WUSTL c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.
howardgirl
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby howardgirl » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:12 pm

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:The decision on whether to attend a higher ranked school or Howard can be a tough one, and it's been debated in the URM forums. Howard is the premier HBCU for law, and they send a not insignificant portion of their graduates into high paying firm jobs. I'd say you'd be best served visiting both campuses and seeing where you feel you'd be best situated to thrive. Scholarship money should play a big role in where you decide to attend, too. Have you visited either school?


Thanks for this advice. Nope, I haven't visited either one yet. But I plan on attending Howard's Open House in April, and WUSTL's ASD on March 29th. You're right, scholarships really do play a big part in this, and I have no idea what I'm getting from either school yet (if anything). I will probably make a decision based off of how I feel when I visit, and any scholarship money I am offered.

howardgirl
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby howardgirl » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:13 pm

wannabelawstudent wrote:
howardgirl wrote:I still cannot believe I am in. I feel so overwhelmed... I now have to do all this research. Does anyone know how WUSTL is for URM's and for Big Law? And if anyone could help me with some facts between Howard Law and WUSTL for a URM it would be appreciated.

Spending the rest of this snow day doing some research, but any info will be appreciated.

Well there's http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/ but that doesn't have a lot of info on WUSTL. there's also cusenation's research a few pages back. As well as the choosing a law school and urm forums here. I am almost certain that all of the advice you read/get from others will tell you to go to WUSTL.

For everyone else, simmer down. Whoever that poor soul is that made the originally inquiry, has more than enough information to make his/her own decision now.


Thanks for this. I'm going to look a few pages back and also visit that site.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby DoveBodyWash » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:19 pm

howardgirl wrote:I still cannot believe I am in. I feel so overwhelmed... I now have to do all this research. Does anyone know how WUSTL is for URM's and for Big Law? And if anyone could help me with some facts between Howard Law and WUSTL for a URM it would be appreciated.

Spending the rest of this snow day doing some research, but any info will be appreciated.


I'm not sure what WUSTL's situation is re: URMs/BigLaw. But I do know that many of the major BigLaw firms go to Howard for OCI. (Just from perusing the OCI schedules at dozens of firms). Now, I have no idea how many Howard students they actually hire or recruit. It could be significant, it could be just be an empty PR gesture, no idea. A fairly simple yet tedious way to find out would be to go to the websites of some major firms and do a people search for attorneys that got their J.D.'s at Howard.

I also have no idea what Howard's exit opportunities are outside of BigLaw. Admittedly I'm hazy on the non-BigLaw opportunities for WUSTL as well, but it does seem like (based on anecdotal evidence) that WUSTL does a fairly good job of getting graduates into smaller or mid-law firms.

To second Sunny, scholarships should probably play a big role in your decision, as well as your own preferences. WUSTL is known to be abnormally generous with money, Howard could be too, but I don't know enough about the school to take a guess.

wannabelawstudent
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby wannabelawstudent » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:24 pm

I am like this close to withdrawling from Richmond out of spite. I applied a month ago. They skipped over making a decision on me. Last week they mailed me something encouraging to apply. I called and they said it was a mistake and my app is "in review".

Then today I get a viewbook offering me a fee waiver if I apply AND a seperate postcard.

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JayJones78
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby JayJones78 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:28 pm

cusenation wrote:
howardgirl wrote:I still cannot believe I am in. I feel so overwhelmed... I now have to do all this research. Does anyone know how WUSTL is for URM's and for Big Law? And if anyone could help me with some facts between Howard Law and WUSTL for a URM it would be appreciated.

Spending the rest of this snow day doing some research, but any info will be appreciated.


I'm not sure what WUSTL's situation is re: URMs/BigLaw. But I do know that many of the major BigLaw firms go to Howard for OCI. (Just from perusing the OCI schedules at dozens of firms). Now, I have no idea how many Howard students they actually hire or recruit. It could be significant, it could be just be an empty PR gesture, no idea. A fairly simple yet tedious way to find out would be to go to the websites of some major firms and do a people search for attorneys that got their J.D.'s at Howard.

