Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

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baddabing27
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby baddabing27 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:37 am

yea was starting to wonder if something had happened. really would like to go here...

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vanwinkle
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:45 am

totalgleek wrote:fordham and alabama were tied at 29 yesterday
today, bama is 21, fordham is 38.

i always hear oh the rankings dont matter
but i have almost a full ride at alabama and fordham has offered me nothing!

i want to do big law, id like to end up in nyc eventually,
but thats so many ranks and so much money!
have no idea what to make of all this now

Rankings do matter, but not nearly this much. Basically below #20 (and arguably higher than that), what matters about the rankings is where it puts regional schools relative to each other. Fordham is still above Cardozo; Cardozo is still above Brooklyn. In NYC, this is what matters. Hiring partners do not give a shit about short-term moves in the rankings. Honestly, if they changed in the rankings for a year, this would still be the natural order of things. It'd take a few years of one school legit outranking the other for attitudes to shift, and in that case, the change in rankings would likely be an effect and not the cause of the change.

If you want BigLaw then you need to aim for NYC right away. It's incredibly rare for someone to lateral from a smaller market up into NYC. Usually it works the other way around, people put their time in at an NYC firm and then leave to go work wherever else they want. In that sense, you'd be better off going to Fordham. It's not like NYC firms will look at a chart and go, "Oh, your school is ranked higher than Fordham, I'd better take you instead." NYC firms know Fordham, Fordham is reputable here, there are Fordham alumni who love hiring Fordham grads when they can. Alabama is, well ... I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think most people in NYC go, "Wow, Alabama. Roll tide."

That said, Fordham will be expensive compared to Alabama. Alabama could be the better choice for that anyway, assuming you'd be happy working in the south when you're done.

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PinkLemonade
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby PinkLemonade » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:45 am

qfjd10 wrote:
baddabing27 wrote:Not to take this in another direction - but is anyone still waiting on a decision? I haven't had an update since 2/27 for PT...


Yeah, complete on 2/5 and no movement since. Also PT

+1 but my update is 2/27 PT

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zestylemon
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby zestylemon » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:58 am

There's been a lot of talk of biglaw, does anyone know how the rankings will affect us public interest kids? I know Fordham has the Stein Scholars program as well as other resources and that their resource don't drop because their ranking did, but anyone have predictions on what'll happen to public interest job prospects?

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JayJones78
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby JayJones78 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:22 am

vanwinkle wrote:
totalgleek wrote:fordham and alabama were tied at 29 yesterday
today, bama is 21, fordham is 38.

i always hear oh the rankings dont matter
but i have almost a full ride at alabama and fordham has offered me nothing!

i want to do big law, id like to end up in nyc eventually,
but thats so many ranks and so much money!
have no idea what to make of all this now

Rankings do matter, but not nearly this much. Basically below #20 (and arguably higher than that), what matters about the rankings is where it puts regional schools relative to each other. Fordham is still above Cardozo; Cardozo is still above Brooklyn. In NYC, this is what matters. Hiring partners do not give a shit about short-term moves in the rankings. Honestly, if they changed in the rankings for a year, this would still be the natural order of things. It'd take a few years of one school legit outranking the other for attitudes to shift, and in that case, the change in rankings would likely be an effect and not the cause of the change.

If you want BigLaw then you need to aim for NYC right away. It's incredibly rare for someone to lateral from a smaller market up into NYC. Usually it works the other way around, people put their time in at an NYC firm and then leave to go work wherever else they want. In that sense, you'd be better off going to Fordham. It's not like NYC firms will look at a chart and go, "Oh, your school is ranked higher than Fordham, I'd better take you instead." NYC firms know Fordham, Fordham is reputable here, there are Fordham alumni who love hiring Fordham grads when they can. Alabama is, well ... I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think most people in NYC go, "Wow, Alabama. Roll tide."

That said, Fordham will be expensive compared to Alabama. Alabama could be the better choice for that anyway, assuming you'd be happy working in the south when you're done.


+1
Comparing Alabama and Fordham with the aim of NYC big law is a very bad connection IMHO. If NYC biglaw is where you're aiming in not saying that Fordham is your clear winner (and I don't know your other offers) but to put it side by side with Alabama is not a good correlation

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mohanster
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby mohanster » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:03 pm

I checked the US news ranking that are based on responses by the recruiting firms over the last few years and there is a clear pattern that a school's overall ranking definitely affects the likability of firms.

The drop in Fordham's rank and rise in Alabama's rank would definitely affect big law prospects and I don't see any worth in forgoing a full ride offer from Alabama for Fordham.

