University of TEXAS c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle)

[jackbauer10]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=200214

shanks

[philosoraptor]

Unless your circumstances are truly out of the ordinary, don't expect to get any significant need-based grants; this is not like college financial aid. Law schools expect you to borrow everything you need and, fairly or unfairly, to pay it back on your big ol' lawyer's salary after three years.

So you're saying that when the UT web site states that 66% of the incoming 2011-2012 received need based grants and loans, they are skewing these statistics?

Pretty much, yeah. I'm sure I'm counted in the 66% and I get less than $1,000 in "need-based" aid a semester. Nice gesture, but for a few years I'm going to be paying several times that in interest alone, every year. I'd be willing to bet I get the standard grant amount for the non-rich.

Otherwise, yeah, the word "loans" makes UT's statement misleading as to the availability of need-based aid.

[BigZuck]

Unless your circumstances are truly out of the ordinary, don't expect to get any significant need-based grants; this is not like college financial aid. Law schools expect you to borrow everything you need and, fairly or unfairly, to pay it back on your big ol' lawyer's salary after three years.

So you're saying that when the UT web site states that 66% of the incoming 2011-2012 received need based grants and loans, they are skewing these statistics?

Pretty much, yeah. I'm sure I'm counted in the 66% and I get less than $1,000 in "need-based" aid a semester. Nice gesture, but for a few years I'm going to be paying several times that in interest alone, every year. I'd be willing to bet I get the standard grant amount for the non-rich.

Otherwise, yeah, the word "loans" makes UT's statement misleading as to the availability of need-based aid.

I'm shocked that 33% of the class pays out of pocket. Who the hell pays cash for law school? The kids of fancy pants attorneys?

[Richie Tenenbaum]

Unless your circumstances are truly out of the ordinary, don't expect to get any significant need-based grants; this is not like college financial aid. Law schools expect you to borrow everything you need and, fairly or unfairly, to pay it back on your big ol' lawyer's salary after three years.

So you're saying that when the UT web site states that 66% of the incoming 2011-2012 received need based grants and loans, they are skewing these statistics?

Pretty much, yeah. I'm sure I'm counted in the 66% and I get less than $1,000 in "need-based" aid a semester. Nice gesture, but for a few years I'm going to be paying several times that in interest alone, every year. I'd be willing to bet I get the standard grant amount for the non-rich.

Otherwise, yeah, the word "loans" makes UT's statement misleading as to the availability of need-based aid.

I'm shocked that 33% of the class pays out of pocket. Who the hell pays cash for law school? The kids of fancy pants attorneys?

Welcome to student loans. See also viewtopic.php?f=10&t=183509

[hobie2515]

So you're saying that when the UT web site states that 66% of the incoming 2011-2012 received need based grants and loans, they are skewing these statistics?

Otherwise, yeah, the word "loans" makes UT's statement misleading as to the availability of need-based aid.

This is what I was getting at. I understand lumping the two terms together under one statistic doesn't paint the whole picture, I guess I just wanted someone else to make the claim (or refute it on some level).

And I completely agree about the 33%, that's stunning to me as well. If I was a parent with those means I think I might wait until my kid has actually graduated before I put up $150,000 cash money.

[helpplease]

This wait is pure torture. UT has always been my #1 choice, submitted 12/01 and have heard nothing. I retook LSAT in Dec and raised my score from a 160 to 165, but with a 3.5x I know I still don't have a good shot. I was hoping my Texas residency would give me some sort of bump though. I also followed up with a Why UT essay early February, and I have no idea if that did any good. Even if it's a rejection, I JUST WANT TO KNOW.

Good news is that I miraculously got a full scholarship at UH and I learned this week that I was held at Northwestern, which is awesome. If i'm in a situation deciding between UH and NU i'll have no idea what to do. A UT acceptance would make things so much easier. Do yall think they'll give decisions to the majority of applicants in March or is it possible that i'll hear in April?

ALSO, it kills me to see people on LSN get waitlisted (or even accepted, although these are much fewer obviously) with scores at or below my numbers. Sighh, I need to just suck it up.

