WUSTL c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013) Forum

[Xs20]

If so, I'm sure wannabe's high aspie-rations are duly noted.

[JayJones78]

I kind of wonder if Clifford or any of them read this thread, because it'd be pretty obvious who some of us are.

I'm wondering that for this and the NU thread....

I think I've heard a few NU and WUSTL students say that they know for sure that the staff reads TLS. ..i doubt they go through the pages and pages of posts and sit there trying to figure out who's who. But I think most major law schools breeze through relevant threads to see how they're being perceived and stuff..For example Emory's admissions dean just straight-up posts in the Emory thread every year.

Yah I think it totally makes sense. I would most def check them if I were them. It's the most immediate, semi-truthful portrait of how applicants see them and what they think about the school

[wannabelawstudent]

If so, I'm sure wannabe's high aspie-rations are duly noted.

I dunno what this means but I assume a sad face is an appropriate response.

[DoveBodyWash]

If so, I'm sure wannabe's high aspie-rations are duly noted.

I dunno what this means but I assume a sad face is an appropriate response.

Think of it this way, at least you know if you get in, you'll be getting some/decent scholly! Once you're in it'll mean you cleared whatever GPA-induced hurdle there was. LSAT is a big factor in WUSTL scholly.

I know for a fact that even if I get into the one remaining school I actually care about, I'll have to pay sticker to attend

[wannabelawstudent]

Think of it this way, at least you know if you get in, you'll be getting some/decent scholly! Once you're in it'll mean you cleared whatever GPA-induced hurdle there was. LSAT is a big factor in WUSTL scholly.

I know for a fact that even if I get into the one remaining school I actually care about, I'll have to pay sticker to attend

I talked to someone who went through the last cycle with my exact numbers. He said one of the advantages is that anyone that takes my numbers off the waitlist must need my LSAT to reach a median or whatever. He was offered a 28k scholly from WUSTL, after initially being waitlisted, ended up attending elsewhere. So...there's always hope.

[alwayssunnyinfl]

If so, I'm sure wannabe's high aspie-rations are duly noted.

I dunno what this means but I assume a sad face is an appropriate response.

Think of it this way, at least you know if you get in, you'll be getting some/decent scholly! Once you're in it'll mean you cleared whatever GPA-induced hurdle there was. LSAT is a big factor in WUSTL scholly.

I know for a fact that even if I get into the one remaining school I actually care about, I'll have to pay sticker to attend

I had a conversation with my aunt last night who worked for DoJ, but retired decades ago. When I told her I had been waitlisted at UVA, she said "Oh, well, if you get in there, you should definitely go!" When I brought up WUSTL and how I'm really excited about the school and am just waiting on scholarship info, she asked how expensive UVA would be. "WHAT!? No, forget UVA, go to Wash U or Minnesota or wherever is cheaper. That's ridiculous."

[DoveBodyWash]

If so, I'm sure wannabe's high aspie-rations are duly noted.

I dunno what this means but I assume a sad face is an appropriate response.

Think of it this way, at least you know if you get in, you'll be getting some/decent scholly! Once you're in it'll mean you cleared whatever GPA-induced hurdle there was. LSAT is a big factor in WUSTL scholly.

I know for a fact that even if I get into the one remaining school I actually care about, I'll have to pay sticker to attend

I had a conversation with my aunt last night who worked for DoJ, but retired decades ago. When I told her I had been waitlisted at UVA, she said "Oh, well, if you get in there, you should definitely go!" When I brought up WUSTL and how I'm really excited about the school and am just waiting on scholarship info, she asked how expensive UVA would be. "WHAT!? No, forget UVA, go to Wash U or Minnesota or wherever is cheaper. That's ridiculous."

My uncle is a senior partner at an international firm in Asia, and is a judge in the international criminal court in Switzerland (or Sweden?). He didn't attend law school in the U.S (minus getting a JSD at NYU) but he basically told me U.S tuition is ridiculous and to minimize debt cuz "You'd essentially be a debt-slave otherwise." Also, this Of-Counsel at WilmerHale (Vandy alumn) told me a few of his old classmates had to turn down a lot of jobs that they wanted (smaller firm positions that paid lower six-figures...or PI-work) because they had to follow whatever job paid the highest salary in order to service their debt. After hearing that I withdrew my ED app to Penn (switched to RD) by the next day lol

[alwayssunnyinfl]

Yep. Almost everyone I've met with has told me that the secret to having a good law career is flexibility. Having a ton of debt right out of the gate doesn't really allow you to be flexible.

