University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

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scottyc66
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby scottyc66 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:02 pm

Gabazany wrote:Anyone else have a gpa stipulation with their scholarship? I received 25k/yr with a 3.3 gpa requirement stip.

You should figure out what the median is for UM, that could be tough to maintain.

Gabazany
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby Gabazany » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:34 pm

Seems like it would require being in the top 1/3 of the class based on their scale. Not too bad.

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scottyc66
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby scottyc66 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:55 pm

Gabazany wrote:Seems like it would require being in the top 1/3 of the class based on their scale. Not too bad.

One of the worst stips I've heard of, if you have scholly offers elsewhere I'd use them to try and get them relaxed. Hell, even if you don't I would do that.

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slawww
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby slawww » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:00 pm

Gabazany wrote:Seems like it would require being in the top 1/3 of the class based on their scale. Not too bad.


That doesn't sound bad, it sounds terrible.

sofl_law
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby sofl_law » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:17 pm

I got $25,000 a year! Letter just came today. As for the GPA stip, I really don't care. If you're focused and do everything you can to make sure that you understand thinking beyond what's in front of you, I really believe you'll be okay. At least that's how I operate and it hasn't failed me yet.

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Mdenis1
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby Mdenis1 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:29 pm

3.3 is the worst stip I heard of so far! I got $$ offers from FIU, UF, Michigan and Loyola Los Angeles and all of the stips were in the 2.xx range. Reading from last year thread, it seems like some students are bound to lose their scholarships, there are more peopme with scholarship offers than people over 3.3

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BullShitWithBravado
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby BullShitWithBravado » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:28 pm

sofl_law wrote:I got $25,000 a year! Letter just came today. As for the GPA stip, I really don't care. If you're focused and do everything you can to make sure that you understand thinking beyond what's in front of you, I really believe you'll be okay. At least that's how I operate and it hasn't failed me yet.


You realize that schools section stack right? Odds of you keeping the scholarship are low, especially since it's impossible to know how well you'll do in law school until you go and every other person with a scholarship will have the same exact mentality as you.

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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby Username123 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:40 pm

BullShitWithBravado wrote:
sofl_law wrote:I got $25,000 a year! Letter just came today. As for the GPA stip, I really don't care. If you're focused and do everything you can to make sure that you understand thinking beyond what's in front of you, I really believe you'll be okay. At least that's how I operate and it hasn't failed me yet.


You realize that schools section stack right? Odds of you keeping the scholarship are low, especially since it's impossible to know how well you'll do in law school until you go and every other person with a scholarship will have the same exact mentality as you.


Why the negativity? If sofl believes he or she can do it, then give positive support. Don't leave a condescending comment full of negativity like you just did.

Sofl, I believe you can keep the scholarship over the three years you are at UM. You kept a high GPA before, you can do it again.

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BullShitWithBravado
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby BullShitWithBravado » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:52 pm

Uschoolqb10 wrote:
BullShitWithBravado wrote:
sofl_law wrote:I got $25,000 a year! Letter just came today. As for the GPA stip, I really don't care. If you're focused and do everything you can to make sure that you understand thinking beyond what's in front of you, I really believe you'll be okay. At least that's how I operate and it hasn't failed me yet.


You realize that schools section stack right? Odds of you keeping the scholarship are low, especially since it's impossible to know how well you'll do in law school until you go and every other person with a scholarship will have the same exact mentality as you.


Why the negativity? If sofl believes he or she can do it, then give positive support. Don't leave a condescending comment full of negativity like you just did.

Sofl, I believe you can keep the scholarship over the three years you are at UM. You kept a high GPA before, you can do it again.


I'm not being condescending or negative and I never said she wouldn't be able to keep her scholarship. I literally said her odds are low and that's not her fault, it's the the fault of the schools that purposely section stack to make their students lose their scholarships. Law school is a big time and money commitment and it's important to go in with your eyes open. I was just trying to be helpful, since I know plenty of other smart, capable people who have gone into law school with scholarships only to lose them after 1L.

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slawww
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby slawww » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:50 pm

sofl_law wrote:I got $25,000 a year! Letter just came today. As for the GPA stip, I really don't care. If you're focused and do everything you can to make sure that you understand thinking beyond what's in front of you, I really believe you'll be okay. At least that's how I operate and it hasn't failed me yet.


I applaud you enthusiasm, and that is, in my opinion, the best way to approach law school, but it is not the best way to approach the financial aspect of law school. Law school is an investment you are making in yourself, and paying for it should be approached with the mindset of an investor, which is why you should negotiate with UM to change those stips. Statistically speaking, the odds are against you, and no investor would gamble with that much money with those kinds of odds. In today's economy, you should be trying to make the best, yet safest investment. You have to think, why would they put such stringent stips? Perhaps they don't want everyone to keep their scholarships?

Uschoolqb10 wrote:Why the negativity? If sofl believes he or she can do it, then give positive support. Don't leave a condescending comment full of negativity like you just did.

