Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

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HawkeyeGirl
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby HawkeyeGirl » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:20 pm

teiswei wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:
teiswei wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:Good to know that there are places to live close to campus. I didn't see any when I visited. I personally hate busses and wish there was a different way for public transit :roll:

There are several. The L isn't bad at all, walking and biking are common and you could always get a Segway ;)


Hahaha re Segway 8)
I found the L useful but at the same time a little annoying cause you can't really relay on it completely (at least not as far as I saw in my 3 day visit). Do people take their bikes on it/is it allowed? If so it can be a nice combo of bike/L

They do but I think you aren't allowed during rush hour times. No where would be outside of biking distance though. Even lake view and Lincoln Park would be a quick ride.


FWIW - Rahm is trying to make Chicago a super bike-friendly town, so they're installing a lot of new bike lanes.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:24 pm

helpplease wrote:Sorry to shy away from what seems like a thrilling conversation regarding freezing temperatures and living arrangements (LOL), but I had a serious questions that I really wanted to ask...

Would anybody consider going to northwestern at sticker? It's one of my dream schools, but if I get in...probably not getting any $$.

I know quite a few people who are. I was planning for sticker because I'd deferred a year to attend and had zero leverage, but they threw some money at me anyway, for which I am extremely grateful.

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HawkeyeGirl
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby HawkeyeGirl » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:28 pm

helpplease wrote:Sorry to shy away from what seems like a thrilling conversation regarding freezing temperatures and living arrangements (LOL), but I had a serious questions that I really wanted to ask...

Would anybody consider going to northwestern at sticker? It's one of my dream schools, but if I get in...probably not getting any $$.


I'm applying for the JD/MBA program which costs $72k/year, so it's highly likely I will be paying at or above JD sticker. :shock: But maybe they'll love me and give me a little help

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teiswei
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby teiswei » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:29 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
helpplease wrote:Sorry to shy away from what seems like a thrilling conversation regarding freezing temperatures and living arrangements (LOL), but I had a serious questions that I really wanted to ask...

Would anybody consider going to northwestern at sticker? It's one of my dream schools, but if I get in...probably not getting any $$.

I know quite a few people who are. I was planning for sticker because I'd deferred a year to attend and had zero leverage, but they threw some money at me anyway, for which I am extremely grateful.

I will. Name recognition is very strong and has helped me land a couple jobs (grad degree and I have pretty solid work experience so it's not the degree alone). The alumni network is very strong and there are a ton of gatherings.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Icculus » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:36 pm

helpplease wrote:Sorry to shy away from what seems like a thrilling conversation regarding freezing temperatures and living arrangements (LOL), but I had a serious questions that I really wanted to ask...

Would anybody consider going to northwestern at sticker? It's one of my dream schools, but if I get in...probably not getting any $$.


I am a 2L who pays sticker right now and but I didn't have much of a choice since I was a super splitter and applied in a year when they were not giving people with my numbers any scholarship money. I can say that while I am happy with my decision when I do think about the amount I owe it is a bit overwhelming. I also would say I made the decision that if after 1st semester 1L or after all of 1L I was below median I was going to drop out.

In terms of paying sticker I think NU does give you a good enough chance to make biglaw that it's worth it, but that doesn't mean it isn't a bit worrisome at times.

helpplease
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby helpplease » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:06 pm

Icculus wrote:
helpplease wrote:Sorry to shy away from what seems like a thrilling conversation regarding freezing temperatures and living arrangements (LOL), but I had a serious questions that I really wanted to ask...

Would anybody consider going to northwestern at sticker? It's one of my dream schools, but if I get in...probably not getting any $$.


I am a 2L who pays sticker right now and but I didn't have much of a choice since I was a super splitter and applied in a year when they were not giving people with my numbers any scholarship money. I can say that while I am happy with my decision when I do think about the amount I owe it is a bit overwhelming. I also would say I made the decision that if after 1st semester 1L or after all of 1L I was below median I was going to drop out.

In terms of paying sticker I think NU does give you a good enough chance to make biglaw that it's worth it, but that doesn't mean it isn't a bit worrisome at times.


Thank you for all your responses!