[wannabelawstudent]

Yep. Almost everyone I've met with has told me that the secret to having a good law career is flexibility. Having a ton of debt right out of the gate doesn't really allow you to be flexible.

Can you further expand on what you mean by "flexibility"? thank you Stalin.

[DoveBodyWash]

Yep. Almost everyone I've met with has told me that the secret to having a good law career is flexibility. Having a ton of debt right out of the gate doesn't really allow you to be flexible.

Can you further expand on what you mean by "flexibility"? thank you Stalin.

Basically the market is volatile. You never know when you could get laid off..or if a new opportunity comes up that you'll wanna take. So in order to have a long-term career or sustainable career, you need to be able to change tracks/positions almost instantly. But you can't really do that if you have a lot of debt because you need to chase the highest paycheck.

sample scenario:
You're a 4th-year in BigLaw, you have an opportunity to move in-house or to a smaller firm where you could actually stay long-term or make partner or something. But you can't leave because your debt couldn't handle the pay-cut. So you stay in BigLaw, you're presumably unhappy/miserable since you were considering alternatives. Maybe you get laid off in your 6th-year, maybe you get turned down for partner etc..

Sample scenario 2: You get laid off from BigLaw or whatever job you had. You can't find another legal position. If you don't have a lot of debt, it's not catastrophic. You can afford to be unemployed while you look for work or try to switch fields. If you have a ton of debt? Game over.

[alwayssunnyinfl]

Exactly. Also, you never know what might interest you once you've gone through law school. I interviewed with an attorney for another similarly-ranked school to WUSTL, and he ended up in a field completely different from what he wanted to do going into law school. Then he switched fields again about 10 years in. He pretty much flat out told me that that would have been impossible had his family not picked up the tab for law school, and that the only schools that really open enough doors to justify sticker debt are Harvard, Yale, and Stanford.

I think the calculus gets different the further you go down the pecking order, and doors are definitely shut to you if you attend a local T2 at full ride over a quasi-national school, but for the top 30ish schools I think debt minimization is the name of the game.

[DoveBodyWash]

Exactly. Also, you never know what might interest you once you've gone through law school. I interviewed with an attorney for another similarly-ranked school to WUSTL, and he ended up in a field completely different from what he wanted to do going into law school. Then he switched fields again about 10 years in. He pretty much flat out told me that that would have been impossible had his family not picked up the tab for law school, and that the only schools that really open enough doors to justify sticker debt are Harvard, Yale, and Stanford.

I think the calculus gets different the further you go down the pecking order, and doors are definitely shut to you if you attend a local T2 at full ride over a quasi-national school, but for the top 30ish schools I think debt minimization is the name of the game.

Personally I think only schools that send majority of grads to BigLaw or LRAP-qualifying PI positions are worth incurring sticker debt to attend. Even then, it's still hard, but at least it's possible. Otherwise...how else are you gonna pay it off? As Bill Clinton would say, the arithmetic just doesn't work.

I talked to XS20 on FB about this earlier...but basically I want to avoid:
Incurring debt to have a better chance at getting a job I wouldn't like anyway...and then being miserable at that job to service debt that I only borrowed to get that job.

[Crowing]

If so, I'm sure wannabe's high aspie-rations are duly noted.

I dunno what this means but I assume a sad face is an appropriate response.

Think of it this way, at least you know if you get in, you'll be getting some/decent scholly! Once you're in it'll mean you cleared whatever GPA-induced hurdle there was. LSAT is a big factor in WUSTL scholly.

I know for a fact that even if I get into the one remaining school I actually care about, I'll have to pay sticker to attend

I had a conversation with my aunt last night who worked for DoJ, but retired decades ago. When I told her I had been waitlisted at UVA, she said "Oh, well, if you get in there, you should definitely go!" When I brought up WUSTL and how I'm really excited about the school and am just waiting on scholarship info, she asked how expensive UVA would be. "WHAT!? No, forget UVA, go to Wash U or Minnesota or wherever is cheaper. That's ridiculous."

thats pretty awesome and a refreshing viewpoint from somebody of that age demographic

[alwayssunnyinfl]

thats pretty awesome and a refreshing viewpoint from somebody of that age demographic

Yeah. She's a pretty awesome person in general. Escaped her small Southern town by the skin of her teeth, went and worked in DC for decades saving every penny, moved back to her small town to be around her mom in her waning years. She's happy now, and definitely a person I try to emulate in certain ways.