Why is full scholarship at UH a miracle? Their 75th percentile LSAT score is 163, and that school just isn't very good. IMHO, you will not get into Northwestern, and you only have a slight chance at UT. You can get into good schools with your stats. Probably not T20, but 20-35 definitely, and maybe some money if you applied early next cycle, especially if you retake in June and go up a point or 2

UH does relatively well for its ranking. A full ride from there is nothing to sneeze at. I know someone who turned down UT for a full ride at UH (plus free COL from spouse). I think if you are debt averse, it's not an awful choice. FWIW, I have a 172, and only got 15k/yr from UH!

Helpplease, I think you have a decent chance at UT, especially if they end up low on Texas residents. NU is more of a longshot, but you never know.

I would gear up for a retake in June if possible because 2 points would guarantee that UT would take you and 3 would get you money.

Thank you for the encouragement, unlike that previous post Retaking in June isn't in the cards for me due to work and other factors, so I guess i'll just hope for the best. If i'm not so lucky, like you mentioned, UH is an attractive option. The only reservation I have about UH is the uncertainty of what would happen if I don't end up in the top quarter. If i'm paying absolutely nothing for law school (low COL cause I live with parents in Houston) I wouldn't be damned if I didn't get biglaw, but can UH students land a decent job otherwise? Does anybody know where I can research this sort of information?

[hobie2515]

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... &show=sals

According to LST, 43.8% students are making more than $58,000. If you're graduating essentially debt free this doesn't appear to be too bad, all things considered.

They also place more than half of their students in full-time, J.D Required jobs. Obviously not a guarantee but certainly in line with most other schools of their rank.

[BigZuck]

Not retaking June would be an objectively bad decision, especially when there is zero downside and nothing but upside. Take it from me, Shifty, Car, and all the others who kept on taking the stupid thing over and over. Not to mention unless you have a really good job you could probably quit it, focus solely on the LSAT and make more money than you would have at your job.

Last cycle I was looking at sticker at U of H. This cycle I can go to UT for 45K cheaper than U of H would have been. If I take my T20 full ride option I will have made 140K on my retake. Exact same application, the only thing that's different is the LSAT.

Retake!

[helpplease]

Not retaking June would be an objectively bad decision, especially when there is zero downside and nothing but upside. Take it from me, Shifty, Car, and all the others who kept on taking the stupid thing over and over. Not to mention unless you have a really good job you could probably quit it, focus solely on the LSAT and make more money than you would have at your job.

Last cycle I was looking at sticker at U of H. This cycle I can go to UT for 45K cheaper than U of H would have been. If I take my T20 full ride option I will have made 140K on my retake. Exact same application, the only thing that's different is the LSAT.

Retake!

Lol i'm not going to wait for another full cycle. Hats off to you for being able to do that, but I won't. Also I'm in a bit of a different situation than what you were in. Paying full tuition at UH would definitely encourage me to retake. Having a full tuition scholarship on the other hand doesn't exactly motivate me as much to study for that damn test again.

Seriously, it's extremely admirable that some of you all have the will to retake 3 or 4 times, but that is just not an option for me. I will just have to wait and see I guess.

[BigZuck]

Not retaking June would be an objectively bad decision, especially when there is zero downside and nothing but upside. Take it from me, Shifty, Car, and all the others who kept on taking the stupid thing over and over. Not to mention unless you have a really good job you could probably quit it, focus solely on the LSAT and make more money than you would have at your job.

Last cycle I was looking at sticker at U of H. This cycle I can go to UT for 45K cheaper than U of H would have been. If I take my T20 full ride option I will have made 140K on my retake. Exact same application, the only thing that's different is the LSAT.

Retake!

Lol i'm not going to wait for another full cycle. Hats off to you for being able to do that, but I won't. Also I'm in a bit of a different situation than what you were in. Paying full tuition at UH would definitely encourage me to retake. Having a full tuition scholarship on the other hand doesn't exactly motivate me as much to study for that damn test again.

Seriously, it's extremely admirable that some of you all have the will to retake 3 or 4 times, but that is just not an option for me. I will just have to wait and see I guess.

Where did I say anything about you waiting another cycle? I said retake June.

Yeah, if you retake and don't score high enough then take the offer at UH if you want. Not retaking (especially when you already have a pretty good fallback option) would be an unbelievably short-sighted decision.

