JayJones78 wrote: cusenation wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:Would you say this list for those who want/need biglaw is more important the USnews rankings?
A thousand times yes. The US News are a measure of the incoming credentials of students and of peer-based prestige. The NLJ250 is actual student outcomes for BigLaw.
But remember it doesn't account for grads who go to BigLaw after clerkships
So what is your view that Cardozo places so high (relatevily), when looking at it together with WashU
... I don't really get why the hate towards Cardozo when (at least it looks as) their grads who do well (and that's similar to almost any non t14 grads) do just fine. I think the fact that they rank there almost 20 some spots higher than their usnews ranking speaks volumes. I don't think one should choose cardozo over WashU if they are not 100 percent sure they want NYC
I am actually surprised how close Cardozo and WUSTL are on that list....completely negligible difference (of course, you have to include their federal clerkship placement, but it doesn't change much because WUSTL is 3.8% while Cardozo is 2.9%). I would've expected WUSTL at 20% and Cardozo at 10%. I would guess, though, that another 5-10% of WUSTL's class is placed into decent midwestern firms that don't make the NLJ 250. Overall WUSTL places 60% into legal jobs while Cardozo places 50%, so not a huge difference there either although that doesn't tell us anything about the quality of the jobs obtained. WUSTL may have an edge there.
Given these numbers, and without information about quality of jobs obtained, I think Cardozo makes more sense (although it does not make sense in an absolute sense) because you are getting basically the same placement while competing against a less qualified student body and probably getting more scholarship money since Cardozo will pay for a 165 while WUSTL will probably reject that person, forget a scholarship. The caveat is, as you point out, that if you don't want NYC, Cardozo will definitely be a bad choice. In that case, though, I might look to lower T1 schools with scholarships over WUSTL if the employment figures are similar. It sucks to be trying to best 80-90% of your class when your class is as smart as the classes WUSTL is taking.
The reason Cardozo gets shit, though, is because even though it places 15% into big law + clerkships, besting many higher-ranked schools, it doesn't produce good outcomes for the vast majority of the other students, and it is really, really expensive, partially because of COL in NYC but also because it charges way more tuition than it has business charging. Cardozo may be beating other schools but those other schools are doing so poorly that beating them doesn't mean much. Also, as with WUSTL, other schools that aren't in major metropolitan areas may place some of their class into decent firms that aren't NLJ 250, so their numbers are somewhat deflated.