University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

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Kajual
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby Kajual » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:48 pm

msowins wrote:So after not hearing anything for a month after my acceptance, I finally called admissions and found out that I did not get any scholarship money...What to do now? I cannot afford full-tuition! 42K/yr x 3yrs = 126K...yeah right! :cry:

Any point in sending a letter to the Dean asking to be reconsidered for scholarship money? Miami truly is one of my top choices, if not the top choice. I've heard they're usually out of money by Xmas though...




If you can't get scholarship money, the school is not worth 126k - unless you have a great job waiting for you at time of graduation. That sort of debt is not worth the degree from Mia. Don't get me wrong, I went on a visit and loved the atmosphere, but 126k and living in high priced MIA??? You will be pushing the needle more towards 180k-200k by time of graduation. OUCH!

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espressocream
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby espressocream » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:32 pm

Got a letter in the mail from this girl from my hometown, class of 2010 or something, who offered to talk to me about the school. Anyone else get something similar?

I'll ask her about the scholarship situation/stacking.

talesofyore
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby talesofyore » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:40 pm

espressocream wrote:Got a letter in the mail from this girl from my hometown, class of 2010 or something, who offered to talk to me about the school. Anyone else get something similar?

I'll ask her about the scholarship situation/stacking.


I got it too.

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scottyc66
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby scottyc66 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:41 pm

espressocream wrote:Got a letter in the mail from this girl from my hometown, class of 2010 or something, who offered to talk to me about the school. Anyone else get something similar?

I'll ask her about the scholarship situation/stacking.

Hasn't section stacking been confirmed already by a current student?

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espressocream
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby espressocream » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:10 pm

scottyc66 wrote:
espressocream wrote:Got a letter in the mail from this girl from my hometown, class of 2010 or something, who offered to talk to me about the school. Anyone else get something similar?

I'll ask her about the scholarship situation/stacking.

Hasn't section stacking been confirmed already by a current student?


Yeah I'm just desperately hoping it's not actually true :p

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scottyc66
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby scottyc66 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:42 pm

espressocream wrote:
scottyc66 wrote:
espressocream wrote:Got a letter in the mail from this girl from my hometown, class of 2010 or something, who offered to talk to me about the school. Anyone else get something similar?

I'll ask her about the scholarship situation/stacking.

Hasn't section stacking been confirmed already by a current student?


Yeah I'm just desperately hoping it's not actually true :p

I hear ya, I doubt any school will admit to section stacking but I believe you can ask them how many 1Ls retain their scholarships.

Username123
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby Username123 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:59 pm

I took a tour of UM law today. Emily Horowitz and Daniel Diaz were very helpful and answered every question asked. They were unbelievably passionate about UM and showed how the reputation and prestige of the school isn't simply regional, but somewhat national too. If you really want to do well with your legal career and learn the law, I think Miami is a great spot.

I also spoke with Therese Lambert in the admissions department. She was VERY helpful. She listened to my situation regarding where I am thinking of attending and she was truly caring and tried to advise me as my mother would. She understood that I have been admitted to Miami with no scholarship money and agreed/advised me that I am still making a good decision if I weren't to attend UM and instead attend FIU, or another school with a decent reputation and low cost. She also wanted to clarify that despite the rumors on this board, UM doesn't section stack (put all of the scholarship students in one section). She claimed that section stacking is just plain wrong in an ethical sense and that no matter the distribution of students in each section, students will either lose or keep their scholarship. According to her, if a student doesnt make the 3.2 GPA, they can appeal the revoking of the $$$. She seemed passionate about the strict 3.2 GPA scholarship stipulation, however. She said that she loves the top-third stipulations because if you are offered a scholarship for your first year, you should be intelligent enough and work hard enough to keep it for the following year. She also said a great thing about the scholarship program is that the students who don't maintain a 3.2 GPA, inevitably lose their scholarship, wherein the funds could then be given to students who did well their 1L year who were never initially offered a scholarship going into law school (like myself).

To sum up, the law school seemed very close-knit in the sense of its community and the alumni network appears to be strong, no matter where you plan to practice. I love the campus, the feel, the education, and the administration. I'm very happy I took this tour today. Emily, Daniel, and Therese make it easy to want to be a Cane.

sofl_law
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby sofl_law » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:18 pm

Uschoolqb10 wrote:I took a tour of UM law today. Emily Horowitz and Daniel Diaz were very helpful and answered every question asked. They were unbelievably passionate about UM and showed how the reputation and prestige of the school isn't simply regional, but somewhat national too. If you really want to do well with your legal career and learn the law, I think Miami is a great spot.