Sofl, I believe you can keep the scholarship over the three years you are at UM. You kept a high GPA before, you can do it again.


He's not trying to be negative, he's just offering a realistic perspective. Also, in regards to you logic regarding keeping a high GPA, that is a terrible way to look at it. In undergrad, for the vast majority of majors and programs, there is no set curve. In law school there can only be a set number of A+'s, A's, etc..

To Sofl, I hope you can negotiate with UM and get that stip changed. Good luck, we're not trying to be dicks, just be informative.

Gabazany
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby Gabazany » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:19 am

I had no idea schools section stack. If that's true then it's good to know. Seems like it would be hard to find out tho. How do you know?

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Mdenis1
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby Mdenis1 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:41 am

Sorry if this sounds like a dumb 0L question, but what do you mean by "section stacks" ?

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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby clone22 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:11 am

Section stacking is the wonderful practice of putting all scholarship kids into the same section. So if the stipulations are, let's say top 25% of the class (which 3.2 at UM may or may not be, double check that), and all of the scholarship kids are in the same section, then by definition of the curve, 75% of the section will not make the GPA cutoff and will therefore lose their scholarship. Because most school officials will deny that their school does this, your best bet is to contact several current students at your school of interest, and inquire if they do so. Most schools that put in a GPA stipulation, do indeed section stack (hint: those stips aren't there to give you an incentive, but to give the school a way to milk more money out of the generous federal loan program). Good luck.

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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby clone22 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:14 am

sofl_law wrote:I got $25,000 a year! Letter just came today. As for the GPA stip, I really don't care. If you're focused and do everything you can to make sure that you understand thinking beyond what's in front of you, I really believe you'll be okay. At least that's how I operate and it hasn't failed me yet.



Keep in mind that 99% of your class did well to extremely well in undergrad, so all of them (rightly) believe that this has worked for them, and it won't fail them now. No one goes into law school planning on being in the bottom half of the class. Everyone in your class will believe that they can (easily?) make it into the top 1/3 of the class. 2/3 won't. Be very wary of stipulations and try to negotiate out of them if you can. (FSU, for example, does not attach a GPA stipulation to their scholarships).

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Mdenis1
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby Mdenis1 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:42 am

clone22 wrote:Section stacking is the wonderful practice of putting all scholarship kids into the same section. So if the stipulations are, let's say top 25% of the class (which 3.2 at UM may or may not be, double check that), and all of the scholarship kids are in the same section, then by definition of the curve, 75% of the section will not make the GPA cutoff and will therefore lose their scholarship. Because most school officials will deny that their school does this, your best bet is to contact several current students at your school of interest, and inquire if they do so. Most schools that put in a GPA stipulation, do indeed section stack (hint: those stips aren't there to give you an incentive, but to give the school a way to milk more money out of the generous federal loan program). Good luck.


Omg, shit! I didn't even knew that existed. I seriously thought the curve was calculated by taking into consideration the whole class, not your section.

A scholarship at Miami already seemed hard to keep when I thought you had to keep a 3.3 GPA on a curve with the whole c/o 2016, but if it's on a curve calculated with a section stacked with students who got scholarships (and by definition ate the best UM admitted), it just seems impossible.

My former roommate is currently a 1L there and I know she got a scholarship. I might try to contact her about this, if she gives me any valuable information I'll post it here.

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scottyc66
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby scottyc66 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:06 am

clone22 wrote:
sofl_law wrote:I got $25,000 a year! Letter just came today. As for the GPA stip, I really don't care. If you're focused and do everything you can to make sure that you understand thinking beyond what's in front of you, I really believe you'll be okay. At least that's how I operate and it hasn't failed me yet.



Keep in mind that 99% of your class did well to extremely well in undergrad, so all of them (rightly) believe that this has worked for them, and it won't fail them now. No one goes into law school planning on being in the bottom half of the class. Everyone in your class will believe that they can (easily?) make it into the top 1/3 of the class. 2/3 won't. Be very wary of stipulations and try to negotiate out of them if you can. (FSU, for example, does not attach a GPA stipulation to their scholarships).

Not trying to knock on UM because I'm actually considering it, but you're kinds of overstating the intelligence of the average UMer. Avg UG GPA is 3.38 (mediocre) and avg LSAT is 158 (75th percentile). I'm sure the people who have full scholarships are quite intelligent but the fallacy that all law school attendees are brilliant is a little ridiculous.

I don't think it's a good idea to simply accept the stips UM gives, especially if there's any chance they section stack, but it's certainly doable to get yourself into the top 1/3

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Prospect
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby Prospect » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:49 pm

Here to confirm the section stacking at UM.

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BullShitWithBravado
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby BullShitWithBravado » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:26 pm

scottyc66 wrote:
clone22 wrote:
sofl_law wrote:I got $25,000 a year! Letter just came today. As for the GPA stip, I really don't care. If you're focused and do everything you can to make sure that you understand thinking beyond what's in front of you, I really believe you'll be okay. At least that's how I operate and it hasn't failed me yet.