[timeandspace11]

Not retaking June would be an objectively bad decision, especially when there is zero downside and nothing but upside. Take it from me, Shifty, Car, and all the others who kept on taking the stupid thing over and over. Not to mention unless you have a really good job you could probably quit it, focus solely on the LSAT and make more money than you would have at your job.

Last cycle I was looking at sticker at U of H. This cycle I can go to UT for 45K cheaper than U of H would have been. If I take my T20 full ride option I will have made 140K on my retake. Exact same application, the only thing that's different is the LSAT.

Retake!

Lol i'm not going to wait for another full cycle. Hats off to you for being able to do that, but I won't. Also I'm in a bit of a different situation than what you were in. Paying full tuition at UH would definitely encourage me to retake. Having a full tuition scholarship on the other hand doesn't exactly motivate me as much to study for that damn test again.

Seriously, it's extremely admirable that some of you all have the will to retake 3 or 4 times, but that is just not an option for me. I will just have to wait and see I guess.

I agree with Big Zuck. My last LSAT score was not enough to get into UT. Probably the highest ranked school I could get into would be UF. Now I got a scholarship to attend UT. Is all the extra money over 3 years not worth studying for three more months for the test?

[helpplease]

Not retaking June would be an objectively bad decision, especially when there is zero downside and nothing but upside. Take it from me, Shifty, Car, and all the others who kept on taking the stupid thing over and over. Not to mention unless you have a really good job you could probably quit it, focus solely on the LSAT and make more money than you would have at your job.

Last cycle I was looking at sticker at U of H. This cycle I can go to UT for 45K cheaper than U of H would have been. If I take my T20 full ride option I will have made 140K on my retake. Exact same application, the only thing that's different is the LSAT.

Retake!

Lol i'm not going to wait for another full cycle. Hats off to you for being able to do that, but I won't. Also I'm in a bit of a different situation than what you were in. Paying full tuition at UH would definitely encourage me to retake. Having a full tuition scholarship on the other hand doesn't exactly motivate me as much to study for that damn test again.

Seriously, it's extremely admirable that some of you all have the will to retake 3 or 4 times, but that is just not an option for me. I will just have to wait and see I guess.

I agree with Big Zuck. My last LSAT score was not enough to get into UT. Probably the highest ranked school I could get into would be UF. Now I got a scholarship to attend UT. Is all the extra money over 3 years not worth studying for three more months for the test?

Not retaking June would be an objectively bad decision, especially when there is zero downside and nothing but upside. Take it from me, Shifty, Car, and all the others who kept on taking the stupid thing over and over. Not to mention unless you have a really good job you could probably quit it, focus solely on the LSAT and make more money than you would have at your job.

Last cycle I was looking at sticker at U of H. This cycle I can go to UT for 45K cheaper than U of H would have been. If I take my T20 full ride option I will have made 140K on my retake. Exact same application, the only thing that's different is the LSAT.

Retake!

Lol i'm not going to wait for another full cycle. Hats off to you for being able to do that, but I won't. Also I'm in a bit of a different situation than what you were in. Paying full tuition at UH would definitely encourage me to retake. Having a full tuition scholarship on the other hand doesn't exactly motivate me as much to study for that damn test again.

Seriously, it's extremely admirable that some of you all have the will to retake 3 or 4 times, but that is just not an option for me. I will just have to wait and see I guess.

Where did I say anything about you waiting another cycle? I said retake June.

Yeah, if you retake and don't score high enough then take the offer at UH if you want. Not retaking (especially when you already have a pretty good fallback option) would be an unbelievably short-sighted decision.

The issue other than investing the time is that I really don't think I can improve much. I went from a 160 to a 165 and my highest practice LSAT was a 166. I also went through every prep test already and I've been studying for the test since last summer. I appreciate yalls advice in any case.

[JXander]

I am a tad skeptical about taking the LSAT again for the purpose of getting off the WL and into my dream school... I have a few reasons, and I do appreciate any advice.