I also spoke with Therese Lambert in the admissions department. She was VERY helpful. She listened to my situation regarding where I am thinking of attending and she was truly caring and tried to advise me as my mother would. She understood that I have been admitted to Miami with no scholarship money and agreed/advised me that I am still making a good decision if I weren't to attend UM and instead attend FIU, or another school with a decent reputation and low cost. She also wanted to clarify that despite the rumors on this board, UM doesn't section stack (put all of the scholarship students in one section). She claimed that section stacking is just plain wrong in an ethical sense and that no matter the distribution of students in each section, students will either lose or keep their scholarship. According to her, if a student doesnt make the 3.2 GPA, they can appeal the revoking of the $$$. She seemed passionate about the strict 3.2 GPA scholarship stipulation, however. She said that she loves the top-third stipulations because if you are offered a scholarship for your first year, you should be intelligent enough and work hard enough to keep it for the following year. She also said a great thing about the scholarship program is that the students who don't maintain a 3.2 GPA, inevitably lose their scholarship, wherein the funds could then be given to students who did well their 1L year who were never initially offered a scholarship going into law school (like myself).

To sum up, the law school seemed very close-knit in the sense of its community and the alumni network appears to be strong, no matter where you plan to practice. I love the campus, the feel, the education, and the administration. I'm very happy I took this tour today. Emily, Daniel, and Therese make it easy to want to be a Cane.


I spoke with Therese Lambert as well. She really is amazing. I honestly don't believe in the section stacking and I feel like if I lose my scholarship, oh well, obviously I wasn't doing something right and something else will fall in place for me. Sorry, I walk by faith and not by sight. So, if you're passionate about the school and what you can become there, then go for it! Don't worry about losing your scholarship, worry about doing all you can to be the best you can be in and out of law school.

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slawww
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby slawww » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Uschoolqb10 wrote:I took a tour of UM law today. Emily Horowitz and Daniel Diaz were very helpful and answered every question asked. They were unbelievably passionate about UM and showed how the reputation and prestige of the school isn't simply regional, but somewhat national too. If you really want to do well with your legal career and learn the law, I think Miami is a great spot.

I also spoke with Therese Lambert in the admissions department. She was VERY helpful. She listened to my situation regarding where I am thinking of attending and she was truly caring and tried to advise me as my mother would. She understood that I have been admitted to Miami with no scholarship money and agreed/advised me that I am still making a good decision if I weren't to attend UM and instead attend FIU, or another school with a decent reputation and low cost. She also wanted to clarify that despite the rumors on this board, UM doesn't section stack (put all of the scholarship students in one section). She claimed that section stacking is just plain wrong in an ethical sense and that no matter the distribution of students in each section, students will either lose or keep their scholarship. According to her, if a student doesnt make the 3.2 GPA, they can appeal the revoking of the $$$. She seemed passionate about the strict 3.2 GPA scholarship stipulation, however. She said that she loves the top-third stipulations because if you are offered a scholarship for your first year, you should be intelligent enough and work hard enough to keep it for the following year. She also said a great thing about the scholarship program is that the students who don't maintain a 3.2 GPA, inevitably lose their scholarship, wherein the funds could then be given to students who did well their 1L year who were never initially offered a scholarship going into law school (like myself).

To sum up, the law school seemed very close-knit in the sense of its community and the alumni network appears to be strong, no matter where you plan to practice. I love the campus, the feel, the education, and the administration. I'm very happy I took this tour today. Emily, Daniel, and Therese make it easy to want to be a Cane.


You do realize that they're essentially law school salesmen right? I would be wary of what any admissions dean tells me at any school. Not to be a downer, congrats on your acceptance! But, tuition at UM is astronomical, especially in such a rough market. 3 years at FIU Law, granted a lower ranked school, is equal to only one year at UM. I think they best way to decide where to attend/what cost, is to calculate how much you would take out in loans, and then calculate how much you would be paying per month. When I did that, and saw how much a monthly loan would cost, on top of house, car, etc. payments, I know I definitely prefer the most debt averse route.

Good luck! I'm from South Florida, and have always wanted to go to the U, but the price tag scares me.

