WUSTL c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

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JayJones78
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby JayJones78 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:31 pm

timeandspace11 wrote:
shifty_eyed wrote:
timeandspace11 wrote:New York is definitely rough with rent, but isnt it possible to find something "relatively" affordable in Brooklyn if you have roommates? I understand a studio apartment or a 1 bedroom is out of the question, but roommates may drive the cost down

I think you also have to consider quality of life. If you are paying the same to live with 3 roommates in Brooklyn as you would be to live alone within walking distance to school, some might choose the lower COL school. Of course, there are those who LOVE the NYC experience and may find it worth it.



Thats true. I think that is why NYC is so expensive. Even middle class people are willing to spend a lot to enjoy all the city has to offer. Nothing wrong with that.


My issue is that as a law student, can you REALLY enjoy all the city has to offer? Or are you paying 2.5K to live in a cube sized studio in Manhatten or a slightly bigger cube in Brooklyn (btw the notion that it's cheaper doesn't really stand anymore) just to be in school all day and spend the rest of the time studying in the library or sbux

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timeandspace11
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby timeandspace11 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:40 pm

JayJones78 wrote:
timeandspace11 wrote:
shifty_eyed wrote:
timeandspace11 wrote:New York is definitely rough with rent, but isnt it possible to find something "relatively" affordable in Brooklyn if you have roommates? I understand a studio apartment or a 1 bedroom is out of the question, but roommates may drive the cost down

I think you also have to consider quality of life. If you are paying the same to live with 3 roommates in Brooklyn as you would be to live alone within walking distance to school, some might choose the lower COL school. Of course, there are those who LOVE the NYC experience and may find it worth it.



Thats true. I think that is why NYC is so expensive. Even middle class people are willing to spend a lot to enjoy all the city has to offer. Nothing wrong with that.


My issue is that as a law student, can you REALLY enjoy all the city has to offer? Or are you paying 2.5K to live in a cube sized studio in Manhatten or a slightly bigger cube in Brooklyn (btw the notion that it's cheaper doesn't really stand anymore) just to be in school all day and spend the rest of the time studying in the library or sbux



I understand. I was thinking of applying to Fordham but it just didnt seem worth it. Even though they seem to be giving out more scholarship money this year it still does not justify the cost. Really expensive cost of living and mediocre employment statistics just scared me too much. I would love to live in NYC but the circumstances have to be right.

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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby shntn » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:46 pm

dproduct wrote:
goldeneye wrote:I got off the WL at Fordham last year. No scholly money that late. No thank you. COA was near 70k at that rate. I'll take STL cost of living and scholly at WUSTL.

the less you spend in law school, in theory, the more flexible you can be in looking for legal jobs.


Something that is not stated quite enough on this website.

Except, pretty consistently, in this thread. Coincidence?

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dproduct
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby dproduct » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:08 pm

shntn wrote:
dproduct wrote:
goldeneye wrote:I got off the WL at Fordham last year. No scholly money that late. No thank you. COA was near 70k at that rate. I'll take STL cost of living and scholly at WUSTL.

the less you spend in law school, in theory, the more flexible you can be in looking for legal jobs.


Something that is not stated quite enough on this website.

Except, pretty consistently, in this thread. Coincidence?


GMTA

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JayJones78
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby JayJones78 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:39 pm

dproduct wrote:
shntn wrote:
dproduct wrote:
goldeneye wrote:I got off the WL at Fordham last year. No scholly money that late. No thank you. COA was near 70k at that rate. I'll take STL cost of living and scholly at WUSTL.

the less you spend in law school, in theory, the more flexible you can be in looking for legal jobs.


Something that is not stated quite enough on this website.

Except, pretty consistently, in this thread. Coincidence?


GMTA


I think that the less you get in scholly the more you need to worry about COL

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Unoriginalist
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby Unoriginalist » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:49 pm

New LSN profile for Wash U: http://washu.lawschoolnumbers.com/

I'm not sure if I'm reading that right, but it looks like its saying the median of LSN profiles is around 3.7 (same as c/o 2015, for the most part) and 165 (-1). Kind of an interesting tidbit there, though I'd guess its impossible to tell how representative that really is.