1. I suck at standardized tests. I do fine on the PTs (I rarely went below a 165+ until June of last year), but I end up bombing the real thing. I get super nervous and I end up having trouble focusing. Whether the cause of this can be remedied to produce a better score, I am simply worried about doing worse, and ultimately wasting my money, time, and shot at UT.
2. I know many law students and young attorneys. They have told me that admissions typically doesn't take those new scores into account.
2.a. I know they aren't actual admissions staff, and I would prefer to get an answer from them before I make my decision to retake. I have heard it is extremely bad etiquette to ask admissions if taking the test and getting a higher score would be an option.

Thanks for your help... I guess I really just need some solid convincing that studying for the blasted thing again while working full-time is my only option.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

I am a tad skeptical about taking the LSAT again for the purpose of getting off the WL and into my dream school... I have a few reasons, and I do appreciate any advice.

1. I suck at standardized tests. I do fine on the PTs (I rarely went below a 165+ until June of last year), but I end up bombing the real thing. I get super nervous and I end up having trouble focusing. Whether the cause of this can be remedied to produce a better score, I am simply worried about doing worse, and ultimately wasting my money, time, and shot at UT.
2. I know many law students and young attorneys. They have told me that admissions typically doesn't take those new scores into account.
2.a. I know they aren't actual admissions staff, and I would prefer to get an answer from them before I make my decision to retake. I have heard it is extremely bad etiquette to ask admissions if taking the test and getting a higher score would be an option.

Thanks for your help... I guess I really just need some solid convincing that studying for the blasted thing again while working full-time is my only option.

When I was deciding to retake, I emailed UT and they told me that they have a policy of not considering June scores for people on the WL. I still took the June test and scored 8 points higher. I then emailed Vanderbilt and UT the new score and was accepted around 1-2 days later off the WL of both (and both with substantial scholarship offers).

A higher score matters, especially if that puts you over their median or 75th LSAT number. Everyone else can pretend it doesn't, but my experience was that it very much matters, no matter what people tell you.

(Please don't quote this. I think my experience is better to share with all people in this thread (as opposed to just PMing people), but it has outing information that I will probably go back and delete at some point.)

[shifty_eyed]

I know for a fact TLSers were accepted to UT last cycle off the waitlist with June scores. I too have suffered from test anxiety and in fact my first retake resulted in no improvement even though I was much better prepared than my first attempt. But by my second retake, I was much calmer and saw some improvement. I still didn't hit my PT average, but I went in with the mindset that any improvement helps. And when you are below median, every point really really counts

[Chaucer1343]

Is there anything urgent in the admissions pack? I live abroad and it's been almost a month since the pack was sent (and it hasn't arrived).

Not sure how long it takes to get to you overseas, but my acceptance included:
1. Acceptance letter with invite to the Admitted Students Day and some contact info
2. Another letter with additional requirements to be met. (Deposit, letter of intent, official transcript, digital photo, and health paperwork)
3.Some informational brochures on various programs, etc.

Not much I would deem urgent besides maybe the deposit date and the additional requirements stuff. Good luck!

Thanks for the reply. I would guess that the local couriers might have an issue finding the address as it's not in the local language. Overall, the "Letter of Intent" sounds important. Since being accepted, I have just been following the requirements listed on the "current file status" of the FreshLaw page.

Does the "Letter of Intent" have to be completed in conjunction with the paying of the initial deposit? Is this a letter that must be signed and mailed/faxed before a certain date (i.e. the initial deposit deadline)?

[michaelm55]

ED applicant... still nothing.

[romanticegotist]

Report from the Dean's reception for Austin-only admits: it was great! He's a really nice guy, very easy to talk to. The other 0Ls were interesting and funny and also nice as hell. Some of the partners and associates for Haynes and Boone stopped by to say hello; got the feeling that a UT degree carried weight with them, especially in IP.

Also, would a 15k/year offer from Vandy elicit any matching from Texas? It makes the cost essentially equivalent so someone has to budge, no?

[shifty_eyed]

Report from the Dean's reception for Austin-only admits: it was great! He's a really nice guy, very easy to talk to. The other 0Ls were interesting and funny and also nice as hell. Some of the partners and associates for Haynes and Boone stopped by to say hello; got the feeling that a UT degree carried weight with them, especially in IP.