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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby nba101790 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:04 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
totalgleek wrote:fordham and alabama were tied at 29 yesterday
today, bama is 21, fordham is 38.

i always hear oh the rankings dont matter
but i have almost a full ride at alabama and fordham has offered me nothing!

i want to do big law, id like to end up in nyc eventually,
but thats so many ranks and so much money!
have no idea what to make of all this now

Rankings do matter, but not nearly this much. Basically below #20 (and arguably higher than that), what matters about the rankings is where it puts regional schools relative to each other. Fordham is still above Cardozo; Cardozo is still above Brooklyn. In NYC, this is what matters. Hiring partners do not give a shit about short-term moves in the rankings. Honestly, if they changed in the rankings for a year, this would still be the natural order of things. It'd take a few years of one school legit outranking the other for attitudes to shift, and in that case, the change in rankings would likely be an effect and not the cause of the change.

If you want BigLaw then you need to aim for NYC right away. It's incredibly rare for someone to lateral from a smaller market up into NYC. Usually it works the other way around, people put their time in at an NYC firm and then leave to go work wherever else they want. In that sense, you'd be better off going to Fordham. It's not like NYC firms will look at a chart and go, "Oh, your school is ranked higher than Fordham, I'd better take you instead." NYC firms know Fordham, Fordham is reputable here, there are Fordham alumni who love hiring Fordham grads when they can. Alabama is, well ... I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think most people in NYC go, "Wow, Alabama. Roll tide."

That said, Fordham will be expensive compared to Alabama. Alabama could be the better choice for that anyway, assuming you'd be happy working in the south when you're done.


Agreed. Fordham has a very good reputation within the city.

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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby drive4showLSAT4dough » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:08 pm

SteelPenguin wrote:Wow, Fordham dropped to 38. I know rankings aren't everything, but i still find this pretty concerning.


Really makes you think about that 1/5 shot at BigLaw

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JayJones78
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby JayJones78 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:10 pm

mohanster wrote:I checked the US news ranking that are based on responses by the recruiting firms over the last few years and there is a clear pattern that a school's overall ranking definitely affects the likability of firms.

The drop in Fordham's rank and rise in Alabama's rank would definitely affect big law prospects and I don't see any worth in forgoing a full ride offer from Alabama for Fordham.


If you want to live, work and practice in NYC why would you ever even consider going to school in AL? I really don't get it. Do you really think that hiring partners in NYC are going to care about a one year rise in rankings? They have been hiring in Fordham for years. For NYC (and especially for NYC biglaw) there isn't even a question.
Plus - think of this. Rankings change. UW jumped to #20 last year. Today it is 28.

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PinkLemonade
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby PinkLemonade » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:13 pm

If I remember correctly, Emory had a similar dip and rise in rankings for a few years but it's still very reputable in the Atlanta market. Boston College had a dip as well. A 1-2 year ranking decrease may not have a significant impact.

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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby DoveBodyWash » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:15 pm

Browse through the websites of major firms in your intended market and look at their recruiting schedules. FWIW you won't find a single NYC firm that has 'Bama on their OCI calendar. Almost all of them will have Fordham on it. Forget the rankings. If you want NYC, then Fordham is the clear choice over 'Bama. Unless your debt aversion takes precedence over your NYC ambitions, in that case, 'Bama.

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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby guano » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:19 pm

mohanster wrote:I checked the US news ranking that are based on responses by the recruiting firms over the last few years and there is a clear pattern that a school's overall ranking definitely affects the likability of firms.

The drop in Fordham's rank and rise in Alabama's rank would definitely affect big law prospects and I don't see any worth in forgoing a full ride offer from Alabama for Fordham.

:?:

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mohanster
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby mohanster » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:24 pm

JayJones78 wrote:If you want to live, work and practice in NYC why would you ever even consider going to school in AL? I really don't get it. Do you really think that hiring partners in NYC are going to care about a one year rise in rankings? They have been hiring in Fordham for years. For NYC (and especially for NYC biglaw) there isn't even a question.
Plus - think of this. Rankings change. UW jumped to #20 last year. Today it is 28.


If its black and white for someone whether to practice in NYC, it doesn't make sense going to Alabama - even Brooklyn law school would be a better option. But what I gather, most people in TLS are in the grey area. It is hard to decide completely by sitting outside law school that one would want to go for Big Law - rather it is advisable that one should not decide beforehand, cause one never knows where one's real interest lies w/o taking classes in different subjects.

