Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

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Cobretti
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Cobretti » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:45 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:Why does lst say NU will cost 290 undiscounted? ~55k/yr and ~25 col would be ~240. Where's the other 50k coming from?

The interest that accumulates over the three years.


(54.76+26.46)*1.079^3 + (56.41+27.00)*1.079^2 + (58.10+27.53)*1.079 = 291.52
(used 3% annual tuition hikes and 2% inflation for COL)
I know the first year COL has a laptop expense added in, so actual 2L and 3L COL should be slightly lower, probably ends very close to 290k.

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Micdiddy
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Micdiddy » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:51 pm

One of the smart ones huh? I'm lucky NU doesn't rank.

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untar614
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby untar614 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:56 pm

Micdiddy wrote:One of the smart ones huh? I'm lucky NU doesn't rank.


Yeah so how is that gonna work exactly when it comes to job applications? And do interviewers at OCI never get to know where you are in the class?

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:58 pm

Micdiddy wrote:Yeah I was also looking at this. Michigan made a huge improvement in law firm placement. Makes it more attractive, IMO whereas NU basically stayed the same but did dip a bit :(
There's always some variance year to year, NU is still pretty consistently great for big law so nothing to fret over too much, IMO.



I'm looking between Mich and NU right now, but NU with a lot more money. I'd rather live in the Chi than A2 though. I do wonder if the cutting in class sizes/increase in tuition means the c/o 2016 will have improved employment #s.

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby untar614 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:00 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:Yeah I was also looking at this. Michigan made a huge improvement in law firm placement. Makes it more attractive, IMO whereas NU basically stayed the same but did dip a bit :(
There's always some variance year to year, NU is still pretty consistently great for big law so nothing to fret over too much, IMO.



I'm looking between Mich and NU right now, but NU with a lot more money. I'd rather live in the Chi than A2 though. I do wonder if the cutting in class sizes/increase in tuition means the c/o 2016 will have improved employment #s.


what's the thinking behind a correlation between increased tuition and better employment #s?

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Samara
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Samara » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:02 pm

untar614 wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:One of the smart ones huh? I'm lucky NU doesn't rank.


Yeah so how is that gonna work exactly when it comes to job applications? And do interviewers at OCI never get to know where you are in the class?

There's no official rank, but employers can figure it out roughly. One nice thing about NU's grading system is that we have a high median so firms, especially ones unfamiliar with NU, might estimate your rank higher than it actually is. Another is that there is a lot more granularity along the scale. At some schools, the difference between median and top 1/3 is small.

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby FlowBro » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:06 pm

Samara wrote:
untar614 wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:One of the smart ones huh? I'm lucky NU doesn't rank.


Yeah so how is that gonna work exactly when it comes to job applications? And do interviewers at OCI never get to know where you are in the class?

There's no official rank, but employers can figure it out roughly. One nice thing about NU's grading system is that we have a high median so firms, especially ones unfamiliar with NU, might estimate your rank higher than it actually is. Another is that there is a lot more granularity along the scale. At some schools, the difference between median and top 1/3 is small.


Great information to know! I think that C/O 2016 will be in a much better place than say C/O 2012...I can just feel it in my bones!

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:08 pm

mrizza wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:Why does lst say NU will cost 290 undiscounted? ~55k/yr and ~25 col would be ~240. Where's the other 50k coming from?

The interest that accumulates over the three years.


(54.76+26.46)*1.079^3 + (56.41+27.00)*1.079^2 + (58.10+27.53)*1.079 = 291.52
(used 3% annual tuition hikes and 2% inflation for COL)
I know the first year COL has a laptop expense added in, so actual 2L and 3L COL should be slightly lower, probably ends very close to 290k.


I'm stupid. For those of us with scholarships, do we just take 291.52 and subtract the scholarship? Or do we subtract the amount from each year since interest would be different? :shock: :oops: I haven't taken a math course in...6 years now. I'm rusty past basic rent+utilities payments.

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby untar614 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:09 pm

FlowBro wrote:
Samara wrote:
untar614 wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:One of the smart ones huh? I'm lucky NU doesn't rank.


