University of Denver c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 Cycle) Forum

[CanadianWolf]

Why would anyone "hate" Boulder ? I ask because Boulder is not just a college town & it consistently makes "best places to live in the US" lists. Also, isn't the commute to Denver just 30 minutes during non-rush hour ?

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Checking in as well.

To those with scholarships did they tell you their 1L curve?

Curve is 3.0, but if DU is like everybody else there is rampant grade inflation. The median for each class has to be a B, but that doesn't mean the overall median will be a 3.0. For example, the median for each class at CU is a 3.3, but the overall median is higher (don't know exactly, they don't release it here). I do know it is higher because you can just scan the grade boards and see it plainly. Same with all other schools I've looked into. By comparing schools that do publish the realized median, you can see that it is usually about .1 higher than the median for each class.

What I'm saying is that you might be able to be slightly below average and still keep your scholarship. It's still a shitty curve, but this is good news.

[DULaw13]

Why would anyone "hate" Boulder ? I ask because Boulder is not just a college town & it consistently makes "best places to live in the US" lists. Also, isn't the commute to Denver just 30 minutes during non-rush hour ?

I'm not saying that I hate Boulder, but there are plenty who do. It is just not a good fit for some people. Especially those who don't like the ultra liberal vibe. That being said, for me it was not a good fit because I have a family, and finding a house to rent in Boulder on a student's limited income is virtually impossible--the rent three bedroom houses to three rich kids from the east coast for $1200/ea=3600...I can't swing that.

Boulder is beautiful though, and I like the vibe.

[DULaw13]

Checking in as well.

To those with scholarships did they tell you their 1L curve?

Curve is 3.0, but if DU is like everybody else there is rampant grade inflation. The median for each class has to be a B, but that doesn't mean the overall median will be a 3.0. For example, the median for each class at CU is a 3.3, but the overall median is higher (don't know exactly, they don't release it here). I do know it is higher because you can just scan the grade boards and see it plainly. Same with all other schools I've looked into. By comparing schools that do publish the realized median, you can see that it is usually about .1 higher than the median for each class.

What I'm saying is that you might be able to be slightly below average and still keep your scholarship. It's still a shitty curve, but this is good news.

The mandatory curve at DU is between 2.85-3.15, so there is not much inflation in first year grades (and if you are going t lose your scholarship it will be based on your first year grades). After first year you can take non-curved classes, so that can inflate your gpa--or get you back on track if you have a rough first year. Keep in mind that you get one semester from the time that your cumulative GPA falls under 3.0 before they yank your money. For example if after your first year you are at a 2.8, you still have money for the fall semester of 2L year, and if you do well that semester then you keep your money.

It is a gamble, and I know of several people who lost money, but overall it is not that tough to hit 3.0.

Edit Note: Sorry, in an earlier post I said the mandatory curve was 2.85-3.0 it is actually 2.85-3.15 my bad!

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

The mandatory curve at DU is between 2.85-3.0, so there is not much inflation in first year grades.

Oh. Well nevermind-that makes it harder to keep the money.

It is a gamble, and I know of several people who lost money, but overall it is not that tough to hit 3.0.

Just curious, why don't you think its difficult to beat half your class? I have my own thoughts on securing median, but I'd be curious to hear yours.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

I'm not saying that I hate Boulder, but there are plenty who do. It is just not a good fit for some people. Especially those who don't like the ultra liberal vibe.

That's weird. I've never met one person in Denver that "hates" Boulder. I mean, I have met DU undergrads who have only been to Boulder twice and mindlessly claim to hate Boulder, but that's just because its a rival school. It would be weird if that group didn't "hate" Boulder, but surely as they mature that will change. I didn't expect that attitude to permeate to the grad programs. Also, the political thing is a stereotype. Check out the election map: Boulder and Denver both went for Obama by the same margin.

FWIW, people in Boulder think that Denver is great. Both are terrific places to live.

[DULaw13]

I'm not saying that I hate Boulder, but there are plenty who do. It is just not a good fit for some people. Especially those who don't like the ultra liberal vibe.

That's weird. I've never met one person in Denver that "hates" Boulder. I mean, I have met DU undergrads who have only been to Boulder twice and mindlessly claim to hate Boulder, but that's just because its a rival school. It would be weird if that group didn't "hate" Boulder, but surely as they mature that will change. I didn't expect that attitude to permeate to the grad programs. Also, the political thing is a stereotype. Check out the election map: Boulder and Denver both went for Obama by the same margin.

