William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

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kuttlefish
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby kuttlefish » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:53 pm

seancris wrote:I think Email/Status Checker decisions are kind of lame. Richmond does it the best. You apply, they call you back when you're in. No waiting around or constantly checking email/statuses for a decision that might not come until April.


But what would you speculate on? Seriously, I've been enjoying the madness in these forums for the past few weeks as everyone tries to decipher the hidden meanings behind a date change on the status update. It makes waiting more fun.

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seancris
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby seancris » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:56 pm

kuttlefish wrote:
seancris wrote:I think Email/Status Checker decisions are kind of lame. Richmond does it the best. You apply, they call you back when you're in. No waiting around or constantly checking email/statuses for a decision that might not come until April.


But what would you speculate on? Seriously, I've been enjoying the madness in these forums for the past few weeks as everyone tries to decipher the hidden meanings behind a date change on the status update. It makes waiting more fun.


Now that I've gotten an awesome scholarship to my top choice, waiting on other decisions is fun lol. When I was waiting for real results, I was getting an ulcer. :lol:

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kuttlefish
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby kuttlefish » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:04 pm

seancris wrote:
drinion wrote:
rabbitrun wrote: Also what's up with W&Ms dropping rank. I'm not that much of a rankings whore, but it's still kind of concerning?


From what I have read, their employment numbers declined disproportionately compared to a lot of other schools because they don't hire recent grads to fluff their numbers.


Agree, except for the bolded. Many of the other schools in the region whose employment numbers declined less than W&M don't fluff their numbers with law school hires. W&L and Richmond both come to mind.

W&M grads took a real big hit last year, not sure why. Awaiting this year's numbers with interest.


I'm combining some posts you made in this thread vs W&L, but we seem like like-minds looking at the same things. I agree that both W&_ schools should be ranked evenly at around #30, but for some reason, W&L was 5 spots higher than normal and W&M is 5 spots lower. I was just looking over the employment stats, and W&M had more respondents reporting salary than W&L (68% vs 40%). To me that means, more people got "reportable" jobs as opposed to any old job. Combine that stat with difference in class size and you might have an explanation for the discrepancy. Maybe I'm just mad that I didn't get an W&L acceptance today. I just wish that everyone was as transparent as Northwestern when it came to employment stats, since that's the only stat that matters.

As far as laughing at the pandemonium, what was your top choice? I feel similar since I got a great offer from LSU. My fall-back scenario is being a "regular" lawyer in-state with less than $25k of total debt (I got CoL covered). If I can do better, great, if not... oh well. So now, the rest of this cycle is like gambling with monopoly money. I might throw an app at Michigan just for the fug of it.

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seancris
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby seancris » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:33 pm

kuttlefish wrote:I'm combining some posts you made in this thread vs W&L, but we seem like like-minds looking at the same things. I agree that both W&_ schools should be ranked evenly at around #30, but for some reason, W&L was 5 spots higher than normal and W&M is 5 spots lower. I was just looking over the employment stats, and W&M had more respondents reporting salary than W&L (68% vs 40%). To me that means, more people got "reportable" jobs as opposed to any old job. Combine that stat with difference in class size and you might have an explanation for the discrepancy. Maybe I'm just mad that I didn't get an W&L acceptance today. I just wish that everyone was as transparent as Northwestern when it came to employment stats, since that's the only stat that matters.


I anticipate getting nearly identical offers at W&M and W&L. I have a (nearly) full-tuition scholarship/fellowship combo at W&M and at W&L I think I'm competitive for the 120k scholarship based on LSN.

That said, I'd give the edge to W&M due to location.

We know enough about the raw employment numbers to determine that W&M and W&L are peers. 55% to 54.5% or something. But little Lexington is about an hour away from the nearest city (Roanoke), which isn't exactly a major market to begin with. The opportunities to network and hustle to get that job seem pretty slim in that location.

Conversely, Williamsburg is in a great location. An hour from Richmond, the state capitol. Less than that from Newport News, Fairfax, Chesapeake and Va Beach. And like 2.5 hours away from DC.

There's just more opportunity at W&M, I think. But I do love W&L, everything from the third year program to the honor code. W&M gets the edge, though.