Aroldis105
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby Aroldis105 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:03 am

The stipulation is bullshit and insulting. It is not about whether or not you think you can achieve a 3.2, it is about the relationship between a school and its students.
The only other GPA stipulation I've heard of is a 2.8 at some schools. Why a 3.2? To motivate students? Doubtful, Miami is one of the most competitive legal job markets in the country, no one needs any more motivation (pressure) to perform well. Secondly, Miami's ranking and standing in the legal world is in no way influenced by the GPA of its students.
This is simply an opportunity for Miami to make more money. They know that there are going to be students who work hard, pass their classes and become talented law students who are still going to fall short of the mark.
What happens then is atrocious. A school that brings in millions of dollars a year steals money from young adult students who have no options besides paying 40k a year for the 69th best school in the country or drop out (extremely high 9.9 attrition rate after L1).
A law schools scholarship is a commitment that a school makes to a student to entice a student to make a commitment to them. With admissions down I don't understand how a school thinks its in a position to do try to invert this relationship.

penelope1
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby penelope1 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:19 am

Aroldis105 wrote:The stipulation is bullshit and insulting. It is not about whether or not you think you can achieve a 3.2, it is about the relationship between a school and its students.
The only other GPA stipulation I've heard of is a 2.8 at some schools. Why a 3.2? To motivate students? Doubtful, Miami is one of the most competitive legal job markets in the country, no one needs any more motivation (pressure) to perform well. Secondly, Miami's ranking and standing in the legal world is in no way influenced by the GPA of its students.
This is simply an opportunity for Miami to make more money. They know that there are going to be students who work hard, pass their classes and become talented law students who are still going to fall short of the mark.
What happens then is atrocious. A school that brings in millions of dollars a year steals money from young adult students who have no options besides paying 40k a year for the 69th best school in the country or drop out (extremely high 9.9 attrition rate after L1).
A law schools scholarship is a commitment that a school makes to a student to entice a student to make a commitment to them. With admissions down I don't understand how a school thinks its in a position to do try to invert this relationship.


+1
Where did you get that attrition rate number? Would be great to know % of students at Miami losing their scholarships. Huge risk accepting this scholarship...anyone know if the stip is negotiable?

Aroldis105
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby Aroldis105 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:52 am


penelope1
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby penelope1 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:24 pm

Aroldis105 wrote:http://miami.lawschoolnumbers.com
--LinkRemoved--



Thanks, that's helpful.

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BullShitWithBravado
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby BullShitWithBravado » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:39 pm

sofl_law wrote:
Uschoolqb10 wrote:I took a tour of UM law today. Emily Horowitz and Daniel Diaz were very helpful and answered every question asked. They were unbelievably passionate about UM and showed how the reputation and prestige of the school isn't simply regional, but somewhat national too. If you really want to do well with your legal career and learn the law, I think Miami is a great spot.

I also spoke with Therese Lambert in the admissions department. She was VERY helpful. She listened to my situation regarding where I am thinking of attending and she was truly caring and tried to advise me as my mother would. She understood that I have been admitted to Miami with no scholarship money and agreed/advised me that I am still making a good decision if I weren't to attend UM and instead attend FIU, or another school with a decent reputation and low cost. She also wanted to clarify that despite the rumors on this board, UM doesn't section stack (put all of the scholarship students in one section). She claimed that section stacking is just plain wrong in an ethical sense and that no matter the distribution of students in each section, students will either lose or keep their scholarship. According to her, if a student doesnt make the 3.2 GPA, they can appeal the revoking of the $$$. She seemed passionate about the strict 3.2 GPA scholarship stipulation, however. She said that she loves the top-third stipulations because if you are offered a scholarship for your first year, you should be intelligent enough and work hard enough to keep it for the following year. She also said a great thing about the scholarship program is that the students who don't maintain a 3.2 GPA, inevitably lose their scholarship, wherein the funds could then be given to students who did well their 1L year who were never initially offered a scholarship going into law school (like myself).

To sum up, the law school seemed very close-knit in the sense of its community and the alumni network appears to be strong, no matter where you plan to practice. I love the campus, the feel, the education, and the administration. I'm very happy I took this tour today. Emily, Daniel, and Therese make it easy to want to be a Cane.


I spoke with Therese Lambert as well. She really is amazing. I honestly don't believe in the section stacking and I feel like if I lose my scholarship, oh well, obviously I wasn't doing something right and something else will fall in place for me. Sorry, I walk by faith and not by sight. So, if you're passionate about the school and what you can become there, then go for it! Don'tWorry about losing your scholarship, worry about not graduating with more debt that you can afford to pay off, and worry about doing all you can to be the best you can be in and out of law school.