I also have no idea what Howard's exit opportunities are outside of BigLaw. Admittedly I'm hazy on the non-BigLaw opportunities for WUSTL as well, but it does seem like (based on anecdotal evidence) that WUSTL does a fairly good job of getting graduates into smaller or mid-law firms.

To second Sunny, scholarships should probably play a big role in your decision, as well as your own preferences. WUSTL is known to be abnormally generous with money, Howard could be too, but I don't know enough about the school to take a guess.


Related Q about the whole notion of OCI: so st the begging of your 2L you go through OCI, and just based on your 1L grades and your résumé before LS firms decide if to give you post LS employement? When do the offers being hand out? Right after the OCI? Do they look at your 2/3L grades after you have an offer you've accepted? Does it happen a lot that at the middle of your 2L you already know where you'd be working after you graduate? Lastly - if you do get and accept an offer, do you the need to work at that firm on your 2L summer?
Lots of Qs I know

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Crowing
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby Crowing » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:29 pm

wannabelawstudent wrote:I am like this close to withdrawling from Richmond out of spite. I applied a month ago. They skipped over making a decision on me. Last week they mailed me something encouraging to apply. I called and they said it was a mistake and my app is "in review".

Then today I get a viewbook offering me a fee waiver if I apply AND a seperate postcard.


sounds like even if you withdraw they'll just end up admitting you in a few weeks anyway

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Unoriginalist
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby Unoriginalist » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:51 pm

JayJones78 wrote:
cusenation wrote:
howardgirl wrote:I still cannot believe I am in. I feel so overwhelmed... I now have to do all this research. Does anyone know how WUSTL is for URM's and for Big Law? And if anyone could help me with some facts between Howard Law and WUSTL for a URM it would be appreciated.

Spending the rest of this snow day doing some research, but any info will be appreciated.


I'm not sure what WUSTL's situation is re: URMs/BigLaw. But I do know that many of the major BigLaw firms go to Howard for OCI. (Just from perusing the OCI schedules at dozens of firms). Now, I have no idea how many Howard students they actually hire or recruit. It could be significant, it could be just be an empty PR gesture, no idea. A fairly simple yet tedious way to find out would be to go to the websites of some major firms and do a people search for attorneys that got their J.D.'s at Howard.

I also have no idea what Howard's exit opportunities are outside of BigLaw. Admittedly I'm hazy on the non-BigLaw opportunities for WUSTL as well, but it does seem like (based on anecdotal evidence) that WUSTL does a fairly good job of getting graduates into smaller or mid-law firms.

To second Sunny, scholarships should probably play a big role in your decision, as well as your own preferences. WUSTL is known to be abnormally generous with money, Howard could be too, but I don't know enough about the school to take a guess.


Related Q about the whole notion of OCI: so st the begging of your 2L you go through OCI, and just based on your 1L grades and your résumé before LS firms decide if to give you post LS employement? When do the offers being hand out? Right after the OCI? Do they look at your 2/3L grades after you have an offer you've accepted? Does it happen a lot that at the middle of your 2L you already know where you'd be working after you graduate? Lastly - if you do get and accept an offer, do you the need to work at that firm on your 2L summer?
Lots of Qs I know


My understanding from lurking on TLS for a while is this (someone please correct anything that may be mistaken) for biglaw

You go to 2L OCI at the beginning of the year (August-ish) with only your 1L grades. If they like you, you get a callback for a second round of interviews, and potentially an offer to SA your 2L summer (this process can take a few weeks). Most legitimate firms will have a pretty high offer rate for their 2L SAs, but its not necessarily guaranteed. 2L/3L grades matter less at that point, unless you get no-offered or go for 3L OCI (or struck out at 2L OCI, of course).

At most schools, Wash U included, not many people outside the top 25-30% get post-grad employment this way, but some do. But, yes, the offers from 2L OCI are for 2L summers, so if you accept, that's where you work that summer.