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Dmini7
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby Dmini7 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:53 pm

Unoriginalist wrote:New LSN profile for Wash U: http://washu.lawschoolnumbers.com/

I'm not sure if I'm reading that right, but it looks like its saying the median of LSN profiles is around 3.7 (same as c/o 2015, for the most part) and 165 (-1). Kind of an interesting tidbit there, though I'd guess its impossible to tell how representative that really is.


Seeing this one change on LSN makes the whole down time and slow response time worth it for me. Also the drop makes me hopeful in getting accepted.

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Xs20
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby Xs20 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:02 pm

Unoriginalist wrote:New LSN profile for Wash U: http://washu.lawschoolnumbers.com/

I'm not sure if I'm reading that right, but it looks like its saying the median of LSN profiles is around 3.7 (same as c/o 2015, for the most part) and 165 (-1). Kind of an interesting tidbit there, though I'd guess its impossible to tell how representative that really is.

I'm confused by this. There's only 201 people in last year's incoming class; no way this year will be 276. And how would LSN even have that data this early on?

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JayJones78
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby JayJones78 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:03 pm

Dmini7 wrote:
Unoriginalist wrote:New LSN profile for Wash U: http://washu.lawschoolnumbers.com/

I'm not sure if I'm reading that right, but it looks like its saying the median of LSN profiles is around 3.7 (same as c/o 2015, for the most part) and 165 (-1). Kind of an interesting tidbit there, though I'd guess its impossible to tell how representative that really is.


Seeing this one change on LSN makes the whole down time and slow response time worth it for me. Also the drop makes me hopeful in getting accepted.


On a different note not happy with its new design. Too much. The older one was so much simpler to navigate.

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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby shntn » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:03 pm

Xs20 wrote:
Unoriginalist wrote:New LSN profile for Wash U: http://washu.lawschoolnumbers.com/

I'm not sure if I'm reading that right, but it looks like its saying the median of LSN profiles is around 3.7 (same as c/o 2015, for the most part) and 165 (-1). Kind of an interesting tidbit there, though I'd guess its impossible to tell how representative that really is.

I'm confused by this. There's only 201 people in last year's incoming class; no way this year will be 276. And how would LSN even have that data this early on?

Must be a typo. LSN straight up KILLING IT these days.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby DoveBodyWash » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:06 pm

Xs20 wrote:
Unoriginalist wrote:New LSN profile for Wash U: http://washu.lawschoolnumbers.com/

I'm not sure if I'm reading that right, but it looks like its saying the median of LSN profiles is around 3.7 (same as c/o 2015, for the most part) and 165 (-1). Kind of an interesting tidbit there, though I'd guess its impossible to tell how representative that really is.

I'm confused by this. There's only 201 people in last year's incoming class; no way this year will be 276. And how would LSN even have that data this early on?


They're probably just predicting. There's no way there are 948 people updating WUSTL acceptances on LSN. And there's no way for them to know how many have matriculated or not. They're either re-using data for Class of 2014 (since 2015 only had 200 matriculants) or they're guessing based on previous yield rates or something. All that said, the make-over is pretty nice

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Unoriginalist
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby Unoriginalist » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:06 pm

Xs20 wrote:
Unoriginalist wrote:New LSN profile for Wash U: http://washu.lawschoolnumbers.com/

I'm not sure if I'm reading that right, but it looks like its saying the median of LSN profiles is around 3.7 (same as c/o 2015, for the most part) and 165 (-1). Kind of an interesting tidbit there, though I'd guess its impossible to tell how representative that really is.

I'm confused by that. There's only 201 people in last year's incoming class; no way this year will be 276. And how would LSN even have that data this early on?


My thinking exactly. There oddly some old info sprinkled in there, it seems. I can't find when Wash U has had a 3.8 median GPA, and it hasn't had a 168 median LSAT for a few years.

It had 276 students for c/o 2013, but not since. I think LSN is still working out kinks, hopefully!

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dproduct
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby dproduct » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:07 pm

I'm checking out LSN right now. WOW. Talk about nailing it.

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Xs20
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby Xs20 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:07 pm

shntn wrote:
Xs20 wrote:
Unoriginalist wrote:New LSN profile for Wash U: http://washu.lawschoolnumbers.com/

I'm not sure if I'm reading that right, but it looks like its saying the median of LSN profiles is around 3.7 (same as c/o 2015, for the most part) and 165 (-1). Kind of an interesting tidbit there, though I'd guess its impossible to tell how representative that really is.

