Icculus wrote: Okay, 0L, would you like to explain to my above median friends who are personable and intelligent why they don't have a job then? Legal hiring, while numbers driven, is not all about numbers. Yes, top 10% at a T14 is probably set, but "average" is not, even now. Would you further like to explain to my no-offered friends, who were no offered because the firms over hired their SA class that they have no reason to worry because since they are median at a T14 they will have a nice and stable and lucrative career?
Yes, the T14 is a good bet compared to many other schools, but you're assessment of legal hiring is uninformed. Once you get past say the top 25% it is not as simple to say median and above = job and below median = no job. But as an 0L it's good you can explain what border line information is here. And as much as you may hate to believe it, much of hiring and being offered is luck (right place right time) or factors other than grades (work experience, affinity groups, personality, fit.
Edit: I also know a few people who were top 10-20% on LR who had trouble finding work because of fit/poor bidding/bad luck.
I'm not asserting anything that isn't supported by numbers. OK, not 0L?
If you read what I said closely, I said the average T-14 grad will have a great job at graduation, not a median T-14 grad. Way over 50% of grads have great jobs at graduation at any T-14 besides GULC. At GULC, what is it, like 60%?
Just because you can come up with a few counterexamples doesn't mean that for the majority of students, the investment didn't paid off big time. Come on...
As a 0L I can indeed tell what misinformation is. According to any numbers I have ever seen on T-14 grads, you don't have to be lucky enough to land a good job, you have to be unlucky enough not to land a good job. So, wording it as such was indeed misinformation.
Perhaps by "lucky enough" s/he meant that landing a job will come down to a lot more than just numbers. (But he didn't, and the above comment regarding the majority of students get good jobs still holds true). This is the way I think you are reading it. And to this I appreciate you shining light on this issue. (Even though no one would ever assume all above median students get good jobs in graduating classes of 300, and even though this whole presenting counterexamples thing really doesn't speak to the reality that for the vast majority of people their investment paid off.
One more point. What types of jobs did these counterexamples strike out at? Biglaw/clerkships? Or at getting a job altogether? Maybe your friends will have to stay in the home market or go back to where they grew up to get a job, but I'm sure they can find one somewhere, no? I make this point because if I went to my TTT state school I would struggle to find any sort of job at graduation. Sure, I'd have 0 debt, but look what I have done to myself in the long-term.
As I said, I'm a 0L and have no first-hand experience. So, please correct me if I'm wrong. It's just that I hate when people get on here and don't present all the facts. I'm just looking at numbers here; I'm not trying to assert anything just for the sake of doing so (what motive would I have to do this anyway? I'm here mulling over my own decision, which is why I'm here after all).