Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

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Rahviveh
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:33 pm

double
Last edited by Rahviveh on Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:33 pm

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
helix23 wrote:
alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
helix23 wrote:If you strike out in CA with USC/UCLA, what other options do you have?

Not $250k in debt, at least in her case


? wut

She has a $120k offer from USC already. If she goes to school at Cornell hoping she'll get Cali biglaw and strikes out, she'll have to take NYC biglaw to pay off the debt. If she ends up hating life in NYC, going to Cornell would be a terrible choice.

If she goes to USC and strikes out, her debt burden will at least be low enough and connections good enough that a good life at a smaller firm is a likely outcome.


Her debt with 120k scholarship will be $136k including interest (assuming she's borrowing for COL):

http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... geid=61621

On a 10-year repayment plan, that's $1600/month. That's rough on a small firm 50-60k salary IMO, especially in high COL areas in CA. And this is her most likely outcome at USC - about a 60% chance that she will not get CA biglaw.

TLDR: As things stand USC is the easy choice for someone gunning for CA biglaw, but if Cornell cuts the difference at all they need to be seriously considered.
Last edited by Rahviveh on Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:34 pm

helix23 wrote:
Oh if the discussion was USC@$120k v. Cornell@$0.00, obviously the TCR is USC. I am assuming if she does a good interview, she could probably pull significant money at Cornell. I was arguing from the idea that she could have equivalent schollies at each. With 120k at both, you will still be around $100k debt.



i'm assuming max I would get from Cornell is 120k.


ETA Also FWIW I'm admitted to Berkeley and waiting to hear back on their $ if any.

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helix23
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby helix23 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:37 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
helix23 wrote:
Oh if the discussion was USC@$120k v. Cornell@$0.00, obviously the TCR is USC. I am assuming if she does a good interview, she could probably pull significant money at Cornell. I was arguing from the idea that she could have equivalent schollies at each. With 120k at both, you will still be around $100k debt.



i'm assuming max I would get from Cornell is 120k.


ETA Also FWIW I'm admitted to Berkeley and waiting to hear back on their $ if any.


Yeah, obviously significant money at Boalt makes this convo pointless if you are deadset on CA.

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby shntn » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:37 pm

helix23 wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:
helix23 wrote:
Oh if the discussion was USC@$120k v. Cornell@$0.00, obviously the TCR is USC. I am assuming if she does a good interview, she could probably pull significant money at Cornell. I was arguing from the idea that she could have equivalent schollies at each. With 120k at both, you will still be around $100k debt.



i'm assuming max I would get from Cornell is 120k.


ETA Also FWIW I'm admitted to Berkeley and waiting to hear back on their $ if any.


Yeah, obviously significant money at Boalt makes this convo pointless if you are deadset on CA.

If they rejected me, do you think they'll still match a scholarship?

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:40 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
Her debt with 120k scholarship will be $136k including interest (assuming she's borrowing for COL):

http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... geid=61621

On a 1-year repayment plan, that's $1600/month. That's rough on a small firm 50-60k salary IMO, especially in high COL areas in CA. And this is her most likely outcome at USC - about a 60% chance that she will not get CA biglaw.

TLDR: As things stand USC is the easy choice for someone gunning for CA biglaw, but if Cornell cuts the difference at all they need to be seriously considered.

I'm assuming you mean 10 year repayment plan. I don't necessarily agree. Cornell is not going to open many, if any, doors in California that USC won't, and so while her chances at biglaw of any kind might be higher from Cornell, that doesn't mean it's necessarily the better choice. Also, there are more repayment schemes than just the 10 year one.

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby masked kavana » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:45 pm

Since we are discussing Cornell's California placement..

How do we feel about someone who is PI or bust and hoping to get back to San Francisco?

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helix23
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby helix23 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:45 pm

What I wanna know is whether Cornell redistributes the dean's scholarships to other candidates after a bunch who got it withdraw.

Image

where does all the money go? do they just pocket it?

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Rahviveh
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:46 pm

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
Her debt with 120k scholarship will be $136k including interest (assuming she's borrowing for COL):

http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... geid=61621

On a 1-year repayment plan, that's $1600/month. That's rough on a small firm 50-60k salary IMO, especially in high COL areas in CA. And this is her most likely outcome at USC - about a 60% chance that she will not get CA biglaw.

TLDR: As things stand USC is the easy choice for someone gunning for CA biglaw, but if Cornell cuts the difference at all they need to be seriously considered.

I'm assuming you mean 10 year repayment plan. I don't necessarily agree. Cornell is not going to open many, if any, doors in California that USC won't, and so while her chances at biglaw of any kind might be higher from Cornell, that doesn't mean it's necessarily the better choice. Also, there are more repayment schemes than just the 10 year one.


Right, I don't take issue with that - I agree USC is the right choice since she's CA or bust. But I disagree that you can easily live a good life on a small firm salary while making $1600 repayments every month, especially in CA. And doing longer repayment plans sounds even scarier, but I guess that's an option. .