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scottyc66
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby scottyc66 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:23 pm

Uschoolqb10 wrote:I took a tour of UM law today. Emily Horowitz and Daniel Diaz were very helpful and answered every question asked. They were unbelievably passionate about UM and showed how the reputation and prestige of the school isn't simply regional, but somewhat national too. If you really want to do well with your legal career and learn the law, I think Miami is a great spot.

I also spoke with Therese Lambert in the admissions department. She was VERY helpful. She listened to my situation regarding where I am thinking of attending and she was truly caring and tried to advise me as my mother would. She understood that I have been admitted to Miami with no scholarship money and agreed/advised me that I am still making a good decision if I weren't to attend UM and instead attend FIU, or another school with a decent reputation and low cost. She also wanted to clarify that despite the rumors on this board, UM doesn't section stack (put all of the scholarship students in one section). She claimed that section stacking is just plain wrong in an ethical sense and that no matter the distribution of students in each section, students will either lose or keep their scholarship. According to her, if a student doesnt make the 3.2 GPA, they can appeal the revoking of the $$$. She seemed passionate about the strict 3.2 GPA scholarship stipulation, however. She said that she loves the top-third stipulations because if you are offered a scholarship for your first year, you should be intelligent enough and work hard enough to keep it for the following year. She also said a great thing about the scholarship program is that the students who don't maintain a 3.2 GPA, inevitably lose their scholarship, wherein the funds could then be given to students who did well their 1L year who were never initially offered a scholarship going into law school (like myself).

To sum up, the law school seemed very close-knit in the sense of its community and the alumni network appears to be strong, no matter where you plan to practice. I love the campus, the feel, the education, and the administration. I'm very happy I took this tour today. Emily, Daniel, and Therese make it easy to want to be a Cane.

People like you are the reason why schools like Miami, TTT, and TTTT schools are still allowed to exist and function the way they do. If you go to Miami at sticker you'll have debt close to $200k and a job that doesn't give you the opportunity to repay that type of debt.

USER HAS BEEN BANNED FOR VIOLATING FORUM RULES

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Username123
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby Username123 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:52 pm

scottyc66 wrote:
Uschoolqb10 wrote:I took a tour of UM law today. Emily Horowitz and Daniel Diaz were very helpful and answered every question asked. They were unbelievably passionate about UM and showed how the reputation and prestige of the school isn't simply regional, but somewhat national too. If you really want to do well with your legal career and learn the law, I think Miami is a great spot.

I also spoke with Therese Lambert in the admissions department. She was VERY helpful. She listened to my situation regarding where I am thinking of attending and she was truly caring and tried to advise me as my mother would. She understood that I have been admitted to Miami with no scholarship money and agreed/advised me that I am still making a good decision if I weren't to attend UM and instead attend FIU, or another school with a decent reputation and low cost. She also wanted to clarify that despite the rumors on this board, UM doesn't section stack (put all of the scholarship students in one section). She claimed that section stacking is just plain wrong in an ethical sense and that no matter the distribution of students in each section, students will either lose or keep their scholarship. According to her, if a student doesnt make the 3.2 GPA, they can appeal the revoking of the $$$. She seemed passionate about the strict 3.2 GPA scholarship stipulation, however. She said that she loves the top-third stipulations because if you are offered a scholarship for your first year, you should be intelligent enough and work hard enough to keep it for the following year. She also said a great thing about the scholarship program is that the students who don't maintain a 3.2 GPA, inevitably lose their scholarship, wherein the funds could then be given to students who did well their 1L year who were never initially offered a scholarship going into law school (like myself).

To sum up, the law school seemed very close-knit in the sense of its community and the alumni network appears to be strong, no matter where you plan to practice. I love the campus, the feel, the education, and the administration. I'm very happy I took this tour today. Emily, Daniel, and Therese make it easy to want to be a Cane.

People like you are the reason why schools like Miami, TTT, and TTTT schools are still allowed to exist and function the way they do. If you go to Miami at sticker you'll have debt close to $200k and a job that doesn't give you the opportunity to repay that type of debt.


That's not true at all. Everyone here assumes that if someone goes to a school like Miami at sticker, they will be an average student with no legitimate job prospects following graduation. That's not always the case everyone! Two of my high school teammates want to UM Law and both have jobs paying around 90K to start and full benefits. One had a decent scholarship and one didn't have any scholarship up until his third year. They both accumulated roughly 100k in debt, but are both living perfectly fine. They aren't the prototypical rich lawyer, but they love what they do and are financially stable for now. By the time they are 30-35 years old, they will be doing very well financially, most likely living the life most aspiring attorneys dream of.