Also, would a 15k/year offer from Vandy elicit any matching from Texas? It makes the cost essentially equivalent so someone has to budge, no?

I have no idea, but Vandy has slightly higher big form and clerkship placement, as well as more national placement so use that!!

[eaper]

So you're saying that when the UT web site states that 66% of the incoming 2011-2012 received need based grants and loans, they are skewing these statistics?

Otherwise, yeah, the word "loans" makes UT's statement misleading as to the availability of need-based aid.

This is what I was getting at. I understand lumping the two terms together under one statistic doesn't paint the whole picture, I guess I just wanted someone else to make the claim (or refute it on some level).

And I completely agree about the 33%, that's stunning to me as well. If I was a parent with those means I think I might wait until my kid has actually graduated before I put up $150,000 cash money.

A lot of people in my class have a SO helping out, worked for a few years, or have GI bill stuff.

[eaper]

Report from the Dean's reception for Austin-only admits: it was great! He's a really nice guy, very easy to talk to. The other 0Ls were interesting and funny and also nice as hell. Some of the partners and associates for Haynes and Boone stopped by to say hello; got the feeling that a UT degree carried weight with them, especially in IP.

Also, would a 15k/year offer from Vandy elicit any matching from Texas? It makes the cost essentially equivalent so someone has to budge, no?

UT matches total cost IIRC. If you have instate from Texas, you'll probably not get anymore, since texas will still be cheaper.

[mg7]

Had a good time at the admitted students day for UT grads yesterday. Everyone was really welcoming and the dean seems like a really nice guy.

[StylinNProfilin]

Had a good time at the admitted students day for UT grads yesterday. Everyone was really welcoming and the dean seems like a really nice guy.

+1 All the panels were definitely super informative, really enjoyed the mock class.

[DA956]

Is there anything urgent in the admissions pack? I live abroad and it's been almost a month since the pack was sent (and it hasn't arrived).

Not sure how long it takes to get to you overseas, but my acceptance included:
1. Acceptance letter with invite to the Admitted Students Day and some contact info
2. Another letter with additional requirements to be met. (Deposit, letter of intent, official transcript, digital photo, and health paperwork)
3.Some informational brochures on various programs, etc.

Not much I would deem urgent besides maybe the deposit date and the additional requirements stuff. Good luck!

Thanks for the reply. I would guess that the local couriers might have an issue finding the address as it's not in the local language. Overall, the "Letter of Intent" sounds important. Since being accepted, I have just been following the requirements listed on the "current file status" of the FreshLaw page.

Does the "Letter of Intent" have to be completed in conjunction with the paying of the initial deposit? Is this a letter that must be signed and mailed/faxed before a certain date (i.e. the initial deposit deadline)?

According to my packet, the letter of intent will be emailed in early summer with instructions regarding how/when to submit it. It takes the place of a second enrollment deposit, and if you do not submit it as per the instructions you forfeit your deposit and they reserve the right to cancel your admission offer. Hope this helps.

[Chaucer1343]

Is there anything urgent in the admissions pack? I live abroad and it's been almost a month since the pack was sent (and it hasn't arrived).

Not sure how long it takes to get to you overseas, but my acceptance included:
1. Acceptance letter with invite to the Admitted Students Day and some contact info
2. Another letter with additional requirements to be met. (Deposit, letter of intent, official transcript, digital photo, and health paperwork)
3.Some informational brochures on various programs, etc.

Not much I would deem urgent besides maybe the deposit date and the additional requirements stuff. Good luck!

Thanks for the reply. I would guess that the local couriers might have an issue finding the address as it's not in the local language. Overall, the "Letter of Intent" sounds important. Since being accepted, I have just been following the requirements listed on the "current file status" of the FreshLaw page.

Does the "Letter of Intent" have to be completed in conjunction with the paying of the initial deposit? Is this a letter that must be signed and mailed/faxed before a certain date (i.e. the initial deposit deadline)?

According to my packet, the letter of intent will be emailed in early summer with instructions regarding how/when to submit it. It takes the place of a second enrollment deposit, and if you do not submit it as per the instructions you forfeit your deposit and they reserve the right to cancel your admission offer. Hope this helps.

Thanks!