Keep in mind that 99% of your class did well to extremely well in undergrad, so all of them (rightly) believe that this has worked for them, and it won't fail them now. No one goes into law school planning on being in the bottom half of the class. Everyone in your class will believe that they can (easily?) make it into the top 1/3 of the class. 2/3 won't. Be very wary of stipulations and try to negotiate out of them if you can. (FSU, for example, does not attach a GPA stipulation to their scholarships).

Not trying to knock on UM because I'm actually considering it, but you're kinds of overstating the intelligence of the average UMer. Avg UG GPA is 3.38 (mediocre) and avg LSAT is 158 (75th percentile). I'm sure the people who have full scholarships are quite intelligent but the fallacy that all law school attendees are brilliant is a little ridiculous.

I don't think it's a good idea to simply accept the stips UM gives, especially if there's any chance they section stack, but it's certainly doable to get yourself into the top 1/3


The beauty of it all is that doing well in law school depends more on being a good test taker and knowing how to mechanically apply rules to facts than on being intelligent. For example, I know of one student in my civ pro section who we all thought would do extremely well because of his insightful, intelligent comments in class who ended up around median at best. The guy is obviously brilliant, but just didn't get enough points on his finals (compared to everyone else) to get into the top third of the class.

Also, apart from section stacking, another thing to keep in mind is that your grades will probably be higher first semester than second semester because people who are at the bottom of the curve first semester will drop out, thus making the curve second semester more competitive.

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Prospect
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby Prospect » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:31 pm

BullShitWithBravado wrote:
Also, apart from section stacking, another thing to keep in mind is that your grades will probably be higher first semester than second semester because people who are at the bottom of the curve first semester will drop out, thus making the curve second semester more competitive.


That's the best part--UM screws those kids and makes tuition due long before you get your 1st semester grades. We actually receive our 1st semester grades after our 2nd semester starts.

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scottyc66
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby scottyc66 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:15 pm

Prospect wrote:
BullShitWithBravado wrote:
Also, apart from section stacking, another thing to keep in mind is that your grades will probably be higher first semester than second semester because people who are at the bottom of the curve first semester will drop out, thus making the curve second semester more competitive.


That's the best part--UM screws those kids and makes tuition due long before you get your 1st semester grades. We actually receive our 1st semester grades after our 2nd semester starts.

Being convinced pretty quickly that even if I get the full ride I'm not going if I get those stips.

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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby Korteja » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:14 pm

I visited the U earlier this week and took the law school tour. I have to say, as beautiful as the campus was, the tour as a whole was somewhat underwhelming. They were very hesitant to talk about scholarships and employment numbers. The school is still high on my list because of the location, however, they are going to have to fork over $20,000+ a year without a 3.3 stipulation to push ahead of better schools that have already given me offers. Again, I'm not trying to shit all over Miami, but I'm starting to get the vibe that this is the kind of school that takes your money then turns the other cheek. Such a high tuition and an exorbitantly high COL should result in some big time job offers and I'm not so sure it does. Any L2s or L3s at Miami have a response to this?

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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby clone22 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:34 pm

Korteja wrote:I visited the U earlier this week and took the law school tour. I have to say, as beautiful as the campus was, the tour as a whole was somewhat underwhelming. They were very hesitant to talk about scholarships and employment numbers. The school is still high on my list because of the location, however, they are going to have to fork over $20,000+ a year without a 3.3 stipulation to push ahead of better schools that have already given me offers. Again, I'm not trying to shit all over Miami, but I'm starting to get the vibe that this is the kind of school that takes your money then turns the other cheek. Such a high tuition and an exorbitantly high COL should result in some big time job offers and I'm not so sure it does. Any L2s or L3s at Miami have a response to this?


Being from south florida, I mass mailed the hell out of the area this summer and got a few callbacks that way. All of the "big law" equivalent firms have a combined summer associate class for the coming year of around 20-30 students. Also, because there will be at least that many T-14 students from south florida also seeking to come back, firms that were looking to hire summers did not dip below the top 5-10% of UF and FSU. At UM they are likely to be even more selective. Getting six figure starting salary out of UM is anything but guaranteed ITE.

Be very hesitant to take out more than 100K of loans for UM because being able to service that debt might turn out to be a real issue.

sofl_law
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby sofl_law » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:53 pm

My stipulation was 3.2. I understand that it's high but all my other offers were 2.9 stip. I'm just an optimistic person and I am thinking about everything you all said but I feel like there's a percentage that does keep their scholarship. I'm willing to take the risk because I love the school and all that it can offer me. However, I am still going to call tomorrow and talk to admissions about everything.

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AbbeyRoadLaw
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby AbbeyRoadLaw » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:23 pm

Gabazany wrote:Seems like it would require being in the top 1/3 of the class based on their scale. Not too bad.

What are you on? 1/3 not too bad? LOLZ

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jbates14
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Re: University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle

Postby jbates14 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:28 pm

sent in my app yesterday...late in the cycle, but I retook in december. Any chance of scholarship money with a 3.4 and 163?




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