What makes you so sure that Fordham will not go the UIUC route and will comeback on the 20-30 ranks next year? By the time people graduate it could be 50-odd.
So my advice would be NOT to take such a risk for Fordham when one has Alabama's full ride unless you are a die hard NYC fan.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby DoveBodyWash » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:25 pm

mohanster wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:If you want to live, work and practice in NYC why would you ever even consider going to school in AL? I really don't get it. Do you really think that hiring partners in NYC are going to care about a one year rise in rankings? They have been hiring in Fordham for years. For NYC (and especially for NYC biglaw) there isn't even a question.
Plus - think of this. Rankings change. UW jumped to #20 last year. Today it is 28.


If its black and white for someone whether to practice in NYC, it doesn't make sense going to Alabama - even Brooklyn law school would be a better option. But what I gather, most people in TLS are in the grey area. It is hard to decide completely by sitting outside law school that one would want to go for Big Law - rather it is advisable that one should not decide beforehand, cause one never knows where one's real interest lies w/o taking classes in different subjects.

What makes you so sure that Fordham will not go the UIUC route and will comeback on the 20-30 ranks next year? By the time people graduate it could be 50-odd.
So my advice would be NOT to take such a risk for Fordham when one has Alabama's full ride unless you are a die hard NYC fan.


+1 to the enlarged. not because of rankings..but because of dat debt.

Anyway it's unlikely that any ranking-drop will impact hiring by the time OP enters recruiting. It takes prolonged period of decline for firms to notice.

Does OP not have a middle-ground option? Perhaps BC or BU with some scholly or something? Why is this a 'Bama or Fordham or bust issue?

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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby nygrrrl » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:34 pm

cusenation wrote:Browse through the websites of major firms in your intended market and look at their recruiting schedules. FWIW you won't find a single NYC firm that has 'Bama on their OCI calendar. Almost all of them will have Fordham on it. Forget the rankings. If you want NYC, then Fordham is the clear choice over 'Bama. Unless your debt aversion takes precedence over your NYC ambitions, in that case, 'Bama.

This.
I think the drop is disappointing but I would suggest that people considering Fordham weigh this information against the NLJ250 placement stats. I'm sure the school will be making changes to address the drop; I would guess that the new building/related costs are part of the current ranking. If you want real information, you have the chance to get it here - there are many of us who are current/graduating students who have offered to answer questions about job prospects, etc. very honestly - I would posit that we are a better resource than USNWR on this.

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JayJones78
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby JayJones78 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:36 pm

nygrrrl wrote:
cusenation wrote:Browse through the websites of major firms in your intended market and look at their recruiting schedules. FWIW you won't find a single NYC firm that has 'Bama on their OCI calendar. Almost all of them will have Fordham on it. Forget the rankings. If you want NYC, then Fordham is the clear choice over 'Bama. Unless your debt aversion takes precedence over your NYC ambitions, in that case, 'Bama.

This.
I think the drop is disappointing but I would suggest that people considering Fordham weigh this information against the NLJ250 placement stats. I'm sure the school will be making changes to address the drop; I would guess that the new building/related costs are part of the current ranking. If you want real information, you have the chance to get it here - there are many of us who are current/graduating students who have offered to answer questions about job prospects, etc. very honestly - I would posit that we are a better resource than USNWR on this.


Thanks!
PM

OnceUponAMemo
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby OnceUponAMemo » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:37 pm

I'm a 3L at Fordham and I can promise you that there is nothing seriously bad that happened and the rankings maybe matter in a yacht measuring contest, other than that, not at all. The rankings might help one decide between schools in a single market, but for comparing firms between markets? That is nonsensical.

Firms are hiring more grads because the economy is better. The perception of the school has not changed at all and for NYC, it has a very strong reputation.

Also, let's stop throwing around the only 20% of the graduating class get big law firm jobs, that stat is from the graduating class 2 years ago that went through OCI when the economy fell apart. Fordham is back to placing 30% in big law firms now.

Also for you rankings whores, next year when the new law school opens and the new facilities are bigger and better, the school will improve in the rankings. Will hiring partners care? No. They won't even notice.

Go to the best school in the region you want to live in, or go to a school that makes the most sense economically in a region you want to live in. Otherwise you might seriously regret some of the decisions that people are contemplating in this thread.

Going to Alabama because it's cheap hoping to get to NY? Let's think about that a little bit.
All the ridiculous posts exclaiming, I was planning on going to Fordham, but now I don't know because the rankings dropped, just silly and juvenile. Fordham's (or almost any school that is not in the top 10) fluctuation in the rankings will have 0 effect on your law school experience or job prospects.

All that said and with the risk of sounding like an ass, many of the posts here sound a lot like neurotic gunners, so fine, go somewhere else because the rankings changed. No time for that nonsense at FLS.

PM me with specific questions if you want more info.

nba101790
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby nba101790 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:39 pm

OnceUponAMemo wrote:I'm a 3L at Fordham and I can promise you that there is nothing seriously bad that happened and the rankings maybe matter in a yacht measuring contest, other than that, not at all. The rankings might help one decide between schools in a single market, but for comparing firms between markets? That is nonsensical.

