University of Miami Law Applicants 2012-2013 Cycle Forum

[Mdenis1]

My stipulation was 3.2. I understand that it's high but all my other offers were 2.9 stip. I'm just an optimistic person and I am thinking about everything you all said but I feel like there's a percentage that does keep their scholarship. I'm willing to take the risk because I love the school and all that it can offer me. However, I am still going to call tomorrow and talk to admissions about everything.

It's true that some get to keep their scholarships, I'd be just curious to know how much lose them and how much keep them. Also, I'm thinking, it must be even harder in the second year, since I guess the "worsts" students with the worst grades in the first year drop off. I'd appreciate if you could post any relevant info. they might give you here.

[Mdenis1]

Here to confirm the section stacking at UM.

And the curve and therefore your GPA are calculated based on your section and not on the whole class?

[alwayssunnyinfl]

Here to confirm the section stacking at UM.

And the curve and therefore your GPA are calculated based on your section and not on the whole class?

I'm not sure about the specifics of UM, but generally the way curves work in LS is that professors are given mandatory ranges for a mean, and then distribute the grades accordingly within each class. If a disproportionately high number of scholarship receiving students are in one section, then statistically it is likely that a higher-than-normal amount of those students will lose their scholarships.

[Mdenis1]

Yes! I was aware of the whole curve concept. Except of course for law schools who have given up the whole grading system (Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Berkeley, as far as I know these are the only ones that do it.). However, I had never heard about the part where the curve was calculated ONLY out of your section (Although I had never specifically researched the issue).,

Is it only at UM, or is it common at American law schools?

[Yasy13]

sent in my app yesterday...late in the cycle, but I retook in december. Any chance of scholarship money with a 3.4 and 163?

you got back your december LSAT already?? i havent heard of anyone getting it back yet.

[alwayssunnyinfl]

Yes! I was aware of the whole curve concept. Except of course for law schools who have given up the whole grading system (Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Berkeley, as far as I know these are the only ones that do it.). However, I had never heard about the part where the curve was calculated ONLY out of your section (Although I had never specifically researched the issue).,

Is it only at UM, or is it common at American law schools?

No, I'm pretty sure at Miami that the entire class is taken into consideration for your ranking. However, your first year you take all of your classes with the same students, called your "section." I couldn't quickly find Miami's section info, but IIRC there are about 500 students every year, which probably means 4-5 sections at least. Now, if they place the scholarship recipients evenly among the sections (so if 30% of the students have a scholarship, then 30% of every section would be scholarship recipients) then you would stand a fighting chance of keeping your scholarship.

However, if two sections were "stacked" so that all of the scholarship recipients were placed between one of two sections (so you'd have two sections with, say, 50% of the students as scholarship recipients for simplicity) then chances are that you're going to force out at least thirteen percent of the scholarship recipients right off the bat because the odds are that 63% of every section will not be in the top 37% of the total class. That doesn't mean it will add up exactly evenly (one section might have a slightly higher average GPA or a slightly lower one) but mathematically things tend to come out as a wash.


DISCLAIMER: I know nothing about the specifics of UM and I'm not saying that they section stack. I'm just explaining the concept and how it's done.

[scottyc66]

No, I'm pretty sure at Miami that the entire class is taken into consideration for your ranking. However, your first year you take all of your classes with the same students, called your "section." I couldn't quickly find Miami's section info, but IIRC there are about 500 students every year, which probably means 4-5 sections at least. Now, if they place the scholarship recipients evenly among the sections (so if 30% of the students have a scholarship, then 30% of every section would be scholarship recipients) then you would stand a fighting chance of keeping your scholarship.

However, if two sections were "stacked" so that all of the scholarship recipients were placed between one of two sections (so you'd have two sections with, say, 50% of the students as scholarship recipients for simplicity) then chances are that you're going to force out at least thirteen percent of the scholarship recipients right off the bat because the odds are that 63% of every section will not be in the top 37% of the total class. That doesn't mean it will add up exactly evenly (one section might have a slightly higher average GPA or a slightly lower one) but mathematically things tend to come out as a wash.