Icculus, that is mainly what I'm concerned about. I got a full ride to a regional school in Houston (which is where I ultimately want to practice) but I'd have to be in the top 15% for a chance at big law. While I do think I still have a shot at getting admitted to T14 schools, I know I won't be getting any money. What worries me is the competition ill be facing if I do go to a school like northwestern. Since you're a 2L, I'm assuming you did well enough to justify continuing...any advice for splitters and their chances of being in the top 40% or so?

helpplease
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby helpplease » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:09 pm

teiswei wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
helpplease wrote:Sorry to shy away from what seems like a thrilling conversation regarding freezing temperatures and living arrangements (LOL), but I had a serious questions that I really wanted to ask...

Would anybody consider going to northwestern at sticker? It's one of my dream schools, but if I get in...probably not getting any $$.

I know quite a few people who are. I was planning for sticker because I'd deferred a year to attend and had zero leverage, but they threw some money at me anyway, for which I am extremely grateful.

I will. Name recognition is very strong and has helped me land a couple jobs (grad degree and I have pretty solid work experience so it's not the degree alone). The alumni network is very strong and there are a ton of gatherings.


I understand the reputation of the school means a lot but how much can that help if you're not above median in your class?

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby DoveBodyWash » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:32 pm

Since ppl are talking about it anyway,

thought I'd post a PM I got from an Emory 3L when I asked him about paying sticker. It's def going to influence my own decision-making in the coming weeks.

I'm strongly in favor of going to a slightly lower ranked school in exchange for a lower debt load. I'll use my own stats as an example:

as a 0L: applied to Emory, got in with 72k scholly. Vandy at sticker, waitlisted then rejected at Duke. I only wanted to work in the SE, so the decision was easy.

As a 1L: finished at the top of the class. Applied and got into Harvard. Ended up not transferring because it didn't make any sense to me. I'm essentially paying an extra 100k+ for the same salary.

As a 3L: I landed a SA, but got no offered due to economic reasons (the South isn't as hesitant to no offer people). However, I'm not totally fucked. The reason why is that I saved my SA money, so I will graduate with about 30k in loans total.

Compare that to someone with 130k debt. They have an entirely different decision process. A person paying sticker at T-14 is in serious shit.

IMO, it's never worth paying sticker at T-14, but I'd take a 1/2+ scholly at a T25. The goal should be debt minimization balanced with the school. The difference between 30k and 130k is monstrous.



Edit:: I realize not everyone gets that much scholly from a lower-yet-still-decent-school and that not everyone finishes in the top of their class after 1L. Just something to think about though

spyke123
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby spyke123 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:36 pm

cusenation wrote:Since ppl are talking about it anyway,

thought I'd post a PM I got from an Emory 3L when I asked him about paying sticker. It's def going to influence my own decision-making in the coming weeks.

I'm strongly in favor of going to a slightly lower ranked school in exchange for a lower debt load. I'll use my own stats as an example:

as a 0L: applied to Emory, got in with 72k scholly. Vandy at sticker, waitlisted then rejected at Duke. I only wanted to work in the SE, so the decision was easy.

As a 1L: finished at the top of the class. Applied and got into Harvard. Ended up not transferring because it didn't make any sense to me. I'm essentially paying an extra 100k+ for the same salary.

As a 3L: I landed a SA, but got no offered due to economic reasons (the South isn't as hesitant to no offer people). However, I'm not totally fucked. The reason why is that I saved my SA money, so I will graduate with about 30k in loans total.

Compare that to someone with 130k debt. They have an entirely different decision process. A person paying sticker at T-14 is in serious shit.

IMO, it's never worth paying sticker at T-14, but I'd take a 1/2+ scholly at a T25. The goal should be debt minimization balanced with the school. The difference between 30k and 130k is monstrous.



Edit:: I realize not everyone gets that much scholly from a lower-yet-still-decent-school and that not everyone finishes in the top of their class after 1L. Just something to think about though


the person probably should've gone to Harvard?.. I am in the camp that the decision should not be about minimizing expected debt, but rather maximizing expected earnings.
Last edited by spyke123 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JayJones78
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby JayJones78 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:36 pm

cusenation wrote:Since ppl are talking about it anyway,

thought I'd post a PM I got from an Emory 3L when I asked him about paying sticker. It's def going to influence my own decision-making in the coming weeks.

