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you'rethemannowdawg wrote:Anyone know UCLA's reputation re: scholarship negotiations? I don't anticipate being eligible for any need-based scholarships, but should I still submit the "need access" form before negotiating for scholarships?

I would say yes-- I contacted Dean Schwartz about scholarships and he asked me to complete the needaccess in order to get a new offer to me (which he promptly did after I submitted). HTH.

Good luck!

NYC reception...who's with me?!

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0122232033

Well looky there. Go UCLA.

[/quote]

Incorrect.

But I was never even trying to stir the pot. UCLA is a great school. Simply stating that:

1) USC is throwing around more money this year than UCLA

and

2) USC, in the eyes of employers, is on the rise.

Easy.[/quote]

LMAO! see above

dproduct wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0122232033

Well looky there. Go UCLA.

Ugh those numbers depress me.

Incorrect.

But I was never even trying to stir the pot. UCLA is a great school. Simply stating that:

1) USC is throwing around more money this year than UCLA

and

2) USC, in the eyes of employers, is on the rise.

Easy.

LMAO! see above

I don't mean to be negative, but the difference in NLJ 250 hiring is absolutely negligible. The hatred between the two schools is unneeded, as they are peers, and any difference within the schools(besides PI selection at UCLA) is minimal. I personally would attend which school offers me the most money out of the two if I were in such a great position to have those options.

But the UCLA rebound is pretty good. Last years NLJ wasn't very kind to the Bruins.

It's just tough because I really want to go to UCLA, and the scholarship is really tempting, but seeing the big law employment number at barely 30% is really not instilling confidence in me. I'm deciding between UCLA and Michigan right now and I just feel really discouraged. I thought Michigan was a cut above but they're languishing in the 30s too...ugh I feel doomed.

fallingup wrote:It's just tough because I really want to go to UCLA, and the scholarship is really tempting, but seeing the big law employment number at barely 30% is really not instilling confidence in me. I'm deciding between UCLA and Michigan right now and I just feel really discouraged. I thought Michigan was a cut above but they're languishing in the 30s too...ugh I feel doomed.

Retake? Or maybe just wait until all your decisions are in? Cornell or Duke or NU with money all might be pretty solid options for you.

dproduct wrote:But the UCLA rebound is pretty good. Last years NLJ wasn't very kind to the Bruins.

I take back everything I said. UCLA is now the undisputed king of SoCal!

But seriously, employment statistics aside I still think they need to be more generous with scholarships this cycle. They aren't exactly stingy but USC is making it rain over there and I can't see UCLA maintaining their medians unless they start matching those offers.

fallingup wrote:It's just tough because I really want to go to UCLA, and the scholarship is really tempting, but seeing the big law employment number at barely 30% is really not instilling confidence in me. I'm deciding between UCLA and Michigan right now and I just feel really discouraged. I thought Michigan was a cut above but they're languishing in the 30s too...ugh I feel doomed.

How much is the UCLA scholarship? If debt is under 80-100K, big law is not absolutely necessary although even at that level it is preferable. What are your other choices? If the UCLA scholarship is substantial, I can't see choosing Mich over that, especially for LA. I just don't think 38% placement into firms is worth hundreds of thousands more than 28% placement into firms. But you're right to be nervous about either one if big law is your goal.

BigZuck wrote:

dproduct wrote:But the UCLA rebound is pretty good. Last years NLJ wasn't very kind to the Bruins.

I take back everything I said. UCLA is now the undisputed king of SoCal!

But seriously, employment statistics aside I still think they need to be more generous with scholarships this cycle. They aren't exactly stingy but USC is making it rain over there and I can't see UCLA maintaining their medians unless they start matching those offers.

I mentioned that UCLA would probably finish ahead of USC this year because I saw a couple of firms hire a ton of UCLA grads unlike the previous years. Also USC had a bigger class than it usually does and UCLA had a small and USC clerkships are up to about 6-7%(about 4% usually) and PI is up while UCLA stayed the same.

the theory is still the same. Same money = UCLA.. If you get more money from USC as it seems many are this cycle than USC.

UCLA scholarship would bring COA to 75K. Still waiting on Michigan scholarship. Cornell and NU are not options for me because my partner is starting grad school in the fall as well - we refuse to be long distance and he got into Ann Arbor, Hopkins, and Columbia and is waiting on UCLA, Harvard, and UNC so my options are limited by that. Duke is not a desirable option for us for personal reasons but we would choose it an extreme scenario (ie, if I got a great scholarship but did not from Michigan). I might consider Georgetown if I got a great scholarship but I'd more likely use that to negotiate with Michigan.