FWIW, people in Boulder think that Denver is great. Both are terrific places to live.

I am speaking not just about law school people, but people more generally. I am a native of Colorado and know plenty of people that would use the word "hate" to describe their feelings about Boulder. And yes it the political thing is a stereotype, but as with many stereotypes it is based in truth. While the City of Denver went to Obama with about the same margin, the same cannot be true of the larger Denver metro area. I don't argue that both Denver and Boulder are both good places to live, only that they are different, and for someone coming from outside of Colorado it is important to understand and appreciate those differences.

[DULaw13]

The mandatory curve at DU is between 2.85-3.0, so there is not much inflation in first year grades.

Oh. Well nevermind-that makes it harder to keep the money.

It is a gamble, and I know of several people who lost money, but overall it is not that tough to hit 3.0.

Just curious, why don't you think its difficult to beat half your class? I have my own thoughts on securing median, but I'd be curious to hear yours.

My general view is that there is a sizable part of every law school class that simply does not work that hard. You don't have to be the smartest person in the class in order to do well. Instead, you simply have to be disciplined and have a good plan for working both hard and smart. Grades are not guaranteed to anyone, but I would argue that if a person puts in the effort and has the intellectual capacity to be admitted to school in the first place, then it is likely that they will land above median.

[Coco_Local]

My general view is that there is a sizable part of every law school class that simply does not work that hard. You don't have to be the smartest person in the class in order to do well. Instead, you simply have to be disciplined and have a good plan for working both hard and smart. Grades are not guaranteed to anyone, but I would argue that if a person puts in the effort and has the intellectual capacity to be admitted to school in the first place, then it is likely that they will land above median.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

It's 50/50 odds, kids. And you're not a special snowflake.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

My general view is that there is a sizable part of every law school class that simply does not work that hard. You don't have to be the smartest person in the class in order to do well. Instead, you simply have to be disciplined and have a good plan for working both hard and smart. Grades are not guaranteed to anyone, but I would argue that if a person puts in the effort and has the intellectual capacity to be admitted to school in the first place, then it is likely that they will land above median.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

It's 50/50 odds, kids. And you're not a special snowflake.

I don't agree that it is 50/50. My general view isn't all that different from DULaws, except I would change above median to "at least somewhere around median." Maybe not at your school, but at schools like DU or CU, it is true that not everyone works as hard as everyone else. I don't think you can gun and guarantee top 25%, but I think if you gun, and you gun intelligently, you can be fairly certain that you will at least wind up around the median. There is just a sizable portion of the class that isn't gunning. Maybe one of the reasons this view is so contentious on TLS is because so many of the posters attend T-14, where perhaps 95% to 100% of the class is actually trying to finish in the top 10%.

Just to get this back on DU Law School, does anyone know what portion of scholarship holders lose their award? If I had to guess, I bet it would be less than 50% of scholarship holders, suggesting that maybe there is something to our argument.

[R86]

http://www.law.du.edu/index.php/financi ... igibility?

Students Matriculating in --- Merit Scholarships Awarded --- Scholarships Cancelled by Fall 2012
Fall 2011 ----------------------------- 122 ------------------------------- 22
Fall 2010 ----------------------------- 132 ------------------------------- 51
Fall 2009 ----------------------------- 97 ------------------------------- 22

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

http://www.law.du.edu/index.php/financi ... igibility?

Students Matriculating in --- Merit Scholarships Awarded --- Scholarships Cancelled by Fall 2012
Fall 2011 ----------------------------- 122 ------------------------------- 22
Fall 2010 ----------------------------- 132 ------------------------------- 51
Fall 2009 ----------------------------- 97 ------------------------------- 22

Nice find. I like that DU is up front with this data as well. No reason not to be, really; it shows that students have a way better than 50/50 shot to hold on to the money. So for the last three years, students had a 73% chance of keeping their scholarships.

[R86]

http://www.law.du.edu/index.php/financi ... igibility?