I'm strongly in favor of going to a slightly lower ranked school in exchange for a lower debt load. I'll use my own stats as an example:

as a 0L: applied to Emory, got in with 72k scholly. Vandy at sticker, waitlisted then rejected at Duke. I only wanted to work in the SE, so the decision was easy.

As a 1L: finished at the top of the class. Applied and got into Harvard. Ended up not transferring because it didn't make any sense to me. I'm essentially paying an extra 100k+ for the same salary.

As a 3L: I landed a SA, but got no offered due to economic reasons (the South isn't as hesitant to no offer people). However, I'm not totally fucked. The reason why is that I saved my SA money, so I will graduate with about 30k in loans total.

Compare that to someone with 130k debt. They have an entirely different decision process. A person paying sticker at T-14 is in serious shit.

IMO, it's never worth paying sticker at T-14, but I'd take a 1/2+ scholly at a T25. The goal should be debt minimization balanced with the school. The difference between 30k and 130k is monstrous.



Edit:: I realize not everyone gets that much scholly from a lower-yet-still-decent-school and that not everyone finishes in the top of their class after 1L. Just something to think about though


I think the bolded is key. For people with no/little ties and no set region to practice the decision making mechanism is widely different IMHO.

WhatOurBodiesAreFor
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:51 pm

Also, as spyke gets at, a median T-14 grad has opened up more doors than a median mid-T1 grad. (But probably not at the mid-T1's home market, obviously)

If your goal is to make a lot of money quick and live like a champ always and forever, minimize your debt. But if you don't value money that highly and really just want to see where you can go with your career, you should probably pay sticker at your best option. Right?

I wish this T-14 at sticker narrative was more coherent on TLS. Someone could have just passed by, read the pm posted above, and then made a decision without properly weighing the options.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Icculus » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:16 pm

helpplease wrote:
Icculus wrote:
helpplease wrote:Sorry to shy away from what seems like a thrilling conversation regarding freezing temperatures and living arrangements (LOL), but I had a serious questions that I really wanted to ask...

Would anybody consider going to northwestern at sticker? It's one of my dream schools, but if I get in...probably not getting any $$.


I am a 2L who pays sticker right now and but I didn't have much of a choice since I was a super splitter and applied in a year when they were not giving people with my numbers any scholarship money. I can say that while I am happy with my decision when I do think about the amount I owe it is a bit overwhelming. I also would say I made the decision that if after 1st semester 1L or after all of 1L I was below median I was going to drop out.

In terms of paying sticker I think NU does give you a good enough chance to make biglaw that it's worth it, but that doesn't mean it isn't a bit worrisome at times.


Thank you for all your responses!

Icculus, that is mainly what I'm concerned about. I got a full ride to a regional school in Houston (which is where I ultimately want to practice) but I'd have to be in the top 15% for a chance at big law. While I do think I still have a shot at getting admitted to T14 schools, I know I won't be getting any money. What worries me is the competition ill be facing if I do go to a school like northwestern. Since you're a 2L, I'm assuming you did well enough to justify continuing...any advice for splitters and their chances of being in the top 40% or so?


Honestly, I can't tell you how to stay in the top 40%. If you read these boards enough you'll realize you can do everything right and still end up below median, it's all about how you compare to your classmates.

nbj08
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby nbj08 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:46 pm

spyke123 wrote:the person probably should've gone to Harvard?.. I am in the camp that the decision should not be about minimizing expected debt, but rather maximizing expected earnings.



Agreed. The person likely wouldn't have been no-offered. I would take a biglaw job with $130k debt over no job with $30k debt any day (his/her figures, not mine).

Honesty, we're comparing Emory with Harvard. I suspect that person is trying to justify the decisions he/she has made. So I would take his/her 'advice' with a grain of salt.

See: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=emory

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby DoveBodyWash » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:00 pm

nbj08 wrote:
spyke123 wrote:the person probably should've gone to Harvard?.. I am in the camp that the decision should not be about minimizing expected debt, but rather maximizing expected earnings.