I'm confused by this. There's only 201 people in last year's incoming class; no way this year will be 276. And how would LSN even have that data this early on?

Must be a typo. LSN straight up KILLING IT these days.

Yup, just looked it up. This is the class profile for c/o 2013 (abnormal year for WUSTL in terms of class size).

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Xs20
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby Xs20 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:11 pm

cusenation wrote:
Xs20 wrote:I'm confused by this. There's only 201 people in last year's incoming class; no way this year will be 276. And how would LSN even have that data this early on?


They're probably just predicting. There's no way there are 948 people updating WUSTL acceptances on LSN. And there's no way for them to know how many have matriculated or not. They're either re-using data for Class of 2014 (since 2015 only had 200 matriculants) or they're guessing based on previous yield rates or something. All that said, the make-over is pretty nice

Even if they are, that's some pretty terrible predicting. 37% increase in class size for a cycle where applications are down something like 22%?

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby DoveBodyWash » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:12 pm

Xs20 wrote:
cusenation wrote:
Xs20 wrote:I'm confused by this. There's only 201 people in last year's incoming class; no way this year will be 276. And how would LSN even have that data this early on?


They're probably just predicting. There's no way there are 948 people updating WUSTL acceptances on LSN. And there's no way for them to know how many have matriculated or not. They're either re-using data for Class of 2014 (since 2015 only had 200 matriculants) or they're guessing based on previous yield rates or something. All that said, the make-over is pretty nice

Even if they are, that's some pretty terrible predicting. 37% increase in class size for a cycle where applications are down something like 22%?


Yeah it looks like they're just using some old data...C/O 2013 (Romo's class) currently has over 320 students or something because of the transfers that came into an already large class.

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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby DoveBodyWash » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:33 pm

Also, late response, but re: American

1. a huge school and is apparently expanding
2. Costs a ton, in terms of both tuition and cost of living
3. In probably the most saturated market in the country. Anyone who passes the bar in any of the 50 states can practice in D.C. It's a popular destination for T-14 grads, and it has to compete with GW and GULC, both huge schools themselves.
4. They're not particularly generous with scholarship
5. American's brand-power is pretty limited to D.C.

It's the epitome of a trap school. Lots of students, high cost, poor job placement, saturated market, poor degree portability.

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Unoriginalist
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby Unoriginalist » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:45 pm

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet in this thread, but it may also be worth noting that I believe Wash U is aiming for around 200 students in the c/o 2016, for what that's worth.

For those interested, since the LSN seemed to cause some interest:
Class Profile c/o 2013
Class Profile c/o 2014
Class Profile c/o 2015 (LinkRemoved)


I'm really curious to see what the employment info for the c/o 2012 looks like in the upcoming few weeks (hopefully). I'm not sure if it'll play into my decision at all, but it could do quite a bit to assuage any hesitations I have about WUSTL.

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JayJones78
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby JayJones78 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:48 pm

cusenation wrote:Also, late response, but re: American

1. a huge school and is apparently expanding
2. Costs a ton, in terms of both tuition and cost of living
3. In probably the most saturated market in the country. Anyone who passes the bar in any of the 50 states can practice in D.C. It's a popular destination for T-14 grads, and it has to compete with GW and GULC, both huge schools themselves.
4. They're not particularly generous with scholarship
5. American's brand-power is pretty limited to D.C.

It's the epitome of a trap school. Lots of students, high cost, poor job placement, saturated market, poor degree portability.


Pretty much all the reasons why I (most likely) wont attend.
I'm still baffled how WashU is ranked so similarly to Cardozo on biglaw rank

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Unoriginalist
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby Unoriginalist » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:51 pm

JayJones78 wrote:I'm still baffled how WashU is ranked so similarly to Cardozo on biglaw rank


I don't mean this to troll, as I'm fairly sure that Wash U has had some issues placing its students into Biglaw, but I think there's also a not-insignificant possibility self-selection plays a role in this as well. I would imagine most people who go to school in NYC are aiming for Biglaw, and I'm just not sure how true that rings for a midwestern school in a secondary market. Again, take with a grain of salt, but that might be one of many considerations towards that.

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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby DoveBodyWash » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:56 pm

Unoriginalist wrote:I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet in this thread, but it may also be worth noting that I believe Wash U is aiming for around 200 students in the c/o 2016, for what that's worth.