DISCLAIMER: I know nothing about the specifics of UM and I'm not saying that they section stack. I'm just explaining the concept and how it's done.

Math aside, the theory makes sense. It seems really unlikely they would curve based on an entire class, they would have to pool together sections and it would make things far more convoluted and would essentially eliminate the point in having several sections to a class.

[Mdenis1]

Yes! I was aware of the whole curve concept. Except of course for law schools who have given up the whole grading system (Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Berkeley, as far as I know these are the only ones that do it.). However, I had never heard about the part where the curve was calculated ONLY out of your section (Although I had never specifically researched the issue).,

Is it only at UM, or is it common at American law schools?

No, I'm pretty sure at Miami that the entire class is taken into consideration for your ranking. However, your first year you take all of your classes with the same students, called your "section." I couldn't quickly find Miami's section info, but IIRC there are about 500 students every year, which probably means 4-5 sections at least. Now, if they place the scholarship recipients evenly among the sections (so if 30% of the students have a scholarship, then 30% of every section would be scholarship recipients) then you would stand a fighting chance of keeping your scholarship.

However, if two sections were "stacked" so that all of the scholarship recipients were placed between one of two sections (so you'd have two sections with, say, 50% of the students as scholarship recipients for simplicity) then chances are that you're going to force out at least thirteen percent of the scholarship recipients right off the bat because the odds are that 63% of every section will not be in the top 37% of the total class. That doesn't mean it will add up exactly evenly (one section might have a slightly higher average GPA or a slightly lower one) but mathematically things tend to come out as a wash.


DISCLAIMER: I know nothing about the specifics of UM and I'm not saying that they section stack. I'm just explaining the concept and how it's done.

Yes I get what you mean. Like you said Miami must have at lest four or five sections, maybe six given their large class size. If they put all scholarship recipients in three or two sections (or in only one! ) section it would be very hard to keep a scholarship.

[Username123]

Woke up this morning to an email from UM telling me to check an update on my myUM account.

Accepted!

Weird that the email from UM was sent to me at 3:41AM Eastern time.

[Mdenis1]

Woke up this morning to an email from UM telling me to check an update on my myUM account.

Accepted!

Weird that the email from UM was sent to me at 3:41AM Eastern time.

Congrats!

[elderpisimo]

Same, accepted via email at 3:41 a.m.

Does anyone know how long it takes for scholarship info to arrive in the mail?

[jbates14]

sent in my app yesterday...late in the cycle, but I retook in december. Any chance of scholarship money with a 3.4 and 163?

you got back your december LSAT already?? i havent heard of anyone getting it back yet.

No, I wish. 163 was my first score. My best guess is the second or third.

[jing87]

same here, got an e-mail from UM at 3:40am, accepted.

[Prospect]

Explaining this curve thing simply:

There are six 1L sections this year. Each section is curved individually meaning that for roughly each 70-80 students section there must be around 3-5 A's, 14 B's etc. (rough estimate). Therefore if all of your shining scholarship stars are "stacked" into one section (I believe it is Sect. D this year) then lets say at least half to 2/3 are on scholarships. With the curve the way it is a large portion of those with scholarships cannot possibly reach above a 3.2. Also interesting is the section above mentioned also has the toughest lot of professors, making it easier to give students lower grades.

[nolongermissing]

Explaining this curve thing simply:

There are six 1L sections this year. Each section is curved individually meaning that for roughly each 70-80 students section there must be around 3-5 A's, 14 B's etc. (rough estimate). Therefore if all of your shining scholarship stars are "stacked" into one section (I believe it is Sect. D this year) then lets say at least half to 2/3 are on scholarships. With the curve the way it is a large portion of those with scholarships cannot possibly reach above a 3.2. Also interesting is the section above mentioned also has the toughest lot of professors, making it easier to give students lower grades.

So, not only is it going to be difficult to retain the scholarship, but people with scholarships are at a disadvantage when it comes to jobs because, chances are, these people will have lower grades than the people who don't have scholarships.