Agreed. The person likely wouldn't have been no-offered. I would take a biglaw job with $130k debt over no job with $30k debt any day (his/her figures, not mine).

Honesty, we're comparing Emory with Harvard. I suspect that person is trying to justify the decisions he/she has made. So I would take his/her 'advice' with a grain of salt.

See: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=emory


I agree that the specifics of the message aren't completely transferable, and it wasn't meant to introduce a discussion on Harvard vs. Emory. But FWIW, NU isn't Harvard either. Outside HYS (maybe CCN), paying sticker at a T-14 shouldn't always be the default decision. Maybe I'm just too debt-averse? But I'm really nervous about the idea of incurring 150-220K of loans on the assumption that I'll be lucky enough to have a long and financially stable legal career.

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:10 pm

cusenation wrote:
nbj08 wrote:
spyke123 wrote:the person probably should've gone to Harvard?.. I am in the camp that the decision should not be about minimizing expected debt, but rather maximizing expected earnings.



Agreed. The person likely wouldn't have been no-offered. I would take a biglaw job with $130k debt over no job with $30k debt any day (his/her figures, not mine).

Honesty, we're comparing Emory with Harvard. I suspect that person is trying to justify the decisions he/she has made. So I would take his/her 'advice' with a grain of salt.

See: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=emory


I agree that the specifics of the message aren't completely transferable, and it wasn't meant to introduce a discussion on Harvard vs. Emory. But FWIW, NU isn't Harvard either. Outside HYS (maybe CCN), paying sticker at a T-14 shouldn't always be the default decision. Maybe I'm just too debt-averse? But I'm really nervous about the idea of incurring 150-220K of loans on the assumption that I'll be lucky enough to have a long and financially stable legal career.


I'm a 0L and have no first-hand experience of the legal market, but wording it like this is clearly borderline misinformation. If you are an average T-14 grad you'll not only have a job upon graduation, but a stable and lucrative one at that.

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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby shntn » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:15 pm

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:I'm a 0L and have no first-hand experience of the legal market, but wording it like this is clearly borderline misinformation. If you are an average T-14 grad you'll not only have a job upon graduation, but a stable and lucrative one at that.

That might be a bit generous, but for NU specifically, over 50% of the class gets biglaw.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Icculus » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:18 pm

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:
cusenation wrote:
nbj08 wrote:
spyke123 wrote:the person probably should've gone to Harvard?.. I am in the camp that the decision should not be about minimizing expected debt, but rather maximizing expected earnings.



Agreed. The person likely wouldn't have been no-offered. I would take a biglaw job with $130k debt over no job with $30k debt any day (his/her figures, not mine).

Honesty, we're comparing Emory with Harvard. I suspect that person is trying to justify the decisions he/she has made. So I would take his/her 'advice' with a grain of salt.

See: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=emory


I agree that the specifics of the message aren't completely transferable, and it wasn't meant to introduce a discussion on Harvard vs. Emory. But FWIW, NU isn't Harvard either. Outside HYS (maybe CCN), paying sticker at a T-14 shouldn't always be the default decision. Maybe I'm just too debt-averse? But I'm really nervous about the idea of incurring 150-220K of loans on the assumption that I'll be lucky enough to have a long and financially stable legal career.


I'm a 0L and have no first-hand experience of the legal market, but wording it like this is clearly borderline misinformation. If you are an average T-14 grad you'll not only have a job upon graduation, but a stable and lucrative one at that.


Okay, 0L, would you like to explain to my above median friends who are personable and intelligent why they don't have a job then? Legal hiring, while numbers driven, is not all about numbers. Yes, top 10% at a T14 is probably set, but "average" is not, even now. Would you further like to explain to my no-offered friends, who were no offered because the firms over hired their SA class that they have no reason to worry because since they are median at a T14 they will have a nice and stable and lucrative career?