As far as laughing at the pandemonium, what was your top choice? I feel similar since I got a great offer from LSU. My fall-back scenario is being a "regular" lawyer in-state with less than $25k of total debt (I got CoL covered). If I can do better, great, if not... oh well. So now, the rest of this cycle is like gambling with monopoly money. I might throw an app at Michigan just for the fug of it.


Until about 30 minutes ago, W&M was my top choice due to the great scholarship. But I also just got a great offer from UF law, which is my alma mater. It would be so much easier to go to school in my hometown and I have ties to FL. So I've got a tough choice to make.

It's looking like UF vs. W&M right now.

I hate the feeling of jerking my family around as the offers come in, though.

#TLS0Lproblems
Last edited by seancris on Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Presidentjlh
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Presidentjlh » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:50 pm

seancris wrote:I hate the feeling of jerking my family around as the offers come in, though. When I got the W&M offer I told my wife to get ready to move since I was certain that nothing else would match it. Ugh.

#TLS0Lproblems


Consider it a very happy problem to have, lol. Besides, you've got plenty of time to make a decision.

KingsCup
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby KingsCup » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:31 pm

had another email from them this morning, talking about something other than admissions. too many psyche-outs

ndel21
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby ndel21 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:53 pm

bgoodrick wrote:had another email from them this morning, talking about something other than admissions. too many psyche-outs



Yep, trolled twice in a week.. hoping to hear some real news soon

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anteater1
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby anteater1 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:28 pm

Just got a phone call from a Dean mid-way into my 10 mile run, I think I may have come off a little brash but I was just out of breath!

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Presidentjlh
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Presidentjlh » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:32 pm

anteater1 wrote:Just got a phone call from a Dean mid-way into my 10 mile run, I think I may have come off a little brash but I was just out of breath!

Haha. I got a voicemail from her (was busy playing Super Smash Bros. with some of the guys in my chapter) Very nice touch, William and Mary is easily my #1 right now.

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teachmehowtoraji
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby teachmehowtoraji » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:11 pm

Presidentjlh wrote:
anteater1 wrote:Just got a phone call from a Dean mid-way into my 10 mile run, I think I may have come off a little brash but I was just out of breath!

Haha. I got a voicemail from her (was busy playing Super Smash Bros. with some of the guys in my chapter) Very nice touch, William and Mary is easily my #1 right now.



Yeah, the voicemail really is a nice touch. I'm starting to like W&M more and more.

joannedarc
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby joannedarc » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:43 pm

Accepted via status checker yesterday! Still feels unreal!

Submitted: 12/7
Completed: 12/12
Accepted: 12/13

163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and really strong softs

Cannot wait to get the email or the packet - good luck to everyone waiting!

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RetakeFrenzy
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby RetakeFrenzy » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:59 am

joannedarc wrote:Accepted via status checker yesterday! Still feels unreal!

Submitted: 12/7
Completed: 12/12
Accepted: 12/13

163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and really strong softs

Cannot wait to get the email or the packet - good luck to everyone waiting!


Congrats! That was real quick.

joannedarc
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby joannedarc » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:09 pm

RetakeFrenzy wrote:
joannedarc wrote:Accepted via status checker yesterday! Still feels unreal!

Submitted: 12/7
Completed: 12/12
Accepted: 12/13

163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and really strong softs

Cannot wait to get the email or the packet - good luck to everyone waiting!


Congrats! That was real quick.


Yeah, I clearly was not expecting that fast of a positive turn over. But I'll take it!

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kuttlefish
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby kuttlefish » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:51 pm

Got my packet in the mail today. Graduate Fellowship Scholarship!! That's the out of state waiver + $4k stipend. Now, it says I'll be working in the administration and library departments. To everyone else who got the scholarship, does your letter say this too or are there different positions listed? I only ask because I applied for the Tech center job and wrote my essay for that position. I'm not complaining by any means, all money is green... I'm just trying to figure out how this position works exactly.

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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby wired » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:19 pm

seancris wrote:
drinion wrote:
rabbitrun wrote: Also what's up with W&Ms dropping rank. I'm not that much of a rankings whore, but it's still kind of concerning?