Yeah so how is that gonna work exactly when it comes to job applications? And do interviewers at OCI never get to know where you are in the class?

There's no official rank, but employers can figure it out roughly. One nice thing about NU's grading system is that we have a high median so firms, especially ones unfamiliar with NU, might estimate your rank higher than it actually is. Another is that there is a lot more granularity along the scale. At some schools, the difference between median and top 1/3 is small.


Great information to know! I think that C/O 2016 will be in a much better place than say C/O 2012...I can just feel it in my bones!


definitely, we got this.

I bet c/o 2012 don't even lift.


...

so regarding OCI, I think I read that it's done randomly? Can u shed some more light on that?

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby untar614 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:09 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
mrizza wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:Why does lst say NU will cost 290 undiscounted? ~55k/yr and ~25 col would be ~240. Where's the other 50k coming from?

The interest that accumulates over the three years.


(54.76+26.46)*1.079^3 + (56.41+27.00)*1.079^2 + (58.10+27.53)*1.079 = 291.52
(used 3% annual tuition hikes and 2% inflation for COL)
I know the first year COL has a laptop expense added in, so actual 2L and 3L COL should be slightly lower, probably ends very close to 290k.


I'm stupid. For those of us with scholarships, do we just take 291.52 and subtract the scholarship? Or do we subtract the amount from each year since interest would be different? :shock: :oops: I haven't taken a math course in...6 years now. I'm rusty past basic rent+utilities payments.


The latter

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby bk1 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:10 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
mrizza wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:Why does lst say NU will cost 290 undiscounted? ~55k/yr and ~25 col would be ~240. Where's the other 50k coming from?

The interest that accumulates over the three years.


(54.76+26.46)*1.079^3 + (56.41+27.00)*1.079^2 + (58.10+27.53)*1.079 = 291.52
(used 3% annual tuition hikes and 2% inflation for COL)
I know the first year COL has a laptop expense added in, so actual 2L and 3L COL should be slightly lower, probably ends very close to 290k.


I'm stupid. For those of us with scholarships, do we just take 291.52 and subtract the scholarship? Or do we subtract the amount from each year since interest would be different? :shock: :oops: I haven't taken a math course in...6 years now. I'm rusty past basic rent+utilities payments.

This is what the Georgetown debt calculator is for.

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Samara
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Samara » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:14 pm

untar614 wrote:so regarding OCI, I think I read that it's done randomly? Can u shed some more light on that?

It's a bid system. You rank the firms you want and the interview slots are distributed by people's rankings. Firms don't pre-select or anything like that. Nothing you really need to worry about right now, but there's a good thread on last year's OCI if you want more information.

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Cobretti » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:20 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
mrizza wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:Why does lst say NU will cost 290 undiscounted? ~55k/yr and ~25 col would be ~240. Where's the other 50k coming from?

The interest that accumulates over the three years.


(54.76+26.46)*1.079^3 + (56.41+27.00)*1.079^2 + (58.10+27.53)*1.079 = 291.52
(used 3% annual tuition hikes and 2% inflation for COL)
I know the first year COL has a laptop expense added in, so actual 2L and 3L COL should be slightly lower, probably ends very close to 290k.


I'm stupid. For those of us with scholarships, do we just take 291.52 and subtract the scholarship? Or do we subtract the amount from each year since interest would be different? :shock: :oops: I haven't taken a math course in...6 years now. I'm rusty past basic rent+utilities payments.

Another thing is the stafford loan is 6.8%, so 20k of each year is at a lower rate. so if you got 120k your exact amount would be

20.0*1.068^3 + (34.76+26.46-40.0)*1.079^3 + 20.0*1.068^2 + (36.41+27.0-40.0)*1.079^2 + 20.0*1.068 + (38.1+27.53-40)*1.079 = 150.1K

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:29 pm

mrizza wrote:Another thing is the stafford loan is 6.8%, so 20k of each year is at a lower rate. so if you got 120k your exact amount would be

20.0*1.068^3 + (34.76+26.46-40.0)*1.079^3 + 20.0*1.068^2 + (36.41+27.0-40.0)*1.079^2 + 20.0*1.068 + (38.1+27.53-40)*1.079 = 150.1K


thank you for breaking it down for me. still trying to parse out the ^s and the numbers exactly. thanks for being patient.

