply myself, I will easily maintain the scholarship.


For clarification, I was talking about Drexel's stipulations, not stipulations in general. What percentage of students keep their scholarships, about 50%? That reeks of section stacking.

And while it'd be nice to think "oh if I just work hard I can definitely make it!" but conventional wisdom, at least from what I've seen, has shown that it's ludicrous to rely on past academic performance as reliance of continued academic success in law school. Am I fairly certain that if I work my hardest I can do very well? Of course -- I wouldn't be going to law school if I wasn't confident. Problem is, everyone else who was given a scholarship is just as confident. Why would I be the special snowflake of the bunch? 50% of those students are flat-out wrong. I'm not about to make a $100,000 bet (~about 2 years of tuition at sticker, which is what's at stake) based on those odds.

It's also noteworthy that the only schools that engage in these stipulations are the ones that have very poor employment prospects. It's probably not a coincidence.

Anyway, I'm probably a little too off-topic so I'll stop, just wanted to explain my reasoning.

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Greyhound42
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby Greyhound42 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:08 pm

oh, but re:
nick417 wrote:
Every school uses stipulations on scholarships (at least everyone I have been accepted at).


Schools generally use stipulations, yes, but there's a big difference between "Good Academic Standing" where 2% of scholarship recipients lose their scholarship, which seems to be the norm at most schools, and Drexel's (and I guess a select few other schools that place similarly) policies.

phlmar
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby phlmar » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:15 pm

As an FYI Drexel emailed me today to change my scholarship offer from 2.95 stip to good standing stip (unsolicited).

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wingedwolf
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby wingedwolf » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:32 pm

I received the same email removing the stip of 2.95 to "in good academic standing". (edit: unsolicited)

heffrey
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby heffrey » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:44 pm

Speaking of employment and rankings and such, anyone know when the class of 2012 employment outcomes will be released? 2011 is here: http://earlemacklaw.drexel.edu/career/statistics/

Will be interesting to see how employment outcomes have changed over the years.

nick417
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby nick417 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:51 pm

Greyhound42 wrote:
nick417 wrote:
Greyhound42 wrote:Yeah I'm not sure... that's a little irritating though. I emailed admissions and told them simply that I appreciated the scholarship but couldn't attend with the stipulation (which is a little ridiculous), and they responded with a phone call. The woman I spoke to made it explicit that the stips were decided on by the faculty and because of this were non-negotiable.
Oh well, I already withdrew earlier this week anyway.


Every school uses stipulations on scholarships (at least everyone I have been accepted at). So I'm not sure they are "ridiculous". Honestly, think about it, if you are below the 50% mark in the class, you should be dropping out anyway(regardless of which school you are going to). If you can't handle being in the top 50% at Drexel, how do you think you are going to fare at better schools such as Temple with even harder competition? That is the way I am looking at the stipulations. At Drexel, my LSAT scores and GPA indicate I am in the top 25% "smarts" wise compared to other admitted students. If I apply myself, I will easily maintain the scholarship.


For clarification, I was talking about Drexel's stipulations, not stipulations in general. What percentage of students keep their scholarships, about 50%? That reeks of section stacking.

And while it'd be nice to think "oh if I just work hard I can definitely make it!" but conventional wisdom, at least from what I've seen, has shown that it's ludicrous to rely on past academic performance as reliance of continued academic success in law school. Am I fairly certain that if I work my hardest I can do very well? Of course -- I wouldn't be going to law school if I wasn't confident. Problem is, everyone else who was given a scholarship is just as confident. Why would I be the special snowflake of the bunch? 50% of those students are flat-out wrong. I'm not about to make a $100,000 bet (~about 2 years of tuition at sticker, which is what's at stake) based on those odds.

It's also noteworthy that the only schools that engage in these stipulations are the ones that have very poor employment prospects. It's probably not a coincidence.

Anyway, I'm probably a little too off-topic so I'll stop, just wanted to explain my reasoning.



I get your point. When you look at scholarship retention (at Drexel at least) they don't provide data on who keeps the scholarships. Logic would dictate that students who receive less $$$ have lower GPAs and lower LSAT scores and thus would be considered less talented law students. My assumption is the % of students with higher scholarship amounts are better students and probably keep there scholarships at a better rate than 50%

Interesting to see that Drexel is handing out these no stipulation scholarships. I just recently had my scholarship increased to almost full scholarship. Maybe if I wait a little longer I can get a full scholarship with no stips. I would be sitting pretty with zero debt at graduation and a job lined up already!

