Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

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Dmini7
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Dmini7 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:25 pm

BigZuck wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:i'm like 30/70 right now on interviewing vs. just withdrawing. i've been to cornell and like it, but i feel cornell even with a full ride is riskier than USC/UCLA for those of us who are chasing CA BigLaw. I guess that's something I could ask in my interview, but it would clearly be biased.


Wut

I would take a full ride at Cornell over anything at UCLA/USC outside of the Rothman if I wanted to work in CA. I would also take a full ride at Cornell over anything at Berkeley less than at least a half ride if I wanted to work in CA. Dat BIG DEBT.

Also withdrawing because you can't be bothered to sit through a Skype interview is lunacy to me. I mean, why even waste the 20 bucks and apply if you're that disinterested in the school? If its an on campus interview that you have to do then that's different but in that case I would decline citing lack of funds and work commitment but I wouldn't withdraw.


+1. Give them 20minutes of your time and you may be pleasantly surprised with your outcome. I asked about Cornell's ability to get jobs in CA in the ask a law student forum and they seemed to believe it was just as strong as USC/UCLA. With that said, I personally have decided Cornell is worth 30k more in debt to me than USC/UCLA. But everyone is different and has to determine where there threshold is. (With that said, a focus in SoCal only where UsC/UcLa hold a lot of prestige, Cornell's Ivy League prestige doesn't really offer any extra value)

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helix23
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby helix23 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:26 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
helix23 wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:i've been to cornell and like it, but i feel cornell even with a full ride is riskier than USC/UCLA for those of us who are chasing CA BigLaw.


I'm not sure that's true. Cornell will give you a better chance at a clerkship. Also, at least with Cornell you can get some portability on West Coast and East Coast meaning you could get NYC biglaw if you strike out in CA. Can't say the same for USC/UCLA.



I've never been to NYC, don't have the TLS hivemind of BIGLAW OR BUST. Almost positive I would rather be small/midlaw in CA than biglaw in NYC.

Like I said, CA-wise, if I have $$ already at M/N, is it worth it do go for C?


If anything, if you get a big schollie at Cornell (full ride or close to it) you could try to use it to squeeze a little more cash out of USC/UCLA.

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ph5354a
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby ph5354a » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:27 pm

I think that while we are try to be completely rational about this major life-changing decision, it's also partially emotional as well. Even though rationally, it might make sense for a NYC-big law person to pick $$$ at Cornell over nyu, nyu is my dream school and it'll be really hard to turn it down. If someone isn't feeling a particular school for whatever reason, there's no reason to do an interview if they already have other options.

Good luck twinkle with whatever you decide!

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:29 pm

Thanks for the advice guys. Again, not turning my nose up at Cornell in the LEAST (went there for a brief period, love the place to death), just concerned about my personal goals/career/life desires and whether or not it would be worth it at this point. I'm likely going to interview and really (politely) grill them about all this.

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dproduct
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby dproduct » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:31 pm

shntn wrote:
dproduct wrote:
shntn wrote:
dproduct wrote: USC/UCLA generally give you CA BigLaw or bust, and that is fucking terrifying. (Assuming you're big law or bust type in general).

Hence my hesitation.


I thought you weren't biglaw or bust?

I'm not. But between that and bust, I'd take BigLaw. The pretty limited geographic reach of the west coast schools is what scares me, though.


It's a legit fear, especially without ties. :|

Big Dog
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Big Dog » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:42 pm

Cornell gives you NYC BigLaw and CA BigLaw.


While perhaps true, twinkle doesn't want NYC.

According to ABA reports, 20 grads of Cornell returned to California last year. (How many and what kind of ties, i.e., Daddy's firm?)

In contrast, USC had 141 grads employed in Calif.

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sinfiery
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby sinfiery » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:46 pm

Also asked to interview via email.

Wondering if I would take a full ride at Cornell over 75k at NYC and I think my personal desire to want to live in NYC on a students schedule leaves me saying no.

Will give it a few days though.

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sinfiery
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby sinfiery » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:48 pm

Big Dog wrote:
Cornell gives you NYC BigLaw and CA BigLaw.


While perhaps true, twinkle doesn't want NYC.

According to ABA reports, 20 grads of Cornell returned to California last year. (How many and what kind of ties, i.e., Daddy's firm?)