I absolutely want big law and nothing else - I have a decent upper 5 figures job right now already, I'm not trying to go to law school to work in the legal equivalent of my current job. Basically I am praying and dreaming that Penn somehow comes through OR that Michigan gives me a workable scholarship OR that my partner gets into Harvard so we are forced to be long distance (because I am not getting into lolHLS and if he gets into his program there, duh he has to go) and I am then free to choose NU with scholarship.

The wrench in all this? I want to practice in CA.

fallingup wrote:UCLA scholarship would bring COA to 75K. Still waiting on Michigan scholarship. Cornell and NU are not options for me because my partner is starting grad school in the fall as well - we refuse to be long distance and he got into Ann Arbor, Hopkins, and Columbia and is waiting on UCLA, Harvard, and UNC so my options are limited by that. Duke is not a desirable option for us for personal reasons but we would choose it an extreme scenario (ie, if I got a great scholarship but did not from Michigan). I might consider Georgetown if I got a great scholarship but I'd more likely use that to negotiate with Michigan.

I absolutely want big law and nothing else - I have a decent upper 5 figures job right now already, I'm not trying to go to law school to work in the legal equivalent of my current job. Basically I am praying and dreaming that Penn somehow comes through OR that Michigan gives me a workable scholarship OR that my partner gets into Harvard so we are forced to be long distance (because I am not getting into lolHLS and if he gets into his program there, duh he has to go) and I am then free to choose NU with scholarship.

The wrench in all this? I want to practice in CA.

if you get a SA job at the end of your first and second year you will get a big chunk of your COA living taken care of.

Just to throw my two cents in the USC/UCLA debate and possibly to help anyone in the same position who won't have the opportunity to visit:

I recently had the chance to visit each school, tour, sit in on classes, meet with current students, etc. I have the same aid offer from both schools, but went into it thinking USC would really have to wow me to make me consider them over UCLA.

Like had been said over and over ITT, it really comes down to personal preferences and what your specific goals are to find the differences that will matter between the two. However, if you're like me and small class sizes and lots of personalized help and attention are important to you, then USC comes out on top. The smaller student body allows offices such as career services and financial aid to give you much more individualized attention than at UCLA.

What really sold it for me, though, was USC's transparency and willingness to put everything on the table. At UCLA when I asked the tough questions about employment statistics there was a general answer from faculty and students that seemed to kind of want to sweep things under the rug. A lot of "Well...you know...it's getting a lot better...don't worry!". At USC they were super upfront, told you what needed to improve and what they were working on doing better at. The professor I had lunch with also basically told me to go to Columbia, and while that just made me hyperventilate more about my law school decision, I really appreciated how open and honest every single person I talked to was. Along those same lines I had multiple students not involved with admissions or the tours coming up to me at USC and wanting to tell me how much they loved the school and why I should attend, something that did not happen at UCLA.

Obviously, this is all very anecdotal and more personal preference. But if you're someone like me who went to an undergad institution where they had to constantly deal with red tape, or found that offices that were supposed to help you made your life harder, USC really went out of their way to show how that does not happen at the law school. And again, what really changed my mind was just the attitude of the students and faculty who didn't feel the need to hide their flaws under false pretenses. Everything, good and bad, was laid out on the table and that really sold me.

Numbers look good. Good to see the LA market as a whole getting a bit (albeit slightly) more healthy.

shntn wrote:NYC reception...who's with me?!

I might go. Think it's worth the 4 hour trip for me?

ssanonymous wrote:

shntn wrote:NYC reception...who's with me?!

I might go. Think it's worth the 4 hour trip for me?

Yes. You'll get to meet me, and that's well worth the trip. Also, I hear Proskauer's offices are quite nice.

shntn wrote:

ssanonymous wrote:

shntn wrote:NYC reception...who's with me?!

I might go. Think it's worth the 4 hour trip for me?

Yes. You'll get to meet me, and that's well worth the trip. Also, I hear Proskauer's offices are quite nice.

haha, valid points. Actually just noticed it's on a Thursday, and that's a no can do for me. Have fun though!

ssanonymous wrote:

shntn wrote:

ssanonymous wrote:

shntn wrote:NYC reception...who's with me?!

I might go. Think it's worth the 4 hour trip for me?

Yes. You'll get to meet me, and that's well worth the trip. Also, I hear Proskauer's offices are quite nice.

haha, valid points. Actually just noticed it's on a Thursday, and that's a no can do for me. Have fun though!

Womp womp.

shntn wrote:

ssanonymous wrote:

shntn wrote:NYC reception...who's with me?!

I might go. Think it's worth the 4 hour trip for me?

Yes. You'll get to meet me, and that's well worth the trip. Also, I hear Proskauer's offices are quite nice.