[Xs20]

I talked to XS20 on FB about this earlier...but basically I want to avoid:
Incurring debt to have a better chance at getting a job I wouldn't like anyway...and then being miserable at that job to service debt that I only borrowed to get that job.

Exactly. At this point, any higher ranked school I'd get into would only really offer better biglaw opportunities, which I'd only be interested in if I had a ton of debt to pay off. Having the freedom to do what I'm interested in rather than hate my life in biglaw >>> prestige IMO.

[AMilfordMan]

I talked to XS20 on FB about this earlier...but basically I want to avoid:
Incurring debt to have a better chance at getting a job I wouldn't like anyway...and then being miserable at that job to service debt that I only borrowed to get that job.

Exactly. At this point, any higher ranked school I'd get into would only really offer better biglaw opportunities, which I'd only be interested in if I had a ton of debt to pay off. Having the freedom to do what I'm interested in rather than hate my life in biglaw >>> prestige IMO.

+1

[Crowing]

not everybody goes into biglaw intending to stay there forever and make partner or even for purely financial reasons. its also a way to get the training and experience that helps for to eventually moving in-house or going down other paths. i think tls overemphasizes biglaw as the only path to take for viable exit options and career choice, but it is a common starting point before diversifying.

[DoveBodyWash]

not everybody goes into biglaw intending to stay there forever and make partner or even for purely financial reasons. its also a way to get the training and experience that helps for to eventually moving in-house or going down other paths. i think tls overemphasizes biglaw as the only path to take for viable exit options and career choice, but it is a common starting point before diversifying.

+1 agree with everything. Don't get me wrong I would definitely appreciate BigLaw experience for all the reasons you mentioned. But I think perspective and performance change depending on debt-load...Because it pretty much determines what BigLaw becomes for you. I would prefer if BigLaw was just an opportunity I had a shot at and something I could use as a learning experience...as opposed to being an urgent and absolutely necessary path I needed to stay afloat financially

[Unoriginalist]

not everybody goes into biglaw intending to stay there forever and make partner or even for purely financial reasons. its also a way to get the training and experience that helps for to eventually moving in-house or going down other paths. i think tls overemphasizes biglaw as the only path to take for viable exit options and career choice, but it is a common starting point before diversifying.

+1 agree with everything. Don't get me wrong I would definitely appreciate BigLaw experience for all the reasons you mentioned. But I think perspective and performance change depending on debt-load...Because it pretty much determines what BigLaw becomes for you. I would prefer if BigLaw was just an opportunity I had a shot at and something I could use as a learning experience...as opposed to being an urgent and absolutely necessary path I needed to stay afloat financially

+1

I think there's a huge difference in mentality in feeling cornered into biglaw or bust to make a debt payment versus having biglaw as one of many options.

[icanbeohyes]

Does anyone know when the next wave of admission decisions may be? My complete was updated on 1/23/12

[simplycatalina]

Does anyone know when the next wave of admission decisions may be? My complete was updated on 1/23/12

I'm on a 1/23 complete as well...

[Crowing]

cuse has a really helpful post on the previous page with info such as that included

[wannabelawstudent]

Does anyone know when the next wave of admission decisions may be? My complete was updated on 1/23/12

I'm on a 1/23 complete as well...

I'm at 1/14 and I haven't heard anything yet.

[DoveBodyWash]

Does anyone know when the next wave of admission decisions may be? My complete was updated on 1/23/12

I'm on a 1/23 complete as well...

I'm at 1/14 and I haven't heard anything yet.

You guys are all probably in the same "batch" as far as when you go under review. I don't think anyone who submitted after the December test has heard a decision yet..Unless there's someone with T-6 numbers that got fast tracked or something. No reason to worry yet!

To answer original question, minus the initial wave of admits in December there hasn't been chunks of decisions being sent out. Seems like they send out decisions as they make them.

[JadeWest]

Does anyone know when the next wave of admission decisions may be? My complete was updated on 1/23/12

I'm on a 1/23 complete as well...

I'm at 1/14 and I haven't heard anything yet.

You guys are all probably in the same "batch" as far as when you go under review. I don't think anyone who submitted after the December test has heard a decision yet..Unless there's someone with T-6 numbers that got fast tracked or something. No reason to worry yet!

To answer original question, minus the initial wave of admits in December there hasn't been chunks of decisions being sent out. Seems like they send out decisions as they make them.

I went complete 11/15 and nothing