From what I have read, their employment numbers declined disproportionately compared to a lot of other schools because they don't hire recent grads to fluff their numbers.


Agree, except for the bolded. Many of the other schools in the region whose employment numbers declined less than W&M don't fluff their numbers with law school hires. W&L and Richmond both come to mind.

W&M grads took a real big hit last year, not sure why. Awaiting this year's numbers with interest.


W&M student.

Not here to dig on W&L (they're a great school, might be right for you, etc. etc.) but I wanted to point out that they did "fluff their numbers with law school hires." Check their employment data for 2011 (most recent USNWR numbers) and you'll see that 12 students (or roughly a bump of 10 percentage points for their class) were in "Fellowships" that were distributed by the school. See http://law.wlu.edu/admissions/ninemonthdata.asp.

W&M on the other hand, had 0 in those positions. See http://law.wm.edu/careerservices/docume ... le2011.pdf. (Richmond also does not have any in school-funded positions. See http://law.richmond.edu/career/outcomes.html.)

The 10 percentage point bump that W&L received from funding student positions almost certainly accounts for the entire disparity between it and W&M. W&M had scores equal to or higher than W&L in every USNWR category with the exception of employment and one other insignificant one that I can't think of.

Now, none of that is to say, "You should definitely pick W&M over W&L." I think there's a lot of individual factors that should go into that decision. I just don't want anyone in this thread having the impression that there's some ghost factor that is tanking W&M in the rankings compared to W&L. Both are great schools, particularly for the mid-Atlantic so best of luck deciding between them for those who have that choice.

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kingsfield69
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby kingsfield69 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:06 pm

Admitted back in Aug, withdrew app today. Hope this creates an opportunity for one of you!

Good luck to all!

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seancris
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby seancris » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:15 am

wired wrote:W&M student.

Not here to dig on W&L (they're a great school, might be right for you, etc. etc.) but I wanted to point out that they did "fluff their numbers with law school hires." Check their employment data for 2011 (most recent USNWR numbers) and you'll see that 12 students (or roughly a bump of 10 percentage points for their class) were in "Fellowships" that were distributed by the school. See http://law.wlu.edu/admissions/ninemonthdata.asp.

W&M on the other hand, had 0 in those positions. See http://law.wm.edu/careerservices/docume ... le2011.pdf. (Richmond also does not have any in school-funded positions. See http://law.richmond.edu/career/outcomes.html.)

The 10 percentage point bump that W&L received from funding student positions almost certainly accounts for the entire disparity between it and W&M. W&M had scores equal to or higher than W&L in every USNWR category with the exception of employment and one other insignificant one that I can't think of.

Now, none of that is to say, "You should definitely pick W&M over W&L." I think there's a lot of individual factors that should go into that decision. I just don't want anyone in this thread having the impression that there's some ghost factor that is tanking W&M in the rankings compared to W&L. Both are great schools, particularly for the mid-Atlantic so best of luck deciding between them for those who have that choice.


Thanks for the info.

It looks like the W&L fellowships weren't included in LST's score report, which is what I was using to compare W&M to W&L. If you included the fellowships, W&L would have 65% employment or so.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=va

steakandchicken
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby steakandchicken » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:26 am

kuttlefish wrote:Got my packet in the mail today. Graduate Fellowship Scholarship!! That's the out of state waiver + $4k stipend. Now, it says I'll be working in the administration and library departments. To everyone else who got the scholarship, does your letter say this too or are there different positions listed? I only ask because I applied for the Tech center job and wrote my essay for that position. I'm not complaining by any means, all money is green... I'm just trying to figure out how this position works exactly.


Congrats Kuttle!

I'm a public librarian who is applying for the Wolf Law Librarian Fellowship but I'm waiting on my Dec LSAT scores. They said you'd be working in the library? That makes me nervous that you got the Wolf Law Fellowship! Maybe they combine positions if they don't have enough people applying? The Law Librarian fellowship is a big draw for me so I hope it is still up for grabs. :?