In contrast, USC had 141 grads employed in Calif.

That really tells you nothing as self-selection is far too great of a variable to get any viable viewpoint of the job market from that data.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:51 pm

sinfiery wrote:Also asked to interview via email.

Wondering if I would take a full ride at Cornell over 75k at NYC and I think my personal desire to want to live in NYC on a students schedule leaves me saying no.

Will give it a few days though.




Do we have any sort of proof that an interview request leads to a full ride? This seems like a big leap.

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Big Dog » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:52 pm

^^of course, but several posters are suggesting Cornell for its NYC options, which is not relevant to twinkle. So, the question becomes what is better for SoCal, USC/UCLA or Big Red? (Personally, I'd lean toward the Trojan Family.) Others, may be looking through prestige-colored and portability glasses.
Last edited by Big Dog on Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Lavitz » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:53 pm

sinfiery wrote:Also asked to interview via email.

Wondering if I would take a full ride at Cornell over 75k at NYC and I think my personal desire to want to live in NYC on a students schedule leaves me saying no.

Will give it a few days though.

Err, I don't think you're getting a full-ride at this point. Not impossible, but again it would mean that they're establishing a new deadline for dean's scholly essays for people admitted post-February 10th, and I've yet to see evidence of that. It's likely that the most you'd get is $120K and iirc the tuition itself is $5K more per year at Cornell so you'd be paying roughly $25K per year in tuition at NYU vs. $15K at Cornell. The total difference in tuition would only be $30K. Granted, the cost of living would probably be higher in NYC, but you wouldn't need a car and you wouldn't have difficulty finding a subletter (if you even left the city for the summer) like you would at Cornell. So...

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sinfiery
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby sinfiery » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:55 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
sinfiery wrote:Also asked to interview via email.

Wondering if I would take a full ride at Cornell over 75k at NYC and I think my personal desire to want to live in NYC on a students schedule leaves me saying no.

Will give it a few days though.




Do we have any sort of proof that an interview request leads to a full ride? This seems like a big leap.

Absolutely not, but i'd bet it is possible and if that would leave you at Cornell, you should absolutely interview.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:57 pm

Big Dog wrote:^^of course, but several posters are suggesting Cornell for its NYC options, which is not relevant to twinkle. So, the question becomes what is better for SoCal, USC/UCLA or Big Red? (Personally, I'd lean toward the Trojan Family.) Others, may be looking through prestige-colored glasses.




I think some posters are suggesting I take a good long look in the mirror and see if I can't visit NYC maybe and see if I could make that work for possible biglaw in case Cornell-->CA doesn't work out.

having been raised in CA, USC is extremely prestigious for me and most Californians.

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:08 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:having been raised in CA, USC is extremely prestigious for me and most Californians.

You've been here long enough that lay prestige doesn't matter.

So you either don't know if you like New York, or you definitely don't like New York? Either way, Cornell doesn't sound like a great option even if it's the same price as UCLA/USC for you.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:10 pm

.
Last edited by twinkletoes16 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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helix23
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby helix23 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:12 pm

Big Dog wrote:^^of course, but several posters are suggesting Cornell for its NYC options, which is not relevant to twinkle. So, the question becomes what is better for SoCal, USC/UCLA or Big Red? (Personally, I'd lean toward the Trojan Family.) Others, may be looking through prestige-colored and portability glasses.


Wanting your JD to have an element of portability is a far more legitimate criterion than prestige. Don't group the two together.

I suggested Cornell for its NYC options because this whole discussion is about risk. Having the ability to find a job in two markets is less risky than limiting yourself to one. At least from the information I've gathered, it is totally doable to get CA out of Cornell. If you don't, at least you have a shot at NYC. If you strike out in CA with USC/UCLA, what other options do you have?

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby dproduct » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:13 pm

helix23 wrote:
Big Dog wrote:^^of course, but several posters are suggesting Cornell for its NYC options, which is not relevant to twinkle. So, the question becomes what is better for SoCal, USC/UCLA or Big Red? (Personally, I'd lean toward the Trojan Family.) Others, may be looking through prestige-colored and portability glasses.


Wanting your JD to have an element of portability is a far more legitimate criterion than prestige. Don't group the two together.

