Yale c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle) Forum

[Elston Gunn]

earliest people herad back last year? was it a call?

The week before Christmas. Yep, a call.

[WhatOurBodiesAreFor]

Would it be completely obtuse for me, with a 167 and 3.8, to apply? I have a DS, decent softs and PS, and my own story and all of that. But, yeah, it's Yale.

I do have a fee waiver, so if I have any sort of shot at all I'll give it a shot and pay the $20 reporting fee.

[elterrible78]

Would it be completely obtuse for me, with a 167 and 3.8, to apply? I have a DS, decent softs and PS, and my own story and all of that. But, yeah, it's Yale.

I do have a fee waiver, so if I have any sort of shot at all I'll give it a shot and pay the $20 reporting fee.

I mean, it's a really, really long shot, but you already know that. For $20, I'd want to give myself the peace of mind of knowing that I'd tried. Go for it!

[abcde12345]

Hello, quick question. I asked on another thread and someone told me 11pt font for PS is fine for schools besides Harvard. Does Yale accept 11pt? Is 12 better? I realize this sounds neurotic, but I'm so used to 12pt font standard in college that I just can't imagine any other being allowed, and I don't want to look like I'm "cheating" with the length.

[Mr. Elshal]

Hello, quick question. I asked on another thread and someone told me 11pt font for PS is fine for schools besides Harvard. Does Yale accept 11pt? Is 12 better? I realize this sounds neurotic, but I'm so used to 12pt font standard in college that I just can't imagine any other being allowed, and I don't want to look like I'm "cheating" with the length.

If I remember correctly, I think I used the Georgia font at 11.5, and it actually looked larger than Times New Roman at 12. I think it depends on the font, but I also think they probably won't ding you for an extra half a pt. on your font size, especially if you weave a succinct and compelling narrative. If your PS just went on and on, rambling with no apparent purpose, I can imagine somebody may be like "crap, how did [abcde12345] fit so much junk into here?" But if it's to the point and interesting, I don't think they'll stop to ask how many half points you've deviated from the standard.

[abcde12345]

If I remember correctly, I think I used the Georgia font at 11.5, and it actually looked larger than Times New Roman at 12. I think it depends on the font, but I also think they probably won't ding you for an extra half a pt. on your font size, especially if you weave a succinct and compelling narrative. If your PS just went on and on, rambling with no apparent purpose, I can imagine somebody may be like "crap, how did [abcde12345] fit so much junk into here?" But if it's to the point and interesting, I don't think they'll stop to ask how many half points you've deviated from the standard.

Haha, thanks.

[hopeful16]

Does anyone know how long the optional "Post-school Activities" section should be?

[Mdenis1]

Does anyone know how long the optional "Post-school Activities" section should be?

I was wondering this too. I did mine bullet points style and its about 5 lines long.

[lizaregina]

Hello, quick question. I asked on another thread and someone told me 11pt font for PS is fine for schools besides Harvard. Does Yale accept 11pt? Is 12 better? I realize this sounds neurotic, but I'm so used to 12pt font standard in college that I just can't imagine any other being allowed, and I don't want to look like I'm "cheating" with the length.

If I remember correctly, I think I used the Georgia font at 11.5, and it actually looked larger than Times New Roman at 12. I think it depends on the font, but I also think they probably won't ding you for an extra half a pt. on your font size, especially if you weave a succinct and compelling narrative. If your PS just went on and on, rambling with no apparent purpose, I can imagine somebody may be like "crap, how did [abcde12345] fit so much junk into here?" But if it's to the point and interesting, I don't think they'll stop to ask how many half points you've deviated from the standard.

Yeah, mine was Times New Roman, 11 pt font in order to make it fit perfectly on 2 pages. None of the schools commented on it.

[VasaVasori]

Post removed.

[abcde12345]

AFAIK, Yale doesn't limit your PS to two pages...

And what's the deal with Harvard? IIRC, their app says 11pt font is fine...

ETA: Just looked at your post in the other thread... I think 11 is fine for Harvard, it's not noticeable and they say it's alright. Yale I went a bit over two pages (probably an extra quarter of a page) with 12 size font. Then again, I'm not terribly concerned because I'm not likely to be admitted no matter what I do. Overall, I don't think this will affect your outcome one way or the other, provided that you stay within each school's specified parameters and don't do something ridiculous.

Yeah but 2 pages looks nice b/c it has a feeling of brevity.

Also, 11pt is necessary for harvard. Check their app instructions under PS.

[ssanonymous]

I know YLS starts admitting people just before Christmas break, but does YLS also reject people around that time? It sounds harsh to do it before Christmas, but a rejection is a better gift than waiting.

[Anonymous4444]

[darkgrayclouds]

AFAIK, Yale doesn't limit your PS to two pages...

And what's the deal with Harvard? IIRC, their app says 11pt font is fine...