What is wrong with living that life? Making 90K a year as a starting salary at decent firms, paying back loans for a little while, and enjoying their occupation. They were average students at Miami and haven't had problems yet. I agree that people shouldn't go to a TTTT school under most to any circumstances, but going to a school like University of Miami will be fine.

So it's people like you who turn young adults away from CHASING THEIR DREAMS of becoming an attorney because unless its HYS, it isn't worth it. Shut up and let people have aspirations. Nothing is wrong with getting a JD from UM an working hard to enjoy success.

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slawww
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby slawww » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:04 pm

Uschoolqb10 wrote:
That's not true at all. Everyone here assumes that if someone goes to a school like Miami at sticker, they will be an average student with no legitimate job prospects following graduation. That's not always the case everyone! Two of my high school teammates want to UM Law and both have jobs paying around 90K to start and full benefits. One had a decent scholarship and one didn't have any scholarship up until his third year. They both accumulated roughly 100k in debt, but are both living perfectly fine. They aren't the prototypical rich lawyer, but they love what they do and are financially stable for now. By the time they are 30-35 years old, they will be doing very well financially, most likely living the life most aspiring attorneys dream of.

What is wrong with living that life? Making 90K a year as a starting salary at decent firms, paying back loans for a little while, and enjoying their occupation. They were average students at Miami and haven't had problems yet. I agree that people shouldn't go to a TTTT school under most to any circumstances, but going to a school like University of Miami will be fine.

So it's people like you who turn young adults away from CHASING THEIR DREAMS of becoming an attorney because unless its HYS, it isn't worth it. Shut up and let people have aspirations. Nothing is wrong with getting a JD from UM an working hard to enjoy success.


The problem is that you would not have only 100K in debt. Tuition alone would cost $140,000+. That's not even considering rent, which is expensive in Miami. So being conservative, that's about $10,000 +, plus living expenses, food, books, etc. Let's say maybe 5K a year? So 140,000 (tuition) + 30,000 (rent) 15,000 (books, food, etc.) That comes out to $185, 000, which I think is a conservative number. That's a lot of money.

Even if you're making $90,000, you're loan payment would be brutal on top of rent, car, insurance, living expenses, etc. Something to think about.

penelope1
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby penelope1 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:33 pm

slawww wrote:
Uschoolqb10 wrote:
That's not true at all. Everyone here assumes that if someone goes to a school like Miami at sticker, they will be an average student with no legitimate job prospects following graduation. That's not always the case everyone! Two of my high school teammates want to UM Law and both have jobs paying around 90K to start and full benefits. One had a decent scholarship and one didn't have any scholarship up until his third year. They both accumulated roughly 100k in debt, but are both living perfectly fine. They aren't the prototypical rich lawyer, but they love what they do and are financially stable for now. By the time they are 30-35 years old, they will be doing very well financially, most likely living the life most aspiring attorneys dream of.

What is wrong with living that life? Making 90K a year as a starting salary at decent firms, paying back loans for a little while, and enjoying their occupation. They were average students at Miami and haven't had problems yet. I agree that people shouldn't go to a TTTT school under most to any circumstances, but going to a school like University of Miami will be fine.

So it's people like you who turn young adults away from CHASING THEIR DREAMS of becoming an attorney because unless its HYS, it isn't worth it. Shut up and let people have aspirations. Nothing is wrong with getting a JD from UM an working hard to enjoy success.


The problem is that you would not have only 100K in debt. Tuition alone would cost $140,000+. That's not even considering rent, which is expensive in Miami. So being conservative, that's about $10,000 +, plus living expenses, food, books, etc. Let's say maybe 5K a year? So 140,000 (tuition) + 30,000 (rent) 15,000 (books, food, etc.) That comes out to $185, 000, which I think is a conservative number. That's a lot of money.

Even if you're making $90,000, you're loan payment would be brutal on top of rent, car, insurance, living expenses, etc. Something to think about.



Agree! Looking at Stetson, with $90,000 schol, and will still need max Stafford loans at $61,500 just for books, living expenses, which will be lower than Miami area....no way $100,000 is realistic. Did you apply to UF/FSU?

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scottyc66
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby scottyc66 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:07 pm

Uschoolqb10 wrote:That's not true at all. Everyone here assumes that if someone goes to a school like Miami at sticker, they will be an average student with no legitimate job prospects following graduation. That's not always the case everyone! Two of my high school teammates want to UM Law and both have jobs paying around 90K to start and full benefits. One had a decent scholarship and one didn't have any scholarship up until his third year. They both accumulated roughly 100k in debt, but are both living perfectly fine. They aren't the prototypical rich lawyer, but they love what they do and are financially stable for now. By the time they are 30-35 years old, they will be doing very well financially, most likely living the life most aspiring attorneys dream of.