Digging through the Legal Employment forum is super helpful for more info, though. Perhaps this thread and this thread can be helpful to get an idea for WUSTL/similar level schools.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby DoveBodyWash » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:31 pm

Unoriginalist wrote:
My understanding from lurking on TLS for a while is this (someone please correct anything that may be mistaken) for biglaw

You go to 2L OCI at the beginning of the year (August-ish) with only your 1L grades. If they like you, you get a callback for a second round of interviews, and potentially an offer to SA your 2L summer (this process can take a few weeks). Most legitimate firms will have a pretty high offer rate for their 2L SAs, but its not necessarily guaranteed. 2L/3L grades matter less at that point, unless you get no-offered or go for 3L OCI (or struck out at 2L OCI, of course).

At most schools, Wash U included, not many people outside the top 25-30% get post-grad employment this way, but some do. But, yes, the offers from 2L OCI are for 2L summers, so if you accept, that's where you work that summer.

Digging through the Legal Employment forum is super helpful for more info, though. Perhaps this thread and this thread can be helpful to get an idea for WUSTL/similar level schools.


+1, nothing to add.

http://business.time.com/2013/02/08/schools-suing-graduates-for-defaulting-on-loans/?iid=biz-article-mostpop1

Apparently Yale, Penn, GW are suing their own students for defaulting on their undergrad loans. Those FOOLS. If they added an extra law student paying sticker price and then it would more than compensate for their lost revenue and they could avoid this kind of useless litigation

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JayJones78
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby JayJones78 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:46 pm

cusenation wrote:
Unoriginalist wrote:
My understanding from lurking on TLS for a while is this (someone please correct anything that may be mistaken) for biglaw

You go to 2L OCI at the beginning of the year (August-ish) with only your 1L grades. If they like you, you get a callback for a second round of interviews, and potentially an offer to SA your 2L summer (this process can take a few weeks). Most legitimate firms will have a pretty high offer rate for their 2L SAs, but its not necessarily guaranteed. 2L/3L grades matter less at that point, unless you get no-offered or go for 3L OCI (or struck out at 2L OCI, of course).

At most schools, Wash U included, not many people outside the top 25-30% get post-grad employment this way, but some do. But, yes, the offers from 2L OCI are for 2L summers, so if you accept, that's where you work that summer.

Digging through the Legal Employment forum is super helpful for more info, though. Perhaps this thread and this thread can be helpful to get an idea for WUSTL/similar level schools.


+1, nothing to add.

http://business.time.com/2013/02/08/schools-suing-graduates-for-defaulting-on-loans/?iid=biz-article-mostpop1

Apparently Yale, Penn, GW are suing their own students for defaulting on their undergrad loans. Those FOOLS. If they added an extra law student paying sticker price and then it would more than compensate for their lost revenue and they could avoid this kind of useless litigation


So the OCI is not for future post LS employment but for summer jobs that may become one?

wannabelawstudent
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby wannabelawstudent » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:47 pm

That's assuming they wouldn't pursue litigation if they added another student.

My favorite lawl school story is http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politi ... d-diabetes

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby DoveBodyWash » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:50 pm

JayJones78 wrote:So the OCI is not for future post LS employment but for summer jobs that may become one?


Yup. Generally most 2L SA's are extended a full-time offer. Unless you know, there's a recession or the firm simply just goes bankrupt (Dewey), or you're noticeably incompetent

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JayJones78
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby JayJones78 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:21 am

cusenation wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:So the OCI is not for future post LS employment but for summer jobs that may become one?