good news: 120k is really like 140k savings

bad news: still 150k in loans

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Cobretti
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Cobretti » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:36 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
mrizza wrote:Another thing is the stafford loan is 6.8%, so 20k of each year is at a lower rate. so if you got 120k your exact amount would be

20.0*1.068^3 + (34.76+26.46-40.0)*1.079^3 + 20.0*1.068^2 + (36.41+27.0-40.0)*1.079^2 + 20.0*1.068 + (38.1+27.53-40)*1.079 = 150.1K


thank you for breaking it down for me. still trying to parse out the ^s and the numbers exactly. thanks for being patient.

good news: 120k is really like 140k savings

bad news: still 150k in loans

np

Its a lot more than 140k in savings. interest keeps accumulating as you pay it down. with 150k you can easily pay it off in 4 years and probably pay something like ~29k in interest, 290k would take more like 10 years, and would pay ~100k on interest alone. I didn't build out a whole excel doc to do this exactly so the 29 and 100 are crude estimations, but your total savings should be 120k + (100k-29k) = 191k
its a big fucking deal

ETA: before someone tells me to calculate NPV: no

ETA2: the ^s just mean its an exponent. so the first numbers are cubed, next set are squared

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:46 pm

mrizza wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:
mrizza wrote:Another thing is the stafford loan is 6.8%, so 20k of each year is at a lower rate. so if you got 120k your exact amount would be

20.0*1.068^3 + (34.76+26.46-40.0)*1.079^3 + 20.0*1.068^2 + (36.41+27.0-40.0)*1.079^2 + 20.0*1.068 + (38.1+27.53-40)*1.079 = 150.1K


thank you for breaking it down for me. still trying to parse out the ^s and the numbers exactly. thanks for being patient.

good news: 120k is really like 140k savings

bad news: still 150k in loans

np

Its a lot more than 140k in savings. interest keeps accumulating as you pay it down. with 150k you can easily pay it off in 4 years and probably pay something like ~29k in interest, 290k would take more like 10 years, and would pay ~100k on interest alone. I didn't build out a whole excel doc to do this exactly so the 29 and 100 are crude estimations, but your total savings should be 120k + (100k-29k) = 191k
its a big fucking deal

ETA: before someone tells me to calculate NPV: no


sorry to derail the thread, but:

as someone who's currently living/earning less than 15k/year and making it work, the CoL estimates seem SO SO high. Berkeley is another choice for me and they allocate $3,081 per semester for food. Am I eating lobster and caviar every night?Obviously my rent now is less (will probably have to pay $400/month more altogether for a Chi-town studio, but still). Additionally I think while in biglaw i'd still be living somewhere under my means (because i probably won't be there a lot anyway) so would be focused on really aggressively paying back the loans.

I guess also we could take (hopeful) income from a 2L SA and use that to pay down some of the debt while still in LS? That would be probably 5-10k max to put toward loans, but every bit counts.

sorry just speculating. WHATS UP FUN SATURDAY NIGHT!? this time next week we'll be partying in chi.

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Cobretti » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:55 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
mrizza wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:
mrizza wrote:Another thing is the stafford loan is 6.8%, so 20k of each year is at a lower rate. so if you got 120k your exact amount would be

20.0*1.068^3 + (34.76+26.46-40.0)*1.079^3 + 20.0*1.068^2 + (36.41+27.0-40.0)*1.079^2 + 20.0*1.068 + (38.1+27.53-40)*1.079 = 150.1K


thank you for breaking it down for me. still trying to parse out the ^s and the numbers exactly. thanks for being patient.

good news: 120k is really like 140k savings

bad news: still 150k in loans

np

Its a lot more than 140k in savings. interest keeps accumulating as you pay it down. with 150k you can easily pay it off in 4 years and probably pay something like ~29k in interest, 290k would take more like 10 years, and would pay ~100k on interest alone. I didn't build out a whole excel doc to do this exactly so the 29 and 100 are crude estimations, but your total savings should be 120k + (100k-29k) = 191k
its a big fucking deal

ETA: before someone tells me to calculate NPV: no


sorry to derail the thread, but:

as someone who's currently living/earning less than 15k/year and making it work, the CoL estimates seem SO SO high. Berkeley is another choice for me and they allocate $3,081 per semester for food. Am I eating lobster and caviar every night?Obviously my rent now is less (will probably have to pay $400/month more altogether for a Chi-town studio, but still). Additionally I think while in biglaw i'd still be living somewhere under my means (because i probably won't be there a lot anyway) so would be focused on really aggressively paying back the loans.