What is wrong with living that life? Making 90K a year as a starting salary at decent firms, paying back loans for a little while, and enjoying their occupation. They were average students at Miami and haven't had problems yet. I agree that people shouldn't go to a TTTT school under most to any circumstances, but going to a school like University of Miami will be fine.

So it's people like you who turn young adults away from CHASING THEIR DREAMS of becoming an attorney because unless its HYS, it isn't worth it. Shut up and let people have aspirations. Nothing is wrong with getting a JD from UM an working hard to enjoy success.

Ya, I'm not at all how you characterize me. I'm looking at schools like UM (if I find out they don't section stack), Stetson, UF, FSU, etc. I'm just saying it's fiscally irresponsible to knowingly take on $200k worth of debt based on silly anecdotal evidence. Just trying your hardest and hoping things turn out positively isn't smart. Everyone goes into law school with your mindset and if you don't have the grades or LSAT score to prove you're smarter than your classmates then you're just blindly gambling. The fact is that probably upwards of 80% (very very conservative) of the non-scholly students at Miami will fall victim to soul-crushing debt without the job to bail them out of it.

Edit: Quit it with the dream smothering garbage btw. You aren't some young kid who has a big dream that I'm shooting down. You're a grown-up who did something incorrectly to get yourself in this position or you just aren't well-equipped for being a lawyer. You either didn't try hard enough in undergrad, didn't study hard enough for the LSAT, or just aren't intelligent enough for this kind of career.

Username123
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby Username123 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:39 pm

scottyc66 wrote:
Uschoolqb10 wrote:That's not true at all. Everyone here assumes that if someone goes to a school like Miami at sticker, they will be an average student with no legitimate job prospects following graduation. That's not always the case everyone! Two of my high school teammates want to UM Law and both have jobs paying around 90K to start and full benefits. One had a decent scholarship and one didn't have any scholarship up until his third year. They both accumulated roughly 100k in debt, but are both living perfectly fine. They aren't the prototypical rich lawyer, but they love what they do and are financially stable for now. By the time they are 30-35 years old, they will be doing very well financially, most likely living the life most aspiring attorneys dream of.

What is wrong with living that life? Making 90K a year as a starting salary at decent firms, paying back loans for a little while, and enjoying their occupation. They were average students at Miami and haven't had problems yet. I agree that people shouldn't go to a TTTT school under most to any circumstances, but going to a school like University of Miami will be fine.

So it's people like you who turn young adults away from CHASING THEIR DREAMS of becoming an attorney because unless its HYS, it isn't worth it. Shut up and let people have aspirations. Nothing is wrong with getting a JD from UM an working hard to enjoy success.

Ya, I'm not at all how you characterize me. I'm looking at schools like UM (if I find out they don't section stack), Stetson, UF, FSU, etc. I'm just saying it's fiscally irresponsible to knowingly take on $200k worth of debt based on silly anecdotal evidence. Just trying your hardest and hoping things turn out positively isn't smart. Everyone goes into law school with your mindset and if you don't have the grades or LSAT score to prove you're smarter than your classmates then you're just blindly gambling. The fact is that probably upwards of 80% (very very conservative) of the non-scholly students at Miami will fall victim to soul-crushing debt without the job to bail them out of it.

Edit: Quit it with the dream smothering garbage btw. You aren't some young kid who has a big dream that I'm shooting down. You're a grown-up who did something incorrectly to get yourself in this position or you just aren't well-equipped for being a lawyer. You either didn't try hard enough in undergrad, didn't study hard enough for the LSAT, or just aren't intelligent enough for this kind of career.


I'm not speaking for myself, but on behalf of the other prospective students in these forums. I'm perfectly fine with my situation. I am grateful to have strong options in regards to where I plan to attend law school. I also have a job with a family friend lined up for me following graduation. I'm going to work hard, as I have always done and I know I will do well with what's ahead of me. I just think it's sort of heartless how many of the "t14 or bust-ers" on this forum are condescending to many of the other members. Many people strive to go to law school and work hard (maybe even put themselves in a bind for a while) to achieve their goals. It just sucks that many people on this forum comment and respond to others with such condescending negativity. It's very common that graduates of TTT and even TTTT schools become successful, not only in their practice, but also financially - my boss for example, a graduate of Stetson Law and is now making 200K+ per year as a criminal defense attorney. It took him a while and a lot of struggle to get to where he is. But does he regret it? Of course not.