BluntLawGirl
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby BluntLawGirl » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:28 pm

Greyhound42 wrote:
For clarification, I was talking about Drexel's stipulations, not stipulations in general. What percentage of students keep their scholarships, about 50%? That reeks of section stacking.

And while it'd be nice to think "oh if I just work hard I can definitely make it!" but conventional wisdom, at least from what I've seen, has shown that it's ludicrous to rely on past academic performance as reliance of continued academic success in law school. Am I fairly certain that if I work my hardest I can do very well? Of course -- I wouldn't be going to law school if I wasn't confident. Problem is, everyone else who was given a scholarship is just as confident. Why would I be the special snowflake of the bunch? 50% of those students are flat-out wrong. I'm not about to make a $100,000 bet (~about 2 years of tuition at sticker, which is what's at stake) based on those odds.

It's also noteworthy that the only schools that engage in these stipulations are the ones that have very poor employment prospects. It's probably not a coincidence.

Anyway, I'm probably a little too off-topic so I'll stop, just wanted to explain my reasoning.


There's no section stacking at Drexel. The reason so many people lose scholarships is because about 90% of students are given scholarships of varying amounts. I believe about 40% lose scholarships, which makes sense with the median. That's interesting they're removing the stips. Everyone is confident they will do well coming into law school, but that doesn't mean that past academic success has no bearing on how you will perform. Not everyone works as hard as they think they are going to. It's logical to think of it how Nick is, using his numbers with respect to the class for where he stands. Although you could argue that some have lower LSATs because they're bad at taking standardized tests, test-taking ability is probably the number one attribute of law school success. The rest is your level of determination and how much work you're willing to put into it. You'll be surprised (wherever you go) at how many people just don't want to do the work.

About schools with stips: the ones without simply do not need them. They have a steady flow of income from alums and have better employment prospects because they have long-standing reputations...these are generally much harder to get into, and less likely to give you the amount Drexel is going to.

wcphillies12
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby wcphillies12 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:51 pm

Just negotiated with the admissions committee to give me more $$ and it worked. I'll only be paying a small, small chunk of change to attend, granted I keep the scholarship. I'm going in with this mindset though, stipulations or not, nobody should be content with being in the bottom 50% of the class. I'm not going to further negotiate the stipulation; if anything, it is there to remind me that I cannot be in that bottom half.

SoJerz13
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby SoJerz13 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:02 pm

It seems as though negotiations have worked for everyone. I've had my scholarship increased twice from Drexel, and am considering even asking for more right before the deposit is due. The worst they can say is no.

Lumieres
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby Lumieres » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:12 pm

SoJerz13 wrote:It seems as though negotiations have worked for everyone. I've had my scholarship increased twice from Drexel, and am considering even asking for more right before the deposit is due. The worst they can say is no.


Don't you need a better offer from a peer school in order to negotiate? Which school gave you a better offer?

SoJerz13
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby SoJerz13 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:21 pm

Lumieres wrote:
SoJerz13 wrote:It seems as though negotiations have worked for everyone. I've had my scholarship increased twice from Drexel, and am considering even asking for more right before the deposit is due. The worst they can say is no.


Don't you need a better offer from a peer school in order to negotiate? Which school gave you a better offer?


I've had good offers from a few schools that I've used so far. I'm still waiting on a couple schools as well.

csexton182
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby csexton182 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:19 pm

Same here. I've gotten an offer from Baylor Law with $$$ and a much smaller stipulation. As much as I would enjoy working in that area, however, I think I would enjoy Philly more. I've also got family out in Texas as well, and my COL would be virtually nothing. So overall, I think the costs would be about the same which is making this a really tough decision for me.

jschro818
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Re: Drexel c/o 2016 (2012-2013)

Postby jschro818 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:09 pm

For those of you who negotiated their scholarships, what did you mention in your letters to Drexel admissions? That you would love to attend Drexel, but have received higher scholarships elsewhere, therefore can they increase yours?




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