I guess also we could take (hopeful) income from a 2L SA and use that to pay down some of the debt while still in LS? That would be probably 5-10k max to put toward loans, but every bit counts.

sorry just speculating. WHATS UP FUN SATURDAY NIGHT!? this time next week we'll be partying in chi.

ya that's a good point, 2L SA is significant $. You can certainly pay down more aggressively, but 4k/month is already pretty extreme, and if you take it too far and look homeless when talking to clients it might actually lose you money.

1lb lobster and 1oz caviar per night = $89MP. lobster + caviar every day for a year = $32k 8)

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby bk1 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:57 pm

2L SA isn't necessarily a huge factor. Remember that CoA estimates don't factor in 1L, 2L, or 3L summers.

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:58 pm

mrizza wrote:ya that's a good point, 2L SA is significant $. You can certainly pay down more aggressively, but 4k/month is already pretty extreme, and if you take it too far and look homeless when talking to clients it might actually lose you money.

1lb lobster and 1oz caviar per night = $89MP. lobster + caviar every day for a year = $32k 8)



Very true. Being free in 4 years isn't bad, all things considered.


Obviously Berkeley has never heard of Trader Joe's and 2 buck chuck.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:59 pm

bk1 wrote:2L SA isn't necessarily a huge factor. Remember that CoA estimates don't factor in 1L, 2L, or 3L summers.



oh shit, you're right. thank you- i actually forgot about that. probably break even at best.

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Cobretti
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Cobretti » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:01 pm

bk1 wrote:2L SA isn't necessarily a huge factor. Remember that CoA estimates don't factor in 1L, 2L, or 3L summers.

well if they allow 26k to cover 9 months, there would be an additional 26k to cover the 9 months of summer total, and 2L SA is 30K before taxes, so its still relatively close to covering everything and coming out even. if you don't work for free 1L you're probably even and the original calculations work. I've heard delayed starts after 3L are very common, but if you could avoid that, that's less time not earning as well.

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Cobretti
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Cobretti » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:03 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
mrizza wrote:ya that's a good point, 2L SA is significant $. You can certainly pay down more aggressively, but 4k/month is already pretty extreme, and if you take it too far and look homeless when talking to clients it might actually lose you money.

1lb lobster and 1oz caviar per night = $89MP. lobster + caviar every day for a year = $32k 8)



Very true. Being free in 4 years isn't bad, all things considered.


Obviously Berkeley has never heard of Trader Joe's and 2 buck chuck.

Is it still 2 bucks up there? its 3 in socal now... :|

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Big Dog » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:03 pm

as someone who's currently living/earning less than 15k/year and making it work, the CoL estimates seem SO SO high.


In general, law schools estimate high. And that is so folks can borrow as much as they might need, without running out of money by May. (According to federal law, you can only borrow up to the COA, so law schools estimate high.)

erkeley is another choice for me and they allocate $3,081 per semester for food. Am I eating lobster and caviar every night?


Just Chez Panisse. :mrgreen:

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby bk1 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:16 pm

mrizza wrote:well if they allow 26k to cover 9 months, there would be an additional 26k to cover the 9 months of summer total, and 2L SA is 30K before taxes, so its still relatively close to covering everything and coming out even. if you don't work for free 1L you're probably even and the original calculations work. I've heard delayed starts after 3L are very common, but if you could avoid that, that's less time not earning as well.

If we're assuming biglaw (and that's not necessarily a safe assumption), then yes this is relatively correct. Though I think the earliest that most biglaw firms start is September (4 months after graduation), if not later.

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Micdiddy » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:20 pm

Does NU provide us with financial advisors?


Half joking...




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