I understand it is smarter to look at your JD education from the perspective of an investor. I completely understand that and agree with many for the most part. But I also agree with people having faith and taking on future struggles to live out their dream. What's wrong with that?

My original intent was to tell others my opinion of UM Law. I won't be attending UM simply because I don't want to take on that much debt, as I feel I will be given the same opportunities graduating from schools where I wil accrue much less debt. I do believe that if you do well at Miami and take advantage of the privileges offered, no matter what, success will come.

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scottyc66
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby scottyc66 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:49 pm

Uschoolqb10 wrote:I'm not speaking for myself, but on behalf of the other prospective students in these forums. I'm perfectly fine with my situation. I am grateful to have strong options in regards to where I plan to attend law school. I also have a job with a family friend lined up for me following graduation. I'm going to work hard, as I have always done and I know I will do well with what's ahead of me. I just think it's sort of heartless how many of the "t14 or bust-ers" on this forum are condescending to many of the other members. Many people strive to go to law school and work hard (maybe even put themselves in a bind for a while) to achieve their goals. It just sucks that many people on this forum comment and respond to others with such condescending negativity. It's very common that graduates of TTT and even TTTT schools become successful, not only in their practice, but also financially - my boss for example, a graduate of Stetson Law and is now making 200K+ per year as a criminal defense attorney. It took him a while and a lot of struggle to get to where he is. But does he regret it? Of course not.

I understand it is smarter to look at your JD education from the perspective of an investor. I completely understand that and agree with many for the most part. But I also agree with people having faith and taking on future struggles to live out their dream. What's wrong with that?

My original intent was to tell others my opinion of UM Law. I won't be attending UM simply because I don't want to take on that much debt, as I feel I will be given the same opportunities graduating from schools where I wil accrue much less debt. I do believe that if you do well at Miami and take advantage of the privileges offered, no matter what, success will come.

Good to hear this entire back-and-forth was with someone who isn't even subscribing to their own awful advice. Your boss is also of a different generation and a different time. The economy is in a bad state, especially the legal market, which makes the situation very different. I'll end it there because this thread is supposed to be for applicants reporting their status and inevitably people will go to this school, and many other overpriced schools, at sticker.

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BullShitWithBravado
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby BullShitWithBravado » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:00 pm

Uschoolqb10 wrote:
scottyc66 wrote:
Uschoolqb10 wrote:I took a tour of UM law today. Emily Horowitz and Daniel Diaz were very helpful and answered every question asked. They were unbelievably passionate about UM and showed how the reputation and prestige of the school isn't simply regional, but somewhat national too. If you really want to do well with your legal career and learn the law, I think Miami is a great spot.

I also spoke with Therese Lambert in the admissions department. She was VERY helpful. She listened to my situation regarding where I am thinking of attending and she was truly caring and tried to advise me as my mother would. She understood that I have been admitted to Miami with no scholarship money and agreed/advised me that I am still making a good decision if I weren't to attend UM and instead attend FIU, or another school with a decent reputation and low cost. She also wanted to clarify that despite the rumors on this board, UM doesn't section stack (put all of the scholarship students in one section). She claimed that section stacking is just plain wrong in an ethical sense and that no matter the distribution of students in each section, students will either lose or keep their scholarship. According to her, if a student doesnt make the 3.2 GPA, they can appeal the revoking of the $$$. She seemed passionate about the strict 3.2 GPA scholarship stipulation, however. She said that she loves the top-third stipulations because if you are offered a scholarship for your first year, you should be intelligent enough and work hard enough to keep it for the following year. She also said a great thing about the scholarship program is that the students who don't maintain a 3.2 GPA, inevitably lose their scholarship, wherein the funds could then be given to students who did well their 1L year who were never initially offered a scholarship going into law school (like myself).

To sum up, the law school seemed very close-knit in the sense of its community and the alumni network appears to be strong, no matter where you plan to practice. I love the campus, the feel, the education, and the administration. I'm very happy I took this tour today. Emily, Daniel, and Therese make it easy to want to be a Cane.

People like you are the reason why schools like Miami, TTT, and TTTT schools are still allowed to exist and function the way they do. If you go to Miami at sticker you'll have debt close to $200k and a job that doesn't give you the opportunity to repay that type of debt.


