Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

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WhatOurBodiesAreFor
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:43 am

Icculus wrote: Okay, 0L, would you like to explain to my above median friends who are personable and intelligent why they don't have a job then? Legal hiring, while numbers driven, is not all about numbers. Yes, top 10% at a T14 is probably set, but "average" is not, even now. Would you further like to explain to my no-offered friends, who were no offered because the firms over hired their SA class that they have no reason to worry because since they are median at a T14 they will have a nice and stable and lucrative career?

Yes, the T14 is a good bet compared to many other schools, but you're assessment of legal hiring is uninformed. Once you get past say the top 25% it is not as simple to say median and above = job and below median = no job. But as an 0L it's good you can explain what border line information is here. And as much as you may hate to believe it, much of hiring and being offered is luck (right place right time) or factors other than grades (work experience, affinity groups, personality, fit.

Edit: I also know a few people who were top 10-20% on LR who had trouble finding work because of fit/poor bidding/bad luck.


I'm not asserting anything that isn't supported by numbers. OK, not 0L?

If you read what I said closely, I said the average T-14 grad will have a great job at graduation, not a median T-14 grad. Way over 50% of grads have great jobs at graduation at any T-14 besides GULC. At GULC, what is it, like 60%?

Just because you can come up with a few counterexamples doesn't mean that for the majority of students, the investment didn't paid off big time. Come on...

As a 0L I can indeed tell what misinformation is. According to any numbers I have ever seen on T-14 grads, you don't have to be lucky enough to land a good job, you have to be unlucky enough not to land a good job. So, wording it as such was indeed misinformation.

Perhaps by "lucky enough" s/he meant that landing a job will come down to a lot more than just numbers. (But he didn't, and the above comment regarding the majority of students get good jobs still holds true). This is the way I think you are reading it. And to this I appreciate you shining light on this issue. (Even though no one would ever assume all above median students get good jobs in graduating classes of 300, and even though this whole presenting counterexamples thing really doesn't speak to the reality that for the vast majority of people their investment paid off.

One more point. What types of jobs did these counterexamples strike out at? Biglaw/clerkships? Or at getting a job altogether? Maybe your friends will have to stay in the home market or go back to where they grew up to get a job, but I'm sure they can find one somewhere, no? I make this point because if I went to my TTT state school I would struggle to find any sort of job at graduation. Sure, I'd have 0 debt, but look what I have done to myself in the long-term.

As I said, I'm a 0L and have no first-hand experience. So, please correct me if I'm wrong. It's just that I hate when people get on here and don't present all the facts. I'm just looking at numbers here; I'm not trying to assert anything just for the sake of doing so (what motive would I have to do this anyway? I'm here mulling over my own decision, which is why I'm here after all).

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Icculus » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:23 pm

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:
Icculus wrote: Okay, 0L, would you like to explain to my above median friends who are personable and intelligent why they don't have a job then? Legal hiring, while numbers driven, is not all about numbers. Yes, top 10% at a T14 is probably set, but "average" is not, even now. Would you further like to explain to my no-offered friends, who were no offered because the firms over hired their SA class that they have no reason to worry because since they are median at a T14 they will have a nice and stable and lucrative career?

Yes, the T14 is a good bet compared to many other schools, but you're assessment of legal hiring is uninformed. Once you get past say the top 25% it is not as simple to say median and above = job and below median = no job. But as an 0L it's good you can explain what border line information is here. And as much as you may hate to believe it, much of hiring and being offered is luck (right place right time) or factors other than grades (work experience, affinity groups, personality, fit.

Edit: I also know a few people who were top 10-20% on LR who had trouble finding work because of fit/poor bidding/bad luck.


I'm not asserting anything that isn't supported by numbers. OK, not 0L?

If you read what I said closely, I said the average T-14 grad will have a great job at graduation, not a median T-14 grad. Way over 50% of grads have great jobs at graduation at any T-14 besides GULC. At GULC, what is it, like 60%?

Just because you can come up with a few counterexamples doesn't mean that for the majority of students, the investment didn't paid off big time. Come on...