ETA: Just looked at your post in the other thread... I think 11 is fine for Harvard, it's not noticeable and they say it's alright. Yale I went a bit over two pages (probably an extra quarter of a page) with 12 size font. Then again, I'm not terribly concerned because I'm not likely to be admitted no matter what I do. Overall, I don't think this will affect your outcome one way or the other, provided that you stay within each school's specified parameters and don't do something ridiculous.

Yeah but 2 pages looks nice b/c it has a feeling of brevity.

Also, 11pt is necessary for harvard. Check their app instructions under PS.

I don't want to sidetrack this thread, but I just wanted to point out that 11-point font is not necessary for the Harvard application. This is what the Harvard instructions say: "Limit your statement to two pages, typed, double-spaced, minimum 11-point font and 1-inch margins."

[Cicero76]

So I submitted this week. Have to roll the dice after all--nothing like an $85 peace of mind letter. Yale takes forever, right? As in it could be March before I hear from them?

[Mdenis1]

Has anyone received their status checker yet? If so, how long did it take to get it?

[vzapana]

No status check; you just gotta wait

[Mdenis1]

No status check; you just gotta wait

Ooh! Thanks for the info. Do they send you an email to at least tell you when your application is complete?

[elterrible78]

No status check; you just gotta wait

Ooh! Thanks for the info. Do they send you an email to at least tell you when your application is complete?

They sure do, but it seems to take a little longer than the average school.

[ssanonymous]

No status check; you just gotta wait

Ooh! Thanks for the info. Do they send you an email to at least tell you when your application is complete?

They sure do, but it seems to take a little longer than the average school.

You think? It takes about a week for an app to go complete at YLS. It seems to take much longer at Columbia, NYU, Michigan, etc. Here's hoping for a fast turn around.

On another note - if you submitted your app shorty after Nov. 1st but don't receive a phone call during the first round of calls in late December, should you assume you're either rejected or on the waitlist?

[Lavitz]

On another note - if you submitted your app shorty after Nov. 1st but don't receive a phone call during the first round of calls in late December, should you assume you're either rejected or on the waitlist?

No, you're probably just undergoing faculty review like most applicants, which takes forever.

[ssanonymous]

On another note - if you submitted your app shorty after Nov. 1st but don't receive a phone call during the first round of calls in late December, should you assume you're either rejected or on the waitlist?

No, you're probably just undergoing faculty review like most applicants, which takes forever.

But that would mean only presumptive admits get accepted the first round because most applicants have to go through faculty review. From reading Dean Rangappa's blog, that doesn't seem possible because presumptive admits only account for 50-80 spots of an entering class and submit date isn't a factor. Nov. 1st was the first day apps could be submitted, so presumably those who submitted between 11/01-11/07 will be apart of the first batch of apps that are read and the first to hear back. I mean, if some faculty reviews take longer than others then that could account for the lag. This is all obsessive speculation though.

[Lavitz]

But that would mean only presumptive admits get accepted the first round because most applicants have to go through faculty review. From reading Dean Rangappa's blog, that doesn't seem possible because presumptive admits only account for 50-80 spots of an entering class and submit date isn't a factor. Nov. 1st was the first day apps could be submitted, so presumably those who submitted between 11/01-11/07 will be apart of the first batch of apps that are read and the first to hear back. I mean, if some faculty reviews take longer than others then that could account for the lag. This is all obsessive speculation though.

That's where I would actually disagree with you. To me, it does seem possible. I don't know exactly how many people are accepted in December, but I would not be surprised at all if it only turned out to be somewhere around 25 people. Last year, they actually started accepting applications on Oct 15th, not Nov. 1st. The deadline was Feb. 15th. That's a 4 month window to apply.

The first admit calls went out on Dec. 9th, then continued on two other days in December. For the sake of the argument, assume that only people who submitted between Oct. 15th and Nov. 15th were eligible to be included in the first batch of acceptances. That would be one-quarter of the cycle reflected in those calls, but not one-quarter of the cycle's applicants: of the three pages of applicants on LSN , about an entire page submitted before 11/15. So it appears more applicants applied earlier rather than later.

I count 4 people on LSN (and 6 people in last year's TLS thread) who reported decisions in December. Obviously LSN and TLS aren't representative; there were definitely other admits. But even so, that seems like a rather small figure. So I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be 25 people or less. Multiply that by four and yes, you get 100 auto-admits for the cycle instead of 50-80, but as I pointed out before, the applications didn't look spread out evenly throughout the cycle. So multiply by three and you get 75, which is within the 50-80 range. Also keep in mind that I pulled the 25 number out of thin air--it could be 20.

Finally, a number of LSN profiles reported submitting in October, and getting accepted in February. (This was probably all I needed to write to respond to the original question, but I'm keeping the rest now that I wrote it lol).

tl;dr: Unless you know just how many people got admitted in December, I wouldn't say that it doesn't seem possible for them to all be presumptive admits. It actually seems very likely to me, and I'm also pretty sure this has always been the TLS conventional wisdom.