I'd also like to find out more about these positions and how they work. Maybe a current W&M student can shed some light? (how many slots are there? what are the positions like?).

ks2499
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby ks2499 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:32 am

steakandchicken wrote:
kuttlefish wrote:Got my packet in the mail today. Graduate Fellowship Scholarship!! That's the out of state waiver + $4k stipend. Now, it says I'll be working in the administration and library departments. To everyone else who got the scholarship, does your letter say this too or are there different positions listed? I only ask because I applied for the Tech center job and wrote my essay for that position. I'm not complaining by any means, all money is green... I'm just trying to figure out how this position works exactly.


Congrats Kuttle!

I'm a public librarian who is applying for the Wolf Law Librarian Fellowship but I'm waiting on my Dec LSAT scores. They said you'd be working in the library? That makes me nervous that you got the Wolf Law Fellowship! Maybe they combine positions if they don't have enough people applying? The Law Librarian fellowship is a big draw for me so I hope it is still up for grabs. :?

I'd also like to find out more about these positions and how they work. Maybe a current W&M student can shed some light? (how many slots are there? what are the positions like?).


I wouldn't worry - all the graduate fellowship letters say that. I'm pretty sure it just means putting books back in the stacks and whatnot. It also says you have the chance to work on research projects your 2nd and 3rd years.

steakandchicken
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby steakandchicken » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:47 am

I wouldn't worry - all the graduate fellowship letters say that. I'm pretty sure it just means putting books back in the stacks and whatnot. It also says you have the chance to work on research projects your 2nd and 3rd years.


Thanks! I hope the Wolf Law Librarian fellowship has some opportunities to do more professional things since it requires the MS in information science. Putting books back on the shelf, while a zen activity, won't add to my resume at all.

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sl5uw13
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby sl5uw13 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:38 pm

complete today :)

wired
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby wired » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:40 pm

steakandchicken wrote:
I wouldn't worry - all the graduate fellowship letters say that. I'm pretty sure it just means putting books back in the stacks and whatnot. It also says you have the chance to work on research projects your 2nd and 3rd years.


Thanks! I hope the Wolf Law Librarian fellowship has some opportunities to do more professional things since it requires the MS in information science. Putting books back on the shelf, while a zen activity, won't add to my resume at all.


There are generic fellowships where students work in the library doing the shelving work. That is different than the Wolf Law Librarian fellowship. I would keep hope alive on the WLL still being available because it sounds like the generic graduate fellowships as opposed to the specific WLL fellowship.

steakandchicken
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby steakandchicken » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:38 pm

wired wrote:
steakandchicken wrote:
I wouldn't worry - all the graduate fellowship letters say that. I'm pretty sure it just means putting books back in the stacks and whatnot. It also says you have the chance to work on research projects your 2nd and 3rd years.


Thanks! I hope the Wolf Law Librarian fellowship has some opportunities to do more professional things since it requires the MS in information science. Putting books back on the shelf, while a zen activity, won't add to my resume at all.


There are generic fellowships where students work in the library doing the shelving work. That is different than the Wolf Law Librarian fellowship. I would keep hope alive on the WLL still being available because it sounds like the generic graduate fellowships as opposed to the specific WLL fellowship.


Thanks for the clarification - there is so little information available about these fellowships that I was a bit nervous that they even awarded them. But this is good news, thanks again!

zoomzoom88
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby zoomzoom88 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:39 pm

haven't gone into review but submitted 10/22 should i call to check up?

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kuttlefish
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Re: William & Mary c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby kuttlefish » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:31 pm

steakandchicken wrote:Thanks! I hope the Wolf Law Librarian fellowship has some opportunities to do more professional things since it requires the MS in information science. Putting books back on the shelf, while a zen activity, won't add to my resume at all.


My letter didn't say anything about the Wolf Law Librarian fellowship, nor do I have an MS, so I'm pretty sure I didn't get that one. Good luck to you!

My background is in IT along with some computer lab type jobs when I first left undergrad... that's why I was hoping for the tech center job.

My impression is that I got one of the generic fellowships that will involve putting books on shelves and stuffing envelopes, etc. My thought/hope is that everyone starts this way and that they move you to the more specialized positions in your 2L and 3L years. I was just wondering if I was locked out of the tech-center altogether.




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