As a 0L I can indeed tell what misinformation is. According to any numbers I have ever seen on T-14 grads, you don't have to be lucky enough to land a good job, you have to be unlucky enough not to land a good job. So, wording it as such was indeed misinformation.

Perhaps by "lucky enough" s/he meant that landing a job will come down to a lot more than just numbers. (But he didn't, and the above comment regarding the majority of students get good jobs still holds true). This is the way I think you are reading it. And to this I appreciate you shining light on this issue. (Even though no one would ever assume all above median students get good jobs in graduating classes of 300, and even though this whole presenting counterexamples thing really doesn't speak to the reality that for the vast majority of people their investment paid off.

One more point. What types of jobs did these counterexamples strike out at? Biglaw/clerkships? Or at getting a job altogether? Maybe your friends will have to stay in the home market or go back to where they grew up to get a job, but I'm sure they can find one somewhere, no? I make this point because if I went to my TTT state school I would struggle to find any sort of job at graduation. Sure, I'd have 0 debt, but look what I have done to myself in the long-term.

As I said, I'm a 0L and have no first-hand experience. So, please correct me if I'm wrong. It's just that I hate when people get on here and don't present all the facts. I'm just looking at numbers here; I'm not trying to assert anything just for the sake of doing so (what motive would I have to do this anyway? I'm here mulling over my own decision, which is why I'm here after all).


Perhaps I misunderstood your point, but when I say no job, I mean no job. Not a shitty job. What I would say is many people think above median = job secured which is not true, and I just wanted to make sure that people don't continue with that thought. yes, your average T14 grad is better off than your non-T14 grad. At that same time, paying sticker even for a T14 is risky considering you end up with about a coin's flip chance of landing a job that can pay off the debt. I also went into this eyes wide open, ready to drop out if need be, and 10 years out of undergrad so I did the cost benefit analysis. I just wish more people would do that rather than just saying, "Oh, I only need to make median and I'll be good." Especially since median is no guarantee. So it seems we agree in the abstract. I am not one to argue the 0 debt over T14 route, hell I pay sticker, but more prospective students should really figure out what the want before they take up $200K in debt. And I may be bias, but I would say NU and most other T14s are worth sticker so long as you're willing to cut and run if it becomes necessary. I knew I had a job I could return to if this didn't work out, so for me it was less risky to drop out after 1L or in the middle of 1L.

Full disclosure: I was in a shit mood last night for a variety of reasons and this may have colored my response.

/off topic rant

onionz
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby onionz » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:27 pm

They released decisions on Tuesday last week, maybe we'll get lucky again!

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zoidberg86
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby zoidberg86 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:49 pm

onionz wrote:They released decisions on Tuesday last week, maybe we'll get lucky again!


+1. Hoping that's the case today.

shntn
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby shntn » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:54 pm

Last edited by shntn on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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feralinfant
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby feralinfant » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:55 pm

shntn wrote:More decisions today!


aww shit.

looks ill be staring at my 12/19 status date for the rest of the day.

onionz
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby onionz » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:58 pm

I'd give anything for the ED>RD people to get some love. Here's hoping!

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JayJones78
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby JayJones78 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:59 pm

feralinfant wrote:
shntn wrote:More decisions today!


aww shit.

looks ill be staring at my 12/19 status date for the rest of the day.


The paranoia begins

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zoidberg86
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby zoidberg86 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:59 pm



Johann ‏@tweetsbyjohann
To my decision delivery system: pleasedontcrashpleasedontcrashpleasedontcrash!

steakandchicken
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby steakandchicken » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:00 pm

Decision Letter Available within 24 hrs

Sent 1/6
Complete 1/8

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feralinfant
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby feralinfant » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:02 pm

steakandchicken wrote:Decision Letter Available within 24 hrs

Sent 1/6
Complete 1/8


!!!! its already starting? i was assuming wed have nothing till the afternoon. oh dear lord.

steakandchicken
Posts: 91
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby steakandchicken » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:03 pm

feralinfant wrote:
steakandchicken wrote:Decision Letter Available within 24 hrs

Sent 1/6
Complete 1/8


!!!! its already starting? i was assuming wed have nothing till the afternoon. oh dear lord.