Students Matriculating in --- Merit Scholarships Awarded --- Scholarships Cancelled by Fall 2012
Fall 2011 ----------------------------- 122 ------------------------------- 22
Fall 2010 ----------------------------- 132 ------------------------------- 51
Fall 2009 ----------------------------- 97 ------------------------------- 22

Nice find. I like that DU is up front with this data as well. No reason not to be, really; it shows that students have a way better than 50/50 shot to hold on to the money. So for the last three years, students had a 73% chance of keeping their scholarships.

I was actually surprised to find it at all, much less as quickly as I did. Also surprised by the numbers.

My opinion is incredibly unimportant to this thread, but as a Denver native who was determined to go to law school in Colorado, with the grades and LSAT to get into both, probably with significant money at both, I was leaning towards DU. The edge that CU has (rankings, smaller class size) weren't quite enough to justify the fact that a) they are much stingier with scholarships, esp. full rides and b) living in Boulder is expensive, and despite what people say, commuting to Boulder from within Denver everyday is a fucking pain, especially with the planned work along US36 coming up.

And nobody wants to live in effin' Broomfield or anywhere else midway. Or at least I sure didn't.

Either way, I've 100% decided against going to law school at this time in my life. Those are just my very narrow opinions on why I was leaning towards attending DU.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

living in Boulder is expensive, and despite what people say, commuting to Boulder from within Denver everyday is a fucking pain, especially with the planned work along US36 coming up.

Is living a student life in Boulder more expensive than around DU? If so, it can't be more than 1k a year more... I mean, if you want a garage and a yard in Boulder you are going to pay out the ass, but for an apartment? My wife works in real estate in the front range and I think the Boulder student - DU area student comparison is similar. I mean, you can live 15 minutes away from DU and find a cheaper place, but the same can be said for Boulder. I live 10/15 minutes away from Boulder and I live cheap. Also, traffic on 36 is only bad by Colorado standards. I make it in between the cities in 20 minutes!!! That is how long it takes to drive 25 miles (the distance between) at 70 mph. The only time you aren't going 70mph is between 7:15-9:00 and 4:45-6:30. In other cities I've lived in, the traffic is constant! Besides, the average speed drops down to what, 30mph during "crazy traffic?" Please..

And nobody wants to live in effin' Broomfield or anywhere else midway. Or at least I sure didn't.

The #1 town in America according to CNN money is midway! You must be an urbanite. East Boulder County is nice.

[gobuffs10]

CU reject and former DU applicant, Denver native here. Can answer questions as well, obviously not about the law schools, but about Denver and Colorado in general. I grew up 10-15 minutes from DU (depending on traffic), and spend a lot of time in the area. I'll contribute in addition to DULaw and Lord Randolph, if some native and now out of state perspective will help.

And yeah, some people do just hate Boulder, which is absolutely silly. It can be impractical to live in certain parts of town, and it is pretty liberal, but there are a lot of people who have never been there who just dislike the place because they think it's some hippie heaven. Truthfully, it's full of rich kids from Cali and the east coast, which gets far more annoying, I promise. Then again, DU is a lot of the same.

[Jasonmunn87]

Is this a odd cycle for DU? Can anyone explain how someone with a 148 LSAT and 3.2 GPA was accepted while 155+ LSATer's are being wait listed?

[1693]

Is this a odd cycle for DU? Can anyone explain how someone with a 148 LSAT and 3.2 GPA was accepted while 155+ LSATer's are being wait listed?

Good softs?

[kingsfield69]

Withdrew my app today. I'd been admitted with Provost scholarship, so hopefully this opens the door for someone else.

Good luck to all!

[Pip42]

Crazy good cycle so far King. Well done!

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Is this a odd cycle for DU? Can anyone explain how someone with a 148 LSAT and 3.2 GPA was accepted while 155+ LSATer's are being wait listed?

Maybe a URM, but if you have a 155 on your LSAT you need to retake. Even if you end up at DU, you'll save 100k.

[kingsfield69]

Crazy good cycle so far King. Well done!

[trixy]

In via email! 21k a year

[Pip42]

In via email with scholarship 21k a year. Hoping for a little more. Anyone know if they negotiate at all? I really love Denver and this is a real great option if I don't get into CU. Actually this may be a good option regardless of what happens with CU.

[zniha]

Complete Today 1/16

Sent 1/3

The waiting begins!

[classof2016]

Hey all. My status has been "Application Complete / Ready for Review" since 12/3. Is that normal? Does t ever go into "Under Review" status?