Firms are hiring more grads because the economy is better. The perception of the school has not changed at all and for NYC, it has a very strong reputation.

Also, let's stop throwing around the only 20% of the graduating class get big law firm jobs, that stat is from the graduating class 2 years ago that went through OCI when the economy fell apart. Fordham is back to placing 30% in big law firms now.

Also for you rankings whores, next year when the new law school opens and the new facilities are bigger and better, the school will improve in the rankings. Will hiring partners care? No. They won't even notice.

Go to the best school in the region you want to live in, or go to a school that makes the most sense economically in a region you want to live in. Otherwise you might seriously regret some of the decisions that people are contemplating in this thread.

Going to Alabama because it's cheap hoping to get to NY? Let's think about that a little bit.
All the ridiculous posts exclaiming, I was planning on going to Fordham, but now I don't know because the rankings dropped, just silly and juvenile. Fordham's (or almost any school that is not in the top 10) fluctuation in the rankings will have 0 effect on your law school experience or job prospects.

All that said and with the risk of sounding like an ass, many of the posts here sound a lot like neurotic gunners, so fine, go somewhere else because the rankings changed. No time for that nonsense at FLS.

PM me with specific questions if you want more info.


Amen!

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JayJones78
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby JayJones78 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:46 pm

OnceUponAMemo wrote:I'm a 3L at Fordham and I can promise you that there is nothing seriously bad that happened and the rankings maybe matter in a yacht measuring contest, other than that, not at all. The rankings might help one decide between schools in a single market, but for comparing firms between markets? That is nonsensical.

Firms are hiring more grads because the economy is better. The perception of the school has not changed at all and for NYC, it has a very strong reputation.

Also, let's stop throwing around the only 20% of the graduating class get big law firm jobs, that stat is from the graduating class 2 years ago that went through OCI when the economy fell apart. Fordham is back to placing 30% in big law firms now.

Also for you rankings whores, next year when the new law school opens and the new facilities are bigger and better, the school will improve in the rankings. Will hiring partners care? No. They won't even notice.

Go to the best school in the region you want to live in, or go to a school that makes the most sense economically in a region you want to live in. Otherwise you might seriously regret some of the decisions that people are contemplating in this thread.

Going to Alabama because it's cheap hoping to get to NY? Let's think about that a little bit.
All the ridiculous posts exclaiming, I was planning on going to Fordham, but now I don't know because the rankings dropped, just silly and juvenile. Fordham's (or almost any school that is not in the top 10) fluctuation in the rankings will have 0 effect on your law school experience or job prospects.

All that said and with the risk of sounding like an ass, many of the posts here sound a lot like neurotic gunners, so fine, go somewhere else because the rankings changed. No time for that nonsense at FLS.

PM me with specific questions if you want more info.


Thanks for the input. Sent you a PM

This makes a lot of sense.
I was wondering now may people transfer out of Fordham to NYU/CLS?

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SteelPenguin
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby SteelPenguin » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:17 pm

I apologize if I sounded over dramatic concerning Fordham's rank last night. I was just very surprised and wasn't too sure what to make of it. This whole admissions process has me a bit overanxious, so don't take most of what I say too seriously.

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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby _empower » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:50 pm

PinkLemonade wrote:
qfjd10 wrote:
baddabing27 wrote:Not to take this in another direction - but is anyone still waiting on a decision? I haven't had an update since 2/27 for PT...


Yeah, complete on 2/5 and no movement since. Also PT

+1 but my update is 2/27 PT



Also PT. No change since 2/20.

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JayJones78
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby JayJones78 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:09 am

Anyone knows if the new building is set to be opened before next fall?

T20hopeful89
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby T20hopeful89 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:02 am

JayJones78 wrote:Anyone knows if the new building is set to be opened before next fall?



They said that it's going to open in September 2014 (aka next fall) at ASD.

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JayJones78
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby JayJones78 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:10 am

T20hopeful89 wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:Anyone knows if the new building is set to be opened before next fall?



They said that it's going to open in September 2014 (aka next fall) at ASD.


Cool. It looks really impressive

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SteelPenguin
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Re: Fordham c/o 2016/17 (2012-2013 Cycle)

Postby SteelPenguin » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:42 am

T20hopeful89 wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:Anyone knows if the new building is set to be opened before next fall?



They said that it's going to open in September 2014 (aka next fall) at ASD.


Are you sure? I kept hearing "opening in 2014." I don't remember who it was, but a couple of staff members that mentioned it said it could be as early as winter/spring 2014.




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