Yeah my status checker *just* changed to that. I haven't been keeping up with NW procedures. What do I do now?

T20hopeful89
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby T20hopeful89 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:04 pm

feralinfant wrote:
shntn wrote:More decisions today!


aww shit.

looks ill be staring at my 12/19 status date for the rest of the day.



I'm still staring at 10/26 - the date I originally went complete =(

masked kavana
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby masked kavana » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:04 pm

Ugh still complete as of mid-September.

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JayJones78
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby JayJones78 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:04 pm

steakandchicken wrote:Decision Letter Available within 24 hrs

Sent 1/6
Complete 1/8


That's what the status checker said?
I'm assuming you're a 3yr JD?

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zoidberg86
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby zoidberg86 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:05 pm

T20hopeful89 wrote:
feralinfant wrote:
shntn wrote:More decisions today!


aww shit.

looks ill be staring at my 12/19 status date for the rest of the day.



I'm still staring at 10/26 - the date I originally went complete =(


Yeah, that 10/16 hurts every time I see it.

shntn
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby shntn » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:05 pm

No AJD decisions this week.

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robot_socrates
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby robot_socrates » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:06 pm

Is the login to see the decision letter the same as for the regular status?

shntn
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby shntn » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:06 pm

robot_socrates wrote:Is the login to see the decision letter the same as for the regular status?

Yes.

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feralinfant
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby feralinfant » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:06 pm

steakandchicken wrote:
feralinfant wrote:
steakandchicken wrote:Decision Letter Available within 24 hrs

Sent 1/6
Complete 1/8


!!!! its already starting? i was assuming wed have nothing till the afternoon. oh dear lord.


Yeah my status checker *just* changed to that. I haven't been keeping up with NW procedures. What do I do now?


youll go here: https://www.law.northwestern.edu/form/ADM_CheckStatus_Login.cfm and plug in your status checker info and then you can download a pdf of the letter. it can take a few hours for this to work though. you just need to be patient.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Icculus » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:07 pm

feralinfant wrote:
steakandchicken wrote:
feralinfant wrote:
steakandchicken wrote:Decision Letter Available within 24 hrs

Sent 1/6
Complete 1/8


!!!! its already starting? i was assuming wed have nothing till the afternoon. oh dear lord.


Yeah my status checker *just* changed to that. I haven't been keeping up with NW procedures. What do I do now?


youll go here: https://www.law.northwestern.edu/form/ADM_CheckStatus_Login.cfm and plug in your status checker info and then you can download a pdf of the letter. it can take a few hours for this to work though. you just need to be patient.


GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!!

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danitt
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby danitt » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:08 pm

masked kavana wrote:Ugh still complete as of mid-September.

Still complete from 12/4. I just want to knooooow NU!!!!

steakandchicken
Posts: 91
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby steakandchicken » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:08 pm

JayJones78 wrote:
steakandchicken wrote:Decision Letter Available within 24 hrs

Sent 1/6
Complete 1/8


That's what the status checker said?
I'm assuming you're a 3yr JD?


Yes that's my new status, applied for traditional program.

steakandchicken
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:47 pm

Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby steakandchicken » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:09 pm

feralinfant wrote:
steakandchicken wrote:
feralinfant wrote:
steakandchicken wrote:Decision Letter Available within 24 hrs

Sent 1/6
Complete 1/8


!!!! its already starting? i was assuming wed have nothing till the afternoon. oh dear lord.


Yeah my status checker *just* changed to that. I haven't been keeping up with NW procedures. What do I do now?


youll go here: https://www.law.northwestern.edu/form/ADM_CheckStatus_Login.cfm and plug in your status checker info and then you can download a pdf of the letter. it can take a few hours for this to work though. you just need to be patient.


Danke! I will do my best.

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JayJones78
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby JayJones78 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:12 pm

shntn wrote:No AJD decisions this week.


Where did you get this info from?
:cry:




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