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:46 pm

helix23 wrote:What I wanna know is whether Cornell redistributes the dean's scholarships to other candidates after a bunch who got it withdraw.

Image

where does all the money go? do they just pocket it?

They probably have a formula to predict yield on those.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:47 pm

helix23 wrote:What I wanna know is whether Cornell redistributes the dean's scholarships to other candidates after a bunch who got it withdraw.

Image

where does all the money go? do they just pocket it?


They pocket it. They anticipate every year that many people will turn it down. I assume that's part of their calculations. People who lose out on the Dean's usually get big awards anyways, but some got as low as $60-75k in the past.

ETA: scooped

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Lavitz » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:50 pm

helix23 wrote:Yeah, obviously significant money at Boalt makes this convo pointless if you are deadset on CA.

Yeah, this is how the entire discussion began. I suggested doing the interview only because she doesn't have an offer from Berkeley yet. So in case she doesn't get anything there, she has another possible option if Cornell throws money at her.

ChampagnePapi wrote:
helix23 wrote:What I wanna know is whether Cornell redistributes the dean's scholarships to other candidates after a bunch who got it withdraw.

Image

where does all the money go? do they just pocket it?


They pocket it. They anticipate every year that many people will turn it down. I assume that's part of their calculations. People who lose out on the Dean's usually get big awards anyways, but some got as low as $60-75k in the past.

Great. Now I'm going to feel bad if I turn it down.

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby helix23 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:52 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
helix23 wrote:What I wanna know is whether Cornell redistributes the dean's scholarships to other candidates after a bunch who got it withdraw.

[img]image[/img]

where does all the money go? do they just pocket it?


They pocket it. They anticipate every year that many people will turn it down. I assume that's part of their calculations. People who lose out on the Dean's usually get big awards anyways, but some got as low as $60-75k in the past.

ETA: scooped


source? I guess it just kinda bothers me that they throw it at many applicants who are obviously looking at better options and will withdraw. If the whole purpose is to raise their medians, I don't see how it's not worth it to aim a little lower and guarantee that the recipient would go (me cough cough).

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:52 pm

Lavitz wrote:
helix23 wrote:Yeah, obviously significant money at Boalt makes this convo pointless if you are deadset on CA.

Yeah, this is how the entire discussion began. I suggested doing the interview only because she doesn't have an offer from Berkeley yet. So in case she doesn't get anything there, she has another possible option if Cornell throws money at her.

ChampagnePapi wrote:
helix23 wrote:What I wanna know is whether Cornell redistributes the dean's scholarships to other candidates after a bunch who got it withdraw.

Image

where does all the money go? do they just pocket it?


They pocket it. They anticipate every year that many people will turn it down. I assume that's part of their calculations. People who lose out on the Dean's usually get big awards anyways, but some got as low as $60-75k in the past.

Great. Now I'm going to feel bad if I turn it down.


Maybe. But check out the profile of applicants who turned down the Dean's in the past. They all had amazing offers. So if you do turn it down, you'd be in great company - historically at least :D

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:54 pm

helix23 wrote:source? I guess it just kinda bothers me that they throw it at many applicants who are obviously looking at better options and will withdraw. If the whole purpose is to raise their medians, I don't see how it's not worth it to aim a little lower and guarantee that the recipient would go (me cough cough).


Don't hate the player, hate the game.

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:54 pm

helix23 wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
helix23 wrote:What I wanna know is whether Cornell redistributes the dean's scholarships to other candidates after a bunch who got it withdraw.

[img]image[/img]

where does all the money go? do they just pocket it?


They pocket it. They anticipate every year that many people will turn it down. I assume that's part of their calculations. People who lose out on the Dean's usually get big awards anyways, but some got as low as $60-75k in the past.

ETA: scooped


source? I guess it just kinda bothers me that they throw it at many applicants who are obviously looking at better options and will withdraw. If the whole purpose is to raise their medians, I don't see how it's not worth it to aim a little lower and guarantee that the recipient would go (me cough cough).


Source is my familiarity with last year's cycle. Of course, things could change.

There's projections involved. Its really a hail mary to snag HYS-secure candidates (and in many cases, Hamilton/Ruby candidates). They figure they'll get one or two and that's good enough, and use the remaining money for people with less-insane numbers.

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helix23
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby helix23 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:57 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
Source is my familiarity with last year's cycle. Of course, things could change.

There's projections involved. Its really a hail mary to snag HYS-secure candidates (and in many cases, Hamilton/Ruby candidates). They figure they'll get one or two and that's good enough, and use the remaining money for people with less-insane numbers.


Oh so they do redistribute it in some fashion?

Another question I have is then why did they invite a lot of obviously not HYS-secure/hamilton/ruby to apply? (me cough cough). YP?

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:59 pm

helix23 wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
Source is my familiarity with last year's cycle. Of course, things could change.