For those interested, since the LSN seemed to cause some interest:
Class Profile c/o 2013
Class Profile c/o 2014
Class Profile c/o 2015 (LinkRemoved)


I'm really curious to see what the employment info for the c/o 2012 looks like in the upcoming few weeks (hopefully). I'm not sure if it'll play into my decision at all, but it could do quite a bit to assuage any hesitations I have about WUSTL.


Hopefully it's around or less than 200..the slower rate of decisions to me suggests that they're being more careful lest they accidentally have a redux of the C/O 2013 and have a huge class. The whole interview process this year was unprecedented for WUSTL too.

I was at actually visiting WUSTL when last year's NLJ250 data came out..and I remember freaking out and going to Clifford's office to ask what was up with that. 13% was pretty discouraging at the time, at least to me. But placing 42 grads in NLJ250 firms at the height of the recession is actually relatively impressive, considering it's not a T-14 and it has never really been a true BigLaw feeder.

I didn't realize this until recently, but there are a LOT of firms out there..250 may sound like a lot but there are so many firms that didn't make the list. The NLJ actually updated their system so that it includes the biggest 350 firms instead of the biggest 250. Dunno if they'll overhaul the placement stats to account for this. Either way I don't expect WUSTL to clear 20%, it's just never really been a BigLaw feeder...and it's possible that the lower debt-load gives grads the flexibility to pursue things other than BigLaw.

Re: Cardozo. Keep in mind that firms in NYC are just more likely to be "BigLaw" by nature. It doesn't mean that Cardozo is placing students into V50 or V100 firms. Any firm in NYC is going to see inflated costs and revenue. They need to pay higher salaries to account for higher living costs. Clients will pay for higher rates for the same reason. NYC firms also need more associates in general to keep up with the high-volume of transactional work they get.

Also, not all placement is created equal. Lets say everything I said above is wrong. Placing less than 15% into BigLaw when you're located in the biggest BigLaw market in the country is a lot worse than placing less than 15% into BigLaw when you're a school in one of the smallest BigLaw markets in the country (St. Louis). Even Chicago, WUSTL's closest major market, is significantly smaller than NYC.
Last edited by DoveBodyWash on Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

shntn
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby shntn » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:56 pm

Unoriginalist wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:I'm still baffled how WashU is ranked so similarly to Cardozo on biglaw rank


I don't mean this to troll, as I'm fairly sure that Wash U has had some issues placing its students into Biglaw, but I think there's also a not-insignificant possibility self-selection plays a role in this as well. I would imagine most people who go to school in NYC are aiming for Biglaw, and I'm just not sure how true that rings for a midwestern school in a secondary market. Again, take with a grain of salt, but that might be one of many considerations towards that.

In that same vein, if you're not BigLaw or bust and would be perfectly happy pursuing some other (yet lower-paying) career trajectory, minimizing debt should be pretty important. WUSTL is obviously well known for helping out in that regard. And again, Cardozo's NYC location has got to play a significant role. They get enough alums into big firms in the city, those alums work up to hiring partner, and they give Cardozo applicants another look during OCI. It might not be easily quantifiable, but it's real. And, at the same time, pretty limited beyond the NYC market.

shntn
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby shntn » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:57 pm

cusenation wrote:The NLJ actually updated their system so that it includes the biggest 350 firms instead of the biggest 250. Dunno if they'll overhaul the placement stats to account for this.

O RLY? :shock:

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby DoveBodyWash » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:59 pm

shntn wrote:
cusenation wrote:The NLJ actually updated their system so that it includes the biggest 350 firms instead of the biggest 250. Dunno if they'll overhaul the placement stats to account for this.

O RLY? :shock:


http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202548523777&Introducing_The_NLJ_350

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202548639714&The_NLJ_350
Last edited by DoveBodyWash on Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

shntn
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby shntn » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:00 pm

cusenation wrote:
shntn wrote:
cusenation wrote:The NLJ actually updated their system so that it includes the biggest 350 firms instead of the biggest 250. Dunno if they'll overhaul the placement stats to account for this.

O RLY? :shock:


http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202548523777&Introducing_The_NLJ_350

Just goes to show how arbitrary the term "BigLaw" can be. Definitely food for thought.




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