[Username123]

Explaining this curve thing simply:

There are six 1L sections this year. Each section is curved individually meaning that for roughly each 70-80 students section there must be around 3-5 A's, 14 B's etc. (rough estimate). Therefore if all of your shining scholarship stars are "stacked" into one section (I believe it is Sect. D this year) then lets say at least half to 2/3 are on scholarships. With the curve the way it is a large portion of those with scholarships cannot possibly reach above a 3.2. Also interesting is the section above mentioned also has the toughest lot of professors, making it easier to give students lower grades.

Anybody know the median 1L GPA at Miami? I would love to actually know how difficult it is to obtain at least a 3.2 GPA there.

[BullShitWithBravado]

Explaining this curve thing simply:

There are six 1L sections this year. Each section is curved individually meaning that for roughly each 70-80 students section there must be around 3-5 A's, 14 B's etc. (rough estimate). Therefore if all of your shining scholarship stars are "stacked" into one section (I believe it is Sect. D this year) then lets say at least half to 2/3 are on scholarships. With the curve the way it is a large portion of those with scholarships cannot possibly reach above a 3.2. Also interesting is the section above mentioned also has the toughest lot of professors, making it easier to give students lower grades.

Anybody know the median 1L GPA at Miami? I would love to actually know how difficult it is to obtain at least a 3.2 GPA there.

--LinkRemoved--

[Mdenis1]

Explaining this curve thing simply:

There are six 1L sections this year. Each section is curved individually meaning that for roughly each 70-80 students section there must be around 3-5 A's, 14 B's etc. (rough estimate). Therefore if all of your shining scholarship stars are "stacked" into one section (I believe it is Sect. D this year) then lets say at least half to 2/3 are on scholarships. With the curve the way it is a large portion of those with scholarships cannot possibly reach above a 3.2. Also interesting is the section above mentioned also has the toughest lot of professors, making it easier to give students lower grades.

Shit. That's just scary .

Does anyone know if Miami is flexible with the stip? Like let's say UF or FSU offers you roughly the same amount, are they willing to take the stip down to tge more reasonnable levels of FSU and UF?!

[Mdenis1]

Explaining this curve thing simply:

There are six 1L sections this year. Each section is curved individually meaning that for roughly each 70-80 students section there must be around 3-5 A's, 14 B's etc. (rough estimate). Therefore if all of your shining scholarship stars are "stacked" into one section (I believe it is Sect. D this year) then lets say at least half to 2/3 are on scholarships. With the curve the way it is a large portion of those with scholarships cannot possibly reach above a 3.2. Also interesting is the section above mentioned also has the toughest lot of professors, making it easier to give students lower grades.

So, not only is it going to be difficult to retain the scholarship, but people with scholarships are at a disadvantage when it comes to jobs because, chances are, these people will have lower grades than the people who don't have scholarships.

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking about... That's just so wrong!

[BullShitWithBravado]

Explaining this curve thing simply:

There are six 1L sections this year. Each section is curved individually meaning that for roughly each 70-80 students section there must be around 3-5 A's, 14 B's etc. (rough estimate). Therefore if all of your shining scholarship stars are "stacked" into one section (I believe it is Sect. D this year) then lets say at least half to 2/3 are on scholarships. With the curve the way it is a large portion of those with scholarships cannot possibly reach above a 3.2. Also interesting is the section above mentioned also has the toughest lot of professors, making it easier to give students lower grades.

So, not only is it going to be difficult to retain the scholarship, but people with scholarships are at a disadvantage when it comes to jobs because, chances are, these people will have lower grades than the people who don't have scholarships.

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking about... That's just so wrong!

Maybe those of you who are considering attending UM and were offered scholarships with stipulations could call their admissions office/registrar and specifically ask if UM section stacks. Who knows, maybe if they realize that students are catching on they'll do things differently.