Yup. Generally most 2L SA's are extended a full-time offer. Unless you know, there's a recession or the firm simply just goes bankrupt (Dewey), or you're noticeably incompetent


Understood. Thanks. I was under the impression that's how it's done but didnt look into it

UAX09
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby UAX09 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:11 am

I know that Howard has a reputation as the go to school for URM big law hiring. I'm not sure how true that reputation is. I have seen quite a few big law attorneys with law degrees from Howard. You still have to do well no matter which school you go for a chance at big law, and the odds are stacked against you. The URM status can only take you so far in this economy. Being underrepresented will open the diversity door, but excelling will permit you to enter.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby DoveBodyWash » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:39 pm

howardgirl wrote:I still cannot believe I am in. I feel so overwhelmed... I now have to do all this research. Does anyone know how WUSTL is for URM's and for Big Law? And if anyone could help me with some facts between Howard Law and WUSTL for a URM it would be appreciated.

Spending the rest of this snow day doing some research, but any info will be appreciated.



Personally I think you would maximize your options by going to a brand-name law school over Howard. Firms will perceive you as a URM whether you go to Harvard, WUSTL, USC, or Howard. Your URM status isn't going to go away. But where you get your degree can and will open and close some doors for you. In my mind, since you're gonna be a URM anyway, why not go to the better ranked school (presuming scholly makes it financially viable) and maximize exit options?

That being said, you should compare WUSTL and Howard on LST as well as the NLJ250 placement.

Only around 11% of Howard grads from 2011 went to firms with 200 attorneys or more (midlaw and BigLaw). For some they sent a lot of grads into PI work, a little over 20%.
Here's the link to the data I'm referring to
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=howard&show=chars&sub=employers

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Xs20
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby Xs20 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:51 pm

Since there's been another wave of acceptances, here's the link to the WUSTL c/o 2016 Facebook group for anyone interested: https://www.facebook.com/groups/wustllaw2016/

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JayJones78
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby JayJones78 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:14 pm

cusenation wrote:
howardgirl wrote:I still cannot believe I am in. I feel so overwhelmed... I now have to do all this research. Does anyone know how WUSTL is for URM's and for Big Law? And if anyone could help me with some facts between Howard Law and WUSTL for a URM it would be appreciated.

Spending the rest of this snow day doing some research, but any info will be appreciated.



Personally I think you would maximize your options by going to a brand-name law school over Howard. Firms will perceive you as a URM whether you go to Harvard, WUSTL, USC, or Howard. Your URM status isn't going to go away. But where you get your degree can and will open and close some doors for you. In my mind, since you're gonna be a URM anyway, why not go to the better ranked school (presuming scholly makes it financially viable) and maximize exit options?

That being said, you should compare WUSTL and Howard on LST as well as the NLJ250 placement.

Only around 11% of Howard grads from 2011 went to firms with 200 attorneys or more (midlaw and BigLaw). For some they sent a lot of grads into PI work, a little over 20%.
Here's the link to the data I'm referring to
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=howard&show=chars&sub=employers


Is there an updated link to the bolded? I had the last one but I can't find it

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby DoveBodyWash » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:21 pm

JayJones78 wrote:
cusenation wrote:
howardgirl wrote:I still cannot believe I am in. I feel so overwhelmed... I now have to do all this research. Does anyone know how WUSTL is for URM's and for Big Law? And if anyone could help me with some facts between Howard Law and WUSTL for a URM it would be appreciated.

Spending the rest of this snow day doing some research, but any info will be appreciated.



Personally I think you would maximize your options by going to a brand-name law school over Howard. Firms will perceive you as a URM whether you go to Harvard, WUSTL, USC, or Howard. Your URM status isn't going to go away. But where you get your degree can and will open and close some doors for you. In my mind, since you're gonna be a URM anyway, why not go to the better ranked school (presuming scholly makes it financially viable) and maximize exit options?

That being said, you should compare WUSTL and Howard on LST as well as the NLJ250 placement.