I suggested Cornell for its NYC options because this whole discussion is about risk. Having the ability to find a job in two markets is less risky than limiting yourself to one. At least from the information I've gathered, it is totally doable to get CA out of Cornell. If you don't, at least you have a shot at NYC. If you strike out in CA with USC/UCLA, what other options do you have?


This?

--ImageRemoved--

shntn
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby shntn » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:13 pm

helix23 wrote:
Big Dog wrote:^^of course, but several posters are suggesting Cornell for its NYC options, which is not relevant to twinkle. So, the question becomes what is better for SoCal, USC/UCLA or Big Red? (Personally, I'd lean toward the Trojan Family.) Others, may be looking through prestige-colored and portability glasses.


Wanting your JD to have an element of portability is a far more legitimate criterion than prestige. Don't group the two together.

I suggested Cornell for its NYC options because this whole discussion is about risk. Having the ability to find a job in two markets is less risky than limiting yourself to one. At least from the information I've gathered, it is totally doable to get CA out of Cornell. If you don't, at least you have a shot at NYC. If you strike out in CA with USC/UCLA, what other options do you have?

Could always go to Hollywood and make it (or at least a few casting directors) big!
Last edited by shntn on Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:14 pm

helix23 wrote:If you strike out in CA with USC/UCLA, what other options do you have?

Not $250k in debt, at least in her case

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helix23
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby helix23 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:19 pm

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
helix23 wrote:If you strike out in CA with USC/UCLA, what other options do you have?

Not $250k in debt, at least in her case


? wut

Big Dog
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Big Dog » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:19 pm

I suggested Cornell for its NYC options because this whole discussion is about risk. Having the ability to find a job in two markets is less risky than limiting yourself to one.


Fair enough. But how much better is Cornell, really, for someone who doesn't want NY?

Big Law (Go-To Law Schools):

Big Red = 38% (includes NY 4:1)

USC = 33% (mostly California Big Law)

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:24 pm

helix23 wrote:
alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
helix23 wrote:If you strike out in CA with USC/UCLA, what other options do you have?

Not $250k in debt, at least in her case


? wut

She has a $120k offer from USC already. If she goes to school at Cornell hoping she'll get Cali biglaw and strikes out, she'll have to take NYC biglaw to pay off the debt. If she ends up hating life in NYC, going to Cornell would be a terrible choice.

If she goes to USC and strikes out, her debt burden will at least be low enough and connections good enough that a good life at a smaller firm is a likely outcome.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:27 pm

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
helix23 wrote:
alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
helix23 wrote:If you strike out in CA with USC/UCLA, what other options do you have?

Not $250k in debt, at least in her case


? wut

She has a $120k offer from USC already. If she goes to school at Cornell hoping she'll get Cali biglaw and strikes out, she'll have to take NYC biglaw to pay off the debt. If she ends up hating life in NYC, going to Cornell would be a terrible choice.

If she goes to USC and strikes out, her debt burden will at least be low enough and connections good enough that a good life at a smaller firm is a likely outcome.



I think this is what I'm angling at. I'd rather be homeless in San Diego on the beach than very possibly hating NYC and being stuck there.

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helix23
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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby helix23 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:30 pm

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
helix23 wrote:
alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
helix23 wrote:If you strike out in CA with USC/UCLA, what other options do you have?

Not $250k in debt, at least in her case


? wut

She has a $120k offer from USC already. If she goes to school at Cornell hoping she'll get Cali biglaw and strikes out, she'll have to take NYC biglaw to pay off the debt. If she ends up hating life in NYC, going to Cornell would be a terrible choice.

If she goes to USC and strikes out, her debt burden will at least be low enough and connections good enough that a good life at a smaller firm is a likely outcome.


Oh if the discussion was USC@$120k v. Cornell@$0.00, obviously the TCR is USC. I am assuming if she does a good interview, she could probably pull significant money at Cornell. I was arguing from the idea that she could have equivalent schollies at each. With 120k at both, you will still be around $100k debt.

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Re: Cornell c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby mambar » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:33 pm

helix23 wrote:Oh if the discussion was USC@$120k v. Cornell@$0.00, obviously the TCR is USC. I am assuming if she does a good interview, she could probably pull significant money at Cornell. I was arguing from the idea that she could have equivalent schollies at each. With 120k at both, you will still be around $100k debt.

Probably true with CoL differences, but doesn't Cornell seem more open to negotiating?




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