Schools use scholarships with stipulations to entice students who have offers from better schools to boost their own stats and then take those scholarships away after 1L. Those students are then stuck paying sticker and, to make matters worse, their grades aren't even high enough to transfer out so they literally get stuck. It's crazy that the top percentile of admitted students are the ones who are being most disadvantaged by the UM's grading policies both grades-wise and in terms of jobs. Think about it, a student who entered without a scholarship (who probably has a lower GPA/LSAT than scholarship students) and was put in one of the non-stacked sections could end up at the top of the class, on LR, and with better employment options that most scholarship students.

The practice is borderline fraudulent and should be illegal and, sadly, it is used at a lot of law schools.

[Korteja]

I just pulled my acceptance at UM. Even if it was Harvard I wouldn't appreciate a tactic like this, let alone from the 69th ranked school in the country. We work hard for four years during undergrad to earn a spot and a scholarship at a good law school. Even with scholarships, most of us will end up with 50k+ in debt after COL and various other expenses. I will not risk nor condone this kind of fraud. I'll forgo my fascination with the Miami weather and culture and look elsewhere.

[clone22]

Explaining this curve thing simply:

There are six 1L sections this year. Each section is curved individually meaning that for roughly each 70-80 students section there must be around 3-5 A's, 14 B's etc. (rough estimate). Therefore if all of your shining scholarship stars are "stacked" into one section (I believe it is Sect. D this year) then lets say at least half to 2/3 are on scholarships. With the curve the way it is a large portion of those with scholarships cannot possibly reach above a 3.2. Also interesting is the section above mentioned also has the toughest lot of professors, making it easier to give students lower grades.

Shit. That's just scary .

Does anyone know if Miami is flexible with the stip? Like let's say UF or FSU offers you roughly the same amount, are they willing to take the stip down to tge more reasonnable levels of FSU and UF?!

Just fyi, UF's stips are normally 3.2, although I have seen that removed. FSU doesn't place stips on theirs. This info is current as of the 2011 application cycle.

[alwayssunnyinfl]

Explaining this curve thing simply:

There are six 1L sections this year. Each section is curved individually meaning that for roughly each 70-80 students section there must be around 3-5 A's, 14 B's etc. (rough estimate). Therefore if all of your shining scholarship stars are "stacked" into one section (I believe it is Sect. D this year) then lets say at least half to 2/3 are on scholarships. With the curve the way it is a large portion of those with scholarships cannot possibly reach above a 3.2. Also interesting is the section above mentioned also has the toughest lot of professors, making it easier to give students lower grades.

Shit. That's just scary .

Does anyone know if Miami is flexible with the stip? Like let's say UF or FSU offers you roughly the same amount, are they willing to take the stip down to tge more reasonnable levels of FSU and UF?!

Just fyi, UF's stips are normally 3.2, although I have seen that removed. FSU doesn't place stips on theirs. This info is current as of the 2011 application cycle.

However, losing your scholarship at UF isn't quite as financially disastrous.

[clone22]

Explaining this curve thing simply:

There are six 1L sections this year. Each section is curved individually meaning that for roughly each 70-80 students section there must be around 3-5 A's, 14 B's etc. (rough estimate). Therefore if all of your shining scholarship stars are "stacked" into one section (I believe it is Sect. D this year) then lets say at least half to 2/3 are on scholarships. With the curve the way it is a large portion of those with scholarships cannot possibly reach above a 3.2. Also interesting is the section above mentioned also has the toughest lot of professors, making it easier to give students lower grades.

Shit. That's just scary .

Does anyone know if Miami is flexible with the stip? Like let's say UF or FSU offers you roughly the same amount, are they willing to take the stip down to tge more reasonnable levels of FSU and UF?!

Just fyi, UF's stips are normally 3.2, although I have seen that removed. FSU doesn't place stips on theirs. This info is current as of the 2011 application cycle.

However, losing your scholarship at UF isn't quite as financially disastrous.

Correct, but again, getting 6 figure gig in south florida out of UF requires at least top 20% + LR.

[Username123]

Can anyone inform me of how long it took for you to receive your admissions packet in the mail?