And about a block from my internship. I'm in!

fallingup wrote:UCLA scholarship would bring COA to 75K. Still waiting on Michigan scholarship. Cornell and NU are not options for me because my partner is starting grad school in the fall as well - we refuse to be long distance and he got into Ann Arbor, Hopkins, and Columbia and is waiting on UCLA, Harvard, and UNC so my options are limited by that. Duke is not a desirable option for us for personal reasons but we would choose it an extreme scenario (ie, if I got a great scholarship but did not from Michigan). I might consider Georgetown if I got a great scholarship but I'd more likely use that to negotiate with Michigan.

I absolutely want big law and nothing else - I have a decent upper 5 figures job right now already, I'm not trying to go to law school to work in the legal equivalent of my current job. Basically I am praying and dreaming that Penn somehow comes through OR that Michigan gives me a workable scholarship OR that my partner gets into Harvard so we are forced to be long distance (because I am not getting into lolHLS and if he gets into his program there, duh he has to go) and I am then free to choose NU with scholarship.

The wrench in all this? I want to practice in CA.

Ugh, very tough. I don't see wanting to practice in CA as (such) a wrench. I see the big honking wrench as leaving an upper five figure job for a less-than-50% chance at a big law job while your school choices are being constrained by your boyfriend. JMHO, but since you are leaving what sounds like a very good job, you should have a higher standard for what kind of employment outcomes you are willing to accept from schools. Why leave a 70K-90K/year job for a 30% chance of making 145-160K/year in big law and a greater than 50% chance you make less than you do now? This is about what you should expect from UCLA or USC.

If you are set on big law, which it sounds like you are, the truth is that none of these schools are good choices, regardless of whether you have a scholarship. Penn would be fine (although for me I would probably still hesitate to leave a job like yours for it), but I am not sure about its placement power in CA. How open would you be to a backup plan of doing a few years in NYC after law school in a firm with CA offices and moving to the CA office? Duke and NU are borderline okay choices with still a lot of risk, but they do place noticeably better than UCLA/USC as a whole....as far as CA goes, I am not sure. I am sorry I am naming all the schools that conflict with your boyfriend's plans, but it seems like his programs are located near the law schools with the worst big law prospects. As I mentioned before, I don't think Michigan's increased big law placement is significant enough to choose it over USC/UCLA although maybe I am not being totally rational in saying Duke/NU at 50% NLJ 250 are better than Mich at 40% NLJ 250. I guess it is that 40% NLJ 250 is only 1/3 better placement than USC/UCLA's 30% while Duke/NU's 50% is 70% better than USC/UCLA's 30%.

Two of your statements about you and your bf seem to conflict. You said first that you guys have decided you won't do long distance but later you said you hope he gets into Harvard so that you can be free to go where you want since HLS is out of the question. To me that sounds like he is insisting on you guys being in the same city and that you would obviously prefer that but are not absolutely wed to it if it makes more sense for your careers to do long distance for school. Is that right? Obviously it is not up to me to dictate your personal life, but given the constraints you already have of absolutely wanting big law in a very difficult legal market, I would question the sense of adding another restriction/complication.

Anyway there is still a lot to unfold this cycle. You don't have to make any decisions now, and you should view whatever scholarship offers you do get from schools as starting off points for negotiation because schools are going to start becoming desperate in the later spring and summer trying to hit their target enrollment and medians with a drastically reduced applicant pool. Generally I think this will cause schools to offer bigger scholarships than in the past (and shrinking classes) as opposed to admitting people they wouldn't have admitted in the past, but there may be some of the latter, particularly with regard to reverse splitters and splitters with super-low GPAs. For you, it sounds like what is more important is not reducing cost but getting accepted to a school that places sufficiently in big law to make it worth your while, so hopefully you'll have some of those unprecedented acceptances in the next few months, perhaps off a WL. Good luck!

zman wrote:if you get a SA job at the end of your first and second year you will get a big chunk of your COA living taken care of.

I'm not sure why you said this, but it is very unusual to get an SA after your 1L year. I don't think anyone should be counting on that. URMs have some shot at a 1L SA, but that's about it (and if you are a URM, you should also look into SEO, which is a good way to both make money your 0L summer and get your foot in the door for a 1L SA). 2L SAs do reduce your COA somewhat, but if your school doesn't place more than 50% into SAs in the first place (like USC/UCLA), I don't think you should be counting on that reduction.

once FAFSA and needaccess are submitted, how quickly are you all hearing back from UCLA with need grants/$? I submitted mine a few weeks ago but have gotten nothing from them yet. I looooved UCLA when I visited and am confused by their lack of love back.

twinkletoes16 wrote:once FAFSA and needaccess are submitted, how quickly are you all hearing back from UCLA with need grants/$? I submitted mine a few weeks ago but have gotten nothing from them yet. I looooved UCLA when I visited and am confused by their lack of love back.

They don't believe you're actually interested with those numbers. Shntn their asses and tell them to show you the money. Btw I wouldn't shoot for need based stuff because I could see those funds potentially "drying up" in future years. Go after merit aid that can't be taken away from you.

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