[ssanonymous]

But that would mean only presumptive admits get accepted the first round because most applicants have to go through faculty review. From reading Dean Rangappa's blog, that doesn't seem possible because presumptive admits only account for 50-80 spots of an entering class and submit date isn't a factor. Nov. 1st was the first day apps could be submitted, so presumably those who submitted between 11/01-11/07 will be apart of the first batch of apps that are read and the first to hear back. I mean, if some faculty reviews take longer than others then that could account for the lag. This is all obsessive speculation though.

That's where I would actually disagree with you. To me, it does seem possible. I don't know exactly how many people are accepted in December, but I would not be surprised at all if it only turned out to be somewhere around 25 people. Last year, they actually started accepting applications on Oct 15th, not Nov. 1st. The deadline was Feb. 15th. That's a 4 month window to apply.

The first admit calls went out on Dec. 9th, then continued on two other days in December. For the sake of the argument, assume that only people who submitted between Oct. 15th and Nov. 15th were eligible to be included in the first batch of acceptances. That would be one-quarter of the cycle reflected in those calls, but not one-quarter of the cycle's applicants: of the three pages of applicants on LSN , about an entire page submitted before 11/15. So it appears more applicants applied earlier rather than later.

I count 4 people on LSN (and 6 people in last year's TLS thread) who reported decisions in December. Obviously LSN and TLS aren't representative; there were definitely other admits. But even so, that seems like a rather small figure. So I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be 25 people or less. Multiply that by four and yes, you get 100 auto-admits for the cycle instead of 50-80, but as I pointed out before, the applications didn't look spread out evenly throughout the cycle. So multiply by three and you get 75, which is within the 50-80 range. Also keep in mind that I pulled the 25 number out of thin air--it could be 20.

Finally, a number of LSN profiles reported submitting in October, and getting accepted in February. (This was probably all I needed to write to respond to the original question, but I'm keeping the rest now that I wrote it lol).

tl;dr: Unless you know just how many people got admitted in December, I wouldn't say that it doesn't seem possible for them to all be presumptive admits. It actually seems very likely to me, and I'm also pretty sure this has always been the TLS conventional wisdom.

Lavitz, thanks for the information. I was always under the assumption that YLS reads apps as they come in and didn't have a "hold" pile like other law schools i.e. you either get accepted, rejected, or waitlisted as soon as your file is reviewed. That's why I'm surprised to hear that someone submitted in October and heard back in February. I do still think it's rare to hear back that late after submitting, but it does make the admissions cycle less predictable.

[hdivine]

But that would mean only presumptive admits get accepted the first round because most applicants have to go through faculty review. From reading Dean Rangappa's blog, that doesn't seem possible because presumptive admits only account for 50-80 spots of an entering class and submit date isn't a factor. Nov. 1st was the first day apps could be submitted, so presumably those who submitted between 11/01-11/07 will be apart of the first batch of apps that are read and the first to hear back. I mean, if some faculty reviews take longer than others then that could account for the lag. This is all obsessive speculation though.

That's where I would actually disagree with you. To me, it does seem possible. I don't know exactly how many people are accepted in December, but I would not be surprised at all if it only turned out to be somewhere around 25 people. Last year, they actually started accepting applications on Oct 15th, not Nov. 1st. The deadline was Feb. 15th. That's a 4 month window to apply.

The first admit calls went out on Dec. 9th, then continued on two other days in December. For the sake of the argument, assume that only people who submitted between Oct. 15th and Nov. 15th were eligible to be included in the first batch of acceptances. That would be one-quarter of the cycle reflected in those calls, but not one-quarter of the cycle's applicants: of the three pages of applicants on LSN , about an entire page submitted before 11/15. So it appears more applicants applied earlier rather than later.

I count 4 people on LSN (and 6 people in last year's TLS thread) who reported decisions in December. Obviously LSN and TLS aren't representative; there were definitely other admits. But even so, that seems like a rather small figure. So I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be 25 people or less. Multiply that by four and yes, you get 100 auto-admits for the cycle instead of 50-80, but as I pointed out before, the applications didn't look spread out evenly throughout the cycle. So multiply by three and you get 75, which is within the 50-80 range. Also keep in mind that I pulled the 25 number out of thin air--it could be 20.

Finally, a number of LSN profiles reported submitting in October, and getting accepted in February. (This was probably all I needed to write to respond to the original question, but I'm keeping the rest now that I wrote it lol).

tl;dr: Unless you know just how many people got admitted in December, I wouldn't say that it doesn't seem possible for them to all be presumptive admits. It actually seems very likely to me, and I'm also pretty sure this has always been the TLS conventional wisdom.

I'll second that. It seems likely that the only people who receive calls in December are presumptive admits. If you're competitive but not presumptive, they probably want to hold onto you and wait for more people to input their applications. They don't want to fill too much of their class early and have an uncharacteristically strong applicant pool at the end of the cycle.

Also, submit date isn't a factor in acceptance rates, but it is a factor in admission date. Like above, they can't fill up their determined amount of presumptive admits early. They have to factor in the fact that there will be presumptive admits late in the cycle. I think the above posters are right. We'll see very few admits in December, and most, if not all, will be presumptive admits.