Only around 11% of Howard grads from 2011 went to firms with 200 attorneys or more (midlaw and BigLaw). For some they sent a lot of grads into PI work, a little over 20%.
Here's the link to the data I'm referring to
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=howard&show=chars&sub=employers


Is there an updated link to the bolded? I had the last one but I can't find it


This is most recent one. Keep in mind these grads went through OCI in 2009, when the recession was at its height
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?interactive=true&id=1202543436520&slreturn=20130110121804

shntn
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby shntn » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:26 pm

cusenation wrote:
This is most recent one. Keep in mind these grads went through OCI in 2009, when the recession was at its height
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?interactive=true&id=1202543436520&slreturn=20130110121804

Yeah, that's the frustrating thing about all these job stats we have. There is such a lag in the data. I agree that the most recent stats we have should be taken with a grain of salt. Basing decisions on data from the class of 2011 is pretty much planning for a worst case scenario, which, while not the worst idea ever, isn't ideal.

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JayJones78
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby JayJones78 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:30 pm

shntn wrote:
cusenation wrote:
This is most recent one. Keep in mind these grads went through OCI in 2009, when the recession was at its height
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?interactive=true&id=1202543436520&slreturn=20130110121804

Yeah, that's the frustrating thing about all these job stats we have. There is such a lag in the data. I agree that the most recent stats we have should be taken with a grain of salt. Basing decisions on data from the class of 2011 is pretty much planning for a worst case scenario, which, while not the worst idea ever, isn't ideal.


Thanks for the link. When will we see the updated one? (If ever)

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby DoveBodyWash » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:31 pm

shntn wrote:
cusenation wrote:
This is most recent one. Keep in mind these grads went through OCI in 2009, when the recession was at its height
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?interactive=true&id=1202543436520&slreturn=20130110121804

Yeah, that's the frustrating thing about all these job stats we have. There is such a lag in the data. I agree that the most recent stats we have should be taken with a grain of salt. Basing decisions on data from the class of 2011 is pretty much planning for a worst case scenario, which, while not the worst idea ever, isn't ideal.


+1

Thankfully the new stats will come out around the time we need to make real decisions

(They came out in march last year)

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JayJones78
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby JayJones78 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:33 pm

cusenation wrote:
shntn wrote:
cusenation wrote:
This is most recent one. Keep in mind these grads went through OCI in 2009, when the recession was at its height
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?interactive=true&id=1202543436520&slreturn=20130110121804

Yeah, that's the frustrating thing about all these job stats we have. There is such a lag in the data. I agree that the most recent stats we have should be taken with a grain of salt. Basing decisions on data from the class of 2011 is pretty much planning for a worst case scenario, which, while not the worst idea ever, isn't ideal.


+1

Thankfully the new stats will come out around the time we need to make real decisions

(They came out in march last year)


Would you say this list for those who want/need biglaw is more important the USnews rankings?

shntn
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby shntn » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:36 pm

cusenation wrote:
+1

Thankfully the new stats will come out around the time we need to make real decisions

(They came out in march last year)

Ah, that makes sense since the class of 2012 will be 9 months out by then.

Even so, these people OCI'd in 2010, which wasn't exactly a doozy for legal hiring, at least not the good kind. Speaking purely anecdotally, and given the teeny bit of insight I have into biglaw hiring, I think the picture will look prettier over the next few years as the data catch up to the reality. I'm now off to corroborate this theory with stats on recent summer class sizes.

shntn
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby shntn » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:37 pm

JayJones78 wrote:Would you say this list for those who want/need biglaw is more important the USnews rankings?

USNWR rankings, by themselves, should never be anyone's most important factor.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby DoveBodyWash » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:39 pm

JayJones78 wrote:Would you say this list for those who want/need biglaw is more important the USnews rankings?


A thousand times yes. The US News are a measure of the incoming credentials of students and of peer-based prestige. The NLJ250 is actual student outcomes for BigLaw.

But remember it doesn't account for grads who go to BigLaw after clerkships

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JayJones78
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2016

Postby JayJones78 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:00 pm

cusenation wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:Would you say this list for those who want/need biglaw is more important the USnews rankings?


A thousand times yes. The US News are a measure of the incoming credentials of students and of peer-based prestige. The NLJ250 is actual student outcomes for BigLaw.

But remember it doesn't account for grads who go to BigLaw after clerkships


So what is your view that Cardozo places so high (relatevily), when looking at it together with WashU




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