Yes, the T14 is a good bet compared to many other schools, but you're assessment of legal hiring is uninformed. Once you get past say the top 25% it is not as simple to say median and above = job and below median = no job. But as an 0L it's good you can explain what border line information is here. And as much as you may hate to believe it, much of hiring and being offered is luck (right place right time) or factors other than grades (work experience, affinity groups, personality, fit.

Edit: I also know a few people who were top 10-20% on LR who had trouble finding work because of fit/poor bidding/bad luck.
Last edited by Icculus on Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Icculus » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:19 pm

shntn wrote:
WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:I'm a 0L and have no first-hand experience of the legal market, but wording it like this is clearly borderline misinformation. If you are an average T-14 grad you'll not only have a job upon graduation, but a stable and lucrative one at that.

That might be a bit generous, but for NU specifically, over 50% of the class gets biglaw.


This does not mean the top 50% gets biglaw.

shntn
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby shntn » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:21 pm

Icculus wrote:
shntn wrote:
WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:I'm a 0L and have no first-hand experience of the legal market, but wording it like this is clearly borderline misinformation. If you are an average T-14 grad you'll not only have a job upon graduation, but a stable and lucrative one at that.

That might be a bit generous, but for NU specifically, over 50% of the class gets biglaw.


This does not mean the top 50% gets biglaw.

Never said it did.

In any event, this isn't the thread for this discussion.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby Icculus » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:23 pm

shntn wrote:
Icculus wrote:
shntn wrote:
WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:I'm a 0L and have no first-hand experience of the legal market, but wording it like this is clearly borderline misinformation. If you are an average T-14 grad you'll not only have a job upon graduation, but a stable and lucrative one at that.

That might be a bit generous, but for NU specifically, over 50% of the class gets biglaw.


This does not mean the top 50% gets biglaw.

Never said it did.


This was more a reference to the assertion by WhatOurBodiesAreFor.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby DoveBodyWash » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:23 pm

shntn wrote:
WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:I'm a 0L and have no first-hand experience of the legal market, but wording it like this is clearly borderline misinformation. If you are an average T-14 grad you'll not only have a job upon graduation, but a stable and lucrative one at that.

That might be a bit generous, but for NU specifically, over 50% of the class gets biglaw.


I don't think anyone can simply assume that a BigLaw career is stable. Yes it's also false to say that they're always unstable, and I'm not advocating for the "all law school grads and all BigLaw associates are doomed" position that a lot of scamblogs advocate. But surely we can't responsibly just assume that BigLaw is always a stable career path once you get your foot in the door.

150K-220K of debt (with accruing interest) is a lot of money. It takes time to pay that off, even on BigLaw Saturday. And it will also require some significant personal sacrifices, especially personal goals that require financial investment (marriage, kids, house etc...)

I'm not trying to make any broad statements about other people "should" do...I'm just saying that I sympathize with those that are concerned about debt when making the "T-14 sticker vs Lower School w/ Scholly" decision

guinness1547
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby guinness1547 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:24 pm

Going to a lower ranked school doesn't mean you'll automatically be the top of the class.

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JayJones78
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby JayJones78 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:50 pm

Stirring-off for a second:

I was wondering if anyone here - perhaps current students? - knows if the numbers of the accepted AJDs get reported for ranking purposes? I heard different things in the last few weeks but nothing concreat or explanations to why yes/no. Since the entering AJDs will actually be 2L in the fall of '13 and won't graduate with the accepted 3yr JDs there could be some truth to the idea that it's not reported no? Plus since some get accepted with the LSAT and others with the GMAT is another factor?

There is little to no info about the AJD application process but it appears it's a little different (for example the admission officers I talked to told me in two different conversations that the AJD is not based on rolling admissions and that no app will get looked at before 1/15)

Any thighs or advice would be great!
Thanks. I think this thread is overall incredibly useful!

FlowBro
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby FlowBro » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:15 am

Interviewed today, my interviewer was in sweats. Certainly a casual feel to the interview, went well.

shntn
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Re: Northwestern Law C/O 2016 (2012-2013 Applicants)

Postby shntn » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:17 am

FlowBro wrote:Interviewed today, my interviewer was in sweats. Certainly a casual feel to the interview, went well.

lol that's awesome. If I ever do alum interviews I will totally be that guy in sweats.




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