That's not true at all. Everyone here assumes that if someone goes to a school like Miami at sticker, they will be an average student with no legitimate job prospects following graduation. That's not always the case everyone! Two of my high school teammates want to UM Law and both have jobs paying around 90K to start and full benefits. One had a decent scholarship and one didn't have any scholarship up until his third year. They both accumulated roughly 100k in debt, but are both living perfectly fine. They aren't the prototypical rich lawyer, but they love what they do and are financially stable for now. By the time they are 30-35 years old, they will be doing very well financially, most likely living the life most aspiring attorneys dream of.

What is wrong with living that life? Making 90K a year as a starting salary at decent firms, paying back loans for a little while, and enjoying their occupation. They were average students at Miami and haven't had problems yet. I agree that people shouldn't go to a TTTT school under most to any circumstances, but going to a school like University of Miami will be fine.

So it's people like you who turn young adults away from CHASING THEIR DREAMS of becoming an attorney because unless its HYS, it isn't worth it. Shut up and let people have aspirations. Nothing is wrong with getting a JD from UM an working hard to enjoy success.


Several Things:
1. No one said that unless it's HYS it's not worth it. I don't go to HYS and have been fine so far. Stop projecting your own opinion on what's actually being said. You're seeing facts that aren't there and refusing to look at the facts that directly contradict everything you're saying.
2. No one is assuming that everyone attending UM at sticker will be average...the odds are just against you. Don't get mad at us...be mad at UM for attaching ridiculous stipulations to their scholarships.
3. I agree that everyone should have dreams and goals, but it doesn't make sense to get so hung up on a dream that you sacrifice everything if the odds are stacked against you AND you run the risk of ruining the rest of your life (at potentially you family members' lives) because of insurmountable debt. It's important to be realistic (Example: I wanted to be a unicorn when I was a kid. I grew up and realized that it's not possible, so I got over it and picked something else.).

Uschoolqb10 wrote:
I'm not speaking for myself, but on behalf of the other prospective students in these forums. I'm perfectly fine with my situation. I am grateful to have strong options in regards to where I plan to attend law school. I also have a job with a family friend lined up for me following graduation. I'm going to work hard, as I have always done and I know I will do well with what's ahead of me. I just think it's sort of heartless how many of the "t14 or bust-ers" on this forum are condescending to many of the other members. Many people strive to go to law school and work hard (maybe even put themselves in a bind for a while) to achieve their goals. It just sucks that many people on this forum comment and respond to others with such condescending negativity. It's very common that graduates of TTT and even TTTT schools become successful, not only in their practice, but also financially - my boss for example, a graduate of Stetson Law and is now making 200K+ per year as a criminal defense attorney. It took him a while and a lot of struggle to get to where he is. But does he regret it? Of course not.

I understand it is smarter to look at your JD education from the perspective of an investor. I completely understand that and agree with many for the most part. But I also agree with people having faith and taking on future struggles to live out their dream. What's wrong with that?

My original intent was to tell others my opinion of UM Law. I won't be attending UM simply because I don't want to take on that much debt, as I feel I will be given the same opportunities graduating from schools where I wil accrue much less debt.
I do believe that if you do well at Miami and take advantage of the privileges offered, no matter what, success will come.


4. Not sure why you're speaking on behalf of UM applicants since you're not planning on attending and aren't concerned about getting a job after graduation (unlike the vast majority of law students)
5.You're situation is different. You have a job lined up, which is why you can spout the Disney-ending bullshit that you're spewing all over this thread and actually believe it. Not everyone has what you have and at least half of all JD graduates end up unemployed. I didn't make that up, those are stats.
6. No one is being condescending.I have friends in non-T-14 schools who are extremely intelligent and who I have the utmost respect for. I also have friends who didn't attend T-14 despite being admitted and opted for a lower ranked school. The ONLY reason why T-14 (often) matters is because most employers care about law school rankings. If you're pissed about that, then call or email every big law firm and prestigious judge in the country and nicely ask them to stop being so condescending to students who don't attend a T-14 school.
7. Feelings and personal beliefs have nothing to do with graduating free of soul crushing debt...or with anything else that could potentially be useful. It's hard impossible to take you seriously when you substitute actual empirical data with your own personal feelings and beliefs.

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:02 pm

This is not what this thread is for.

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scottyc66
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby scottyc66 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:16 pm

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:This is not what this thread is for.

Not a mod so that's not your job. Two wrongs...tsk tsk

No, but I am. When you get back from your timeout, read the following and stop acting like a tool.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=146613

SoJerz13
Posts: 95
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby SoJerz13 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:33 pm

So anyway....

Does anyone know if UM provides travel assistance for attending ASW?




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