There's projections involved. Its really a hail mary to snag HYS-secure candidates (and in many cases, Hamilton/Ruby candidates). They figure they'll get one or two and that's good enough, and use the remaining money for people with less-insane numbers.


Oh so they do redistribute it in some fashion?

Another question I have is then why did they invite a lot of obviously not HYS-secure/hamilton/ruby to apply? (me cough cough). YP?

Does it matter? Look at what people with your numbers got in the past and that's probably the best indication.

And what do you mean, YP? YP on Dean's scholarship awards?

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:00 pm

helix23 wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
Source is my familiarity with last year's cycle. Of course, things could change.

There's projections involved. Its really a hail mary to snag HYS-secure candidates (and in many cases, Hamilton/Ruby candidates). They figure they'll get one or two and that's good enough, and use the remaining money for people with less-insane numbers.


Oh so they do redistribute it in some fashion?

Another question I have is then why did they invite a lot of obviously not HYS-secure/hamilton/ruby to apply? (me cough cough). YP?


Well what I meant earlier is that no more Dean's are awarded after the initial rollout. But the money can be used for smaller scholarships. That's speculation though. It's possible things will be very different this year with that big financial gift they received. Last cycle someone tried to withdraw from Chicago and got a Ruby - maybe we'll see the same thing from Cornell :)

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby pedestrian » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:01 pm

Lavitz wrote:
helix23 wrote:Yeah, obviously significant money at Boalt makes this convo pointless if you are deadset on CA.

Yeah, this is how the entire discussion began. I suggested doing the interview only because she doesn't have an offer from Berkeley yet. So in case she doesn't get anything there, she has another possible option if Cornell throws money at her.

ChampagnePapi wrote:
helix23 wrote:What I wanna know is whether Cornell redistributes the dean's scholarships to other candidates after a bunch who got it withdraw.

Image

where does all the money go? do they just pocket it?


They pocket it. They anticipate every year that many people will turn it down. I assume that's part of their calculations. People who lose out on the Dean's usually get big awards anyways, but some got as low as $60-75k in the past.

Great. Now I'm going to feel bad if I turn it down.


Turning down the money will still free it up for others in the same sense that withdrawing will let in someone on the waitlist. In both cases the schools calculate a yield rate. If they are wrong, they start pulling from the waitlist or throwing around extra $ to keep up their medians.

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helix23
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby helix23 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:02 pm

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
helix23 wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
Source is my familiarity with last year's cycle. Of course, things could change.

There's projections involved. Its really a hail mary to snag HYS-secure candidates (and in many cases, Hamilton/Ruby candidates). They figure they'll get one or two and that's good enough, and use the remaining money for people with less-insane numbers.


Oh so they do redistribute it in some fashion?

Another question I have is then why did they invite a lot of obviously not HYS-secure/hamilton/ruby to apply? (me cough cough). YP?

Does it matter? Look at what people with your numbers got in the past and that's probably the best indication.

And what do you mean, YP? YP on Dean's scholarship awards?


IT MATTERS A GREAT DEAL

I guess by YP I meant using the invitation to apply/write an essay as a way to see who's seriously considering the school and award other scholarship money based on that.

I don't know. Why do you think they invited non-HYS secure people to apply for it knowing that they won't get it?

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:03 pm

helix23 wrote:
I don't know. Why do you think they invited non-HYS secure people to apply for it knowing that they won't get it?

Because one of you people may have actually been interesting and accomplished enough to merit it. Doesn't happen often, but I'm sure it does.

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby helix23 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:05 pm

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
helix23 wrote:
I don't know. Why do you think they invited non-HYS secure people to apply for it knowing that they won't get it?

Because one of you people may have actually been interesting and accomplished enough to merit it. Doesn't happen often, but I'm sure it does.


what do you mean, "YOU people" ?!

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Lavitz » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:05 pm

helix23 wrote:source? I guess it just kinda bothers me that they throw it at many applicants who are obviously looking at better options and will withdraw. If the whole purpose is to raise their medians, I don't see how it's not worth it to aim a little lower and guarantee that the recipient would go (me cough cough).

Honestly, I think this is part of the reason they gave it to me. Because I waited so long to submit my essay, they may have thought, "Wow, this late in the cycle and he still doesn't have any better options? This means there's a good chance he'd take the Dean's if we offered it."

Or maybe they just loved my killer essay 8)

ChampagnePapi wrote:Last cycle someone tried to withdraw from Chicago and got a Ruby

So what you're saying is: I should try to withdraw from the Chicago waitlist. 8)

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:07 pm

helix23 wrote:
alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
helix23 wrote:
I don't know. Why do you think they invited non-HYS secure people to apply for it knowing that they won't get it?

Because one of you people may have actually been interesting and accomplished enough to merit it. Doesn't happen often, but I'm sure it does.


what do you mean, "YOU people" ?!

You people who get into great schools like Cornell.




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